PuffyPony

On 9/2/2023 at 2:25 PM, RaephClark said:

But if you think demeaning others for posting the same creature every single vote is right, then you are certainly mistaken on that part.

As it happens, pointing out that an idea is rehashed and that allowing unlimited real estate on a Top 10 slot promotes creative stagnancy is not demeaning. It's a legitimate criticism, and if you, a creator, are unwilling to field that criticism, then that's not a problem I can help you with. There are a lot of demeaning responses to Maevia out there, a few on the forums and a lot more on Reddit, but dismissing a legitimate criticism by lumping it in with those does not suggest an intent for genuine discussion.

On 9/2/2023 at 2:25 PM, RaephClark said:

I don't know if you have or haven't ever created something like a creature submission... It would not only ruin the dynamic of what the vote is about, but also shatter nearly everyone's chances of winning (and perhaps discourage others from not voting anymore).

Addressing this whole block together...

Let me foremost state that in no sense do I discourage artists from "showing off." Just because the rules might limit how many times a given option might make it into the Top 10 does not prevent showing off--if anything, it enhances the probability that more people gain the opportunity to receive a higher level of scrutiny and, thereby, appreciation for what they did by preventing entrenched, repeat ideas from consuming spots that might otherwise go to other creators. You're speaking principally from the perspective of someone like Sovira who has an established creature who has shown up in votes; I'm speaking from the perspective of the vote as a whole as well as artists who haven't gotten that opportunity. And sure, many people are happy to have their creatures received on the forums just to show off and never see a vote--but that's the point of the submissions.

You want people to feel encouraged to produce things? A good start would be ensuring they feel like they stand a realistic chance to have that recognized, not just on the forums but community wide, and you do that by making sure specific ideas don't gum up the vote & draw the limelight too exclusively. If you for a second believe that Sovira hasn't received recognition and praise for their idea, then I'm not sure what to tell you. They've received oodles. Their creature was rated in the top 10 of hundreds of ideas twice, likely will be a third time, and would've a fourth time had Delran left it in the Center vote. They should feel proud, but that doesn't give them unlimited real estate to show up on votes and deny others an opportunity to receive that same recognition. Sure, I'm sure it feels bad that they lost, but that's life. You can either wallow in it, or get over it, like the Cheetah's creator has by making new ideas which right now are seeing high levels of praise.

As it happens, this isn't the jungle, nor is it "survival of the fittest." The rules have been cultivated from the get-go, and adding a few more pretty generous rules to add structure to the vote to ensure maximum diversity of ideas receive apprecaition is not "ruining the dynamic of the vote," nor does it "shatter people's chances of winning"--it actively promotes the possibility for most people to make it into a vote. Keep in mind 95%+ of people never get into a vote once, let alone twice, let alone three times. This helps them.

On 9/2/2023 at 2:25 PM, RaephClark said:

Just because something isn't insanely useful for PVP, it doesn't mean it's worthless.

Just because it isn't what you like, it doesn't mean it isn't admirable for others. 

Just because something is scary looking for others who are afraid of them, it doesn't mean it can't be something for others to enjoy.

Just because something has been "beaten to death", it doesn't mean you can't lift them up.

And just because someone is trying their best to win, doesn't mean they should be bullied for putting an effort.

I could go on with my rant here, but I want to continue with my work as well. So I'll end it in summary:

This comes dangerously close to "don't criticize artists because we should just be positive." As it happens, these are all legitimate criticisms, and if it's how others feel, then they should be able to voice those opinions. That's not "bullying" someone for trying to win. That's doing what the community is supposed to do at this stage of the vote and provide honest feedback about what they want to see. And if that feedback is, "I don't think this is good in PvP," or "Spiders scare me," or "I don't think this fits this map," or "This idea has been overdone and I don't want to see it anymore," that is all legitimate feedback. If you, an artist, are incapable of receiving that feedback, that is on you to figure out.

On 9/2/2023 at 2:25 PM, RaephClark said:

Please be kind to others. We are all adults here. I want to see a community where everyone can admire people's work without destructive judgement or toxic comments. I know I have no authority anywhere, but I at least like to stand up for my friends and rivals who are doing their best to have fun in this vote. If you really want to see something new or fresh, throw a creature suggestion out there yourself. And you know something? I'll give it a vote anyway because I think everyone has some goodness deep down inside them. And maybe you'll understand why we continue to post the creatures we love. Keep this in mind the next time you decide to comment on someone's post or say something about people's efforts. I hope you have a good day

I desire the same thing--which is why I advocate for limiting Top 10 chances. That's not personal against Sovira/Maevia--I've been consistent on this matter for other creatures, too, such as the Gorgonops and Cheetah. The difference is that the Gorgonops's creator didn't try to clap back. The Cheetah's creator didn't say "how dare you, I can do what I want you toxic person!" They received the feedback. The Gorgonops's creator, before anyone even said anything, acknowledged the issue and said they're going to sunset after this vote. The Cheetah's creator submitted new ideas. They behaved maturely. While you personally may not have, I can't say the same for Maevia's supporters who behaved toxically & demeaning toward Yi Qi & its creator after it beat Maevia for the Ab vote. If you want to see people support a positive community, start there--and I'll be fair, it's much harder to stand up to your friends than your foes.

