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Thyla, Carno, Megalosaurus issues that need fixing


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So the Megalosaurus issue is old and i don't have high hopes for it to be fixed.  When using Megalos, the ones that aren't being ridden on will use the grab attack instead of the bite.  This can heavily affect how the Rockwell fight goes on Aberration, if you choose to use Megalos there.

The Thyla since it got the bleed ability won't get credit and thus XP if the dino dies from the bleed and not a final bite.

The Carno bleed attack does the exact same thing, won't give the XP if the dino dies from the bleed.

At least with the Carno, you have an option of a non-bleed regular attack, the Thyla applies the bleed no matter what.
 

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13 hours ago, SubaruImpossibru said:

So the Megalosaurus issue is old and i don't have high hopes for it to be fixed.  When using Megalos, the ones that aren't being ridden on will use the grab attack instead of the bite.

This is intentional and a lot of other people like it. You have the right to dislike that decision but it's not an issue, it's a deliberate choice by the devs.

13 hours ago, SubaruImpossibru said:

This can heavily affect how the Rockwell fight goes on Aberration, if you choose to use Megalos there.

Agreed, which means you have to adjust your tactics accordingly.

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22 minutes ago, Pipinghot said:

This is intentional and a lot of other people like it. You have the right to dislike that decision but it's not an issue, it's a deliberate choice by the devs.

Do you have any evidence to post that this is intentional?    What are you basing your statement that "a lot of other people like it" on?  Who are these people?
 

Why would anyone like a system that ignores the time you put into mutations?  The secondary attack ignores mutations.  Actually, even if you don't care about mutations, it ignores any points in melee period, so it negates leveling up melee, as well as looking for a high melee tame.

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7 hours ago, theopheus said:

Do you have any evidence to post that this is intentional?

This has come up before on the forums and I remember someone quoting a tweet or post by the devs that said so.

7 hours ago, theopheus said:

What are you basing your statement that "a lot of other people like it" on?  Who are these people?

Everyone I've ever played on Aberration with. Three different tribes, three different servers, a total of 20+ people. I've been in multiple discussions about this feature and everyone I've ever spoken to appreciated the feature. When you go out adventuring with a pack of 2-4 megalosaurus' on Follow/Neutral it comes in handy quite often.

Mind you, I'm not saying that you're alone or truly unique, I'm sure that there are other people who share your dislike of the feature. I'm not trying to use the argument that "everyone but you likes it", that argument would be obnoxious. What I am saying is that you're also not a spokesman for a universally held dislike of the feature, plenty of people who are not-you like it.

7 hours ago, theopheus said:

Why would anyone like a system that ignores the time you put into mutations?  The secondary attack ignores mutations.  Actually, even if you don't care about mutations, it ignores any points in melee period, so it negates leveling up melee, as well as looking for a high melee tame.

It only "negates melee" for animals that are small enough that the megalo's can pick them up, most of which are not an immediate threat. Even if you dislike it it's not like it happens all the time, only with certain enemies. And even then they're still doing some damage, and they are removing a hostile creature from being effective in combat while they do it. There is an upside to this behavior as well, it's not like they just stand around and do nothing.

And the thing is, non-ridden dino's already have weak damage compared to ridden dino's so the melee on nearly anything that you tame is mostly ignored unless you're riding it. You mount always does a lot more damage than anything in your escort posse, you & your mount are always the primary source of dealing damage regardless of how much melee you put into the rest of them. The single most important melee stat is always going to be the dino you're riding, the melee of everything in you posse is always less important. From a mathematical point of view the reduction in damage that they do when they pick something up is pretty small, they're still almost as effective as any other species on follow while having the benefit of effectively removing a hostile from combat.

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9 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

This has come up before on the forums and I remember someone quoting a tweet or post by the devs that said so.

So you remember reading something, sometime, that you can't reproduce.  Got it.

 

9 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

Everyone I've ever played on Aberration with. Three different tribes, three different servers, a total of 20+ people. I've been in multiple discussions about this feature and everyone I've ever spoken to appreciated the feature. When you go out adventuring with a pack of 2-4 megalosaurus' on Follow/Neutral it comes in handy quite often.

Mind you, I'm not saying that you're alone or truly unique, I'm sure that there are other people who share your dislike of the feature. I'm not trying to use the argument that "everyone but you likes it", that argument would be obnoxious. What I am saying is that you're also not a spokesman for a universally held dislike of the feature, plenty of people who are not-you like it.

Except my argument is logical and yours is anecdotal.

