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We Need More Transparency With Enforcement


Tylanater
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4 hours ago, GrumpyBear said:

I'm biting my tongue not saying any of it out loud, but it was one of the most common issues we had to deal with in the first couple years of the game.  These cheaters were making the servers completely unplayable, now they are just mildly unplayable for the most part.  Night and day, from how it was back then.  I do not want to return to those dark days.

It's much worse than it's ever been before. A snail games employee leaked the source code of the game and since then the cheaters can do crazy stuff. They are currently using speedhack, orientation hacks, desync hacks where you are frozen in place but they are not, they are body soaking turrets with this desync stuff cause the turrets still shoot them even though server side they are not actually there. It's never been even as close to as bad as this.

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14 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

It's not my fault you can't keep up.

Als ik deze discussie in mijn eigen taal ga voeren hou jij het ook niet bij, bijdehandje ;)

No use even trying to keep up with your assumptions about me not having paid attention to certain discussions. Clearly you did not read what I said there: Good information will reduce the ammount of false reports.
We see things just very different and it is a waste of my time to edit that wall of text point by point.

So I'll admit defeat, overlord of twisting words.

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On 7/17/2022 at 2:44 AM, Joebl0w13 said:

To people playing the game legitimately. None of it should matter.

It does matter. It can make the difference between giving up reporting bugs or trying to make an accurate report, between another false cheater claim or a valid one.

"Need to know" is a sign of weakness and arrogance. Maybe transparency is wasted on the masses or abused by a few but is that a valid reason to treat the interested users that are of good will like they are the wrongdoers?

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7 hours ago, MMaas said:

Als ik deze discussie in mijn eigen taal ga voeren hou jij het ook niet bij, bijdehandje ;)

LoL, good one, genuinely funny response.

Joking aside though, we both know that's not what's happening here. The root of this disagreement is not a language barrier, it's indulging in wishful thinking about how things work while at the same time ignoring, or being unaware of, what happens when a company gives out too much information about exploits they have fixed. We could have this discussion in any language on the planet and the problem with your wishful thinking would still be the same problem.

7 hours ago, MMaas said:

No use even trying to keep up with your assumptions about me not having paid attention to certain discussions.

It wasn't an assumption, it was a reasonable conclusion based on your response. Whether you're speaking Dutch or English those an assumption and a reasonable conclusion are still two different things. Playing the language card isn't going to change that.

7 hours ago, MMaas said:

Clearly you did not read what I said there: Good information will reduce the ammount of false reports.

Now you're just making false accusations that can easily be disproved. Of course I read it, because I directly answered it, an answer that you didn't like. First you complain that I use too many words when I answer, now you pretend that I didn't answer at all. You're not arguing in good faith, now you're just trying to "score points" by dodging back and forth between different accusations.

If you want to be honest then stop whining about how I post and at least have the courtesy to disagree honestly.

7 hours ago, MMaas said:

We see things just very different and it is a waste of my time to edit that wall of text point by point.

We do see things differently, and that's ok, as long as you disagree honestly and don't waste everyone's time with false accusations and nonsense arguments. Complaining about too many words or how someone organizes their answers are not honest arguments. In any language "wall of text" translates into "can't think of a good counter-argument so I'm going to try a nonsense attack instead".

7 hours ago, MMaas said:

So I'll admit defeat, overlord of twisting words.

Nope, no twisting of words, you just don't like what I have to say.

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12 hours ago, MMaas said:

It does matter. It can make the difference between giving up reporting bugs or trying to make an accurate report, between another false cheater claim or a valid one.

"Need to know" is a sign of weakness and arrogance. Maybe transparency is wasted on the masses or abused by a few but is that a valid reason to treat the interested users that are of good will like they are the wrongdoers?

For every 1 person who files a very accurate and actionable report, they must get 100 that are just complete nonsense and in various languages and google translations.   

Wasn't it just the day before this thread began , someone posted a thread about a cheater being level 139?   

I wouldn't doubt half the people who report speed hacking are reporting players who pumped their run speed up to 200%.   I know people do that, cus I have 2 tribemates that love to spend their points on run speed.  I know speedhacks exist in lots of games, but I would argue, not everyone who reports knows the difference between actual game mechanics and hacks.  

Edited by GrumpyBear
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5 hours ago, GrumpyBear said:

I wouldn't doubt half the people who report speed hacking are reporting players who pumped their run speed up to 200%

If it was just speed hacked players it wouldn't be that bad, it's pts, wyverns, etc. Stuff that can't be leveled in speed. It's very obvious. Also stegos are very popular speed hack candidates to run to a back of a cave nearly invincible. 

Edited by Tylanater
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10 minutes ago, Tylanater said:

If it was just speed hacked players it wouldn't be that bad, it's pts, wyverns, etc. Stuff that can't be leveled in speed. It's very obvious. Also stegos are very popular speed hack candidates to run to a back of a cave nearly invincible. 

You miss the point entirely.  With every legitimate report,  there is a few very new players who see something they can’t do and think it’s a hack.

 

Lots of us would know it when we see it,  but WC gets reports from all types,  including the dunces.

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There once was a company called Taco Bell.  A long time ago they made lots of people sick.  They said it was probably the green onions,  but they weren’t ‘100% sure’ that was it -  so they removed them from use on the menu items just in case.   Green onions never returned to their food items.   
 