I hope Sovira/Delran come up with new ideas. I was thrilled to see the Cheetah's creator come up with a very unique take on Sauroposeidon. And thankfully, Delran did make the right decision to retire Maevia after this vote. That was a good call that promotes creativity & diversity of ideas in the community. I'm glad that they had the maturity to make that decision, even if it was to their own personal detriment. That's what helps cultivate a positive community, when people can read the room and step aside to let others have their shot.

1 hour ago, Sovira said:

Actually, If this was the case, and it was like this, then barely any of the creatures submitted would actually stand a chance in the first place. There are many submissions who've only had a remote chance due to the following build-up that they have, and each vote it is more than fair for people to submit their creatures repeatedly, nobody is forcing you to vote for them. If others do well enough and receive enough attention, they can just as easily push past these submissions that have been repeated more than once, it's up to the people who vote for them in the end. I don't feel the need to shatter the integrity of what Maevia first started with in appearance in order to make it new and exciting for you, as that could potentially ruin its reputation entirely for those that originally adored it and wanted it in the game. This can be seen with what happened to the poor Bastion Beetle and a few others as well over the events. This is why when I do make changes they are not exaggerated or extreme, I care about what those wanted to begin with and will continue to heavily consider this alone

This is both incorrect as shown by past votes, and ignores the actual issue caused by zealously resubmitting a near identical copy of a creature again and again. It’s also just a weird statement because the vote structure itself guarantees that 10 creatures will get a chance, every time. 

Of the AS:A vote winners, only one creature was a Top 10 resubmit that got a following: Gigantoraptor, which came in a close second on the previous vote. All of the others were first time Top 10 entries, so clearly “some creatures needing a following” to win is not really true unless that creature is a repeat losing option that has to be continuously rammed in.

What creating a following does is guarantee a creature’s spot in the top 10, particularly because these resubmits tend to A) be posted early, and B) be looked for by a core group of ardent fans not interested in other options. It does not guarantee victory—again, Bastion Beetle, Gorgonops, etc. As a consequence, other, newer, potentially *better* ideas get passed over while these recycled ideas get the front page. Thus, creatures become entrenched and crowd votes up. This is exactly what we saw happen with Bastion Beetle, Giant Bison, and Gorgonops—and I even voted for Gorgonops, but seeing it in the vote for a third time is a little tiresome. Those creatures, along with Maevia, are lessons that Wildcard needs to be putting in some kind of limits.

and I recognize that sometimes, you get unlucky and are pitted against something that’s just amazing. Can’t help that. That’s why I advocate for allowing one more try with the same creature, and not just ending it then and there

1 hour ago, Sovira said:

I'm sorry but you don't get to decide what people do and don't want, if they voted for it, and I honestly don't think Wildcard would want to stop the general community from being able to do that either, it's their choice if they want the creature in the game or not, and if they continue to vote on it well that means they do. If other creatures are desired enough, they will make it up there into the spots just like others have. I backed Maevia out of The Center to give the aquatics a chance because we are a bit lacking in the water area on Arks maps, but I will not be pulling her out of this one, as she is perfectly fit for a map that has a city loaded with spiders in the first place.

Nor would I presume to tell people what they do or don’t want. That’s not a constructive response and does not correctly characterize my stance, which is that Wildcard should structure votes to prevent stagnant recycled ideas from showing up again and again. Just because they’ve taken a generally laissez-faire approach to the votes does not mean that’s the best approach to be taking.

The bottom line is that Maevia has lost twice now. Had you included it in the Center, it would have lost a third time without a shadow of a doubt. If it loses again for Extinction, will you continue to try to ram it into votes, or at some point do you accept that *maybe it’s time for it to move on?*

1 hour ago, Sovira said:

I should also point out the fact that spiders and snakes, being the most hated animals on earth, and the system being ranked-choice voting, makes it an uphill battle for creatures like this submission, the Yingi, and others alike, Gigantophis the snake was struck out of the SE votes immediately in huge part due to these circumstances, aside from other factors. This isn't trying to replace it if you took and read my submission, there's plenty of things that can be done for Araneo as well to make it unique and truly fun outside of these ideas, and above all, who says it couldn't share many of these too? Jumping spiders are vastly different than the rest of the spiders as they hunt in a completely different manner and are incredibly intelligent, most of their behavior alone is vastly different from other spiders. ASA is coming up and there should be expectations that the Araneo will get its TLC eventually, as they already told us that they will be able to continue working on the main game through it and adding in new content. 

