Lets have a serious talk about this game and where its going

[thestiffler]

Hello there,

let me preface this by saying I love SoTF its a real unique game in the "survival" market, however its fair to say that as it stands the game is being crippled slowly by some large scale issues.

http://steamcharts.com/app/407530

As you can see SOTF has gone from a peak of 3900 players to a peak of 1700, if you look at the average players we have had a drop by 50% of the player pool, for a game offering large amounts of cash per month this is kind of crazy.

As a counterpoint to this ark (the retail version) is up 3k and 7%

So whats going wrong with SOTF ?

1) Lack of interaction and seemingly support from the devs, we were told sotf had its own team but over the last month there has been next to nothing come out of the dev team 174 was the last patch (which was welcome) but since then radio silence, no plan for of the offseason or changes to the meta nothing, total silence. Look at overwatch look at the CM team there and the recent large scale post/youtube about the game, competitive play and their roadmap it engages with the player group instead of us all being mushroomed.

2) Lack of exposure, the playoffs were a starting point and much better than all being offline but the last playoff to be quite frank was haphazard (commentator dropping out 30 mins before, settings wrong for FFA, and audio making it unwatchable), there was also a palpable lack of HYPE generated (what feeds twich), this is the biggest failing currently where is the engagement ? where Is the content coming out of WC, videos, interesting bits, guides, pushing it across platforms ? I don't see anything about the game and If it wasn't for a loyal band of twitch streamers it would have zero exposure. If you want the game to really be a success you need to push it, esports is a competitive market and you have to as a developer get really involved and behind it if you want it to succeed.

3) ELO - the system is the most frustrating thing ever, its horrible, it really is and resetting it every season is just going to make that worse, instead of letting people settle at different levels of ELO instead of by a process of minimal gains force the high ELO players into higher ELO games by resetting every season you just get tournament winners beating up guys playing their first game of SOTF ever, if you had left the elo as it was then the players who were 2k wouldn't be able to get anything from a 1500 game..... meaning those games would slowly fill with the poorer players and new players which oddly enough would be a lot more engaging for the new folk instead of getting smashed to bits by Deki (or someone equally good) in their first game. There is also as it stands almost no incentive to play a high level ELO game, none the truth is (FFA at least) there is a fair bit of "luck" involved in any game going into a high ELO game and having to finish top 5 minimum to get any elo is madness, its even madder when a 7th place finish in say a 1800+ game will net you a los of points, where is the incentive for these guys? if you punish them for choosing to play high ELO games they just wont do it. Add on the fact that because of the constant resets getting the ELO required to hit the top 40 means sotf is a part time job (or full time for some) this isn't healthy dumping 150 hours a month into a game for a chance at a 40 min playoff....

4) The misery of streaming, anyone that dares to stream your game right now has to put up with sniping untold amounts of it even the low end like myself get it and in game like SOTF where information is power then its pretty miserable, the streamers that "don't want to get sniped" now have to jump through several hoops and even then its still fairly easy If you want to snipe the streamer, some sort of stance from the devs on this would be nice, or at least giving us the option to set an "in game" name so it doesn't default to our steam name would be a start.. by all means keep the top 40 displaying it if you let us have an "in game" name we change. If you aren't terribly bothered about streamers that's fine, but how does that help point 2 ?

5) Bugs (hah see what I did there), there is a real problem with dragonflies/meganura I cant put my finger on exactly what it is because I honestly don't understand how they work but some games having broken legs because I had to fight off 60 of them for no real reason _really_ sucks, having them just aggro you for nothing _really_ sucks, why do they even have a posion ? what purpose does it perform ? its just terrible they are terrible and they need looking at.

6) Game bugs, Gigantopithecus bug is still there (its being used), pathing still sucks, animals get 99% taming, animals getting stuck on _everything_ Desync means people look like Borimir after a bow fight and makes every single bow fight some random event. these things have been there for months now and I see no plans or roadmap to address it. Come on guys this silly at this point.