9 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

It only "negates melee" for animals that are small enough that the megalo's can pick them up, most of which are not an immediate threat. Even if you dislike it it's not like it happens all the time, only with certain enemies. And even then they're still doing some damage, and they are removing a hostile creature from being effective in combat while they do it. There is an upside to this behavior as well, it's not like they just stand around and do nothing.

If you ignore the fact that the secondary attack has a base damage of 10 and the primary has a base damage of 75.

 

9 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

And the thing is, non-ridden dino's already have weak damage compared to ridden dino's so the melee on nearly anything that you tame is mostly ignored unless you're riding it. You mount always does a lot more damage than anything in your escort posse, you & your mount are always the primary source of dealing damage regardless of how much melee you put into the rest of them. The single most important melee stat is always going to be the dino you're riding, the melee of everything in you posse is always less important. From a mathematical point of view the reduction in damage that they do when they pick something up is pretty small, they're still almost as effective as any other species on follow while having the benefit of effectively removing a hostile from combat.

Yeah, it's not rocket science.   You physically controlling an animal is going to be better than an AI, as well as getting imprint bonuses, etc.   Except that controlling non ridden dinosaurs is essential for boss fights, particularly if you're solo, and having an extra Mega can give you the mate boost, so you're really just being crippled by not having them be a viable option as an unridden dinosaur.

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14 hours ago, theopheus said:

So you remember reading something, sometime, that you can't reproduce.  Got it.

You asked a question, I gave you the answer, there's no reason for you to take a snarky tone. If you want to assume I'm lying or wrong because that makes you feel better then go right ahead, but it's not going to make any difference in what WC will do (or in this case, won't do, because this is the result of a deliberate choice they made).

14 hours ago, theopheus said:

Except my argument is logical and yours is anecdotal.

My anecdote has a sample size of 20, your anecdote has sample size of "you". They're both anecdotal but one of those anecdotes is demonstrably more valid than the other.

Again, I'm not telling you that you're supposed to like WC's decision, you have every right to dislike it, just like any player has the right to dislike any game mechanic of their choosing. But your personal dislike doesn't qualify it as a bug or an "issue", it's a decision that you dislike. Whether you want to admit it or not you are not speaking for the majority of players, just yourself.

14 hours ago, theopheus said:

 

If you ignore the fact that the secondary attack has a base damage of 10 and the primary has a base damage of 75.

False claim, I didn't ignore anything.

I agreed with you and then specified the conditions under which your assertion was true and when it was false. Your complaint is not universal, it's situational, you're the one trying to ignore this important fact and to pretend that the behavior is a major problem when in truth it's situational.

14 hours ago, theopheus said:

Yeah, it's not rocket science.   You physically controlling an animal is going to be better than an AI, as well as getting imprint bonuses, etc.   Except that controlling non ridden dinosaurs is essential for boss fights, particularly if you're solo, and having an extra Mega can give you the mate boost, so you're really just being crippled by not having them be a viable option as an unridden dinosaur.

You do have a viable option as an unridden dinosaur, just not the specific option that you want.

1) Fighting the Tentacles - your "issue" doesn't exist.

2) Fighting the Heart - your "issue" doesn't exist.

3) Fighting the Reapers - your "issue" doesn't exist.

4) Fighting the Nameless - the one time it happens, and frankly they're weak. Even non-ridden mounts kill nameless quickly when they pick them up in their mouths.

 

There are plenty of videos of people solo'ing Rockwell ranging from single-player mode to Official servers. It's not accurate to describe this as "crippling" when in fact it makes very little difference in your overall damage on the fight. Worst case scenario one of your mega's picks up a nameless and wastes a couple of extra seconds killing it. The issue is not that megalosaurs are somehow magically crippled by this behavior, it's that you need to get better at the boss fight and more specifically at controlling your tames.

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Now you're making assumptions about me talking about the Rockwell fight specifically, and you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word crippling.   If the code is forcing the dinosaur to use an inferior attack, then it is indeed crippled.   You don't know the difference between using a logical argument and an anecdotal one, either.

You made an assertion you can't back up, you made another assertion based on your sample size of 20 people, you brought up every detail of the situation except the one that hurts players and then claim you're not ignoring it, and now you're making assumptions that because I said boss fight, I meant Rockwell, when I said nothing about it.

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1 hour ago, theopheus said:

Now you're making assumptions about me talking about the Rockwell fight specifically

Not just an assumption, a reasonable deduction based on the history of this thread.