What nobody noticed was,  right as the green onions disappeared,  all the silverware was now packaged and not free to grab from a less than hygienic bucket.  And before people got all sick, all the items with green onions on the menu were served with forks.

 

Oddly enough,  several months after this happened.  I was doing some work for a family who got rich from backing a restaurant chain that blew up and sold it off to a huge worldwide brand.   They retained a couple restaurants and still had a need for plastic silverware.

So they told me a story about how they came about finding a supplier for plastic silverware. They knew someone from Taco Bell who gave them the info on their Chinese supplier.  They went out to this factory in china to see it for themselves.

they checked the factory out and it was nice and clean.  But they noticed there was no bathrooms… see where this is going?   They asked how do the workers use the restroom?  The manager said his workers were the best ,  they never took a break.  Not even for the bathroom.   On the extremely unlikely event someone would need to ,  there was a hole in the back of the shop…. No hand wash station,  just a hole.

long story shorter,  they took samples ,  sent them back to a lab.. the bacterial counts on the samples were off the charts. Needless to say it, but I will, they did not begin a working relationship with this particular supplier.

 

who here thinks Taco Bell was less than honest about why people got sick?

 

Edited by GrumpyBear
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8 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

I love these we need the devs to do x,y,z posts.

After 6 years, they never get old.

Even if it's the same thread you've been reading for 6 years. Over and over again.

I mean that's one of the big reasons wildcard has so much bad will. In the end it's up to them if they don't want to address easy to fix issues in the community. The game has the worst transparency in regards to enforcement relative to all their peers. I'm not sure how this is something worth defending?

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2 hours ago, Tylanater said:

I mean that's one of the big reasons wildcard has so much bad will. In the end it's up to them if they don't want to address easy to fix issues in the community. The game has the worst transparency in regards to enforcement relative to all their peers. I'm not sure how this is something worth defending?

And? Their sales don't seem to reflect bad will and transparency doesn't seem to enter the equation.

"You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run"

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8 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

And? Their sales don't seem to reflect bad will and transparency doesn't seem to enter the equation.

If you don't believe there's massive bad will in the pvp community and that transparency is a big part of that then I'm not going to argue with you. I think it's plainly obvious to those that play pvp and huge threat to ark 2.

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1 minute ago, Tylanater said:

If you don't believe there's massive bad will in the pvp community and that transparency is a big part of that then I'm not going to argue with you. I think it's plainly obvious to those that play pvp and huge threat to ark 2.

Given that most of the player base is PVE, I'm not sure how much of a threat this is to Ark 2. Time will tell I suppose.

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3 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Given that most of the player base is PVE, I'm not sure how much of a threat this is to Ark 2. Time will tell I suppose.

Majority is pve now, with a huge portion still being pvp. If the pvp completely flops in Ark 2 it will be bad for the game and I think pvp players are not going to put up with as much this time around. The potential pvp is much larger but most non cheaters are done with ark 1 at this point, on PC at least, console pvp is actually still pretty good. Look at the top 10 games on steam, they are all pvp or have a huge aspect of pvp to them.

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10 minutes ago, Tylanater said:

Look at the top 10 games on steam, they are all pvp or have a huge aspect of pvp to them.

Completely different games for the most part. Designed for PVP and nothing more than PVP really.

Ark is there as well, with a mostly PVE player base so...

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14 minutes ago, Pipinghot said:

No, they don't, a point which you keep missing or ignoring.

The communications from WC on this topic are completely normal for the games industry.

Rust, the most similar type of game to ark, literally has a twitter where they post all player profiles who get banned, Overwatch, WoW, and other blizzard games tell you if they took enforcement action based on your report, Fortnite sends you a thank you message if they ban someone based on your report, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Completely different games for the most part. Designed for PVP and nothing more than PVP really.

Ark is there as well, with a mostly PVE player base so...

Yes now, and Ark used to have a mostly PvP player base. Most of whom have quit and would be interested to come back if the issues were fixed. The reporting system being a huge issue.

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2 minutes ago, Tylanater said:

Yes now, and Ark used to have a mostly PvP player base. Most of whom have quit and would be interested to come back if the issues were fixed. The reporting system being a huge issue.

We'll see if the souls-like PVP brings em back or not.

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29 minutes ago, Pipinghot said:

No, they don't, a point which you keep missing or ignoring.

The communications from WC on this topic are completely normal for the games industry.

Hell, a lot of other games give you confirmation on reports for toxic chat, let alone cheating. Ark literally doesn't even have a chat filter and people spam the worst words, that I'm sure you can imagine, and have them as part of the characters name, and don't get banned from reporting.

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Just now, Tylanater said:

Ya could be an issue, we'll see, if they are moving to more melee based combat to not have to worry about aimbot as much it might actually work well for pvp lol

Until an 'aimbot' for melee is released. WoW used to have all sorts of problems with bots and automation in vanilla.

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On 7/17/2022 at 11:56 AM, MMaas said:

Excactly: WAS possible but no longer is.

Disabling an exploit through one avenue does not disable it from every avenue. When you feed people information on what it is you've taken from them there is always someone who will see it as a challenge/obstacle and try to find a workaround. Now in the best case scenario they fail, get caught, and get banned, but then you also have the worst case scenario where they succeed and find a bevy of other exploits through their trial and error. Better to leave everyone in the dark and get a head start on other patches than to let some goon immediately hone in on what they lost and get experimental.

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