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Will ARK 2 be a Flop or Hit ?


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7 minutes ago, Rackham59 said:

 

Surely a Flop, with this restriction to the 3rd person, limiting immersion... Without me if it's confirmed ///

There are tons of games that are restricted to 3rd person that don't flop. People need to stop claiming ARK 2 will flop based strictly on an ARK player perspective.

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It's really impossible to tell without seeing the actual gameplay to at least get a sense of it. I do think for all intends and purposes it will be a totally different game, which is a risk of course. 

As for the choice to make it locked in 3rd person it has it's pro and cons and depends highly on the mechanics. 3rd person works better for hand to hand combat, while first person works better for ranged combat. Something like HZD has a great mix of both. 3rd person also makes character customisation a much more enjoyable worthwhile thing for the player because your character is always visible on screen, whereas in 1st person it's pretty much irrelevant. 

Now for exploring a world, 1rst person is certainly much more immersive. Overall, in my opinion at least, it would have been better to keep it in 1st person and only go to 3rd person when you equip a hand to hand weapon (in a similar way to when you ride a dino it switches over). That way it still allows for that new combat system but also keeps that immersion factor during exploration and cave combat intact. 

Anyways, I suspect one of the big reasons for the long delays might be down to feedback they're getting from whatever alpha version they're testing, so who knows if they end up changing the design before release. 

Overall, I thing the game is too far off release to even bother speculating without at least seeing a lot of actual gameplay footage

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Soul like game?

I didn't know what is soul like game so i paid one - Elden Ring.

I did 30 hours of game play plus many hours of learning on you tube

And I'm pissed and sorry i lost money and so many hours on that.

Its bad  with avatar controls on PC, is bad with story, is bad as difficulty.

And is boring.

Deleted game.

So is that we are waiting for with ark 2 ?

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18 hours ago, Noa said:

Soul like game?

I didn't know what is soul like game so i paid one - Elden Ring.

I did 30 hours of game play plus many hours of learning on you tube

And I'm pissed and sorry i lost money and so many hours on that.

Its bad  with avatar controls on PC, is bad with story, is bad as difficulty.

And is boring.

Deleted game.

So is that we are waiting for with ark 2 ?

lol it is game of the year for 2022 if you cant play it yet everyone else can....stick to ark 1 i guess XD

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10 hours ago, DeliaHaze20 said:

lol it is game of the year for 2022 if you cant play it yet everyone else can....stick to ark 1 i guess XD

He he you guess.  PVE only here. Im level 156. I come to that level by doing  boring nonsense. And ark avatar max level now is 205. Only way to gain xp is killing thousands giga and carcha babies and that is boring too.  Like log in, do meat run, make gigas and carchas mating, put eggs in incubator and log off nothing else to do.

Btw i played many other games like lineage 2 in time it was on subscription but after few years ncsoft changed it inti free to play (pay to win + loot boxes and other gambling), i played also tera, lost ark and many single player games too. Dont know if they are  "soul like" but playing "game of the year for 2022" my hand get hurt by constantly pulling down with mouse as controls are soo bad that you have hard time to see floor as game  move avatar view up as you walking. Disabling all auto setings dont help. Binding is not existing. To call horse you need to use both hands - holding E for few sec and then press arrow and similar lol.

We wait second postponement already for Ark 2 and im afraid to get product like "garbage of the year for 2022-Elden Ring"

Edited by Noa
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On 2/28/2023 at 9:08 AM, Noa said:

Soul like game?

I didn't know what is soul like game so i paid one - Elden Ring.

I did 30 hours of game play plus many hours of learning on you tube

And I'm pissed and sorry i lost money and so many hours on that.

Its bad  with avatar controls on PC, is bad with story, is bad as difficulty.

And is boring.

Deleted game.

So is that we are waiting for with ark 2 ?

 

On 3/1/2023 at 10:16 AM, Noa said:

He he you guess.  PVE only here. Im level 156. I come to that level by doing  boring nonsense. And ark avatar max level now is 205. Only way to gain xp is killing thousands giga and carcha babies and that is boring too.  Like log in, do meat run, make gigas and carchas mating, put eggs in incubator and log off nothing else to do.

