Remove building on quetz platform

[Colbeh]

18 hours ago, Duffried said:

There's ORP on Offical and additonal ORP mod for unoffical servers.

For Xbox one/primitive plus?

[Duffried]

29 minutes ago, Colbeh said:

For Xbox one/primitive plus?

*shrug* Don't know or care, not my platform.

[Midnight_]

I saw the twitter convo with CED about removing all platform saddles "to make it more primitive". and his reply of "yes".  So many flaws in that line of thinking.

this is primite PLUS. Not primitive MINUS. Changes should be made to make the base game more prime+ not more primitive. without platform saddles the titan is untaimable (right? I have not taimed one so I only now what I have read). regaurdless if that is true or not platform saddles are no more advanvce than redwood tree platforms. And I have one word that cements tree platforms in p+ .... Ewok.

As far as how to combat htose who exploit glitches to make quetzels with foundations where theybshould not they are the scum of the gaming universe and should be banned. Report them do not join them. they force devs to fix the exploits insted of having more time to crank out all the awesome updates/dlc that they are so awesome at.

Further this discusion seems 100% focused on pvp. I play pve and there is no balance issue of any kind with platform saddles. If they are foolishly removed from pvp so be it leave them on pve.

[TheSpirit]

1 hour ago, Midnight_ said:

I saw the twitter convo with CED about removing all platform saddles "to make it more primitive". and his reply of "yes".  So many flaws in that line of thinking.

this is primite PLUS. Not primitive MINUS. Changes should be made to make the base game more prime+ not more primitive. without platform saddles the titan is untaimable (right? I have not taimed one so I only now what I have read). regaurdless if that is true or not platform saddles are no more advanvce than redwood tree platforms. And I have one word that cements tree platforms in p+ .... Ewok.

As far as how to combat htose who exploit glitches to make quetzels with foundations where theybshould not they are the scum of the gaming universe and should be banned. Report them do not join them. they force devs to fix the exploits insted of having more time to crank out all the awesome updates/dlc that they are so awesome at.

Further this discusion seems 100% focused on pvp. I play pve and there is no balance issue of any kind with platform saddles. If they are foolishly removed from pvp so be it leave them on pve.

Following that logic, why can't we build metal doors. We can build a platform that is 50 times the size, but not a door, wall, foundation or ceiling, or cannon, etc.
Is platform less advanced than that...

Don't be mistaken, they do not force devs to do nothing, as nothing sufficient is being done. They do force everybody else to use those same exploits to survive, though.

[Midnight_]

As the resident troll it is clear you follow no logic. My posts logic does not imply anything like you suggested. And as the resident thread troll this is the only and last time I acknowledge your existance. It is clear your posts here are for no other purpose than inflame the issue.

[TheSpirit]

1 minute ago, Midnight_ said:

As the resident troll it is clear you follow no logic. My pksts logic does not imply anything like you suggested. And as the resident thread troll this is the only and last time I acknowledge your existance. It is clear your posts here are for no other purpose than inflame the issue.

In the last post you called majority of this community scums, now I am a troll. I think you are projecting, but whatever works for ya.

[Askadiel]

8 hours ago, TheSpirit said:

Following that logic, why can't we build metal doors. We can build a platform that is 50 times the size, but not a door, wall, foundation or ceiling, or cannon, etc.
Is platform less advanced than that...

Don't be mistaken, they do not force devs to do nothing, as nothing sufficient is being done. They do force everybody else to use those same exploits to survive, though.

Oh, Greenhouse should be removed too then and the Guns in any Way, the Flak Armor too, all Saddles because there are small Metal Parts included. Only a small hint, its much easier to build an hughe Part of Metal as Saddle, as an Ballistic Part, like a Gun, or Crossbow.

 

But the Discussion is really Funny for me, something can be used to exploit, so it has to be taken out of the Game. There are Ways to prevent that in the Serverconfig, if those Guys choose the wrong Seerver, i cant understand, why they complain.

[TheSpirit]

22 minutes ago, Askadiel said:

Oh, Greenhouse should be removed too then and the Guns in any Way, the Flak Armor too, all Saddles because there are small Metal Parts included. Only a small hint, its much easier to build an hughe Part of Metal as Saddle, as an Ballistic Part, like a Gun, or Crossbow.

 

But the Discussion is really Funny for me, something can be used to exploit, so it has to be taken out of the Game. There are Ways to prevent that in the Serverconfig, if those Guys choose the wrong Seerver, i cant understand, why they complain.

