Jump to content

Resources Not Respawning Now Due to Pillar Spam


HighDBoom

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, ciabattaroll said:

Ideally pvp servers wouldn't need to protect resource areas with pillars, as they have a myriad other means to remove them. Grenades, IEDs, c4, RPGs, or even gigas. It's just that people will defend it by saying that their time is limited and will not want to grind for materials to remove pillars in a game where grinding is very prevalent .

The main issue is that the actual costs to the players aren't the same. It costs nearly nothing to place pillars down, but to remove them is pretty expensive. Even far more so if they're on a slope, where grenades can't easily hit them. Plus you're likely to have many pillars in a particular area, which only multiplies the cost to deal with them. To make it worse, it's entirely possible to get some pillars in some places where explosives simply won't reach them.

Personally, I would like to see a fairly large damage multiplier to structures on mountains to discourage building on them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 174
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Unfortunately there is no easy answer here because there are servers with trolls, kids that don't know how to share, and adult children who don't know how to share.

I personally have a fair amount of space pillared on our server, but we are one of the largest tribes, though all of our established tribes do.  

We are PvE, when we don't have resources pillared people move into the middle of important spawns.  For example the rock spawn in the lake by the red ob on The Island.  Someone moved in there, guess what, no good large resource anymore. When they left, we pillared.  It is open to everyone on the island to use, same with forests.

Now we will clear pillars if someone wants to build in an area as long as it isn't too close to our base and standard stuff like that.

As a matter of fact I just demoed an old one of our bases we weren't using so a new person could move into that area last night.

All they have to do is ask and not be A-holes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, arathein said:

Now we will clear pillars if someone wants to build in an area as long as it isn't too close to our base and standard stuff like that. As a matter of fact I just demoed an old one of our bases we weren't using so a new person could move into that area last night. All they have to do is ask and not be A-holes.

So basically you're playing a server admin without being a server admin? I think most of the arguments against what people are doing with pillars is that these people really have no right to control what others should and should not be able to do. People shouldn't have to "ask" in order to build somewhere. They should just be able to build there like you everyone else had the choice when it wasn't pillared. I play PvP, on Primitive Mode, so pillars are a nightmare for us, and I do hope something happens with them, but I don't think they've got the answer right yet. No build zones and fixes like that will just create different problems. The fact that ARK has static spawns for objects that can be harvested is a bit silly. Make it so that instead of a rock spawning as a stone rock it has a % chance to spawn as a metal rock, etc. Randomise the game up a bit. There's a hundred ways they can approach this but one of them is not that players are the ones deciding on each individual server who has the right to do what.

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Thalantyr said:

So basically you're playing a server admin without being a server admin? I think most of the arguments against what people are doing with pillars is that these people really have no right to control what others should and should not be able to do. People shouldn't have to "ask" in order to build somewhere. They should just be able to build there like you everyone else had the choice when it wasn't pillared. I play PvP, on Primitive Mode, so pillars are a nightmare for us, and I do hope something happens with them, but I don't think they've got the answer right yet. No build zones and fixes like that will just create different problems. The fact that ARK has static spawns for objects that can be harvested is a bit silly. Make it so that instead of a rock spawning as a stone rock it has a % chance to spawn as a metal rock, etc. Randomise the game up a bit. There's a hundred ways they can approach this but one of them is not that players are the ones deciding on each individual server who has the right to do what.

Newby sees a shiny rock. 

Newby picks that shiny rock.

Newby gets metal from it. 

Newby likes metal.

Newby builds a base there for proximity and ease.

Newby wonders why that shiny rock doesn't respawn.

Newby sets his eyes on another node.

x20

 

Moderating is needed because of the few spawns The Island has. Really, that map isn't built for 70 players. At 20-25 the dino spawns cut and at 35 peeps it feels super cramped. Enough for 10 peeps to meatfarm to considerably bring down the wild dino count. I know you know this. I also think the "no build zones" that are on top of the major hills shouldn't be executed on the sides or anywhere else. Well, not as they are now. I often find gigas on the mountainsides and taming them there is convenient and safe. Quetzals aren't that much different. They down wherever they want, it seems :smiley:. Anyways, we sometimes need to build taming pens or other such emergency situations. Definitely the choke points should be found and building in and around them restricted. I'd suggest a 24h decay timer that can't be reset even if in proximity. One could plate it as "worn out by the harsh conditions". I'd also apply low oxygen to higher altitudes for no complaints :smiley:.