Btw i played many other games like lineage 2 in time it was on subscription but after few years ncsoft changed it inti free to play (pay to win + loot boxes and other gambling), i played also tera, lost ark and many single player games too. Dont know if they are  "soul like" but playing "game of the year for 2022" my hand get hurt by constantly pulling down with mouse as controls are soo bad that you have hard time to see floor as game  move avatar view up as you walking. Disabling all auto setings dont help. Binding is not existing. To call horse you need to use both hands - holding E for few sec and then press arrow and similar lol.

We wait second postponement already for Ark 2 and im afraid to get product like "garbage of the year for 2022-Elden Ring"

Some things you might want to know about Elden Ring to give it context on how it's called Game of the Year, and why you might not fear too much about ARK 2 being like it:

On controls: From Software, the developer of Elden Ring and the Souls games, does not bother to make sure the game is more than "mostly functional" for Keyboard+Mouse. The PC version of Dark Souls even warns against using anything other than a controller, though pretty much any type of controller will work, doesn't have to be an XBOX/PS one. FYI, this is more or less the norm for many games made by Japanese developers, and there are a few other games on PC that often garner a lot of praise and have a similar issue, like the Monster Hunter and Yakuza/Like A Dragon series. (BTW, I love all three of them, but I'm not going to say you're wrong for not like Elden Ring, or dis the other games without making a better effort to bow to the glory that is KBAM.)

On Story: Supposedly, the storytelling and lore for From Software's Souls/Bloodborne/Elden Ring game is inspired by the Lead Designers experiences of reading terribly done translations of fantasy epics like Lord of the Rings as a kid and then letting his imagination run wild trying to fill in the blanks created by said bad translations. All their games have sometimes significant lore or even plot points that are left largely unsaid or up to the player's interpretation based on what little lore is clearly given through dialog and/or item descriptions. If the initial breadcrumbs and world you've seen entices you, it can be quite effective in drawing you in, but if not it can seem like terrible writing with major plot holes that are never explained.

On Difficulty and being "Souls-like": Obviously the controls were a major impediment, but it's worth noting that "Souls-like" has almost lost meaning, becoming less about describing games that plays like Dark Souls and more about a game that has (or at least, claims to have) Harsh-yet-fair difficulty that punishes mistakes and mindless button-mashing but rewards patience, timing, and perseverance. I mean, if you look up games with the "Souls-like" tag on Steam, 3 of the top 10 suggestions are Hollow Knight (a Metroidvania) Dead Cells (a rougelike) and Wild Hearts (a Monster Hunter-esque game) None of which, I assure you, play anything like Elden Ring.

With all that said, if I were to point to an example of a third person survival craft/sandbox with "Souls-like" gameplay in the broad way it's typically used, the very first thing that comes to mind (at least, that I've actually played) is Valheim. At the very least, it is an example that yes, you can make an all-3rd person survival game that won't have you swearing at the computer because of how often the angle throws off your aim.

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1 hour ago, Foefaller said:

 

Some things you might want to know about Elden Ring to give it context on how it's called Game of the Year, and why you might not fear too much about ARK 2 being like it:

On controls: From Software, the developer of Elden Ring and the Souls games, does not bother to make sure the game is more than "mostly functional" for Keyboard+Mouse. The PC version of Dark Souls even warns against using anything other than a controller, though pretty much any type of controller will work, doesn't have to be an XBOX/PS one. FYI, this is more or less the norm for many games made by Japanese developers, and there are a few other games on PC that often garner a lot of praise and have a similar issue, like the Monster Hunter and Yakuza/Like A Dragon series. (BTW, I love all three of them, but I'm not going to say you're wrong for not like Elden Ring, or dis the other games without making a better effort to bow to the glory that is KBAM.)

On Story: Supposedly, the storytelling and lore for From Software's Souls/Bloodborne/Elden Ring game is inspired by the Lead Designers experiences of reading terribly done translations of fantasy epics like Lord of the Rings as a kid and then letting his imagination run wild trying to fill in the blanks created by said bad translations. All their games have sometimes significant lore or even plot points that are left largely unsaid or up to the player's interpretation based on what little lore is clearly given through dialog and/or item descriptions. If the initial breadcrumbs and world you've seen entices you, it can be quite effective in drawing you in, but if not it can seem like terrible writing with major plot holes that are never explained.

