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Managar Dino is to OP (from BOB perspective)


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26 minutes ago, Gooberino said:

I really don't get the obsession with manas. Back when I was playing megatribe and we wiped every bob that would try to build on our server without talking to us in global, bobs would just complain about ANYTHING. Have a small metal box with no turrets? Bohoo arthros OP. big metal box with turrets? boohoo sausageracers/sausagequetzal/pachyrhinos/trikes OP. Funniest part is the bobs who would play nice we would let do their own thing as long as they didn't try to build in artifact caves.

You can never please these people. Accept the truth : lines have been bred, BPs have been looted for almost 4 years now and these tribes have been farming for just as long. How fun or fair would it be to them if you could ignore them in pvp as a solo bob when they have collectively farmed thousands of hours more than you? Do you complain to WoW devs about getting curbstomped by 10k hours players? People would laugh at you but the ARK community is so whiny these posts get upvoted.

You want to break manas' legs let me tell you : you're actually doing yourself a disservice. The best thing a bob can do is get his own mana because they are a good dino to punch above your weight class and gtfo when things get dodgy. Manas are pocket change, the breed lines have been capped for about a year and nobody cares about selling or even giving them. They aren't even used in raiding lol there are like 10 dinos that are used more in actual pvp wars (tektape meks racers gigas reapers yutys velos tekrex poisonwyv lightwyv).

Manas are only good for griefing and scouting, you remove them people will go back to griffins and wyverns with a pocket giga and you'll have the same problem. They may even flex on you with a skiff. If you complain about mana mobility then you don't understand once you're on a server it's a matter of time before you're found and wiped. They watch logs, they count players on server, everyone will scout for an intruder until you're found and cleared. It was like that before even aberation or extinction came out and it will always be like that on a megatribe occupied server.

Not to mention extinction and genesis have made life so easy for solo players as long as you know what you're doing. Don't like manas? Then play on genesis lmao xd bet you'll complain about something new in a week (bloodstalker or skiff maybe?).

 

right, i agree with most of what ur saying. But they really shouldnt have added the option to upload dinos to different servers, might seem like a good idea but it really takes a toll on the balance and fairness. mega tribes should exist but the ones that take it upon themselves to raid all the bobs and do really, really, toxic things in servers with little to no consequence makes the game very annoying at times, and causes many players to take long breaks. if no dino uploading then messing around can only be done in your home server, and other tribes will notice and fight back. and if that mega tribe can survive the clashback, then good for them on their own build monarchy. Makes the game more fair with unique 'politics' per server. thats just opinions tho, i have never been part of mega tribe, and from what ive heard, i never want to join one if im not irl friends with the top doggs.

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9 hours ago, SMP said:

Too late.  This game was already "killed" by a hundred other things people whined about.  None of us actually play anymore, we just hang out on the forum because it's such a fun community.

 

Fun..? Subjective. Mostly curiosity to see just how many trolls can gather in one place whilst legitimate concerns are immediately swept under the rug in a game that no one wants to admit will ever die due to innate desperation and near-medicated complacency. 

 

Eh...I'd say...about 10% fun. Honestly I have no idea how people still completely enjoy the game from a pve standpoint with all of the problems that just disintegrate any effort, nor can I even fathom playing pvp at 'all'. Seriously. 

 

I mean its fun if you have absolutely 'everything' that you need already and just feel like exploring the lands due to boredom and experimenting with various other scenarios without caring what you'd lose. Purely just milking the sandbox perspective. Thats about it though. The amazement and whimsy has longsince died, replaced by annoyance and impatient turmoil from what I've seen for years.

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5 minutes ago, Masurao said:

Fun..? Subjective. Mostly curiosity to see just how many trolls can gather in one place whilst legitimate concerns are immediately swept under the rug in a game that no one wants to admit will ever die due to innate desperation and near-medicated complacency. 

 

Eh...I'd say...about 10% fun. Honestly I have no idea how people still completely enjoy the game from a pve standpoint with all of the problems that just disintegrate any effort, nor can I even fathom playing pvp at 'all'. Seriously. 