But I do like your rock vs metal spawn randomizing. Maybe that's the procedural map development they were talking about? Coupled with other things we can only imagine and wish for. I have hope in the development if senior players are heard for their insights. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
25 minutes ago, nscheffel said:

See, now this is a useful response I would expect from a paid employee of a company when they post on the forums in an official capacity. I wasn't offended in any way as I have skin that's thick enough to handle a meme that took zero thought, effort, or cleverness to copy from somewhere else. Anyways, you guys are making this way harder and more complicated than it needs to be.

The players want 2 things:

1. Resources to not be blocked from spawning.

2. Land to not be grabbed by pillar spammers.

The devs want 1 thing:

1. The game to not have pillars/foundations uglying up the map. 

The solution is simple. Do away with "no build" zones. Make all resources blow away structures in a tiered manner when they respawn . Anything in a high enough tier to prevent a resource from spawning can be effectively used to clear an area. For example:

- Random rocks on the ground and bushes destroy nothing.

- Trees destroy any thatch structure in their way when they respawn. This will effectively restrict thatch structures to the beach areas where they belong.

- Rocks destroy any wood or lower structure in their way on respawn. If a player wants to build in a stone area or mountain they will need to build with stone.

- Non-rich metal nodes destroy stone or lower structures on respawn. Loot crates should probably destroy stone as well.

- Rich metal, obsidian, crystal and oil nodes destroy any structure built in their way.

Even in PvE, the respawning of resources will keep the landscape relatively clear. There is no need for "no build" zones or complicated decay algorithms based on number of snapped objects. You are trying to stop griefers, and the best way to stop griefers is to make it not worth their time to grief. If they want to block metal spawns they will need to farm and build out of metal. If they want to block all building in a large forested area, they will need to farm tons of stone to do so. Griefers are lazy...it's why they grief instead of playing the game itself.      

This is horridly forcing people to only build in a certain way, which ultimately also goes against the creative atmosphere that ARK tries to nurture.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
On 8/14/2016 at 11:17 AM, catnip said:

When is the rollback supposed to happen? I checked this morning at 8 and they were still there.

 

Only the change listed in 245.986, for pillars having a larger resource respawn blocking radius, was rolled back.  If you hit escape, you should see the version is at 245.988.  So, any place with just pillars(no ceilings on them) should allow resources to grow again.

However, with 245.988, on official servers, PVE has the new options already turned on for fast decay(5x) for  unsnapped foundations and pillars, and auto demolish for old structure.  PVP only has fast decay turned on for only unsnapped pillars.  This is according to the patch notes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
On 8/12/2016 at 6:10 PM, Mystalias said:

I would like to think Gateways will be combined with Procedural generation and ascension to create 'infinite land'

If this game has shown us anything it's that 'infinite land' with current game mechanics just becomes 'infinite pillars'.

Throwing more land at the issue won't fix a thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
1 minute ago, Jerryn said:

However, with 245.988, on official servers, PVE has an option on for fast decay(5x)

This is the part I don't get. If it's on official servers, is the option turned on?

And on official servers players can't change the options so it's not really an option.

Or is that just bad wording for official player dedicated servers?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
1 minute ago, Joebl0w13 said:

This is the part I don't get. If it's on official servers, is the option turned on?

And on official servers players can't change the options so it's not really an option.

Or is that just bad wording for official player dedicated servers?

This is what it says:

* Note: All official PvE servers now have "-AutoDestroyStructures", to automatically demolish old structures, and "?FastDecayUnsnappedCoreStructures=true". Official PvP servers only do this on Pillars, using "?OnlyDecayUnsnappedCoreStructures=true".

I am think thinking it means that they are on when the officials go to 245.988.

While this could be used on private servers, must of this is not needed, but still could be put to good use from time to time.

If anything, I under quoted this, because the Auto Demolish seems to be for any old structure, not just unsnapped pillar/foundations; though, those will got 5X faster now.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

This is the part I don't get. If it's on official servers, is the option turned on?

And on official servers players can't change the options so it's not really an option.

Or is that just bad wording for official player dedicated servers?

This is already applied to official servers, and pillars of players have already been auto destroyed if players have been offline a few days, In about 24 hours or so all wood pillars unsnapped to anything placed before the current patch will be gone

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
1 minute ago, nscheffel said:

Snapping a 2nd pillar on top of the first one does, but I haven't bothered to test a ceiling on a pillar. So instead of pillar spam we will see slightly taller pillar spam.

