Primitive Plus 1.1 Patch Notes

[Jimmy NoShoes]

2 minutes ago, Savoy7 said:

The main issue here is the deceit. Primitive+ is in Beta 1, so we are all basically beta testing it. We thought we were reporting bugs for a PC fix which we were told would happen last week initially. After several delays, we find out that their priority was to fix P+ for the XBOX release instead of fixing it for the PC version which has already been released. That's not right. The PC version is in serious need of a patch, it should have been priority because it is already released. XBOX can wait.

It is not just that. Xbox players were told specifically that they would be receiving Primitive+ once all the major issues had been fixed with the PC release, hence they kept being told no ETA but possibly mid September. We now know this to be entirely a lie.

But yes, you are quite right. The main issue for a lot is the deceit.

[Schizodebauchee]

37 minutes ago, DirtyRat said:

I am not going to comment on the the events of the last 2 weeks anymore, just sit back and wait for the patch.

I believe this is the best way to handle things at this point too. We can debate, re-debate, point fingers, express disappointment, et cetera til we are different colored in the face and grundle ... to zero effect. As a community excited for the DLC we should transition back to a positive mindset, explore ideas with what we have, what we know we are getting, brainstorm ideas for further expansion; have fun with Primitive Plus.

I know I have invited several people on the P+ threads on Steam to keep in touch with. Have visited a couple of people's servers. Still wait with fingers a'tapping for my chance to get my hands back on my beloved Flaming Arrows. And make grandiose plans behind the scenes to offer a dedicated P+ server with reasonable rates like seems to be requested by so many people.

A "rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints" scenario.

[Jimmy NoShoes]

8 minutes ago, Schizodebauchee said:

I believe this is the best way to handle things at this point too. We can debate, re-debate, point fingers, express disappointment, et cetera til we are different colored in the face and grundle ... to zero effect. As a community excited for the DLC we should transition back to a positive mindset, explore ideas with what we have, what we know we are getting, brainstorm ideas for further expansion; have fun with Primitive Plus.

I know I have invited several people on the P+ threads on Steam to keep in touch with. Have visited a couple of people's servers. Still wait with fingers a'tapping for my chance to get my hands back on my beloved Flaming Arrows. And make grandiose plans behind the scenes to offer a dedicated P+ server with reasonable rates like seems to be requested by so many people.

A "rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints" scenario.

Agreed. It is clear they aren't going to answer anything or provide any kind of apology at this time. Anything in the future is going to be a case of 'too little too late' for me anyway. My replies prior were to clarify things and correct people who said that everyone here was simply moaning for the sake of moaning.

That being said, I will still continue to update the bug thread, along with the next bug thread post patch, and continue to help the community here in any way I can, as well as on STEAM. Whilst not my job to do so, someone should do it. The damage has been done, and I don't think anyone will be quick to forget what has happened. We can only hope that they learn from this.

#NoShoeMasterRace (Thanks Shizo).

[Grimm]

8 minutes ago, Schizodebauchee said:

I believe this is the best way to handle things at this point too. We can debate, re-debate, point fingers, express disappointment, et cetera til we are different colored in the face and grundle ... to zero effect. As a community excited for the DLC we should transition back to a positive mindset, explore ideas with what we have, what we know we are getting, brainstorm ideas for further expansion; have fun with Primitive Plus.

I know I have invited several people on the P+ threads on Steam to keep in touch with. Have visited a couple of people's servers. Still wait with fingers a'tapping for my chance to get my hands back on my beloved Flaming Arrows. And make grandiose plans behind the scenes to offer a dedicated P+ server with reasonable rates like seems to be requested by so many people.

A "rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints" scenario.

Can't argue that one.  Well said, and count me in with any way I can help.

[Schizodebauchee]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy NoShoes said:

#NoShoeMasterRace (Thanks Shizo).

 

[Remani]

While I agree that the calm thing to do would be to sit back and relax in this scenario, but that's precisely the reaction a company (and mod developer) like this is expecting and hoping for us to do.

 

Jimmy mentioned something a few pages ago about why he doesn't understand how a development company or even CM could post on Twitter instead of their main forums and leave us all in the dark. It's the same reason the bigger companies like Bioware and soon Bethesda have opted to shut down their main forums and stick with social media outlets to force objective statements down our throats: It's easier for them to avoid conflict and appear essentially blameless. It's easier to post on Twitter and ignore the replies when they aren't even the first thing you see every time you open up their page. On the forums, however, you can see where this becomes a problem every time a deadline is missed or a promise is lied about. The only difference is that WC has the system perfected - they post one vague future outlook and use key phrases like "ETA" and "should be released..." so that when the time comes to decide to hold off any of that extra content because they realized 'oh damn, next month we won't have anything else new to give them except those 2 dinosaurs we fully developed 6 months ago'. So instead, they decide to trickle us content that has been in the patch notes for months and months after several inexplicable delays.

