Modders made a better map than the developers?....

[chaosguy67]

The center is sooo much better than the island...    why are these modders so much more creative than the developers?

[TylerTheDoctor]

When you release the dev kit to the players, there are a whole lot more creative minds, especially ones who work together.. and for free

[curiosity101]

That's a little bit offensive don't you think? 

When it comes to software development normally most of what drives it is generating revenue. The question I hear day in day out at work is 'Is it worth the time it will take for the benefit to the customer' or 'It's not worth how much we'd have to spend to build it'.

When it comes to a fan creating something in their own time then cost isn't a factor. The only thing they're considering is 'What will I most enjoy'. 

[Jerryn]

15 minutes ago, chaosguy67 said:

The center is sooo much better than the island...    why are these modders so much more creative than the developers?

Modders are using the tools created by the developers.  And then, well, they are developing more tools and content.

The fact that the game is moddable so early, and easily, is a feather in thier cap.

Also, the moders have the benefit of learning from the initial designs and improving on them; this is basic design evolution.

Then, there is specialization.  I use to write more middleware than I did front end coding.  Hence, someone with skills for designing frontends/interfaces could put together a much better design.  However, they were not needed every day or in ever phase/enhancement, as most of the work was being done in the middle layer, not the presentation layer. 

And, the Island is the working protoytpe.

With that said, I had very few issues with the Island; my main issue was when I got close to my very high object and dino count base, where my FPS woud drop from 50/60 to around 30, with some dips to 19/20 when facing a certain direction.  I cleared up a little of that by moving a lot of dinos to another base, just out of range of my main base.

 

[Janna3921]

I also think it has to do with working with others.  When you are alone working on a map the only person who makes the decisions is you.  You don't have to get others to agree, or sit and debate what to do next,.  You don't have to hunt up what someone else did to figure out the mistake, where the bug is because that person isn't able to come in and help with it. 

When you have a group working on coding, one designing the redwood area, another group on the snow biome, another on the dinos, sometimes there is not only conflict, but miscommunication.  By conflict I don't mean just disagreeing only with what one thinks is more important, but time schedules, deadlines have to be changed due to whatever bug has popped up. 

Think of a assembly line.  Let one section break down and all of the rest are held up waiting for it to get fixed.  Then, they have to hurry to get it all taken care of which ends up with the rushing leading to mistakes that can be missed. 

When a single person, such as the creator of The Center, has a problem he is able to focus on that, he doesn't have to worry about another area that is being worked on and there will be a conflict with the changes he is making, which then affects another area.  And the dominoes keep knocking over the next one in the lineup.

That is my perception, besides as the others have stated, the kits have a large part of the work completed.  They do have a lot of work to do, but that first large step has been taken care of before they started on it.

 

 

 

[Jerryn]

On a side not, last night, I killed my self after not fully harvesting a rock and turning to get on my bear; didn't need more rock.

Literally, I hit the rock a few times, turned 180, started taking damage, and then died.

This was on the Center.

So, while it is a great map, it is also not perfect.  I don't recall ever killing my self by hitting a rock a few times and turning 180 degrees; though, I am guessing it can and has happened on the Island, but not to me in well over 2500 hours of game play (less than 24 on the Center).

[Rickyh24]

Center is great. Except for the fact that it broke my dedicated server of course. 

[NukeZX]

1 hour ago, chaosguy67 said:

The center is sooo much better than the island...    why are these modders so much more creative than the developers?

The Island can use upgrades, but to say it is better?

In some cases there are good features added, I liked the weather system, but also a LOT of plants clipping through structures (non harvestable) so they wont go away even if you build on them.

Also a LOT of places to get stuck without chance of getting out, not even with help from a friend on a flying dino. Swimming in the air etc etc etc.

I had a giga (npc) come THROUGH the mountain and a rex clip inside a cave, well deep in the cave and attack me.

It is a fun map, but to say it is better, no. It still needs a LOT of polishing to become a really good map.

it is something different, not better, but different.

[FireStormRising]

3 hours ago, curiosity101 said:

That's a little bit offensive don't you think? 