 

I mean its fun if you have absolutely 'everything' that you need already and just feel like exploring the lands due to boredom and experimenting with various other scenarios without caring what you'd lose. Purely just milking the sandbox perspective. Thats about it though. The amazement and whimsy has longsince died, replaced by annoyance and impatient turmoil from what I've seen for years.

the best time i had with this game is at the very start, when i knew nothing and everything was new. 

yes, going into pvp u should 100% have the mindset of just playing for fun. Possessions come and go. Thats why nowadays, if someone is looking to build and just have a nice time collecting resources by grinding and not raiding. PvE is best bet.

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On 2/28/2021 at 4:55 AM, Cascco said:

I return to ARK 1 month ago and it was never ever so hard to play. Its usually 3 days peace until some Grieffer will come with Mana and destroy evrything. Sometimes it was day after day. Dont tell me to go PVE or to find a bigger tribe cause there should be some balance where i have a little chance to do smth. Problem is with that Dino :

They just travel across the map in 5 seconds and kill whoever they see

It's hard to gather resources on official and they just come and destroy everything

Its always Mana nothing alse, sometimes Wyvern. But mostly Mana. Of course its susualy no name tribes with chinneese language. 

1 player with Mana can destroy all BOB bases on server in 30 minutes that is sick and totally destroy progress in ARK cause no other tribes can get stronger expect those who already are Alpha for over 1 year. Playing on PVP have no sens , cause BOBS have no chance. I was raided 13 times in this month and it was only 1 BOB fight, rest was Mana players 400+ lvl.

What happened to ARK where you had a little chance against other players ? Even HIDE and SEEK dont work, Mana is to fast, i spawned on the other side of map and dude was there near me like in 10 sec. I even had not a chance to grab staff for defend myself. Died naked.

DEVS just doesnt care that its unbalanced ? I understand it that would be Wyvern cause its hard to tame, Giga also (yea its hard for beginners dont tell me that you have a lot of it if you play in MEGA tribe and for over 10kh +) But Mana is super easy to tame for Grieffers if they have  enough res from their Mega tribes. 

Just do smth with it cause servers are super empty, look at Ragnarok , usually 2 online and of course until a player with Mana will come, than its zero. Ppl just give up, no fun.

I hear you but I think you are missing the bigger part of the op mana pie. Ini mods allow this super fast scouting creature to see everything that you think is hidden. 
 

ini mods need to go the way of the dodo IMO. 

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4 hours ago, homie1999 said:

i can assure you that is not true, wildcard pushed all its other projects for ARK and its development, and do try hard to make it good. sadly, the game by nature is very hard on players especially on PvP servers. The balance was bot their since the beginning, just like any game, the more players play eventually they will find ways to bend the game to favor them and not new inexperienced players. Dont blame it on WC.

 

Using OP manas dont bend PVP, it breaks it definitely.

For example Aberration... this map could be baallanced if the only dinos allowed would be native ones.
- no manas
- no gasbags
- no hover skiff
.. then Rock Drake is the king, Reaper become Queen again, Ravagers + zip lines are useful again.

Today Aberration PVP is sad place. Zero balance. Zero wisdom.
 

 

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Anyone who doesn’t understand the way mana’s have broken the game hasn’t spent much time using them, and definitely don’t know some of the more “advanced” controls for them.

Mana’s aren’t just fast, they’re undoubtedly the most agile tame in game. There are multiple other dinos that can match or even outpace them in a straight line but nothing else in game can maneuver they way they do. You can cross even the largest maps in a few minutes. Go from the ground to skybox in a few quick hops. Dash at and damage a target only to be out of range seconds after you hit the ground.

Combine that speed and agility with the raw damage output they’re capable of, both ranged and melee, and add to it that they can freeze the target and damage the rider off the back of a tame and you’re just hitting the tip of the iceberg.
 

Throw in that they also have solid healthpools and damage reduction through both imprint and saddle armor. Armor values that also help to make them more resistant to their own freeze attack. 