 

Unfortunately, CM has adopted these values with P+ which is sad because unless these issues get resolved by this weekend, I truly feel as though this DLC will go down in flames as far as player count goes.

[Sanbo]

I wish we had the player transfer I would move back to a normal server.....  PP+ is broken and needs to be fixed.  I have stuck by WC for along time and have faith in what the game will become.  Their only problem is they need a better PR group.

[Trickcrash]

xbox???????????

 

[Belthize]

I took a break from Ark last November due to continuing frustration with the devkit and delays.  On returning I see some things haven't changed. 

I recently returned to poke at The Center and Primitive+ and so of course I'm getting to re-live some of the frustrations that drove me away but I'm inclined to cut the developer of Primitive+ some slack since I strongly suspect the major problem with Ark is a complete lack of mature development tools and has zero to do with him.

Ark makes heavy use of inherited parameters from classes and sub-classes and it's a nightmare trying to keep them all straight.  There's no good interface for cross checking or confirming settings it's just brute force editing.  Looking at the bug fix list for prim+ a great many of those do not appear to be engine or logic code changes, they're flag or parameter settings.  

I'm astonished that there is *any* difference between the Xbox and PC releases at that level, there's zero reason to be, in fact there's ample reason for there not to be.  At a certain level of complexity it's simply not possible to make a change without breaking something.

I wish they'd spend a big chunk of the last year writing validation and build tools so class bugs wouldn't creep back in after every patch but apparently that hasn't happened.

Oh well,  I'll continue to wait but I don't predict I'll stick it out very long.  Damn shame really.

[scootz]

Hey guys, cut complex minded a break, he thought that the Xbox fixed would port directly. Although pc should have been a priority, sometimes money changes things. When cm started off, he thought it was not that big a job, but it just kept spiraling out of control as more and more was found to be broken. On the prim+ bug list post complex responded and apologized for everything a few minutes ago, and is now keeping his mouth shut about the release date. Although the communication has been sub par as of late, who can blame him, he's been working on a fix for 30 hours straight for the pc build! I for one am thankful that he is still working on it even though these forums have constantly been discouraging him. Let's try to actually show support and show him that we are with him, not against him. Jimmy did a very helpful thing by creating that bug report thread. We should do stuff like that instead of throwing rage and hate at him! You try developing dlc for something you have pieced together as a mod AND communicate efficiently with people. Would you rather him spend hours answering our questions and giving us status updates instead of spending those hours fixing things? Yes, we need to know why the updates been delayed or why it needs to wait, but, as an engineer myself, I can tell you that when you get started on a project it can be hard to stop to tell the masses what is going on. That is why we hire media people

[Remani]

3 minutes ago, scootz said:

Hey guys, cut complex minded a break, he thought that the Xbox fixed would port directly. Although pc should have been a priority, sometimes money changes things. When cm started off, he thought it was not that big a job, but it just kept spiraling out of control as more and more was found to be broken. On the prim+ bug list post complex responded and apologized for everything a few minutes ago, and is now keeping his mouth shut about the release date. Although the communication has been sub par as of late, who can blame him, he's been working on a fix for 30 hours straight for the pc build! I for one am thankful that he is still working on it even though these forums have constantly been discouraging him. Let's try to actually show support and show him that we are with him, not against him. Jimmy did a very helpful thing by creating that bug report thread. We should do stuff like that instead of throwing rage and hate at him! You try developing dlc for something you have pieced together as a mod AND communicate efficiently with people. Would you rather him spend hours answering our questions and giving us status updates instead of spending those hours fixing things? Yes, we need to know why the updates been delayed or why it needs to wait, but, as an engineer myself, I can tell you that when you get started on a project it can be hard to stop to tell the masses what is going on. That is why we hire media people

Literally everything you just typed there contradicted everything that is or has been happening for the last 2 weeks and more so the last several months.

 

Also, you should've just stopped at "money changes things."

[scootz]

2 minutes ago, Remani said:

Literally everything you just typed there contradicted everything that is or has been happening for the last 2 weeks and more so the last several months.

 

Also, you should've just stopped at "money changes things."

