Getting old

[Joebl0w13]

Just now, Trev186 said:

To be fair you gotta add the a few sections in the middle where the devs just cease development and call the game complete despite loads of issues not being addressed (ROK)...

 

Sadly there is a lot of truth to that.

[JaHakk]

1 minute ago, Riddell1984 said:

If a man puts a bike up for sale on the Internet and it's broken and not all built. And it's sold as broken and unbuilt.  It doesn't matter how long it's been up for sale it's still broken and unbuilt. Same principle if he has three million identical condition bikes.

You cant ring him up after a year and say I want one of your bikes but come on you've had it for a year have you not mended it yet. 

apples and oranges

[Joebl0w13]

3 minutes ago, JaHakk said:

When you pay money for a game that is in beta you should keep what you got. I have been a part of beta testing and never paid a dime for it. If I am paying money for a game it is no longer in beta but fully released meaning I keep what I got. So that little thing up there about "Progress of a PC Video Game" does not apply

You paid for a game in alpha. The game hasn't even (technically, everyone can argue this one out) entered beta yet.

And what has been taken away from you that you paid for? All you have received is more content and more mechanics than you paid for.

When the game goes gold you still won't have to pay another dime to play it so what are you yammering about?

[Riddell1984]

You agreed to pay money for an alpha game. Not beta. not released. You paying money for a game has no bearing on its condition. If your not happy with its condition you shouldn't of purchased an ALPHA game. It is very clear what condition it's in when you buy it. 

If you are fed up with company's releasing alpha / beta games for money or for free and never releasing them finished. Stop fueling the fire and buying/ downloading them for free. Wait and see if they ever finish it before buying.

This will be a risk though. I have no doubt that the price of ark could possibly double when it is finished.

 

[Riddell1984]

Try not storing all your resources in one place.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

[Trev186]

One thing I will say is your Dinos vanishing is not technically a bug....The developers implemented this purposefully to punish players who used to hide dinos underneath resources and other areas of the map.

 

They implemented this change and have stuck by it and it is unfortunate because now the vast majority of the dinos being deleted this way are dinos that were not being hidden but for whatever reason were left where a rock or something respawned. My first case was I built a dino gate over a rock spawn I had broken...logged back in one day to find a rock respawned inside of my gate protruding half out one side and half out the other and it had deleted my tames that were underneath.

 

There are many posts in the bug forums on this.....I recommend you go bump Great Ape's thread.

 

Players have suggested alternative ways of dealing with this but devs have remained silent. I believe they think admitting this was a poor design choice may generate more salt or something from all those who lost hours of hard work prior.

This is one major bug fix I personally believe they should address though as it affects core aspects of the game and I know first hand drives players to outright quit.

 

In regards to your fabricator vanishing thats a little odd and I would warrant someone prolly destroyed it since tribe logs do not note that info....

 

 

 

 

 

[Airthrow]

59 minutes ago, JaHakk said:

If it is early access then why not fix problems before releasing huge updates to it. Early access is to get the bugs fixed before releasing major content updates. Get the mechanics fixed first then bring on the major updates. It seems they are putting the cart before the horse here. I am not buying into the early access with the major updates being released before the basics is fixed.

The problem is you break something when you add something. A good example is the recent Redwoods patch; releasing that broke a whole lot more of the world which they then had to go back and refix.

In a way having this as early access is making more work for themselves, since they are still designing the game and adding to it, but they also have to clean it enough for us to play while they do. Like living in a house while the construction workers are building the walls around you. 

The "basics" are also constantly changing, like breeding. Phase 3 (whenever that comes) will rewrite the basics of breeding (from a numbers sense) as will the eventual nests and dens for some animals. Direwolves have been "fixed" but there's no doubt in my mind that when they get their alpha mechanic like the allosaurus, something will break horribly. 

The devs are watching what we do, and what breaks when we do it. If you want the game to be the best it can be, you can tell them what you see and how you did it. When I was a tester we used a system called PAL, problem, action, location, and now as a player, I use that system with them. "The quetzal flies away (problem) when the player leaves it dismounted while in the air (action) anywhere on the map (location).

They're fixing as they make new things, so be patient, and be helpful if you can. Their jobs would be a LOT easier if most of the threads here weren't "this game is broken! 0/10 stars!"

[Airthrow]

31 minutes ago, Trev186 said:

One thing I will say is your Dinos vanishing is not technically a bug....The developers implemented this purposefully to punish players who used to hide dinos underneath resources and other areas of the map.

 

They implemented this change and have stuck by it and it is unfortunate because now the vast majority of the dinos being deleted this way are dinos that were not being hidden but for whatever reason were left where a rock or something respawned. My first case was I built a dino gate over a rock spawn I had broken...logged back in one day to find a rock respawned inside of my gate protruding half out one side and half out the other and it had deleted my tames that were underneath.

 

There are many posts in the bug forums on this.....I recommend you go bump Great Ape's thread.

 

Players have suggested alternative ways of dealing with this but devs have remained silent. I believe they think admitting this was a poor design choice may generate more salt or something from all those who lost hours of hard work prior.