Finally, not only can they dominate anything on land or in the air but they also swim and dive capably as well. Sure you won’t be taking on a Tuso underwater but what other tames have that level of versatility outside of the Mana and Bloodstalker?
 

No other tame in Ark is as capable a mount as a Mana can be. The speed and movement they can pull off makes it extremely difficult to fight them with anything other than another mana or a Giga. The amount of damage they can tank, especially compared to any other similar mount, and the damage they can dish out in the same time only makes it even more difficult to fight them.

Wyverns have the HP, but lack the damage reduction to stand a chance, once you’re frozen you’ll lose most of your health if you survive at all.

Tropeo’s have speed and a ranged attack, but since their saddles only add damage and not armor good luck trying to land enough hits to kill the rider off the back of a mana before they shred through your Tropeo’s health. 
 

Snow Owls can tank the damage and have the speed to escape, but have virtually 0 options for damage outside of relying on pure foot pvp.

Griffin and Drakes could both theoretically be a threat to Manas but without breeding it’s nearly impossible to get either to a point where they can stand up to current breed lines. Griffin would have the damage output, and if imprinted could likely tank some damage during a fight. Drakes could match the health pool and armor/damage reduction and could likely match the damage, but would still struggle to keep up with a Mana since they would need to stay in melee range to negate the Mana’s ranged attack. As it stands currently though neither has the ability to take a mana head on.

Any other flyer basically isn’t even in the same class as a Mana and aren’t even worth mentioning.

A Bloodstalker comes closest to the speed, agility, and versatility of a Mana but lacks the ability to take a fight head on. With high melee you can deal quite a bit of damage, and be extremely dangerous to a player on foot or that you’re able to pick. However you don’t have the capability to fight another mount, the stalkers build is based around taking out the player, not the tame.

When it come to ground based tames they all have the same weakness of not being able to keep up with a Mana. All you have to do to fight any of them is take advantage of your ranged attack while staying out of melee.

Even a Giga shares that weakness. Freeze the Giga, beam the rider off its back, and just keep pouring damage on it from range and even a lone Mana can kill a Giga. 
 

Even if that doesn’t work all you have to do is just run. No land Dino can even attempt to keep pace with a Mana outside of another Mana.

All of this is before you even take into consideration the additional advantages that you get using a Mana while running an ini 

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5 minutes ago, carbonark said:

Anyone who doesn’t understand the way mana’s have broken the game hasn’t spent much time using them, and definitely don’t know some of the more “advanced” controls for them.

Mana’s aren’t just fast, they’re undoubtedly the most agile tame in game. There are multiple other dinos that can match or even outpace them in a straight line but nothing else in game can maneuver they way they do. You can cross even the largest maps in a few minutes. Go from the ground to skybox in a few quick hops. Dash at and damage a target only to be out of range seconds after you hit the ground.

Combine that speed and agility with the raw damage output they’re capable of, both ranged and melee, and add to it that they can freeze the target and damage the rider off the back of a tame and you’re just hitting the tip of the iceberg.
 

Throw in that they also have solid healthpools and damage reduction through both imprint and saddle armor. Armor values that also help to make them more resistant to their own freeze attack. 

Finally, not only can they dominate anything on land or in the air but they also swim and dive capably as well. Sure you won’t be taking on a Tuso underwater but what other tames have that level of versatility outside of the Mana and Bloodstalker?
 

No other tame in Ark is as capable a mount as a Mana can be. The speed and movement they can pull off makes it extremely difficult to fight them with anything other than another mana or a Giga. The amount of damage they can tank, especially compared to any other similar mount, and the damage they can dish out in the same time only makes it even more difficult to fight them.

Wyverns have the HP, but lack the damage reduction to stand a chance, once you’re frozen you’ll lose most of your health if you survive at all.

Tropeo’s have speed and a ranged attack, but since their saddles only add damage and not armor good luck trying to land enough hits to kill the rider off the back of a mana before they shred through your Tropeo’s health. 
 