This is kinda where I was going with this. Doesn't seem to have solved much other than double the cost of pillar spam.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
9 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

This is kinda where I was going with this. Doesn't seem to have solved much other than double the cost of pillar spam.

To answer a few of your questions at once.

As far as I know, it is not on XBox yet.  I believe anything for XBox, including patches, has to go through Microsoft'sQA process.  The benefit of that will be though you get it later, you will get it after it has been through a few iterations.

And, on servers where the pillars have been around for a while, and not been snapped, they should demolish faster.  Of course, making it more expensive will slow some of them down.

But, I doubt this is the final solution, but another step in an iterative design process.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator

Just a quick reminder for those that need it.

You can have a civil conversation, and even disagree with someone, without resorting to personal attacks or attempts to marginalize them.  Doing so does not make your point any more valid; if anything, it demonstrates the opposite.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
8 minutes ago, Rickyh24 said:

There is no way to solve it. Next step is not allowing double pillar but then people will just snap a ceiling. It's a player problem unfortunately and the only solution is to not play on official servers. 

I think while they can make it harder/more costly, a dedicated griefer is hard to stop; but, you can at least slow them down.  Maybe the next step is a combination of structure complexity and proximity; though I don't really know what they plan next.

One solution could be to eventually have paid servers that could cover the cost of having proactive GMs on duty to deal with issues; which is basically like having private servers run by WC.  Would certainly be different than playing on a free server.

But, when you cut through some of the noise, there are some interesting ideas from those that are providing constructive input.  But, as you have pointed out, it eventually comes down the players.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

If this game has shown us anything it's that 'infinite land' with current game mechanics just becomes 'infinite pillars'.

Throwing more land at the issue won't fix a thing.

Only if you also had infinite players... With a 70 person cap (at any given time) you could assume up to 250 individuals playing on a server in the course of a day/week/month. If each one claims/uses 1 square km or so of space (pretty average after a long period of time) you need 250 square km of claimable/useable space to support all of them. The island is about 7km from top left to top right for a total of about 49 square kilometers.  The Center is slightly bigger at 7.5x7.5 (56 square km) but with two large sections being unusable for building.  Madagascar is roughly 100km, or a 10x10km grid.

Keeping these area amounts in mind, it is easy to see why most of the official pves are hovering between 20 to 30 people. There is only so many places that are desirable to build... As players advance, they figure out building methods that work in the odd spots like the volcano side... but begin running into the falling through things bugs and other issues. Also all the competition over popular spots like the hidden lake, beach areas, herby island and droyo's cove. 

This is how I've arrived at the figure of needing about 5x more space to handle the player counts they want.  If they can get up to about 25x or even more, people might expand a bit more than 1 square km of space, but you would eventually reach your limit of how much work you want to do to maintain it all.  Fast travel and teleporters aside...

Note that this is only if everyone claims a large area.  The guys starting off on the beach won't need as much room as the guy who has been around 6 months, nor do they need the same resources anymore. But over time, everyone finds an equilibrium. I personally like to build small and have less to maintain. I've had huge bases in the past though, and even upwards of 200-300 tames when I was running a public egg farm. (Yes, solo. Lots of people gave creatures for the farm, and I often got invited to bases coming up for claim to take the egg layers no one wanted.)

Just my opinion. I've been on Minecraft servers before and while there is always one or two guys with buildings all over the place, most people just have one or two places they like and do most of their exploration for rare materials.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

I already posted a few obvious solution to this issue months ago

 you could just remove no respawn radius from fence foundations and pillars and cut radius for foundations in half. Also give mounts a small no re spawn radius pretty much their collision box + a few meters just to keep them from being sent underground by things spawning ontop of them.

the better but more involved methods would be make the no re spawn radius configurable allowing the user to set whether a foundation has it's normal radius 1/2 1/4 or disabled (basically the radius is the size of the foundation preventing things from spawning through the floor but not extending any distance from it. Default would be disabled you know for the newbies.

Another thing that can be done not exactly related is make it so when a player has RE-Fertalizer in their 0 slot they will see holographic outlines of trees and rocks that have been removed so they know where they need to actually spread it or just quadruple the radius.

But honestly the problem is not and never has been a pillar problem but rather a how structures impact the environment problem.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...