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Foundation Spamming


Shaliden
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Everquest Landmark had a 'clever' way to allow building, you placed a claim, which had limits as to size, boundaries (which gave a buffer zone to other claims) . Probably the most unique feature was the 'claim' punched a hole in 'game landscape', everything you placed was in it's own space and did not add to the main engine use, like a bubble, so it allowed for better memory usage and display, and less lag.

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2 hours ago, Castle117 said:

"lazy" isn't an insult just a method. i like lazy methods (simple).

Fair enough, gave me a real smile. Thanks for that additional explanation.

2 hours ago, Castle117 said:

yes, Rust is wiped once a month; this makes land grabs even more intense but manageable with the TC approach.

More intense, but conversely also less sustained. What we don't see in rust is people who spend many months building a beautiful (and sometimes) expansive base, nor do they have the need to tame a large number of animals that take up a lot of space, not to mention breeding programs for end-game (boss) content.

After reading your post I went an read a couple of primers on TC's and, while they seem suited to the kind of game Rust is I'm hard pressed to see that they would be an improvement in ARK over the existing system.

In Rust - need more space, build more TC's.

In ARK - need more space, put up more pillars/foundations

In Rust - TC's need to be maintained with resource costs or they decay and the building decays.

In ARK - have to visit all buildings, pillars & foundations or they auto-decay

Either way there is a tool that allows people to claim space, and a method for maintaining that space. I'm not seeing anything that makes TC's better than pillars, just a different way to accomplish the same basic objective.

 

And we have to reinforce the point that Rust doesn't have a pure PvE mode, if we compare Rust to ARK-PVP then it's basically a non-issue. In ARK it's not good enough to merely put up pillars, you also have to be able to defend them, which means it's a non-issue in PvP.

2 hours ago, Castle117 said:

i thought we were talking alternatives to pillar/ladder/foundation methods.

We are, and talking involves discussing the pro's and con's It involves asking questions about whether alternative methods actually offer real benefits or whether they're merely different without really making a difference.

2 hours ago, Castle117 said:

clearly some are not happy with how Ark and Conan Exiles handle land management.

You could say that about every game. There are always some people who are not happy about some aspects of every game.

The thing is, most of those complaints don't have alternatives that stand up to scrutiny. If you look past the surfacae level of the complaints, what most people are really complaining about is over-crowding in PvE. Their are tons of people who want to be able to build where they want to, and when they can't they blame the game mechanics rather than the simple fact that land is at a premium in ARK, especially in PvE.

And, quite frankly, most of these threads are started by people who are fairly inexperienced and don't understand both the pro's and con's of pillaring, they only understand that they're frustrated and want to be able to build somewhere they can't.

Let's just look at the opening and closing statements in the OP:

Opening - "There clearly should be some rules when it comes to this topic, whether it's Ark Survival Ascended or ark 2."

There already are rules, which the OP either didn't understand or ignored because they were able to build in a spot they wanted to. Beyond that, we later found out that the OP was on a PvP server where those rules don't apply anyway (if you want it, fight for it).

Closing - "I will believe the next 2 Ark games will be great and I will buy but.. spamming needs to stop. It's the legal equivalent to hackers."

That's obvously a silly argument. No, it's not the legal equivalent of hacking, that's an argument that shouldn't even need to be debunked.

 

 

It's perfectly legit to "be unhappy" about the system, as long as the person complaining fully understands the system being discussed and as long as they are arguing for the better interests of the whole player base, and not just grasping at straws that they think will make things better for themselves.

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4 hours ago, Castle117 said:

i thought we were talking alternatives to pillar/ladder/foundation methods. clearly some are not happy with how Ark and Conan Exiles handle land management. 

The topic of the thread per the OP was that pillar spamming has to stop.

Of course it has now devolved into how to solve it according to arm chair developers. A topic that has literally been discussed 100s if not 1000s of times. Oh well, go at it. But totally a waste of time. 

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41 minutes ago, wildbill said:

The topic of the thread per the OP was that pillar spamming has to stop.

Of course it has now devolved into how to solve it according to arm chair developers. A topic that has literally been discussed 100s if not 1000s of times. Oh well, go at it. But totally a waste of time. 

sadly, those conversations get ignored by new posters and or they just don't bother to search for them.  You are 100% correct, this conversation has been explored repeatedly.   Every solution has an opportunity cost.

...and WC couldn't even get the original game to a state that most people would call a functional product.  There are still dozens of bugs that are sizeable and will never be fixed.  

Odds are strong that many of the existing bugs will stick around for ASA, and we will have all new ones to deal with as well.  Procoptodons still drop babies out of their pouches if you leave render, did WC fix that? no.  What did they do instead?  They eventually released a different animal that can hold babies, and made that one work.  They ignored the original asset, and moved on.  Kind of like now with the creation of ASA.