7) Wildcard created tutorials or an obvious "practise" mode with official servers/rules, new players have way to much to learn they need either exentisve tutorials or to be forced to play 5 "unranked" games on official servers, hell set it up so unanked uses the auto MM system so you can play with it and tweak it (with a much larger variance) don't allow people to queue for ranked until they have completed x unranked games, when you join the game or your elo is 1500 have a popup that links to the wildcard youtube channel and within that will be guides from basic > advanced, right now it sucks "LOL MY FIRST GAME" "player has died 30 seconds into it"

8) Esports come on guys take some inspiration from other esports, get some proper "in house" casting team together and I would suggest splitting the  FFA/2v2/4v4 onto different days with a proper build up (player profiles, actual analysis not just look bow fight lulz) start getting smarter, start publicising the game I would welcome it if you took some of the 65k prize pool and pumped it into these areas, more regular events (not just once a month), proper casting teams where you have a colour commentator paired with a play by play guy, dedicated spectator so the guys who ae commentating don't need to try and fly the camera too... its all stuff that's been going for years and there is no need to ignore it just use what will work with sotf and implement it.

9) clear and defined stance, is an auto clicker macro allowed ? I have seen wildcard say "no" I have also seen a top streamer say it is allowed and you guys authorised it, whats the case ? can we get a clear and defined set of rules in these sort of situations...

I want this game to succeed and not just on a selfish level but because its unique but the stats don't lie and right now the player drain is huge its time you stepped up wildcard and either make a decision to start addressing the underlying issues above or maybe decide this was too soon for this game to be an esport

[Soprano]

Well said Stiffler, I'm pretty sure anyone who cares slightly about this game agrees.

[Rockette]

Great post, very good read.

[successxx]

1.  there's silence because SOTF interest on PC is dropping.   So lower demand, less incentive for devs to concentrate doing more for SOTF.  if it was a sleeper hit like WoW or something, then attention would shift, just like how H1Z1's battle royale is dominating H1Z1 survival interest, which caused developers to prioritize battle royale since that's the more popular of the two.  but in ARK's case,  SE is way more popular than SOTF.

 It might sound crazy, but overwatch only got the support is has because it's a day 1 mainstream success that released on 3 platforms at the sametime, it's open beta was also a success.     SOTF is still niche compared to it and exclusively on PC, so it can't gather as much numbers no matter how brilliant it is, because it's still somewhat of a early access game.

2.  that is true about lack of exposure, it's crazy keeping the archived twitch videos to twitch, and not bring them to youtube.  I wouldn't even know who Ghostwolfgames is and would not watch their videos if they didn't bring their videos for Youtube, and they have hundreds of SOTF vids and lots of videos (not pewdiepie a lot, but still more than your average streamer)  you can't have a esport rise up if you don't expose it on the most viewed channels, and youtube is at the very top, the very video source that helped make ARK SE popular.

3. ELO confuses me, but seems your ideas are better than how it is.

4. ah so I think you're saying you would like anonymous name for streamer so other players don't hunt for the streamer in particular? well that would make things better.  because identifying and sniping streamers is a type of harrassing and griefing.

5.  they should make the dinosaurs more threatening, yeah those flying things are not cool with how excessive they have to be dealt with.

6. well that comes with early access, so it doesn't seem SOTF is near being polished and optimized like ARK SE is planning to be this holiday season.

7. with the sea of information, people that wanna get better can research, yes the game should have effective ways to teach too, but those whiner gamers that complain about being killed 30 seconds in, don't even bother to read an instruction manual.  So the information and guides are out there, I don't think this is something the devs can fully solve since most expect to jump in and learn as they go.  tutorials are looked down upon by short attention span gamers, which make up the mainstream.

8.yea SOTF tournaments should be a weekly thing, but I think the devs are already stretched thin.  they already had to delay SOTF on PS4 so they can make sure ARK SE releases on PS4 this year.    for now they should concentrate on getting ARK SE to PS4 and ARK SE launch this holiday season because that honestly is what the majority are anticipating across all consoles.  yes xbox one had early access but there are those that are waiting for full launch.

or maybe decide this was too soon for this game to be an esport

Well there is different ways to look at it.   maybe they are confident they can somewhat keep momentum going with SOTF as an esport, while completing ARK SE and then turning more attention of SOTF afterwards since multiplatform ARK SE launch can greatly give them the new fans and profit to support SOTF more besides ARK SE.   

even though SOTF interest is dropping, maybe cutting the tournament prizes might seem like drop in morale to them.  either way, SOTF on consoles could give it a comeback and by then SOTF could be more polished and improved, and with ARK SE multiplatform success they would have a means to do more for SOTF.