Well I would argue that something of that immense of a size woud be harder to make then armor. But it was my point that it's not wise to look at things that should and should't be in prim+ solely by their complexity or advancement.  It is just a bad argument.
I do not make a case that saddle should be removed, just pointing a flaw in the argument given. 
But who cares, I'm a troll appearantly and a resident at that. 

[Hoseman143]

That's it - I have the complete solution to this entire issue...ready?

Remove ALL resources from the game - everything.  Triple the number of caves already on the map (so ppl can get out of the weather) and let them FIST FIGHT their way out of trouble and to see who gets to live in the caves.

Of course, when you level up  you have to decide on your own where to put your points in for advancement...so it's just a matter of time before someone makes a post asking for character levelling to be removed as well - because since I spent every point I had in Stamina and Melee Damage, and you decided to spend it in Speed and Weight, I have now exploited the game because you can't beat me when our paths cross...because the Dev's NEVER intended the player base to spend ALL of their points in the "fighting" stats.

Your QQ is showing again...

[TheSpirit]

7 hours ago, Hoseman143 said:

That's it - I have the complete solution to this entire issue...ready?

Remove ALL resources from the game - everything.  Triple the number of caves already on the map (so ppl can get out of the weather) and let them FIST FIGHT their way out of trouble and to see who gets to live in the caves.

Of course, when you level up  you have to decide on your own where to put your points in for advancement...so it's just a matter of time before someone makes a post asking for character levelling to be removed as well - because since I spent every point I had in Stamina and Melee Damage, and you decided to spend it in Speed and Weight, I have now exploited the game because you can't beat me when our paths cross...because the Dev's NEVER intended the player base to spend ALL of their points in the "fighting" stats.

Your QQ is showing again...

Wow, so you will not even recognize that you were wrong in the last post when you misrepresented my point of view to be "remove the platform" instead what it is (look in the title of the thread). 

Slippery slope fallacies don't impress me. You don't like my arguments? I can accept that, there is a discussion on similar subject in vanilla General Discussion, where you can find arguments which are clearer and much better than mine. 

[icycold2367]

Just to fuel the fire a little bit. This game is designed to punish those in single man tribes, because their is no such thing as a single man tribe you are a lone survivor. A tribe implies 2 or more people. I play with a tribe of 25 people and boulders are nothing to make, we grinded out 2000 in 3 hours. This game is designed to be played with multiple people working together helping each other out and eventually controlling or being a "alpha" tier tribe is the endgame. If you don't like a function because its harder for you to get then think back at this game is very, very political and designed for more than one person to work together. The platform saddles are not the problem its the people playing the game exploiting a glitch, this is no different than any other game. Remember back in COD world at war when you could glitch under the castle map and shoot people from below. It's a glitch on a alpha stage game currently being worked on. They will determine how to fix it eventually. Just remember you have just as much of a chance to have a large tribe as them and just as much chance to build a platform like theirs.

[TheSpirit]

33 minutes ago, icycold2367 said:

Just to fuel the fire a little bit. This game is designed to punish those in single man tribes, because their is no such thing as a single man tribe you are a lone survivor. A tribe implies 2 or more people. I play with a tribe of 25 people and boulders are nothing to make, we grinded out 2000 in 3 hours. This game is designed to be played with multiple people working together helping each other out and eventually controlling or being a "alpha" tier tribe is the endgame. If you don't like a function because its harder for you to get then think back at this game is very, very political and designed for more than one person to work together. The platform saddles are not the problem its the people playing the game exploiting a glitch, this is no different than any other game. Remember back in COD world at war when you could glitch under the castle map and shoot people from below. It's a glitch on a alpha stage game currently being worked on. They will determine how to fix it eventually. Just remember you have just as much of a chance to have a large tribe as them and just as much chance to build a platform like theirs.

I play solo. But I agree to everything you stated. It would be nice if you could stand your ground as solo player, but I'm alright if they never balance around solo play. 
What I would argue is that game would be much more fun if it wouldn't be only "kill before you are killed", as I posted earlier I find it fun to make hard to raid structures and I would love to "turtle up" in my base and try to defend it, but there is so many times more offensive options than there are defensive ones, it's ridiculous. I love PvP, but I really hate being the aggressor and I don't think this has to be a game where you only CoS. Well this is my two cents on that, but kinda irrelevant to tthe topic.