When it comes to software development normally most of what drives it is generating revenue. The question I hear day in day out at work is 'Is it worth the time it will take for the benefit to the customer' or 'It's not worth how much we'd have to spend to build it'.

When it comes to a fan creating something in their own time then cost isn't a factor. The only thing they're considering is 'What will I most enjoy'. 

Yeah, I have to agree.  I think the OP's statement borders on offensive, too.  

The developers created EVERYTHING, including engrams, Dinos, maps, structures, AI, and the many other customizations I'm forgetting.  They are trying to make something creative, while at the same time balancing out the business aspect for generating enough income to keep developing and promote investment and sustainability. 

The modders are unbelievably creative, but;

they were given a template to start with and

can develope at their own pace and

have no one tell them what to do and

can stop at anytime with no repercussions. 

There is a tremendous amount of freedom in that, which benefits their creativity. The core of Ark is an amazing game and the fact that the developers make it so available to modding is something to respect.  

My two cents.  

[GravitronX]

As stated by everyone else the centre is not flat out better than the island and the weather effects maybe they can pull over to the island which would be nice another thing is the centres over all lighting is brighter I don't need to turn my gamma up anymore but I'm staying on the island while the bugs are being worked out I myself would love for the modding tools to come to console and a page for people to display their mods.

[Janx]

think of The Island as a proof of concept.  the devs spent a lot of time building variety to demonstrate environments, etc.

it set a baseline.

it's actually pretty easy for a 3rd party to come in, take the baseline and get funky or make it different because they see what's "been done" and are free to deviate.

WC didn't exactly have time to do that themselves, heck, you see they are still fine tuning their only map The Island while fine tuning the game design and such.

[wildbill]

3 hours ago, Jerryn said:

On a side not, last night, I killed my self after not fully harvesting a rock and turning to get on my bear; didn't need more rock.

Literally, I hit the rock a few times, turned 180, started taking damage, and then died.

This was on the Center.

So, while it is a great map, it is also not perfect.  I don't recall ever killing my self by hitting a rock a few times and turning 180 degrees; though, I am guessing it can and has happened on the Island, but not to me in well over 2500 hours of game play (less than 24 on the Center).

The Island had this one tree that if you tried to chop it down you would kill yourself, but that has been fixed long ago. We need to be reporting all the flaws on the Center just like we did on the Island and they will get fixed too.

[Jerryn]

8 minutes ago, wildbill said:

The Island had this one tree that if you tried to chop it down you would kill yourself, but that has been fixed long ago. We need to be reporting all the flaws on the Center just like we did on the Island and they will get fixed too.

Yep.  I was in the middle of something when it happened so I did not have time.  Going to go back and see what happens when I try it again, and get some coords, especially if it is repeatable (and not just some game sync issue).  

[DmpTrkDrvr]

3 hours ago, Jerryn said:

On a side not, last night, I killed my self after not fully harvesting a rock and turning to get on my bear; didn't need more rock.

Literally, I hit the rock a few times, turned 180, started taking damage, and then died.

This was on the Center.

So, while it is a great map, it is also not perfect.  I don't recall ever killing my self by hitting a rock a few times and turning 180 degrees; though, I am guessing it can and has happened on the Island, but not to me in well over 2500 hours of game play (less than 24 on the Center).

I've lost every dino we've tamed so far.  They just straight up dissappear after you respawn at a bed near them.   So far it's 5 dilo 1 trike and 2 pterra.   The map is great sure..  But it's barely had the bugs all found   there are some weird things that happen on the center.  

[perk8504]

hardly anything new

release the content to be modded by the general public, and someone comes out with something better than the original

it's why the community pushes so hard for modding permissions on games

[NagohShan]

Modders have the ability to work on one thing, without bureaucracy, budgets, timelines, or other things to do. A map is just a map. They don't have to worry about filling the map with content, they don't have to design progression, weapons, engrams, dinos, rates, or communicate with the people who do. Artists, animators, and designers from multiple departments are always in contact arguing and redoing to meet everyone's needs.