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1 hour ago, Pipinghot said:

It's perfectly legit to "be unhappy" about the system, as long as the person complaining fully understands the system being discussed and as long as they are arguing for the better interests of the whole player base, and not just grasping at straws that they think will make things better for themselves.

as it stands pillar/ladder/foundation are needed. it keeps noobs from building on resources and allows us to stake out our  intended land needs. 

give us a land claim item to place and a tool to see where our land starts and ends. the land claim item could be small and the size of tribe limits the number that can be placed. GMs will still need to address the dbags that place land claim tags to  grief. 

over and out!

 

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13 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

Unless I've missed something, pillaring in ASA will work the same as it does in ASE. Is there some announcement I've overlooked?

Yeah - sarky reference to ASE maps being dropped in August .....
In terme of announcements - this is Wildcard that push a 50 gigabyte patch to fix the sound a beaver makes while eating. The announcements say very little, and mean even less (my opinion).

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2 hours ago, ItsCryogenic said:

I don’t believe that spamming is necessary a game ruining issue. In PVP spam is a crucial part of both defense and offense, in addition their isn’t a way necessarily that wild card can necessarily remove foundation spamming without causing downstream affects 

It's 100% a game ruining issiue in PVP. Clans spam 500 metal cliff plats all over the map. It effects animal and resource spawns. Aside from that it just looks awful and literally ruins the interesting landscape of a map.

I've seen servers where it's not just a cave entrance thats spammed, its almost the entire server covered in cliff plats and foundations.

It needs to go for ASA. Beautiful upgraded graphics mean nothing when the entire landscape is turned into an industrial wasteland with foundation/cliff spamming.

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As someone who plays on official pve and has done so for over 5 years, I definitely get the frustration on pillar/foundation spam, especially for new players to the game. Does it have legitimate reasons in some cases? Yes (protecting rare dino spawns, resources, keeping another player from blocking you in or building five inches from your front door, etc.

Is it also frequently done in a greedy grab for more land far beyond what a reasonable base (even allowing for eventual tek devices) requires? Or to pillar an entire region/coast just because established players don't *want* new players in their neighborhood? Also true.

I do agree that some structures like a camp fire or a sleeping bag should be allowed. That in itself would be a big help to new players until they can move inland to find a decent spot to build. Fjordur especially is hard when you're running trying to find a place you can put down a fire before you freeze to death.

But that's always going to be a key con against official pve servers. Many unofficial servers have rules against pillaring specifically to combat this issue (and unlike official servers many unofficial servers actually have gms/mods to enforce their rules in a timely fashion).

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3 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

It needs to go for ASA.

But you know it's going to stay, right?  I don't mean that in an argumentative way, you have the right to dislike it. Any discussion on these forums of pillaring is basically a hypothetical debate between players, you're aware that WC has zero intentions of changing the land claiming mechanics in ASA, yes?

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16 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

But you know it's going to stay, right?  I don't mean that in an argumentative way, you have the right to dislike it. Any discussion on these forums of pillaring is basically a hypothetical debate between players, you're aware that WC has zero intentions of changing the land claiming mechanics in ASA, yes?

Its too bad really. System with more land restriction on valuable areas and pathways + 2-3 flags per tribe (could be account bound somehow to avoid creating fake aliances) would be better in my opinion. 

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8 hours ago, CatInFire said:

Its too bad really. System with more land restriction on valuable areas and pathways + 2-3 flags per tribe (could be account bound somehow to avoid creating fake aliances) would be better in my opinion. 

You can think so, but have you played Atlas? They attempted to do just that. It failed miserably. This might work in some games (although I've never played one of those types), but for some reason (you can read about it in over 100 posts in this forum) it just doesn't work in ARK.

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1 hour ago, wildbill said:

You can think so, but have you played Atlas? They attempted to do just that. It failed miserably. This might work in some games (although I've never played one of those types), but for some reason (you can read about it in over 100 posts in this forum) it just doesn't work in ARK.

I have played it, but only on private server. 

Could be different approach to it as well, with the size of territory you can have. So you only can built on x m per map ( could also be account bound tribe settings) 

I guess there is many different options on how it could be done, but i also doubt that the current system will change. That would require WC actually doing something and not just copying it from modders 😅

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he builds a lot of bases on pve, there are small bases and huge ones.  In no case would I want a settlement next to my base that is building a huge building for two dodos.  There is also something called a structure reading area.  Would you like to have a similar base next to you with e.g. 250 dinos on the catwalk?  Good luck with the delay.  That's why pillars are also used in pve not only to protect dinosaur spawns or resources.  And the care of the area is also in our hands, we have to refresh it regularly, which with extensive bases takes up to 5 hours.  But this is the mode I chose.