On the topic of gliches. I only ask for bandage fix, until they figure out the main fix. It's really sad to play on official server and feel like you are playing single player. And I know for sure this is why people left, because I was allianced with half of the ex-players. This fix (not letting build structures on platform) would remove 2-3 exploidable glitches for the price of a little inconveniece. And before PvE people start shouting and throwing tomatoes, no I don't think this should be done to PvE and I believe devs are capable doing this only on PvP servers.

[icycold2367]

Build your base to defend from the air if that's the problem. Interior plants with a extensive intricate piping system. Use a true triple layer with this. A example is a box in a box in a box with the layers honeycombed. Your base needs to be a fortress more than a castle. You can also use one pillar to hid as many plants as possible. Your exterior defenses are for LAND dinosaur your interiors are for AIR dinosaur. Think smarter each section you establish should be done as a whole as well to avoid scouts knowing your interior defenses.

[TheSpirit]

Just now, icycold2367 said:

Build your base to defend from the air if that's the problem. Interior plants with a extensive intricate piping system. Use a true triple layer with this. A example is a box in a box in a box with the layers honeycombed. Your base needs to be a fortress more than a castle. You can also use one pillar to hid as many plants as possible. Your exterior defenses are for LAND dinosaur your interiors are for AIR dinosaur. Think smarter each section you establish should be done as a whole as well to avoid scouts knowing your interior defenses.

Yeah yeah I know it. But it's such a darg to make armored plant x inside. 
And plant x is nothing in the case of quetz, so doesn't really matter if there are some inside when they break the ceilings, the inside ones will get drained the same as outside. That is kinda my biggest probem with the platfrom.
Box in a box in terms of walls is useless really as brick can't be demolished by basicaly anything and nobody would ever try. You only need too hide foundations and make ceilings as hard do get to as possible.
And there are no scouts  there is nobody, so it's kinda boring to build high grade fortress when you won't be able to test it out.

[icycold2367]

It's hard to explain online really but with brick your foundations are weak concrete can be destroyed by a obsidian pick. Place plants 2 high with a backup water source inside. Make your base incredibly costly to enter and attackers will either give up or you log in a 500k plant takes an hour to drain so 6 layers of plants alone rakes 6 hours to drain. Mix that in with trying to break 5 layers of concrete 50k health ceilings and you got a great def. Brick/concrete is incredibly cheap to make really. Another option is pillars as well. If the air fails tunneling will ensue. My tribe and I have raided a lot so we have learned a lot about def. 2 gates costs about 75 boulders so same for ceilings. Stay hidden and gather mats for now or do what I do and use plant a to your advantage. Find a weak spot tunnel in and pike the quetzals to death. You have an advantage now there's not much left to lose.

[TheSpirit]

40 minutes ago, icycold2367 said:

It's hard to explain online really but with brick your foundations are weak concrete can be destroyed by a obsidian pick. Place plants 2 high with a backup water source inside. Make your base incredibly costly to enter and attackers will either give up or you log in a 500k plant takes an hour to drain so 6 layers of plants alone rakes 6 hours to drain. Mix that in with trying to break 5 layers of concrete 50k health ceilings and you got a great def. Brick/concrete is incredibly cheap to make really. Another option is pillars as well. If the air fails tunneling will ensue. My tribe and I have raided a lot so we have learned a lot about def. 2 gates costs about 75 boulders so same for ceilings. Stay hidden and gather mats for now or do what I do and use plant a to your advantage. Find a weak spot tunnel in and pike the quetzals to death. You have an advantage now there's not much left to lose.

Well yeah you have to protect the foundations and ceiling. For foundations it's trying to get good spot so you can lower your protective walls to the ground from the ceiling without having to build a foundation. And for ceiling you just make ceilings like 8 layers thick. And the ceiling would still be a weak point, because you can just catapult the same spot and ceiling break pretty quick.

I think we should not be doing tips for building in this thread. 
Yeah I realise that it's possible to defend your base I said it before. I think it's too excessive, though. Just because people got one tame you have to make your base so much larger and more expensive. And most players with less then 1k h in the game don't even know how to, officials are dying, it's not the only cause, but this abuse drives off people who can accept bugs and late/no updates and the nonexistent balance. These are the people you need in EA to know what needs fixing, especially in P+ where the work has just started.