Snow Owls can tank the damage and have the speed to escape, but have virtually 0 options for damage outside of relying on pure foot pvp.

Griffin and Drakes could both theoretically be a threat to Manas but without breeding it’s nearly impossible to get either to a point where they can stand up to current breed lines. Griffin would have the damage output, and if imprinted could likely tank some damage during a fight. Drakes could match the health pool and armor/damage reduction and could likely match the damage, but would still struggle to keep up with a Mana since they would need to stay in melee range to negate the Mana’s ranged attack. As it stands currently though neither has the ability to take a mana head on.

Any other flyer basically isn’t even in the same class as a Mana and aren’t even worth mentioning.

A Bloodstalker comes closest to the speed, agility, and versatility of a Mana but lacks the ability to take a fight head on. With high melee you can deal quite a bit of damage, and be extremely dangerous to a player on foot or that you’re able to pick. However you don’t have the capability to fight another mount, the stalkers build is based around taking out the player, not the tame.

When it come to ground based tames they all have the same weakness of not being able to keep up with a Mana. All you have to do to fight any of them is take advantage of your ranged attack while staying out of melee.

Even a Giga shares that weakness. Freeze the Giga, beam the rider off its back, and just keep pouring damage on it from range and even a lone Mana can kill a Giga. 
 

Even if that doesn’t work all you have to do is just run. No land Dino can even attempt to keep pace with a Mana outside of another Mana.

All of this is before you even take into consideration the additional advantages that you get using a Mana while running an ini 

But how do these affect bobs? Title says from a bob perspective, and if you're in a mega tribe where you have these dinos the impact is less severe. The relations make sense, but if you're in a stone hut you most likely won't have access to gigas / drakes.

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44 minutes ago, carbonark said:

Anyone who doesn’t understand the way mana’s have broken the game hasn’t spent much time using them, and definitely don’t know some of the more “advanced” controls for them.

Mana’s aren’t just fast, they’re undoubtedly the most agile tame in game. There are multiple other dinos that can match or even outpace them in a straight line but nothing else in game can maneuver they way they do. You can cross even the largest maps in a few minutes. Go from the ground to skybox in a few quick hops. Dash at and damage a target only to be out of range seconds after you hit the ground.

Combine that speed and agility with the raw damage output they’re capable of, both ranged and melee, and add to it that they can freeze the target and damage the rider off the back of a tame and you’re just hitting the tip of the iceberg.
 

Throw in that they also have solid healthpools and damage reduction through both imprint and saddle armor. Armor values that also help to make them more resistant to their own freeze attack. 

Finally, not only can they dominate anything on land or in the air but they also swim and dive capably as well. Sure you won’t be taking on a Tuso underwater but what other tames have that level of versatility outside of the Mana and Bloodstalker?
 

No other tame in Ark is as capable a mount as a Mana can be. The speed and movement they can pull off makes it extremely difficult to fight them with anything other than another mana or a Giga. The amount of damage they can tank, especially compared to any other similar mount, and the damage they can dish out in the same time only makes it even more difficult to fight them.

Wyverns have the HP, but lack the damage reduction to stand a chance, once you’re frozen you’ll lose most of your health if you survive at all.

Tropeo’s have speed and a ranged attack, but since their saddles only add damage and not armor good luck trying to land enough hits to kill the rider off the back of a mana before they shred through your Tropeo’s health. 
 

Snow Owls can tank the damage and have the speed to escape, but have virtually 0 options for damage outside of relying on pure foot pvp.

Griffin and Drakes could both theoretically be a threat to Manas but without breeding it’s nearly impossible to get either to a point where they can stand up to current breed lines. Griffin would have the damage output, and if imprinted could likely tank some damage during a fight. Drakes could match the health pool and armor/damage reduction and could likely match the damage, but would still struggle to keep up with a Mana since they would need to stay in melee range to negate the Mana’s ranged attack. As it stands currently though neither has the ability to take a mana head on.

Any other flyer basically isn’t even in the same class as a Mana and aren’t even worth mentioning.