On Difficulty and being "Souls-like": Obviously the controls were a major impediment, but it's worth noting that "Souls-like" has almost lost meaning, becoming less about describing games that plays like Dark Souls and more about a game that has (or at least, claims to have) Harsh-yet-fair difficulty that punishes mistakes and mindless button-mashing but rewards patience, timing, and perseverance. I mean, if you look up games with the "Souls-like" tag on Steam, 3 of the top 10 suggestions are Hollow Knight (a Metroidvania) Dead Cells (a rougelike) and Wild Hearts (a Monster Hunter-esque game) None of which, I assure you, play anything like Elden Ring.

With all that said, if I were to point to an example of a third person survival craft/sandbox with "Souls-like" gameplay in the broad way it's typically used, the very first thing that comes to mind (at least, that I've actually played) is Valheim. At the very least, it is an example that yes, you can make an all-3rd person survival game that won't have you swearing at the computer because of how often the angle throws off your aim.

Counterpoint. 

I don’t care about the Elden Ring story as I didn’t like the gameplay. So the story was moot to me.

I personally hate “Souls like” combat. So I won’t like another game that’s emulating it. 

Just one persons opinion. There might be more like me. We might be the minority. Only gameplay and sales will tell.

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8 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Counterpoint. 

I don’t care about the Elden Ring story as I didn’t like the gameplay. So the story was moot to me.

I personally hate “Souls like” combat. So I won’t like another game that’s emulating it. 

Just one persons opinion. There might be more like me. We might be the minority. Only gameplay and sales will tell.

Well, as I said, "Souls like" has become a pretty broad description nowadays. It might mean "plays like Elden Ring," but it could also simply mean "melee fighting with a spear will now involve more than spamming left click and praying it doesn't randomly break too many times" or "you have a dodge roll now."

..and I'm not saying you're wrong for not liking Elden Ring. Every game has players that don't like playing it no matter how popular it is.

Edited by Foefaller
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11 hours ago, Foefaller said:

 

Some things you might want to know about Elden Ring to give it context on how it's called Game of the Year, and why you might not fear too much about ARK 2 being like it:

On controls: From Software, the developer of Elden Ring and the Souls games, does not bother to make sure the game is more than "mostly functional" for Keyboard+Mouse. The PC version of Dark Souls even warns against using anything other than a controller, though pretty much any type of controller will work, doesn't have to be an XBOX/PS one. FYI, this is more or less the norm for many games made by Japanese developers, and there are a few other games on PC that often garner a lot of praise and have a similar issue, like the Monster Hunter and Yakuza/Like A Dragon series. (BTW, I love all three of them, but I'm not going to say you're wrong for not like Elden Ring, or dis the other games without making a better effort to bow to the glory that is KBAM.)

What surprised me with controls that as soon auto or manually you target anything your avatar get glued and bond on that target and can not freely move unless you manage ( if you remember in time ) to un target. That was first game with system that if you target anything you are f###d at least on PC.

Well seeing pic of weapons thing Ark 2 will be great.

But cant think to be able to "soul like" back stab giga and one hit kill it.

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My prediction - ARK 2 will do a slow-flop after many patch attempts to fix issues and appease players in an attempt to draw more sales/interest, then eventually SW will release a 're-mastered' version of ARK 1, incorporating a ton of new features, better graphics, and some new DLC maps etc... is been the way of gaming sequels like this for some time now..lol

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As great as both Ark's general idea, and Souls style combat is, I personally feel it would be a definite flop. The idea is fantastic but being Microsoft exclusive for the first year is a massive turn-off as a PlayStation player, the current state of the servers, lag, glitches, support etc is pretty poor for a company who've had many, many years working on the same project.

 

I wish them all the best with Ark 2 but I feel those with an aversion to Souls style combat, who've been burned by Wildcard, who own a PS5, or even who don't want to abandon thousands of hours of work will probably at the very least hold off purchasing on release.