PC platform has a lot of competition, but something like SOTF is brand new for consoles, so I think they know that ARK SE on consoles first, can generate a bigger fanbase and anticipation for the SOTF league.  they might be know that now, which could by why the PS4 team moved from SOTF to ARK SE to make that ready and gold in content for the holiday launch.

even if the PC scene can't be salvaged, SOTF could still prosper on console, just like star wars battlefront is still played more on PS4 than PC.  SOTF doesn't seem like the game that PC mainstream appreciate enough.  PC is oversaturated with mmorpgs and open world pvp games, on top of SOTF being early access,  some may feel its too soon to jump in, or its ideal platform and community has yet to have it.

I think if anything, since SE is more popular than SOTF, fans and perhaps devs could find ways for people to experience SOTF's last tribe stranding pvp on ARK SE, without the confinements of the dome and timer, for a much more hardcore experience that has both SE and SOTF strengths.  

[INFCTDxGAMR]

soo. i read this and i more a console player i bought a computer to play SOFT.. yupp just for that. i got a laptop lol it runs it i can play ok low settings ofcourse. but i can play. I got killed by bugs alot! lol hate them more aggressive than SE on XBX. now, PC survival games have been increasing as mentioned they have day z, 7 days to die? idk i dont play PC much, but yeah..

Now my firts game i went againts PRO people so the ELO (im guessing is like lvl or experience ) part has to NOT be reset! you must be playing against people with your same skill level! you cannot go agains a "Deki" like mentioned on you first games , its impossible to win. I know its not  a matchmaker like  COD or any other matchmaking game (that was the first one to come up, sorry) its a server pick but the ELO you have should limit you to certain servers where they have somewhat near yours and not going against new people. 

Also as usual, this needs to be released in XBX , SE is losing gamers that simple. the more and more i play the more i see servers dead. 

[thestiffler]

just to address point 1) successxx  wow was not a sleeper hit, no way no how no, it was the most hyped up release there has ever been overwatch was very hyped too you're somewhat missing the overall point, putting up a youtube video talking to the comminuty about what they are doing with competitive play was a very good move and easily something wildcard could do please don't try to confuse people into thinking I'm comparing them just suggesting that open discourse with your player group is a very positive thing with a recent and relevant example.

 

 

[Spur]

I agree with much of what you have said @thestiffler its really sad to see such an amazing game slowly die.

I think the sad truth is there isn't the man power or resources at WC to do whats needed in terms of marketing and development to make this a top esport. They are a business and i understand their focus on SE as that's a big revenue generator with new platforms/updates etc to be working on. If SOTF was the sole project of WC it could have been huge. 

The real question is whats the next step from WC and what is the end goal for SOTF. I cant see the survivor leagues continue for long at this rate but without any communication from the devs and numbers in decline. There are a lot of players here who will give feedback, ideas, whatever is required but it seems no one know one knows whats going on. I have stopped reporting bugs as i feel the posts just aren't looked at. I feel like the ship has sailed and the plug will be pulled if the china cup doesn't draw enough exposure. 

I sound very negative here but i suppose my point is we need to know what is next? are WC happy to keep going with it all with 1k concurrent players or will they attempt a big marketing push or some development and optimisation so more people can run the game? Do they plan on getting around to this when SE is further down the line or bring in a new team?

There are many ways to improve the situation but its a chicken and egg dilemma. whats coming first the player base or the development?

[thestiffler]

Please dedicate one guy to organise all this WC, you could clearly do it someone to be in "charge" of the esports arm and it to be their baby and down to them to push, interact with the community and be a bridge between you guys and the population here.... this game needs it, you need to engage with the community if you want this to succeed

I'm actually a turkey voting for Christmas here because as soon as the player numbers jump up the games going to be so competitive the top 40's will be a real struggle (as they should be).

 

[successxx]

well a way to save SOTF is to adapt its last tribe standing concept to ARK SE.  that way, people can organize a SOTF style template on SE,  without the dome and timer, and players would be able to have a more open world hardcore last tribe standing competition without restrictions and no rushing.     

maybe give the customizable ruleset template a mode name like Last Tribe Standing or something like that.  LTS would differ from SOTF in that instead of being an esport style, it would be SOTF in the open world ARK SE style.   and that session is over once the other tribes are eliminated (also when starting a session, players must start at level 1, and tribes could spawn together in separate parts of the island/center map).    there's lots of ways to salvage SOTF using ARK SE.  

[raphypwnz]

totally agree, well said sir!