A Bloodstalker comes closest to the speed, agility, and versatility of a Mana but lacks the ability to take a fight head on. With high melee you can deal quite a bit of damage, and be extremely dangerous to a player on foot or that you’re able to pick. However you don’t have the capability to fight another mount, the stalkers build is based around taking out the player, not the tame.

When it come to ground based tames they all have the same weakness of not being able to keep up with a Mana. All you have to do to fight any of them is take advantage of your ranged attack while staying out of melee.

Even a Giga shares that weakness. Freeze the Giga, beam the rider off its back, and just keep pouring damage on it from range and even a lone Mana can kill a Giga. 
 

Even if that doesn’t work all you have to do is just run. No land Dino can even attempt to keep pace with a Mana outside of another Mana.

All of this is before you even take into consideration the additional advantages that you get using a Mana while running an ini 

Everything you said is spot on. Except one thing. Mana can take on a Tuso if the rider uses sea mines that will insta kill Tuso rider if it gets close to him. And mines can be placed while on the saddle. 
 

so it’s even worse....

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23 minutes ago, Cascco said:

All you say is ok but when you can have it. From "STONE" perspective, there is nothing you can do. From BOB perspective its easier to fight someone on Ptera , throw a Bola, smart BOB can win, but with Mana ? What can you do against Mana ? Throw a DODO to him ?

Okay cool, so lets say they nerf mana

Bobs can kill manas now

You kill the mana, and they never come back? They're just going to leave you alone until a different group wipes you?

They will come back and bring friends because it's "fun pvp" for them, rinse and repeat until you're wiped and they will bring whatever dinos the want, even if it's not a mana. You will start making forum posts about how that dino is imbalanced and we'll be back to square 1. So from that standpoint, how does nerfing mana help you?

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57 minutes ago, Topherrrrrrrrrrrrr said:

But how do these affect bobs? Title says from a bob perspective, and if you're in a mega tribe where you have these dinos the impact is less severe. The relations make sense, but if you're in a stone hut you most likely won't have access to gigas / drakes.

Simple, when you have a dino that makes it so incredibly easy for even the worst player to destroy anything, while taking on almost no risk themselves then that's what "bobs" are going face day in and day out. Nothing that you can get as a newer player can even attempt to fight it. Take a bred wyvern though just as an example, and if I'm a bob who happens to also have my own tamed wyvern I can still put up a fight. I can try to pick the other player, avoid their attacks or run away if I have to. What I posted isn't a meant to explain how to fight a mana but show how impossible it is to fight for anyone outside of a tribe with breed lines of either their own manas or other meta options. Mana's are the go to mount because even the worst player can win virtually any fight against anyone who doesn't have an equally powerful tame.

People can say that if you nerf mana's some other dino will just become the "new mana" but the thing they overlook is that there aren't any other tames that can replace a mana with the same dominance it has. Rebalancing manas won't just shift the meta to an equally OP tame because there aren't any equally OP tames, what it would do is cut down on the number of players who would feel confident enough to continue the same level of griefing that we currently see happening right now.

30 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

Everything you said is spot on. Except one thing. Mana can take on a Tuso if the rider uses sea mines that will insta kill Tuso rider if it gets close to him. And mines can be placed while on the saddle. 
 

so it’s even worse....

Yeah I was more talking from the standpoint of a mana not being able to attack in water and trying to leave more foot pvp kind of options out of the picture, though I guess its not technically foot pvp in this case but hopefully you get what i mean

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9 minutes ago, Topherrrrrrrrrrrrr said:

Okay cool, so lets say they nerf mana

Bobs can kill manas now

You kill the mana, and they never come back? They're just going to leave you alone until a different group wipes you?

They will come back and bring friends because it's "fun pvp" for them, rinse and repeat until you're wiped and they will bring whatever dinos the want, even if it's not a mana. You will start making forum posts about how that dino is imbalanced and we'll be back to square 1. So from that standpoint, how does nerfing mana help you?

It's not an issue of making mana's easy to kill, it's about leaving room for other tames to compete with them.