This is a strange point considering that two of the Top 10 on Ab were spiders, and as you yourself point out, Gigantophis made it to the top 10 on at least one occasion that I can remember. In fact, people were specifically thrilled for the opportunity to add something a bit different with Ab. I think you vastly overestimate how much people’s dislike of these creatures impact how they fare in the vote as opposed to people simply liking other options more for a wide variety of reasons (I.e. a spider doesn’t really fit on Scorched, or aquatics should win on a map characterized by its waterways, or “dang this thing keeps showing up, it’s been beat to death and I want to see something new”.)

1 hour ago, Sovira said:

Lastly, just because something has been submitted more than once doesn't make it less valid of an option to be put into the game, no matter what creature it is.

The problem here is that there are a *lot* of valid choices that don’t even get a chance for serious consideration, because recycled ideas get entrenched and take votes on votes to be dislodged. If anything, seeing a rehashed idea lose twice *does* speak to the idea that it’s maybe time to give other suggestions a chance. The question here isn’t one of validity—most of the things people are suggesting are perfectly valid choices—it’s of stagnancy and unoriginality as a byproduct of repetition in an arena where creativity and novelty should be rewarded.

3 hours ago, ShadowShadex said:

Not a good fit, tired of these repeat creatures every vote.

3 hours ago, KegoH52 said:

im also tired of seeing the lack of creature with every new repost of the same creature.

Yep. Wildcard needs to implement a cap on resubmissions. Creature get two chances in the top 10, then they're done. Give fresh ideas an opportunity to shine and stop crowding them out with the same handfuls of creatures taking two to three spots (or more) that could go to something else.

It'd be one thing if this creature was substantially changed from vote to vote, but it's extremely similar between votes. It's time for it to be retired. The fact that there's a roadmap planned for it if it doesn't win this vote is ridiculous. Creatures should not just be rammed into the vote again and again. It undermines the efforts of the broader community to generate new and interesting ideas.

In any case, we have a spider in the game. I would much prefer to see some of the features from this creature given to the Araneo so that it's actually worthwhile, rather than just neglecting it and trying to replace it.

I don’t think it should harvest Oil effectively. That’s the Dunkleosteus’s thing

1 hour ago, SpyroTheArtist said:

 

I know im adding fuel to the fire, But everyone that is submitting comments about Maevia Eurkea being Garbage and Useless and how it should be denied from the top ten are the reason why these creature votes end up becoming trash fires majority of the time. While I agree with the reposting (I did the same with Gorgonops so im not really one to talk), I do think that the spider deserves a spot in the top 10. whether it be on this map or the others. 

 

Don’t see that many people complaining that it’s useless. The frustration is seeing creature like Maevia, or Gorgonops, or Bastion Beetle, or Bison, etc etc keep showing up in the top 10 over and over again with minimal changes. It crowds out other suggestions by allowing repeat runners up to essentially be guaranteed a Top 10 spot even though they have lost several times already.

IMO submissions should get two chances at a Top 10 Vote, then they’re done unless a different person wants to provide a *substantively* different take on that creature. Meaning, the Gorgonops that made Top 10 twice is done. Sorry. Personally, I voted it top both times, but it’s time for it to retire. If someone else wants to come up with a novel take for Gorgonops, they can do so. Same for the Maevia

I’m particularly adamant about it now, too, because if it’s not nipped in the bud sooner rather than later it’s going to continue to be an issue. Moreover, the way a lot of the pro-Maevia people have responded on various platforms upon its losing has been childish & embarrassing, calling the vote rigged and mocking the Yi Ling & its creator.

On 1/7/2020 at 10:29 AM, AnimaSolis said:

Certain things like the Phoenix have needed reworking for ages. This would be good.

Why the Phoenix? I think it really just needs a proper landing mechanic... visually, it's fine, and it's got a very unique functionality for a tame (as well as being one of the most loaded tames in the game), so I really don't think it needs a rework

Currently raising my fresh 150 Lightning Wyvern Egg on my dedicated Ragnarok server  Also spawned in Rock Drakes as a New Year's gift for each of the members, so as they hop on we'll play around with those some. Other plans include getting an Ankylo and a Doed while the baby wyvern is growing

Last night (I've been busy so far today and haven't been on), I helped my friend tame an Equus  Pretty hilarious because he didn't realize it would want feeding as quick as it did, so it bucked him and he spent the next five minutes chasing it around our compound. Finally got on the darn thing, and it bolts straight for the sea.

After that, we ran around on our horses and kicked some Raptors in the face.

Finally, we hopped on our Mosa and Manta and went looking for Leedsichthys