Code of conduct: Easy to explain, hard to resolve

[Angelsurreal]

Easy to explain hard to resolve ------------

A friend  who is the owner on some PvE genesis server got a insider incident, ( i know whats wildcare answer about insiders "set up your rank tribe for avoid it"),
but maybe theys are forgetting something important:

The Code of conduct rules dnt mess with the responsability of every owner on the tribe, but what about if the insider violate the settings on a tribe?

look, my friend the owner of his tribe know how to rank the members inside, avoiding make "admins" to everyone and avoiding make new structures or demo, what happend then?
the insider a experiment one on PVE, beside maybe some external friend use some skills for destroy the half of the base maybe with tek riffles , bring down walls of a room where was the cryopods with magmasaurs tamed or even aggroing from the wild helped  with him external friend, and steal around 300 dino pods from the room supossed been blocked for the rank system, plus killing the external tamed dinos only for fun, 
i mean some players are old and know every trick for find "holes on the contract" like this situation for avoid every report.

i need know what we can do about it, we can report it as well and how?, or everyone on the ark can do that always avoiding every report like thems?, i mean the "legal theft" is allowed cuz the responsability of every owner when tribed someone, but what about if the "insiders" break the settings of the rank system made for the develovers with that tricks?;
Plus ---- why we have rank system if everyone can easy break it?

thank you for read.
 

[Joebl0w13]

2 minutes ago, Angelsurreal said:

i need know what we can do about it, we can report it as well and how?,

Nothing you can do about it. You can report it but since they didn't break any rules, support probably won't do much.

The rank system isn't perfect for sure. You have to trust people you let into your tribe.

 

[Thyme]

I don’t think WC will do anything about it, tribe rules are your responsibility, you shouldn’t let some random into your tribe.

[Angelsurreal]

1 minute ago, Thyme said:

I don’t think WC will do anything about it, tribe rules are your responsibility, you shouldn’t let some random into your tribe.

yes, i cleary understand it, but why we have rank systems then? it have no sense if anyone can break it easy did u think?

[Joebl0w13]

1 minute ago, Angelsurreal said:

yes, i cleary understand it, but why we have rank systems then? it have no sense if anyone can break it easy did u think?

The rank system isn't there to protect you from randos in your tribe.

[Angelsurreal]

Just now, Joebl0w13 said:

The rank system isn't there to protect you from randos in your tribe.

whats the real function of the rank system then? cuz if anyone can "destroy" everything inside with some easy tricks. the rank system have no sense maybe, u cant put codes on ur vaults or pods. cuz some not honest member can destroy it as well someday.

 

[Joebl0w13]

1 minute ago, Angelsurreal said:

whats the real function of the rank system then? cuz if anyone can "destroy" everything inside with some easy tricks. the rank system have no sense maybe, u cant put codes on ur vaults or pods. cuz some not honest member can destroy it as well someday.

 

I don't think it was well thought out to begin with.

[johnm81]

WC wants risk involved in everything that you do from taming to harvesting to inviting to your tribe. 
 

Ever consider that the system has risks of insiding built into on purpose?

 

[Joebl0w13]

Just now, johnm81 said:

WC wants risk involved in everything that you do from taming to harvesting to inviting to your tribe. 
 

Ever consider that the system has risks of insiding built into on purpose?

 

Another good theory. When you look at the game overall, it looks as if it was built for trolls in mind.

[johnm81]

1 minute ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Another good theory. When you look at the game overall, it looks as if it was built for trolls in mind.

Built for conflict and strife. Drama is engaging so they built upon that. 

[Angelsurreal]

29 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

Built for conflict and strife. Drama is engaging so they built upon that. 

oh sure! i was considering even the crashes and lag is part of the rockwell lore, u know rockwell make us crash and lag cuz the corrupted system,
even that the rank system have no sense cuz all can work like this without put a rank system if i point on it,  its useless.

[Oldster]

 I stumbled through maybe half of this before giving up, that said, remember that the code of conduct is there to protect their profits. Preempt lawsuits, Etc. Any effects it has on your enjoyment of a game are incidental.

 think of it like lawyer-speak, or insurance policies. Deliberately obtuse as a first buffer against anyone actually understanding or using it.

[Joebl0w13]

3 minutes ago, Oldster said:

 I stumbled through maybe half of this before giving up, that said, remember that the code of conduct is there to protect their profits. Preempt lawsuits, Etc. Any effects it has on your enjoyment of a game are incidental.

 think of it like lawyer-speak, or insurance policies. Deliberately obtuse as a first buffer against anyone actually understanding or using it.

You're thinking of a EULA. The CoC has nothing to do with any of that. It's literally a set of rules for playing on an official server.