[icycold2367]

It's not tips it's arguments being squashed. It's a survival game I like the semi realism. It's like real war they have a nuke and you don't so how do you counter that weapon. You switch from straight confrontation to guerrilla warfare. Strike him before he strikes you. Box quetzals are extremely glitchy so just climb into it and pike it. These kind of threads are what did the original giga/quetzals nerf which took 2 highly efficient war dinosaur and made them far weaker. The bottom line is defenders need to build smarter to SURVIVE a survival game not go on the forums and ask for everything to be nerfed. Pretty soon we'll be hearing that dodo is to strong it needs weakened. People come here that got wiped and say this is how it happened I don't like it, now nerf it so I (who had the same chance to make friends and allies) the lone survivor can fight a 25 man tribe. I mean this with respect but after a while it wears on me that people want prim like tech where one man with 10k rockets can rule a server. All peace is earned by preparing for war. Strike them and kill the quetzals.

[TheSpirit]

8 minutes ago, icycold2367 said:

It's not tips it's arguments being squashed. It's a survival game I like the semi realism. It's like real war they have a nuke and you don't so how do you counter that weapon. You switch from straight confrontation to guerrilla warfare. Strike him before he strikes you. Box quetzals are extremely glitchy so just climb into it and pike it. These kind of threads are what did the original giga/quetzals nerf which took 2 highly efficient war dinosaur and made them far weaker. The bottom line is defenders need to build smarter to SURVIVE a survival game not go on the forums and ask for everything to be nerfed. Pretty soon we'll be hearing that dodo is to strong it needs weakened. People come here that got wiped and say this is how it happened I don't like it, now nerf it so I (who had the same chance to make friends and allies) the lone survivor can fight a 25 man tribe. I mean this with respect but after a while it wears on me that people want prim like tech where one man with 10k rockets can rule a server. All peace is earned by preparing for war. Strike them and kill the quetzals.

Well what arguments did you squashed? My main point was that it's too easy to drain plant x with boxed quetz. It's balance issue, not gameplay, not realism. I argue that draining 100 plants at a time is too much. 
And I already argued with the point "strike him before he strikes you". This leaves servers dead, like the one I'm playing in now. 
They were op dinos and the fact that you can still use them for raiding quite well means they are not weak.

This game gives too much advantage for agressors. And I think this is where you will not agree. But that is ok. We can agree to disagree. 

I think you misunderstood me and think there are still people with quetzes playing. First of all I did kill a quetz that someone who sitll plays had. Second, the ones that terrorized the server are gone, because there is nobody to terrorize anymore, server is dead, I have no desire to waste time to get into a base in the volcano with 800 plant x to kill a quetz of a tribe that doesn't play. So, I have no problem with quetzes, I don't get rekt by them. But there is noone to play with, that sucks and I believe if not for the boxed quetzes that would not be the case.

PS. don't use slippery slope argument, it holds no ground unless you can see the future.

[icycold2367]

I agree with the lack of def bur instead of posting to remove a interesting feature (if they put in vehicles for example a tank or arumored vehicle would do the same) why not request to have new things for bases. The chain Bola was a great start for example. Now let's take that a step forward and all structures on a platform are demolished that hit the ground on a chain bola'd quetzal. Thus would give defenders a def against them beyond making a fortress (which still should be done). My point is your fighting a lot of people you should expect to get wrecked. I've killed box quetzals attacking my base before. Have someone drop you in their quetzal. But once again that requires a tribe. I won't touch the offline raiding though since that's a whole other argument. Also I still believe the plants (which were nerfed due to these kinds of threads) shouldn't consume fert per shot. If they didn't then this wouldn't have become a problem.

[icycold2367]

Oh and on the gigas they are no better than a Rex mine has 28k hp and 450 melee meaning it can literally 1v1 a Dino 2x it's size.

[TheSpirit]

1 minute ago, icycold2367 said:

I agree with the lack of def bur instead of posting to remove a interesting feature (if they put in vehicles for example a tank or arumored vehicle would do the same) why not request to have new things for bases. The chain Bola was a great start for example. Now let's take that a step forward and all structures on a platform are demolished that hit the ground on a chain bola'd quetzal. Thus would give defenders a def against them beyond making a fortress (which still should be done). My point is your fighting a lot of people you should expect to get wrecked. I've killed box quetzals attacking my base before. Have someone drop you in their quetzal. But once again that requires a tribe. I won't touch the offline raiding though since that's a whole other argument. Also I still believe the plants (which were nerfed due to these kinds of threads) shouldn't consume fert per shot. If they didn't then this wouldn't have become a problem.