The OP explicitly stated, "This can heavily affect how the Rockwell fight goes on Aberration" and no one else in the thread (including you) have discussed any scenarios other than the Rockwell fight. Therefore it was reasonable to assume that the Rockwell fight is the point of contention unless someone says otherwise. If you want to discuss other scenarios then feel free to do so, but until you do the only scenario that has been discussed has been Rockwell. That is not merely "making assumptions".

1 hour ago, theopheus said:

and you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word crippling.   If the code is forcing the dinosaur to use an inferior attack, then it is indeed crippled.

If you want to play the definition game we can do that, but it's not going to go in your favor.

"Crippled", "crippling" etc. requires a significant reduction in ability to function. A small reduction of function/power/DPS, especially one that only arises in limited circumstances and which is partially compensated for by a different perk or benefit (like picking up a hostile creature which effectively removes it from the combat) cannot be said to be crippling, that's nothing more than dramatic exaggeration for effect.

This so-called "issue" simply doesn't happen that much, and even when it does there is a form of compensation, only a drama llama would describe it as "crippling".

1 hour ago, theopheus said:

If the code is forcing the dinosaur to use an inferior attack, then it is indeed crippled.

A slight reduction in overall effectiveness is not crippled.

Again, you have the right to dislike that WC allows a small reduction in overall effectiveness, but it's still disingenuous to call that "crippled".

1 hour ago, theopheus said:

You don't know the difference between using a logical argument and an anecdotal one, either.

I don't even need to argue this point, the history contained in this thread proves that you're making a false accusation.

1 hour ago, theopheus said:

you made another assertion based on your sample size of 20 people

So what exactly are you trying to say here? Maybe I'm being obtuse and need an explanation but I just don't see where you're going with this. Are you trying to argue that everyone who plays the game except the 20 people in my sample dislike this feature? Are you trying to argue that it's a bug because my sample size is only 20? Are you trying to argue that because I didn't sample 1,000 players that my anecdote doesn't carry the same anecdotal weight as the two people in this thread (the OP + you)?

1 hour ago, theopheus said:

you brought up every detail of the situation except the one that hurts players and then claim you're not ignoring it

Right, because the situation that hurts players was already described by the OP, there was no need to repeat what the OP had already said. Adding new scenarios without repeating the already existing scenario raised by the OP isn't ignoring anything.

The OP and you described a situation where it hurts players, to which I replied that those situations are minor in the scheme of things. I addressed your complaint with a counter-argument and it should be painfully obvious that addressing and counter-arguing is the opposite of ignoring. Then, in addition to addressing your existing complaints, I supplemented your scenarios with other scenarios that the OP and then you had ignored in the first place.

It's sheer folly for you to accuse me of ignoring factors when you had the opportunity to enumerate all factors in the first place. What I did was address your complaint, which is the opposite of ignoring, and then to fill in the blanks that the OP and you had ignored.

1 hour ago, theopheus said:

and now you're making assumptions that because I said boss fight, I meant Rockwell, when I said nothing about it.

As already addressed, this is the only scenario that had been discussed in the thread. The lack of other scenarios being brought up by you implied that the Rockwell scenario raised by the OP was the scenario that you cared about. That's not merely an assumption, it's a reasonable deduction.

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On 6/18/2021 at 6:33 PM, SubaruImpossibru said:

The Thyla since it got the bleed ability won't get credit and thus XP if the dino dies from the bleed and not a final bite.

I hate this one, Ill be busy chomping on a alpha carno and then it dies.....no xp. >.<

Id think this is a bit more of a bug than anything else. I mean obviously the thylo is the reason that something died. x.x

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As much as I enjoy a good debate team exercise, the bottom line response is demonstrably true:

1) Megalosaurus is very much a viable tame in the Aberration boss fight. It is not so useful on the other boss fights. Regardless of your complaint, there are so many videos of this boss fight being successful -as is- using this tame, I would suggest your point is not proven. With or without grab, they are monsters against Rockwell.

2) The Carno and Thylo complaint is valid. They should fix it, and any suggestion to 'adjust accordingly' is dismissive of a design flaw. That being said, if we are to dismiss this flaw... I think the standard "I doubt they consider that very important, so we will have to live with it" will be the most accurate. But... the bug is valid.

 

One last thing... the idea that unridden tames are a meaningful decline in melee damage is wrong in the face of the most popular and effective Boss fight tactic... the Rush. Just because something riding does MORE damage, doesn't mean the unridden damage is not vastly significant.

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