 

 

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On 4/19/2023 at 7:56 PM, Pipinghot said:

But you know it's going to stay, right?  I don't mean that in an argumentative way, you have the right to dislike it. Any discussion on these forums of pillaring is basically a hypothetical debate between players, you're aware that WC has zero intentions of changing the land claiming mechanics in ASA, yes?

Probably not but ASA is 4 and a half months away. A lot can happen in that time. Not like they've said its set in stone either. 

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4 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

Probably not but ASA is 4 and a half months away. A lot can happen in that time. Not like they've said its set in stone either. 

Ya, a lot will happen, like getting it to work is probably a huge task. Making improvements to the game other than the port and optimizations related to moving to ASA are probably way down on their list.

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28 minutes ago, wildbill said:

Ya, a lot will happen, like getting it to work is probably a huge task. Making improvements to the game other than the port and optimizations related to moving to ASA are probably way down on their list.

Maybe they'll pop some focal chili, get to business, and surprise us. They did say there will be new structures so the building is at least getting some attention if not a complete overhaul. 

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On 4/19/2023 at 12:04 AM, DirkInSA said:

Maybe a stupid question - you have incoming ports forwarded to your server IP (you know its a minimum of 3 udp ports / map being served: One query port & two adjacent data ports), but can the server actually reply out to the WWW. In other words does your global firewall freely allow traffic out from you server to the WAN?
CS and (current version) Ark use very different networking so getting a CS server running will not necessarily mean that "all is well". From memory CS does NOT need 3 open ports? And it does not use the "Steam" networking stack - it handles it's own client / server stuff.
Also, from my experience, trying to run Ark on a "non-standard" set of ports (like in 50 000 range for e.g.) does NOT play well with Ark's server browser. I have had success with this set of ports - outside of that range Ark goes a bit pear shaped. (2 Data 1 Query)
7789:7790  26900
7791:7792   26901
7793:7794  26902
7795:7796  26903
7797:7798  26904
7799:7800  26905

DirkinSA in a post Jan 2022 (now locked) you posted about ports and servers, just wanted to say it solved an issue I have been troubleshooting for days and days, so THANK You for that post, solved my problem!

 

Now everyone go back to spamming...

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6 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

Probably not but ASA is 4 and a half months away. A lot can happen in that time. Not like they've said its set in stone either. 

They haven't said anything about it which, by default, means that they're not even thinking about changing it. It actually is written in stone unless WC actually says anything about it, as long as they're silent on this topic you can guarantee it's not changing.

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On 4/19/2023 at 4:00 PM, St1ckyBandit said:

It's 100% a game ruining issiue in PVP. Clans spam 500 metal cliff plats all over the map. It effects animal and resource spawns. Aside from that it just looks awful and literally ruins the interesting landscape of a map.

I've seen servers where it's not just a cave entrance thats spammed, its almost the entire server covered in cliff plats and foundations.

It needs to go for ASA. Beautiful upgraded graphics mean nothing when the entire landscape is turned into an industrial wasteland with foundation/cliff spamming.

Pillars are so easy to get rid of in pvp, just get an arthro (one of the easiest tames in ark) and start eating all their pillars. Some pillaring around the pillarer’s base will remain due to turrets but that stops them from getting surrounded by someone else’s pillars.

Also for y’all complaining about pve bobs building on metal and whatnot, just play on a server with that funny little checkbox that stops people from building on mountains. (Not currently at my pc and I can’t remember what the name of that setting is.) Or just use the simple spawners no build zone things that an admin can set up. For official you’re just out of luck, but why even play pve official anyway?

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8 minutes ago, SarraceniaUser said:

Also for y’all complaining about pve bobs building on metal and whatnot, just play on a server with that funny little checkbox that stops people from building on mountains

People aren't usually worried about metal. It's everywhere. It's rare things like giga spawns and beaver dams (on official, some prefer those).

Edited by Joebl0w13
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2 hours ago, SarraceniaUser said:

Pillars are so easy to get rid of in pvp, just get an arthro (one of the easiest tames in ark) and start eating all their pillars. Some pillaring around the pillarer’s base will remain due to turrets but that stops them from getting surrounded by someone else’s pillars.

Also for y’all complaining about pve bobs building on metal and whatnot, just play on a server with that funny little checkbox that stops people from building on mountains. (Not currently at my pc and I can’t remember what the name of that setting is.) Or just use the simple spawners no build zone things that an admin can set up. For official you’re just out of luck, but why even play pve official anyway?

Not sure where you found any mention of pillars in my post but maybe I need to adjust my bifocals.

Good luck eating 100s of metal cliff plats with an arthro on an active pvp server. Im sure no one will bother you for the days on end that would take.

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