They don't come back with friends to wipe a bob that they lost to because of "fun pvp". They come back with friends and more gear because of ego. Making manas more balanced, and by balanced it's not just making them weaker but changing them or other creatures to provide adequate counters, means that anyone from a mega can't just mass breed a single super tame and head out to pick on everyone weaker than them. They would have to take on more risk each time they go out for pvp, which would absolutely deter a significant number of griefers out there.

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22 minutes ago, Topherrrrrrrrrrrrr said:

Okay cool, so lets say they nerf mana

Bobs can kill manas now

You kill the mana, and they never come back? They're just going to leave you alone until a different group wipes you?

They will come back and bring friends because it's "fun pvp" for them, rinse and repeat until you're wiped and they will bring whatever dinos the want, even if it's not a mana. You will start making forum posts about how that dino is imbalanced and we'll be back to square 1. So from that standpoint, how does nerfing mana help you?

Make it just much harder to tame, thats all. So griefers cant tame it so easly and loosing Mana is not a problem.

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Best advice I can give revolves around two things. Bobs need to transfer to AB server naked run a z plant grab some seeds and bring them back home. The grenade fruit is the best counter to manas. 
 

Once dismounted whistle attack on him by Dinos that can further CC him. Like a raptor pack. Try to bola him. 
 

Again this is advice for bob low tech options. 

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16 minutes ago, Cascco said:

"Best advice I can give revolves around two things. Bobs need to transfer to AB server naked run a z plant grab some seeds and bring them back home. The grenade fruit is the best counter to manas. "

There are some other plant than X and Y  ?

Use the quote feature so I get alert you asked me a question. 
 

yes it’s on aberration map

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On 3/2/2021 at 9:30 AM, slejo said:

 

Using OP manas dont bend PVP, it breaks it definitely.

For example Aberration... this map could be baallanced if the only dinos allowed would be native ones.
- no manas
- no gasbags
- no hover skiff
.. then Rock Drake is the king, Reaper become Queen again, Ravagers + zip lines are useful again.

Today Aberration PVP is sad place. Zero balance. Zero wisdom.
 

 

This. This is how most of the official pvp community feels. Very on point.

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3 hours ago, Usuallyafk said:

This. This is how most of the official pvp community feels. Very on point.

It's just bad game design. Balance 101 tells you that if something has insane maneuverability and speed, then it cant also have jacked up health AND damage output AND the ability to stun lock or it will be way out of balance. 

Believe it or not I didnt have to attend 4 years of gaming college to understand that one. If only the big AAA gaming studio could...

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This is just an opinion based on anecdotal experience, but I thought Ark PvP was much more fun before the mana was introduced.

I don't know if the timing of devolving PvP strategies and exploits just happened to coincide with when manas came out.

But just thinking about their attributes, manas seem to be as ridiculous as they look. 

Also anecdotal, but each server that I have spent time on has at least one player that uses every exploit to make the game as miserable as possible for everyone else, and they always seem to be on a mana.

So I am not a fan.

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Posted (edited)

So Wild Card will nothing do with it even if majority of ppl writing here is trying to say smth should be done and than they want us to buy ARK 2. If you cant balance and listen to ppl in ARK 1 how the hell you want us to buy ARK 2 ? Cant you just learn from other developers how to care of your game. At least try to take care of those who still plays....its not a big deal.

Someone said that if Dino moves quickly than player can see hidden bases cause structures shows first before trees and rocks is that true ? That could explain why ppl get raided even if they hide base. And i think thats why its always Mana who kills dinos. If it jumps so fast than there is no hope to hide a base, as i can see the same with Bloodstalker. 

Edited by Cascco
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11 hours ago, Cascco said:

So Wild Card will nothing do with it even if majority of ppl writing here is trying to say smth should be done and than they want us to buy ARK 2. If you cant balance and listen to ppl in ARK 1 how the hell you want us to buy ARK 2 ? Cant you just learn from other developers how to care of your game. At least try to take care of those who still plays....its not a big deal.

They don't care what people say now. They will not be in a future.

Edited by slejo
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