 

I know amongst my friends it's very much a case of feeling were playing more because we don't want to lose the time played, than because we feel any loyalty to the brand or Wildcard, in fact, were playing more in spite of them.

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I have been hosting ark now for some time. Four or five years I think. Currently I have three Linux servers supporting a 12 map cluster IE all the DLCs and original.
As such I have purchased all content and played many thousands of hours.

I am a little concerned about the initial release only being for Xbox which I don't own and am unlikely to ever own any gaming console. Now can't I play on mobile (if it eventuates) due to poor eyesight.

Released for PC probably means released for Microsoft. I can play using Microsoft product but cannot afford to host due to the extreme cost of their server product bound by RAM requirements per session.

I have seen nothing to alleviate my concerns in this regard so I will most likely put off any purchase for some time.

I will however keep hosting the original game (with out updates I suppose) providing nothing is done to prevent it.

Edited by AussieRob
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4 hours ago, AussieRob said:

I have been hosting ark now for some time. Four or five years I think. Currently I have three Linux servers supporting a 12 map cluster IE all the DLCs and original.
As such I have purchased all content and played many thousands of hours.

I am a little concerned about the initial release only being for Xbox which I don't own and am unlikely to ever own any gaming console. Now can't I play on mobile (if it eventuates) due to poor eyesight.

Released for PC probably means released for Microsoft. I can play using Microsoft product but cannot afford to host due to the extreme cost of their server product bound by RAM requirements per session.

I have seen nothing to alleviate my concerns in this regard so I will most likely put off any purchase for some time.

I will however keep hosting the original game (with out updates I suppose) providing nothing is done to prevent it.

The game is already available for wishlisting on steam. It'll be coming out on Steam as well as the Windows storefront.

Additionally, given the mod support and integration platform being advertised from day one I'd say there is a solid chance you will be able to continue hosting unofficial servers yourself.

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6 hours ago, AussieRob said:

I am a little concerned about the initial release only being for Xbox which I don't own and am unlikely to ever own any gaming console. Now can't I play on mobile (if it eventuates) due to poor eyesight.

Released for PC probably means released for Microsoft.

It's being released in Early Access initially for Xbox (XSX/S) and Steam.

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So early days of Ark, since I've been play since just before early release, were hard and challenging, however we could overcome just about everything the game hit us with.  We had Coliseums for duels and shoulder pet wars.  We had agreed battles between various tribe with agreed on winnings and losses.   Life was tough, but the game was fun and enjoyable.  We had a community that we could work together and build bigger and better world.

Then came the invasion form the east, player the didn't share the values of the locals nor any languages.   Many many greifers came raiding just to destroy months of work in a matter of hours of even minutes.   I has even been seen that a VERY LARGE portion of these players were being given support from their governments just to create mayham.  Banning did not work they just logged another account, they even had GMs (gamemasters) that had weaseled into the company support to aid them.  So began the megatribe wars.  

While it was and has been good that wildcard focused on game design the MAIN BIG area they have failed completely is to find a way to keep the players that WANT to PvP from attacking the players that NEED to play the actual game.   On the unofficial server there is rules and ways to protect yourself.   Way the community has shown works.  Inventions Like Offline Raid Protection aka ORP shields.  Other games have had PvP penalty where the more you attack others the easier it is for others to retaliate and take you out.  Or agree warfare where two party or tribes issue attack messages and WHEN AGREED ON then they fight with no penalty.  

Those of us that just wanted to play the game tried to go to PvE Servers only to be attacked even more and corralled with structures we couldn't break all over our base areas.  WHOLE MAPS covered in structures made useless.  We tried to hide in caves and any cover we could find only to have the game devs make those spots more dangerous.   To play the game your had to find the deepest darkest hole to hide in or join the biggest baddest group around.   Yet with everybody now at each others throat and players sneaking into tribes to backstab or even kick whole tribes, nobody could trust anyone.  Even tribes that ony kept the most loyal players with the strongest arsenal fell, either to hackers stealing accounts since they couldn't attack them legit or even have a GM wipe the tribe for random mass of fake complaints.