Obviously you didn't read complex's post on the bug thread, and he has to follow what WC wants. I'm just saying cut complex a break, not WC...

[Jimmy NoShoes]

@scootzProblem is they have media people, and Community Managers. They just... don't do their job titles.

@Remani - Unfortunately money does change things, and I still believe this to be the motivating decision behind WC wanting to push the Xbox release sooner.

I do agree with you however, in that the thing to do now is offer some kind of support. Kinda what I just wrote back in response on the bug thread. While mistakes have been made, and we have been mislead from the beginning, there is very little point keeping our pitchforks raised ready to be thrown, they'll simply vanish. (See what I did there? :-p) 

I've stated a few times now, I am more than happy to keep the bug thread going, and up to date with any new additions. I'll continue to do so after the patch does come with the next version. I've tried to keep my replies on here as balanced as I can, I can see why decisions have been made, and I can see why everyone is angry about it. I still stand by my posts previous, and I do feel we were intentionally mislead. 

Again, the damage has been done and we can only hope they learn from this, both Complexminded and Wildcard. 

 

[StarKillerX]

7 minutes ago, scootz said:

Hey guys, cut complex minded a break, he thought that the Xbox fixed would port directly. Although pc should have been a priority, sometimes money changes things. When cm started off, he thought it was not that big a job, but it just kept spiraling out of control as more and more was found to be broken. On the prim+ bug list post complex responded and apologized for everything a few minutes ago, and is now keeping his mouth shut about the release date. Although the communication has been sub par as of late, who can blame him, he's been working on a fix for 30 hours straight for the pc build! I for one am thankful that he is still working on it even though these forums have constantly been discouraging him. Let's try to actually show support and show him that we are with him, not against him. Jimmy did a very helpful thing by creating that bug report thread. We should do stuff like that instead of throwing rage and hate at him! You try developing dlc for something you have pieced together as a mod AND communicate efficiently with people. Would you rather him spend hours answering our questions and giving us status updates instead of spending those hours fixing things? Yes, we need to know why the updates been delayed or why it needs to wait, but, as an engineer myself, I can tell you that when you get started on a project it can be hard to stop to tell the masses what is going on. That is why we hire media people

If everything would port over directly, then why not do the work on the PC, you know, the platform that's actually been released and has actually needed a patch for more then two weeks now? If there was even a 1% chance it wouldn't port it should have been done on the released platform since that is the one with people not only having to deal with the issues but also reporting them to you so you can fix them.

Also it wouldn't take hours to post an update on either this thread, or Jimmy's every day or two.

[Remani]

1 hour ago, Jimmy NoShoes said:

@scootzProblem is they have media people, and Community Managers. They just... don't do their job titles.

@Remani - Unfortunately money does change things, and I still believe this to be the motivating decision behind WC wanting to push the Xbox release sooner.

I do agree with you however, in that the thing to do now is offer some kind of support. Kinda what I just wrote back in response on the bug thread. While mistakes have been made, and we have been mislead from the beginning, there is very little point keeping our pitchforks raised ready to be thrown, they'll simply vanish. (See what I did there? :-p) 

I've stated a few times now, I am more than happy to keep the bug thread going, and up to date with any new additions. I'll continue to do so after the patch does come with the next version. I've tried to keep my replies on here as balanced as I can, I can see why decisions have been made, and I can see why everyone is angry about it. I still stand by my posts previous, and I do feel we were intentionally mislead. 

Again, the damage has been done and we can only hope they learn from this, both Complexminded and Wildcard. 

The problem isn't so much that we aren't being supportive, because I absolutely am - but sometimes support doesn't have to come in waves of hugs and flowers, rather harsh realizations and an emotional community response. This is still just a major frustration in regards to the absolute lack of communication. From day 1 of the initial upcoming patch notes for P+, the language he used made it fairly clear that PC was going to be the primary platform he would be developing the patch for considering it's already released on our platform and people have already sunk (presumably) hundreds of hours into it over the last 2 and a half weeks. On top of that, there's now the looming question of a P+ server wipe that no one from development seems to be giving any type of clarity on - which would only rub salt in the wound if it turns out to be true.

 

My main concern, and final point here, is that of all the people to gather information and construct a solid bridge between the developer and the community is someone who is neither a moderator nor media personnel of WC - Jimmy NoShoes. There's just something entirely not right or ethical about that.

[complexminded]

Thread updated again!

[Jimmy NoShoes]

Looking good, some nice QOL improvements there. I'll get my thread updated shortly.