Well afk raiding becomes nothing with boxed quetz. And we should admit that that happens most of the time as it's really easy to see when people are not online. So that is the main point for me. Plant x defend afk bases, you add boxed quetz, and they don't. 
I really did not want to try defend the point that you can't fight a quetz raid, but I felt pressured into it. You can fight, and if the raiders are really bad, you can win.
As for the plants, no fertilizer per shot and there would be unraidable bases. I would not want that.

 

 

5 minutes ago, icycold2367 said:

Oh and on the gigas they are no better than a Rex mine has 28k hp and 450 melee meaning it can literally 1v1 a Dino 2x it's size.

Except it damages stone and therefore can destroy anything in P+ except brick gateframe. So...

[icycold2367]

I like I said raided a lot before that update as well and a paracetamol team and quetzals team were the go to for plants. Raids of 300+ plants also became 8 hour raids resulting in more chance to log on. As for the giga they do the same damage at 150 perfect tame as a obsidian pickaxe. So your better off the pick. The box quetzals first appearance I remember is after that plant nerf that people fought oh so hard for. Raiders hated plants they made "unraidable" (3k plus boulder) bases and defenders suffered by the evolution of the box quetzal. No matter how they change it I can still drain plants utilizing wall/gates/cliffs easily and waste as many as possible. No matter what there's still going to be an exploit in any base.

[TheSpirit]

20 minutes ago, icycold2367 said:

I like I said raided a lot before that update as well and a paracetamol team and quetzals team were the go to for plants. Raids of 300+ plants also became 8 hour raids resulting in more chance to log on. As for the giga they do the same damage at 150 perfect tame as a obsidian pickaxe. So your better off the pick. The box quetzals first appearance I remember is after that plant nerf that people fought oh so hard for. Raiders hated plants they made "unraidable" (3k plus boulder) bases and defenders suffered by the evolution of the box quetzal. No matter how they change it I can still drain plants utilizing wall/gates/cliffs easily and waste as many as possible. No matter what there's still going to be an exploit in any base.

Well I really have nothing against draining. I just think that draining as much as you can be in range of is kinda stupid which quetz lets you do, but I utilizing terrain and structures is whole other thing. It just makes smart base design that much rewarding. 
Did not know that about the Giga. That seems very weird, But IMO obsidian pick is kinda too strong now.

So to add some balance they could either roll back the plant x changes, or fix the building on quetz. But yes, for big bases this is what I want, 8 hour raids with people rotating, I would like to see 4-5 "aplha"s with huge bases in every official, fighting for dominance, but I guess that is just a dream.

[Hoseman143]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 1:18 AM, TheSpirit said:

Wow, so you will not even recognize that you were wrong in the last post when you misrepresented my point of view to be "remove the platform" instead what it is (look in the title of the thread). 

Slippery slope fallacies don't impress me. You don't like my arguments? I can accept that, there is a discussion on similar subject in vanilla General Discussion, where you can find arguments which are clearer and much better than mine. 

First off, that was sarcasm - look it up.  Secondly, I wasn't wrong.  You have screamed to anyone that will listen (and have continued to do so since you posted the above comment) that Box Quetzals are an exploit, and because of that, they should be removed from the game...but only PvP - PvE can keep their stuff.

What you REFUSE to even acknowledge is what EVERYONE here has been telling you.

First - you CAN beat this, you just have to do the work.  The previous poster - @Icycold2367 - Has even spelled out for you exactly how to do this.  Your response?  (SIC) "I don't want to have to do that kind of work.  I want to play by myself, be able to put up 4 walls and a ceiling with a plant inside and defend it from the world - even when I'm offline."

Second - as almost EVERYONE in this thread has tried to explain to you - which we have learned from PREVIOUS NERFS - is that WC will not just nerf this in PvP - they will remove it from the entire game, which DOES screw the PvE player base...Not because they CAN'T do it...but because it is EASIER to do it.  The Dev's at WC have shown that they handle problems with the "path of least resistance" method. 

[WC Dev Meeting Conversation]

"Can we fix it?"

"Sure - but it's gonna take over 100 man hours to make it happen if we want to repair the exploit."

"What about removing it from just the PvP servers?"

"It can be done, but that's going to take almost as long."

"Hmmm - what other options do we have?"

"Well, I can remove it completely from the game in about 10 minutes."