This is one major bug fix I personally believe they should address though as it affects core aspects of the game and I know first hand drives players to outright quit.

 

In regards to your fabricator vanishing thats a little odd and I would warrant someone prolly destroyed it since tribe logs do not note that info....

 

 

 

 

 

While I agree with you (and great apes thread, big fan, I really wish they'd see it) the design choice of punishing people for "hiding" in geometry vs. animals unlucky enough to be standing where a resource spawns in are a bug and a design choice simultaneously. As to how to fix it, I don't know a solution but I can only imagine they're working on it. 

An explanation of "it's easy, just have it push them to the side!" sounds simple from our standpoint, but code doesn't work that way. It's going to be an extensive, painful fix and we're going to continue losing dinosaurs until it happens, but the game isn't live, and we just have to pray that things don't randomly respawn in our bases until then. 

I get scared every time I log in after an update, thats for sure

[Joebl0w13]

1 minute ago, Airthrow said:

While I agree with you (and great apes thread, big fan, I really wish they'd see it) the design choice of punishing people for "hiding" in geometry vs. animals unlucky enough to be standing where a resource spawns in are a bug and a design choice simultaneously. As to how to fix it, I don't know a solution but I can only imagine they're working on it. 

An explanation of "it's easy, just have it push them to the side!" sounds simple from our standpoint, but code doesn't work that way. It's going to be an extensive, painful fix and we're going to continue losing dinosaurs until it happens, but the game isn't live, and we just have to pray that things don't randomly respawn in our bases until then. 

I get scared every time I log in after an update, thats for sure

Yup the whole "push it aside" issue is right now allowing people to push their buddies into a base by crowding the geometry of the models.

I never understood why they just don't allow a resource to respawn if a model is standing there. Done.

[Trev186]

2 minutes ago, Airthrow said:

While I agree with you (and great apes thread, big fan, I really wish they'd see it) the design choice of punishing people for "hiding" in geometry vs. animals unlucky enough to be standing where a resource spawns in are a bug and a design choice simultaneously. As to how to fix it, I don't know a solution but I can only imagine they're working on it. 

An explanation of "it's easy, just have it push them to the side!" sounds simple from our standpoint, but code doesn't work that way. It's going to be an extensive, painful fix and we're going to continue losing dinosaurs until it happens, but the game isn't live, and we just have to pray that things don't randomly respawn in our bases until then. 

I get scared every time I log in after an update, thats for sure

Personally I think a dino should just generate the same check that a foundation does...and block a resource from respawning that plus changing the order of render distance for when dinos fall through floors (which I noticed they have been making some fixes regarding this) would go a long way.

 

 

[Airthrow]

55 minutes ago, Trev186 said:

Personally I think a dino should just generate the same check that a foundation does...and block a resource from respawning that plus changing the order of render distance for when dinos fall through floors (which I noticed they have been making some fixes regarding this) would go a long way.

 

 

Agreed, but then PVE people could just park their animals on metal nodes and laugh. Really, trolls just ruin everything they touch

[Joebl0w13]

5 minutes ago, Airthrow said:

Agreed, but then PVE people could just park their animals on metal nodes and laugh. Really, trolls just ruin everything they touch

Ya but pve peeps can kinda do this right now anyways. But nobody does, it costs too much (the dino) and if you use your dino to block somebody else's stuff WC just logs in and deletes your dino. Pretty fun to watch actually.

[Trev186]

12 minutes ago, Airthrow said:

Agreed, but then PVE people could just park their animals on metal nodes and laugh. Really, trolls just ruin everything they touch

Nothing stopping you from kiting dinos to said nodes.

 

A bronto is very effective at pissing off netural tames....Griefers would have to keep em on passive and even then the dinos would like die either way.

 

Unless they are going to invest in fully walling the thing off with metal and such with said dinos inside which at that point theyd just rather build pillars.

[Airthrow]

2 hours ago, Trev186 said:

Nothing stopping you from kiting dinos to said nodes.

 

A bronto is very effective at pissing off netural tames....Griefers would have to keep em on passive and even then the dinos would like die either way.

 

Unless they are going to invest in fully walling the thing off with metal and such with said dinos inside which at that point theyd just rather build pillars.

well since the pillar spam is being nerfed I would imagine (if this came to pass) that it would be a good "replacement". Although I wasn't thinking brontos, that's just evil! want to be a sausage? if you can get one up into the volcano (grats on that dedication) then all the metal goes away lol

[Trev186]

1 hour ago, Airthrow said:

well since the pillar spam is being nerfed I would imagine (if this came to pass) that it would be a good "replacement". Although I wasn't thinking brontos, that's just evil! want to be a sausage? if you can get one up into the volcano (grats on that dedication) then all the metal goes away lol

I more of meant u can easily kite a wild dino on pve to the nodes and have it fight the neutral tamed dinos there to get em to move off the nodes or be killed.

 

Much easier to find ways to kill people's tames on pve as opposed to destroying their bases....

 

kiting a giga is an easy thing to do and they seem to spawn in abundance plus they are fast

[Faivon]

Should be glad they let us play the game now even as beta-tester rather than waiting 3-4 years to get the full release and still complain if there are still bugs. 