[TyrelSackett]

4 minutes ago, complexminded said:

Thread updated again!

What we all want to know @complexminded is when is all this going to be made available to us?  How long is the xbox supposed to take?

And to be clear, I don't care if its weeks out.. I just need a realistic timeframe?  We have told our user base so many different things now that we've lost our players.  If you say you are 3 weeks out, I'll be fine with that too.. just need something realistic??  Thanks!

[complexminded]

1 minute ago, TyrelSackett said:

What we all want to know @complexminded is when is all this going to be made available to us?  How long is the xbox supposed to take?

Until I know for absolutely sure, I dont want to give any dates which could mislead someone.  What has to happen now is I have to get the update built - then go through and confirm all of the changes are good.  In terms of Xbox, we haven't heard back from Xbox yet.  There IS a possibility that it fails QA and I have to go back and fix some things - which is why I don't want to give a date right now.

[TyrelSackett]

Just now, complexminded said:

Until I know for absolutely sure, I dont want to give any dates which could mislead someone.  What has to happen now is I have to get the update built - then go through and confirm all of the changes are good.  In terms of Xbox, we haven't heard back from Xbox yet.  There IS a possibility that it fails QA and I have to go back and fix some things - which is why I don't want to give a date right now.

Well that's a great answer! I'd rather know its on hold than to get a false date!  i'm totally ok with unknown!  Better to not have a date than a bunch of missed ones.  Thanks!

I know a lot of people have been bitching at you (and WC in general) @complexminded.  Its not a fun position to be in when you are almost at the top of the food chain, but not quite all the way at the top ;-)   The game is a pre-release, and WC is a for profit-business.  So decisions have to be made that benefit the company and not always the users.  We lost all our prim+ players over the past week.  That suck?  Yep?  End of the world?  Hell no.  We move on.  Once all the kinks get worked out, we'll be back on Prim+. You Rock.. i don't envy your position, but I am envious of your skills.. You rock! 

[LostHoursVidiot]

3 hours ago, complexminded said:

Until I know for absolutely sure, I dont want to give any dates which could mislead someone.  What has to happen now is I have to get the update built - then go through and confirm all of the changes are good.  In terms of Xbox, we haven't heard back from Xbox yet.  There IS a possibility that it fails QA and I have to go back and fix some things - which is why I don't want to give a date right now.

Maybe another community lead can field questions and be a go between so you solely have to focus on the work.  Your tag says Wildcard Community lead, but hard to communicate and get the work done

[StarKillerX]

4 hours ago, complexminded said:

Until I know for absolutely sure, I dont want to give any dates which could mislead someone.  What has to happen now is I have to get the update built - then go through and confirm all of the changes are good.  In terms of Xbox, we haven't heard back from Xbox yet.  There IS a possibility that it fails QA and I have to go back and fix some things - which is why I don't want to give a date right now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that if the xbox release comes back from MS as failed BEFORE the PC patch is completed you will need to go back to work on the xbox version, with the pc patch unreleased?

[Schizodebauchee]

56 minutes ago, StarKillerX said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that if the xbox release comes back from MS as failed BEFORE the PC patch is completed you will need to go back to work on the xbox version, with the pc patch unreleased?

He had to finish the XB1 build first from the get-go, doubt the priorities have changed at this point.

And, again, I sincerely doubt it is his call. Microsoft QA and deadlines.

[StarKillerX]

3 minutes ago, Schizodebauchee said:

He had to finish the XB1 build first from the get-go, doubt the priorities have changed at this point.

And, again, I sincerely doubt it is his call. Microsoft QA and deadlines.

I'm not saying it's his call, but the fact that we've gone two weeks without a patch, while they patched a version for an unreleased platform, does something roughly 1000 hours of playtime, in 2.5 months (I'm basically housebound due to a severe back injury) has been unable to do, and that's to decrease my interest in this game.

Seeing a company screw their current customers in favor of hoping to get other customers is sleazy, and IMO eliminates any good faith they might have built with their current player base as basically it says that we are not a priority because they already have our money, which is a major issue with the ponzi scheme that early access has become. 

[DirtyRat]

1 hour ago, StarKillerX said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that if the xbox release comes back from MS as failed BEFORE the PC patch is completed you will need to go back to work on the xbox version, with the pc patch unreleased?

That is 100% NOT what he is saying.

What he was saying is that he had to get the PC patch built and confirm the changes, which he has done and it is in QA now. The confusion was down to bad formatting, the Xbox statement was answering a completely different question.

The PC patch won't be delayed and will be out soon!