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The problem with modern gamers.


Logan96

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34 minutes ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

Well, the devs released a monster in the game (alatreon) that upset that meta by having a condition that DEMANDED focus on high elemental bonus and weapon affinity or it would flat out kill you after a set amount of time with an unavoidable nuke if you failed to meet an elemental dps check. No question asked; no quarter given. Meet the check or die like a dog.

Ah the old WoW raid metas. Most bosses back in the day forced you to come to the party with certain gear and character builds. Some people thought it was just a grind to get the right gear. I called it immersion and made guilds work together.

They dropped that for lolMoveMashButtonsMoveWithAnyGear.

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3 hours ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

they wait until some enterprising individual finds the "optimum strategy" and then ape it, and god help anything that upsets their meta.

Just like it happened with... WoW in 2004
Just like it happened with... DAoC in 2001
Just like it happened with... EverQuest in 2000
Just like it happened with... Ultima Online in 1997
Just like it happened with... Meridian59 in 1996

Just like it happened with... lots of other games over the years

You guys are talking like efficiency, optimum strategy and players complaining about changes to their favorite games as if it's new or somehow surprising. Human nature is human nature, there's absolutely nothing new about any of it.

It's not the new age, son, it's just people being people, like they always have.

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4 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Some people thought it was just a grind to get the right gear

Those people are what end up contributing to the killing of creativity and building of camaraderie. To hell with making pals because you guys sat down, farmed together, and talked strategy or you thoroughly enjoyed watching someone fulfill their role or use their abilities in a way that was novel or maximized your role's ability to work to the point that you want to talk to them more. Nah, spam the meta method to work and MAYBE say gg afterwards.

1 hour ago, Pipinghot said:

Just like it happened with... WoW in 2004
Just like it happened with... DAoC in 2001
Just like it happened with... EverQuest in 2000
Just like it happened with... Ultima Online in 1997
Just like it happened with... Meridian59 in 1996

Just like it happened with... lots of other games over the years

You guys are talking like efficiency, optimum strategy and players complaining about changes to their favorite games as if it's new or somehow surprising. Human nature is human nature, there's absolutely nothing new about any of it.

It's not the new age, son, it's just people being people, like they always have.

I was just using the most recent example I knew because of how entrenched in that particular series I am and because I may or may not have enjoyed bathing in the resulting tears from that event so much that I've practically mummified myself through constant salt exposure. The point is that people screech and sqaul like wounded animals because they just don't want to adapt. It's gotten worse as of late though because games have generally gotten more accommodating to match a more impatient clientele. At the risk of sounding like an absolute boomer they genuinely don't do things like they used to, and that's for better or for worse.

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14 hours ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

Those people are what end up contributing to the killing of creativity and building of camaraderie. To hell with making pals because you guys sat down, farmed together, and talked strategy or you thoroughly enjoyed watching someone fulfill their role or use their abilities in a way that was novel or maximized your role's ability to work to the point that you want to talk to them more. Nah, spam the meta method to work and MAYBE say gg afterwards.

That doesn't sound like my experience. I haven't raided in WoW for 10 years, and haven't played it for 8, but I'm still in contact with multiple people from my old end-game raiding guild and have gamed with a good number of them in other games over the years. In fact, one of the tribemates on my private ARK server right now is someone I met doing raiding in WoW. That guild, which still to this day has an annual BBQ and get together which is attended by 10-20 people each year, was a very successful raiding guild and built friendships that lasted.

If you didn't make pals this sounds like "you thing".

14 hours ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

I was just using the most recent example

Which is pretty much my point, it's only the most recent, it's really how people have always been. You're giving one recent example and then pretending like it's a new thing, or worse than it used to be, when really there are tons of example from the past that show there's nothing new or worse about it.

"Those people" aren't doing anything new, trying to maximize efficiency when having fun isn't anything new, trying to min/max a loadout to be as effective as possible as part of being a good teammate isn't anything new. "Those people" have been part of gaming all along.

14 hours ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

The point is that people screech and sqaul like wounded animals because they just don't want to adapt.

Yup, just like they always have. People don't like change in general, and that's especially true when they're already enjoying the current system. People almost never like seeing something changed that they already like. This is true in the gaming world just like it's true in the real world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

14 hours ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

It's gotten worse as of late

Nope.

14 hours ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

because games have generally gotten more accommodating to match a more impatient clientele.

"Impatient", no, "casual", yes.

Most games (or at least MMO's) start off being better for the most patient players, the people who are willing to endlessly farm mats and run the dungeons/caves/content that gives them the best equipment in order to min/max. Most people don't want to play their games like a part time job and so only the people who are willing to dedicate large amounts of time to farming get a chance to be good at the end game.

Then, over time and expansions, they make the game more casual friendly by relaxing rigid requirements for certain classes or activities, or relaxing requirements for weapons & gear, making questing and rewards more friendly for casual gamers. Why? Because the large majority of games in almost every game (with a few rare exceptions) are casual, they are people with jobs, families and obligations who want to see and experience all of the content in their favorite game without having to become an expert at that game.

Look at the comment by @Joebl0w13 above. WoW was originally built in a way that made the end game content only accessible to the most dedicated players, with all of the casual players (who were also spending money on the game) not having enough time to see the end-game content, much less beat it. When WoW released their first expansion, Burning Crusade, in January of 2008, only about 1% of all WoW players had completed the 7 original raids in Vanilla WoW, and only about 25% of players had even set foot in any of those 7 dungeons, much less beaten any bosses in any of them.

From a developer & publisher's point of view that's a horrible situation. They spend a lot of time and money developing content that the large majority of their players never experienced and the vast majority never completed, which is a huge waste of money and a bad way to run a game. When they started making changes to the game to make it more friendly for casual players (not impatient, casual) the 1% raised bloody hell about how they were "dumbing down" the game, because those players wanted to retain their status as being the l33t few who had beaten that content. They wanted Blizzard to make a bad business decision so they could pat themselves on the back.

WoW is just one example, if you look at other MMO's most of them follow this pattern. You could try to call that "more accommodating to match a more impatient clientele" but it's not a good description. It misses the true reason, to be more accommodating for more casual clientele, because they are the majority of the player base for any MMO and their money is more important than the l33t 1%.

This is the same pattern that most MMO's follow, more hardcore at first and then more casual friendly as time goes on. Maybe your specific complaint, that they're catering to more impatient players, actually applies to Monster Hunter (I don't know, haven't played the game), but for most MMO's that's not at all true, what they're actually doing it making MMO's more fun for casual players, because (almost) every game needs lots of casual players if they want to be able to keep the game running.

14 hours ago, CosmicSkeleton said:

At the risk of sounding like an absolute boomer they genuinely don't do things like they used to, and that's for better or for worse.

I don't know about a "boomer", per se, but you do sound like every old man in history who has stepped outside to yell at those pesky kids to get off his lawn.

They do things just like they used to, MMO's almost all follow the same pattern that the very first MMO's followed, it's what they almost all do to stay in business as long as possible. It's not about patient or impatient, it's about maintaining as large a player base as they can because they're in business to make money and you make more money by accommodating more/casual players.

As you said, you were "just using the most recent example". It's not new, it's not worse, it's always been there. You're just embedded too deeply in your specific game squabble to see the big picture.

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