One thing is for sure is that Ark Two NEEDS to have STRICT boundaries on what players can do to each other.  Simple things like a battle request option for tribes, PvP player setting in game, Offline Raid Protection so that PvP it actually Active Player versus Present Player.   These are the type of things that we kind of been needing in the original Ark and really we be necessary for Ark Two to not make the same mistakes allover again (I think I hear the thoughts from a Jurassic world character saying something along this line)

The game greatness come from its ability to do so much and feel like your immersed in the environment of the worlds of Ark.  I play Ark 45% desktop 1st person, 35% 1st person VR, 20% 3rd person.  For me and many of the players I talked to over the years 3rd person is like turning your head to check behind you, around a corner, or to help place and object.  For me it is mainly to make up for the fact that in ark in order to do these things in 1st person you have to literally turn around your entire character.   If Ark Two tries to do third person ONLY that's it gameover, most the main core of the Ark fandom will be lost.  Games where you have to pull tricky feats to get over obstacles is where 3rd person shines, but when you need to aim down a sight focus on what is in front of you and keep running you need 1st person.   Games where the immersive nature of the environment and your inclusion into that world is where the focus and strength of the game lies is when FIRST Person gameplay TRULY Shines. 

The biggest move WildCard could do is to make sure that Ark Two is fully VR capable.   While I can some others play Ark in VR we are doing it through skills we have to set it up in ways OUTSIDE of the Ark program.  Ark did try to have VR support towards the beginning of the VR Boom, but the game system just was not capable to do keep it stable.  VR also had a LONG way to go at that point.  Nowdays the tech for VR is much more mature and capable and a new system design with the newer tech should be able to handle it ALOT easier.   Yet for Ark Two to be playable in VR you mainly need a 1st person view point.  

The only way a think 3rd person can be done on Ark and keep everyone happy is to allow the players to pick where the camera's point of view is mainly locked to.   So if the players is doing stuff the game devs think hey the camera needs to be here for this to look and work right okay the camera pops to the correct location.   However the rest of the time the camera should be where the PLAYER NEEDS it to be for their feel and their immersion into the environment they're playing in. 

We the players are the ones that put our time into working in the Ark environments.  To Explore, Create, and Overcome the Ark worlds we just need the tools fit to our needs.  If we can position the camera so we can see the world the way that suits our purpose the best it would be the best tool we could get.   The Game Devs make the world, but we are the ones that decide if that world is fit and has what we need to enjoy it the way we would want.   Without the players being able to choose how to look at what they are doing the game is just another prince of persia or souls copycat.   ARKS greatness is in its Immersion of an artistic mastery of environments and OUR Survival  in these Worlds.   The only question remaining Is "Will Mark and WildCard let us have what we have had all along or take away from us what made Ark great for their own desires?"

 

Hanging On A thread of Hope, Arachia 20,000 hours in ark!

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Depends a lot on how good the building systems are. Most other survival games have better building systems imo, which is a shame because this game gets so much else right. I find myself fighting the building system constantly instead of enjoying it, and base building is such a key part of the overall experience. Great building will make for a great game.

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Well I hate to say I told you so but I told you so. 2024 is the new release date and late 2024 at that. Which I think we all know means 2025. I don't have a Xbox one series x yet anyway so I couldn't really care. But it's just nice to know I was right from day 1. Not to sound too smug. Lovely big smug me😊

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2 hours ago, Hurebhsdyrgsg said:

Well I hate to say I told you so but I told you so. 2024 is the new release date and late 2024 at that. Which I think we all know means 2025. I don't have a Xbox one series x yet anyway so I couldn't really care. But it's just nice to know I was right from day 1. Not to sound too smug. Lovely big smug me😊

Honestly Im not surprised either. Creating a game {which ark 2 sounds to be a "new" game} takes years.....Like literal years, to develop. Yeah, the URE 5 has a lot of pre made assets, and ark 1 laid all of the groundwork. But when your unfamiliar with all of the new assets and toss off the groundwork to go in a new direction, well.....Its literally re-inventing the wheel and as such, its gonna take time. 

At least they finally admitted the reality.

Edited by wizard03
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