[thestiffler]

So seasons over and the only other thing to add is boosting and teaming is almost totally out of control I don't even want to put a finger in the air and guestimate how many people are in the playoffs down to this shady stuff... but its a fair few in the running for money based on it

[Cisu]

Funny considering i've yet to see more than max of 2 teamers in the 4v4 category.

[Wilson]

Just stop debating about it, we're in a state where we have to wait for the devs to make a move, they're not reading they're not talking to us, its been going on for so long just give them time !

[thestiffler]

Watching guys who have teamed their way into the FFA tourney blatantly team again in the playoff game today was pretty disgusting and leaves quite the bitter taste.

That being said this tournament overall was a lot better, they still need to work out DILO to do with ending a 4's game though....

 

[Spur]

Sundays tournament looked to play out way way better with the new ring, i tested it (ran back to a smithy to grab some stuff in reality) and was really surprised at how deadly it is.

The new problem now however is in the 1 and 2mans the end ring is way too small. you wont be able to fight rex on rex without dipping in and out of the ring to turn around. Hopefully it wont be an issue in reality. 

[successxx]

if they want the twitch tournament vids to be watched, they should upload them to the official ARK Survival Evolved youtube channel where a lot more people would view those.   ARK SOTF isn't getting more attention having its vids exclusive to twitch.       a lot of esports games have their matches on youtube, and survivor league is the SOTF official tournament league, it makes no sense leaving those videos on twitch which isn't even watchable on some PCs.  

https://survivetheark.com/index.php?/articles.html/june-survivor-league-championship-and-summer-cup-semi-final-results-r272/

 

it's absurd they completely ignore youtube viewer populations.  it's like they want SOTF interest to drop and these tournaments to go unwatched.

[Narco Polo]

More than 2 million steam users added SotF to their account, half of them started the game at least once and around than 1k play at the same time. That's not even 0.05% of all owners.

Let more players know about it, download it and maybe try it, do you think many of them would stay? Take a look at the reviews...

[CyanicEmber]

I suspect that SotF is something that Wildcard just can't support as fully as it would like to at the current time. They are already giving everything they have to development of the main game. I'm sure after launch many of these problems will be addressed.

[Wilson]

It is simply not their number one priority : They are releasing the dev kit, they are having a new exciting total conversion completed by the end of the month. Sotf time will come, not now, but it will. 

[Spur]

only 560 people playing the game at the moment, I've been checking in on this out of curiosity recently and its not looking good I'm afraid. 

I really hope this game pulls through and gets the players it deserves.

If it doesn't i really want to look into a Mod for SE that would essentially make week long games, maybe a 7 day timer on an SE server that had respawns up until the last 2/3 hours could be the new form of the game. that with a slow ring in the last few hours to mid could be a mix of the game we all love and SE that is doing exceptionally well. 

[thestiffler]

I don't really think the absolute radio silence from the devs again on

1) is the ELO being left alone (I had Drake tell me during the events it wasn't being reset, but last time I had a dev say the same and it got reset)

2) The rumor going around that the "money" tournaments are over

is helping...

Until these points are clarified the game will be in a state of flux, also a huge portion of the playerbase is EU and the numbers at this time of the day are always 50% of the numbers by 8pm tonight

 

[ondrar]

Oh hey, another topic that will be ignored to oblivion... This game is dying as long as devs ignore the calling out from players, they will never have 5k+ players watching atleast that raptoring stream with 60k+ cash prizes.

Even if they just let one of the devs, talk to 10 other players on teamspeak, what should be changed, improved, removed, they would have 10 times solid game as they have now.

 

[Carnoguana]

The ring change has absolutely killed the player base. I used to have at least 4 hours a day on this game and now I haven't played but once since the ring change. All it did was kill the diversity. Seeing a Spino or Rex at the end of every match is lackluster. Also, they haven't added any new creatures/strategies to the game. Killing diversity to make the game better competitively (which only made it worse) has ruined this game. 

[successxx]

they can bounce back with SOTF improvements after ARK SE launches holiday 2016. before getting SOTF right, they have to get ARK SE right, out of alpha (content finalized), out of beta (content polished), and official gold launch on all 3 platforms.  

[Comanglia]

Just going to point out that SOTF is a really new game lead by a company that has 0 experience with competitive games. The fact they have tournaments with money at all is amazing plus it's based off a mod of a currently unfinished game.

Can WC be doing better? Yes, but expecting them to be at the same level as Blizzard with OW is egregious at best.