So yeah, that's all we do now. Play the game as they develop the game and be thankful that we don't have to pay another dime when they release the full game. The full game might cost more than Early Access tho? CMIIW

[Astroneer]

 

9 hours ago, Riddell1984 said:

If a man puts a bike up for sale on the Internet and it's broken and not all built. And it's sold as broken and unbuilt.  It doesn't matter how long it's been up for sale it's still broken and unbuilt. Same principle if he has three million identical condition bikes.

You cant ring him up after a year and say I want one of your bikes but come on you've had it for a year have you not mended it yet. 

As much as I do not want to take a side, your argument is flawed. The man selling the bike does not face the responsibility of fixing the bike, something that an Early Access developer would ( With respect to a product ). The man is simply selling the bike for what it is ( Spare parts ), not what he could get it to be. Despite the fact that support is not guaranteed under the terms, the developers still are presented with a task. Under those conditions, you would certainly expect some extensive progress after a year ( Which has been made in the case of ARK ).

[Riddell1984]

24 minutes ago, Astroneer said:

 

As much as I do not want to take a side, your argument is flawed. The man selling the bike does not face the responsibility of fixing the bike, something that an Early Access developer would ( With respect to a product ). The man is simply selling the bike for what it is ( Spare parts ), not what he could get it to be. Despite the fact that support is not guaranteed under the terms, the developers still are presented with a task. Under those conditions, you would certainly expect some extensive progress after a year ( Which has been made in the case of ARK ).

If you read the disclaimer on purchase it is clear that the game may not get finished or change from the state it was in at purchase. Therefore my argument stands.

You all agreed to it on purchase so you don't have the right to moan about it now. What you can do is give constructive criticism and hope that the development continue improving the game and don't get fed up with all the moaners and abandon the game all together. You still wouldn't have a leg to stand on then.

[Astroneer]

24 minutes ago, Riddell1984 said:

If you read the disclaimer on purchase it is clear that the game may not get finished or change from the state it was in at purchase. Therefore my argument stands.

You all agreed to it on purchase so you don't have the right to moan about it now. What you can do is give constructive criticism and hope that the development continue improving the game and don't get fed up with all the moaners and abandon the game all together. You still wouldn't have a leg to stand on then.

Exactly as I mentioned. Your comparison, at most, was out of context. You can't compare a product under ongoing development (Variable 1) to an unfinished product marketed as so (Variable 2), even if support is not guaranteed for the product under development (Variable 1). In other words, they are two different markets. The game was marketed as Early Access meaning ongoing support, while the bicycle was marketed as an unfinished product, so evidently you wouldn't expect support on the bicycle because that would be ridiculous. Despite clearly stating that I wasn't taking a side and only criticizing your groundless argument, you still go at it.

[NukeZX]

10 hours ago, JaHakk said:

Fully released games add content and mechanics constantly. I think a full year is more than enough time to get the basics right

Say that to the Star Citizen devs.  

[Joebl0w13]

3 hours ago, Trev186 said:

I more of meant u can easily kite a wild dino on pve to the nodes and have it fight the neutral tamed dinos there to get em to move off the nodes or be killed.

 

Much easier to find ways to kill people's tames on pve as opposed to destroying their bases....

 

kiting a giga is an easy thing to do and they seem to spawn in abundance plus they are fast

You can kite dinos to other players in PVE. But you can also get banned for doing it. 

[Trev186]

3 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

You can kite dinos to other players in PVE. But you can also get banned for doing it. 

I was addressing the issue of trolls switching from pillars to dinos to block resource nodes if in pve if there was a change to make tamed dinos act like foundations and block resource nodes from spawning was all...which in that case id hope wildcard would not ban people but...all these issues are why i admin my own server

[Riddell1984]

2 hours ago, Astroneer said:

Exactly as I mentioned. Your comparison, at most, was out of context. You can't compare a product under ongoing development (Variable 1) to an unfinished product marketed as so (Variable 2), even if support is not guaranteed for the product under development (Variable 1). In other words, they are two different markets. The game was marketed as Early Access meaning ongoing support, while the bicycle was marketed as an unfinished product, so evidently you wouldn't expect support on the bicycle because that would be ridiculous. Despite clearly stating that I wasn't taking a side and only criticizing your groundless argument, you still go at it.

You must of read a different disclaimer to me. Mine clearly stated early access and that I was buying it in the condition it was in at sale. It also went on to say that the game might not ever move on from that condition. Therefore it was up to the developers whether or not to continue making the game and that they had no responsibility to do so.

If the legal matters that went on with wildcard and another developer had got out of control we may have found that ark had to stop being developed for the foreseeable future. 

FACT. You would not have been able to do anything about that. It was a very clearly written and pretty bulletproof disclaimer written by people that do this as a job and can't afford to make mistakes. If your argument had any substance to it, wildcard would have to listen to you. Fact is they dont. 

This is just a community forum and your side of the argument is being heavily contested by people that don't have any invested invested interested in the game. If you tried to argue with the game developers legal team you would literally get to ld to go away and stop wasting there time. You must know this because your not wasting their time your venting on a forum which you know is pointless and won't achieve a thing.