I also try to avoid this topic as it just a endless argument but, 1st off PvE you all complain that anytime WC changes or nerfs a dino you are usually the first people to jump in here and say that is ruining your experience. So I will take an old nerf for example.....flyer nerf from way back in the day. So the speed cap on flyers how did that ruin your game in a PvE aspect? Cause you can't fly across the island in 2 seconds? Cause your trying to beat someone to a drop or a wild dino to tame? Cause you cant get materials back and forth as quick as you used too? Lets look at it from a PvP perspective......When Pt's could fly over pick you drop you kill you before you computer could even render the dino in because the PT has so much points in movement speed. Could C spin into a base without taking one turret shot because turrets even back than could not keep up with the speed. For the record I think we need to have Flyer speed increased or let us increase the speed of flyers again just cap it or like the allo make it where it only goes up by 1/2% per point or something. The only thing I am hearing from most of the PvE, not all of you, is that you now cant tame a quetz as easy. I can think of at least 4 different ways that you can solo tame a quetz and it just as easy but because you cant freeze a wild dino to force it to the ground to make you life more convenient that is wrong for WC to do if that is the case snowflake go play another game. I wish PvE people would try once in a while to look at things from a different perspective (Same with PvP people too) you guys have it EASY compared to us PvP. I would love just for 1 day I could go raid a PvE base/server right now with the current META and you guys could see how it feels to have so much time and energy put into a base/tames to see it all fall in a matter of hours because of a TEK Tape zerg a few racers and gigas and a couple of meks. Yes i have seen bases with 100 turrets wiped by about 15-20 people because of the META is it possible to do since the TEK Tape can cause so much damage to structures right now. I am sorry but when TEK structures came out it was logically the next phase after metal but when TEK Tapejara can cut threw TEK structures like a hot knife threw butter that doesn't make sense to me shouldn't TEK structures be this awesome thing where if you want it you have to work for it and actually try to blow into it? Not sit there and shoot it down in a blink of eye? From a PvP aspect we are actually punished in a way if we were to build a huge base 100% out of TEK becuase TEK tapes would rip right through it like nothing. To me that is a form of ruining the game not "I can't freeze a wild dino now". I understand the base example I gave is not the best but my point is there is a difference in ruining a player experience vs I cant tame something as easy now. Now yes I agree with most people WC made the mess that ARK is right now, PvP is not balanced and in reality it never will be lets all be honest with ourselves. ARK will never be balanced we all know this just some of us will never admit to it or dont want to admit to it. Have there been certain nerfs I thought were uncalled for sure do! Do I think that at times WC has no clue DILO there are doing sure. But most of us as well dont know the Dev side of things either and what limitation programming and coding can have within the game engine itself. Sure I get frustrated with them from time to time because servers are laggy as hell char have been lost during transfers dinos have been lost due to bugs or my mana going pass the world border and dying because of lag. All these things exist and I am sure some are easy to fix others are more complicated, I try to give WC devs a pass on somethings because I am sure coding and all that technical stuff is easier said than done at times depending on what they are trying to correct. But I am tired of hearing PvE people complain about change because 99% of the time changes usually dont affect your "game-play" you dont have to worry about 20 TEK tape sitting outside your base ready to shoot your base down, you dont have to worry about a sausage quetz coming to your base a blowing a hole in it without it taking one shot from a turret, and before i hear well the statement that PvE like to use of "play PvE than instead of PvP' just as you have your reasons to play PvE I have my reason to play PvP. The game was not designed to be played one way or the other so please stop that nonsense of ARK was based as either or. ARK was designed to be a survival game, you know survive, against PvE or PvP. And yes a lot of us PvP people enjoy the lore behind the game just want to throw that out there. So long post I probably repeated my self a lot but whatever. However WC Dev team I do want to take time to say a couple things to you in hopes you will read this however I doubt you will. The biggest issue with PvP that I think a lot of PvP people dont point out is this, How many dinos/creatures have you guys created? 100+? How many are actually practical to use in PvP 10-15 maybe (excluding farming dinos like the anky and such) I mean hey I wanna grab "x" dino and go PvP. Dinos in a PvP perspective dont have "niches" or ablities that could counter other dinos. Sure you gave us the new dino with Val but what do we have really do counter TEK tape rushes? I like the TEK tape "nerf" but that really only solves a small bit of what hurts PvP. Why dont you 1/2 the TEK tape damage and increase TEK structure heath or make it to where TEK structures take 1/2 damage vs TEK projectiles? Make it where the whole META of freeze person with owl throw out a pocket giga kill said person without even trying. And yes Devs there is a reason why people build in caves. I love the titans they great awesome and all that but really people on other maps do kinda get screwed over because turrets have been nerf to the point that no one really who have been around for awhile are really that afraid of turrets anymore. I remember back in the day turrets/x plants used to scare people off back in the day. Its almost like the risk/reward "system" has gone away. Oh that base has 100 turrets that OK we got 5 racers with capped saddles and a bunch of duped Valentines day candies will take care of that no problem. If you really wanna "balance" the game make it worth while to have a huge base on the island/center/rag again. Make turrets a viable option or give us something to where yes if someone downloads a titan on said map the other tribe does in fact have a chance to counter effectively. What that is I honestly dont know? Up turret damage/range again? Up turret limit to 200? Gigas get a buff similar to trikes where gigas can do more damage to titans? Again I really dont know but alot of things have been taking away from us PvP that I think PvE people dont get. I personally loved it where on PvP you could effectively have nice/huge looking base but could withstand PvP. We dont have that now. PvE you can pretty much build anywhere you want on any map. PvP not so much if you want your base to stand for more than 24HRS. I get it any base can be raided with enough people/resources/time everyone in PvP knows this and understands it, my point is this, people build in the Ice Cave or Carno Cave cause why? Well a death wall full of turrets is a better defense option that a base in the open on the island somewhere where yes i am sorry turrets and dinos can only do so much against the current META right now. It honestly seems at times Devs you are running around in circles like the Mana.....Manas where admittedly OP when they came out in the beginning and than you "nerf" but it seems like your always doing that. I get it your not going to get every dino/creature 100% balance and/or correct the first time sometimes trial and error or BETA testing would be the way to go before you launch things on the official network. An Idea comes to mind I get your BETA testing changes which is cool and all but how before you launch genesis have a close beta server and let a good chunk of the PvP and PvE population participate in get feedback and change things are possibly bugged/broken/mesh spots/etc......re test it than try again. Remember when you all first came out on steam? I do. It was fun but at least we all knew what we signed up for and you were actively fixing things and listing to the people who played the game. I would not bitch if you came out and said we are delaying a patch or whatever if you came out and said we tested this and because of "xyz" issues we are going to repair this issue re test/fix and than release and let us know why and give us a realistic time line (which i understand sometimes is easier said than done).