I remember an interview with a map designer and an encounter designer for Halo 2, and they were talking about how much they fought over boxes. Every time the encounter designer got the map back he added a massive amount of boxes for cover and to direct the player, while the map designer hated the boxes and removed almost all of them, and they just repeated it over and over until it looks the way it does when you boot the game now.

 

 

[Nayte]

1 hour ago, wildbill said:

The Island had this one tree that if you tried to chop it down you would kill yourself, but that has been fixed long ago. We need to be reporting all the flaws on the Center just like we did on the Island and they will get fixed too.

 

1 hour ago, Jerryn said:

Yep.  I was in the middle of something when it happened so I did not have time.  Going to go back and see what happens when I try it again, and get some coords, especially if it is repeatable (and not just some game sync issue).  

I think they should have one randomized "Tree of Death" on both The Island and The Center. Something to keep players on their toes (more so than usual ;)). Or maybe a 1% chance harvesting a large tree could potentially kill you. Widow makers anyone?

[Jerryn]

12 minutes ago, Nayte said:

 

I think they should have one randomized "Tree of Death" on both The Island and The Center. Something to keep players on their toes (more so than usual ;)). Or maybe a 1% chance harvesting a large tree could potentially kill you. Widow makers anyone?

I thought that was purpose of the Giga.

[Nayte]

23 minutes ago, Jerryn said:

I thought that was purpose of the Giga.

Haha yeah, except encountering a Giga while on foot makes that statistic jump to about a 99% fatality rate..

[wildbill]

1 hour ago, Nayte said:

 

I think they should have one randomized "Tree of Death" on both The Island and The Center. Something to keep players on their toes (more so than usual ;)). Or maybe a 1% chance harvesting a large tree could potentially kill you. Widow makers anyone?

First time I chopped a tree, I was worried it would fall on me

[Rippy]

10 hours ago, chaosguy67 said:

In my opinion, The center is sooo much better than the island...    why are these modders so much more creative than the developers?

Hey OP, I fixed that quote there for you.

[Sajiri]

I dont really think that's fair, or that it's better. The Center was made by one person and in a relatively short amount of time, and it definitely shows. Dont get me wrong, it's still an amazing map and you can see the amount of effort that has been put into it. I was following along with it all while it was in development, and played it a bit before it was released as an official map, but it was decidedly less polished than the Island. There are some beautiful areas, but there were others I'd be exploring, they just didnt look right, textures seemed flat, stuff clipping, etc. There's also personal preference. The Center is very over the top fantasy, which is great for some people, others maybe not so much. Personally I love the more tropical feel of the southern isles in the Island.

Modders have freedom to make things how they wish. Developers need to keep accessibility in mind. For example Valhalla, another fan made map, is far larger than the Island. I absolutely love that map, but it does lag more and take up more resources needing possibly a better pc than what you'd need to run the Island on. That's fine as a mod, but if you were trying to make profit off it as the main setting for the game, that'd be a big problem.

I think the Island still has it's charm though. If you've played nothing but that for months  on end, a new map would seem better. After I played the center and valhalla for a while though and went back to the Island, I was able to appreciate it a lot more

[d1nk]

5 hours ago, DmpTrkDrvr said:

I've lost every dino we've tamed so far.  They just straight up dissappear after you respawn at a bed near them.   So far it's 5 dilo 1 trike and 2 pterra.   The map is great sure..  But it's barely had the bugs all found   there are some weird things that happen on the center.  

Never seen this issue, official? Dedicated?  

 

Edit: should've said never seen this issue on the center yet

[NukeZX]

7 hours ago, d1nk said:

Never seen this issue, official? Dedicated?  

 

Edit: should've said never seen this issue on the center yet

Had a couple of dinos just despawn on the official Center map.

It's a good map, especially the cave with the artificial sun. Hope the devs take notice of this and create a similar thing on the Island.

-or I will do it on a modified Island-

[Mctoozle]

It took me a couple minutes to find out who the guy was that made The Center - he's made many maps with the Unreal Engine dev tools and has been paid to make/improve maps by gaming companies frequently. Basically, he's a pro. Not only can he make maps he knows how to optimize them for better rendering. He's not a typical 'modder'.