"Sounds great, make it happen.  OK, the next issue is..."

You drone on and on and on in this thread about how you are the only one that is right, and everyone else is wrong, and nobody is listening to what you are saying.  Well, take your own damn advise - LISTEN TO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS TELLING YOU.  Regardless of your feelings...if 20 people are in a thread, and there are 18 of them telling you not only that you are wrong...but WHY you are wrong - and you refuse to listen to them...then you just /fail at pretty much everything.  Get  off your damn soap box, listen to the rest of your fellow players, and either do the work or leave your server.

Either way, let it go - THIS IS A BAD IDEA NO MATTER HOW THE HELL YOU TRY TO SPIN IT.

And for the record, YOU are the only one that is on the slippery slope here.  We are ALL telling you why this is a bad idea, and you keep insisting that you are right.  The only slippery slope is when you start QQ about an aspect of the game, and it runs the risk of destroying something for the ENTIRE player base.  You claim we should "look to the future" - fine, I will...and I am - I would highly suggest you stop being so closed-minded about this issue, and do the same.

[TheSpirit]

14 hours ago, Hoseman143 said:

First off, that was sarcasm - look it up.  Secondly, I wasn't wrong.  You have screamed to anyone that will listen (and have continued to do so since you posted the above comment) that Box Quetzals are an exploit, and because of that, they should be removed from the game...but only PvP - PvE can keep their stuff.

Is see that I am somehow unclear in anything I say to you, because everyone else including  @Icycold2367  has agreed that this is a problem in at least offline raiding. So I' gonna copy someone else's opinion, which is going on in the vanilla forum, where there are people who actually raid with quetz and see it as huge problem in how easy it is. And in vanilla there is loads of better tools to fight back, remember that, even though it was never my point that you can't fight back... but ok.

"How have you posted so prolifically on this thread without seeing a single argument for why quetzal platforms have to go?  Here they all are again:

1) They trivialize resource gathering by by-passing weight mechanics

2) You can build them so they can soak bullets without taking damage

3) By virtue of 1) they make 90% of dinosaurs utterly pointless to tame.  Infact the only dinos used at all (in PvP) are dodos for pteradon kibble, pteradons, quetzals, gigas (but plenty of tribes don't bother), maybe rexes for quetzal kibble, ankys for mining, mammoths for wood (only by virtue of 1), otherwise you would only use beavers), frogs for CP and beavers for their carrying abilities, portable smithy, and wood gathering.  You don't even use dodics because your anky always has more stone than you need anyway.

4) The platform saddle makes them immune to being picked

5) Even without the platform saddle they are still too strong.  They can carry off any dino smaller than a Rex (except allosaurs), they have huge health pools, which scale almost as well as the tankiest dinosaurs,

6) They can easily withdraw from combat, force-feed and return to the fight.  They are probably the best equipped dinosaur to do this as they can easily carry around a ton of meat for clickers.

7) They provide a massive progression slingshot to the tribe that's already ahead of the game.  This is always unavoidable in games with progression, but it's best to try and minimize it.

So I think there's a bit more there than 'just because'......... I play PVP in a successful tribe who utilizes quetzals.  Because of them the game has never been more boring than what it is right now.

Here's an analogy for what the defence of quetzal platforms sounds like to me:

Imagine if in a game like CoD and Battlefield the devs gave everyone a new weapon called the magic button.  This button, when pressed kills everybody else in the game and you win.  Some players say that they don't like it because they like the variety of weapons that were usable before but now there's no point to them.  Other players just tell them that they need to get good, or that the button is balanced because everyone can use it, or lastly, there are ways to combat the magic button, like just being awesome with the traditional weapons and killing everyone on the map before they get a chance to use the button.  Somehow, just not liking the game now because of the magic button is an invalid argument even though games are usually over in 1-2 seconds.

Quetzals platforms are that magic button." by Smash

Now on the PvP-PvE thing. If they can't implement it as only PvP (which they can) they shouldn't try to implement any changes at all, if it screws PvE people. Is that alright with you?

You used slippery slope argument again. Google it. 

I think I'm totally in my right to post here and exchange views with people that want to make a point. Not mentioning some non-argumentative people this makes quite good conversations. You don't want to see any of this unfollow the thread and don't read it anymore. You think WC will fix something because one guy is going on about it in the forums? I don't think so. So as I told you don't comment and I won't comment back, and this thread will die as you want it to, because you are scared poopless you lose your beloved glitches.