[yekrucifixion187]

2 minutes ago, Oldster said:

 I stumbled through maybe half of this before giving up, that said, remember that the code of conduct is there to protect their profits. Preempt lawsuits, Etc. Any effects it has on your enjoyment of a game are incidental.

 think of it like lawyer-speak, or insurance policies. Deliberately obtuse as a first buffer against anyone actually understanding or using it.

What lawsuits? Lol. It's to govern their FREE Official servers. That's it. They can shut them all down tomorrow and they would be fine because they only need to provide a working single player version and the content you paid for (maps and promised dinos). The official servers are probably funded under their advertising budget since that is what they are. 

 

Rank system is designed to govern a normao functioning tribe. OP's claim of "easy" to destroy is not really the case. Easy would be a low level Bob waltzing in and having his way. Your friend, unfortunately, allowed an outsider in but that outsider had to do a boss fight to unlock the tek rifle and then acquire a tek rifle. End game items. Not technically easy. If they couldn't use the tek rifle then they'd need to craft C4. Mid tier item, again not technically easy. It requires a time and material investment.  

A dedicated troll will always find a way. The ranking system is designed to frustrate and thwart the basic troll.

[Bobo1234]

The CoC is garbage and pocket GM's won't ban their friends.

 

[johnm81]

5 hours ago, Angelsurreal said:

i was considering even the crashes and lag is part of the rockwell lore

do so only if you are dumb

[Pipinghot]

10 hours ago, Angelsurreal said:

Easy to explain hard to resolve ------------

A friend  who is the owner on some genesis server got a insider incident, ( i know whats wildcare answer about insiders "set up your rank tribe for avoid it"),
but maybe theys are forgetting something important:

The Code of conduct rules dnt mess with the responsability of every owner on the tribe, but what about if the insider violate the settings on a tribe?

look, my friend the owner of his tribe know how to rank the members inside, avoiding make "admins" to everyone and avoiding make new structures or demo, what happend then?
the insider a experiment one on PVE, beside maybe some external friend use some skills for destroy the half of the base maybe with tek riffles , bring down walls of a room where was the cryopods with magmasaurs tamed or even aggroing from the wild helped  with him external friend, and steal around 300 dino pods from the room supossed been blocked for the rank system, plus killing the external tamed dinos only for fun, 
i mean some players are old and know every trick for find "holes on the contract" like this situation for avoid every report.

i need know what we can do about it, we can report it as well and how?, or everyone on the ark can do that always avoiding every report like thems?, i mean the "legal theft" is allowed cuz the responsability of every owner when tribed someone, but what about if the "insiders" break the settings of the rank system made for the develovers with that tricks?;
Plus ---- why we have rank system if everyone can easy break it?

thank you for read.
 

Insiding a tribe is completely legal on PvP, no matter how they do it.

Using the settings to prevent someone from insiding you is protection, but it's not a guarantee. Tricking your tribe is not "violating" the settings, the settings are not rules that WildCard will punish people for violating. No matter how you set up your ranks you can still be insided and that is definitely intended by WildCard to be allowed.

If someone joined your tribe as a spy and they had an external friend help them by destroying walls, that is completely legal, there is nothing that WildCard will do about it.

As for your question, "why we have rank system if everyone can easy break it?" Again, tribe ranks are not a guarantee, they just force people to plan more and work harder if they're trying to hurt you.

 

[Angelsurreal]

5 hours ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

What lawsuits? Lol. It's to govern their FREE Official servers. That's it. They can shut them all down tomorrow and they would be fine because they only need to provide a working single player version and the content you paid for (maps and promised dinos). The official servers are probably funded under their advertising budget since that is what they are. 

 

Rank system is designed to govern a normao functioning tribe. OP's claim of "easy" to destroy is not really the case. Easy would be a low level Bob waltzing in and having his way. Your friend, unfortunately, allowed an outsider in but that outsider had to do a boss fight to unlock the tek rifle and then acquire a tek rifle. End game items. Not technically easy. If they couldn't use the tek rifle then they'd need to craft C4. Mid tier item, again not technically easy. It requires a time and material investment.  

A dedicated troll will always find a way. The ranking system is designed to frustrate and thwart the basic troll.

Hello, thank you for ur answer, when i said "easy" isnt necesary the troll crafted all or invested time for himself. it will be helped for another mind that only give the stuff needed for make the "inside", bobs are not bob anymore, since time ago , at this days is a bit more easy to have a base well seted up,  u know everyone have a good anky, for get materials, even there are ppl that buy for real money some basic dinos or stuff and its "easy" get hidden stuff for real money and w8 for the "inside",  
did u think if everyone can know it as well. and everyone decide test the insider method to each other since nobody can be banned? it will turn Pve into PVP, it will be a mess , TONS of insiders trying to steal each other,   u have right when u said "The ranking system is designed to frustrate and thwart the basic troll." YES, the basic troll only need take 1-2 months to turn into a expert troll.
also, what about if a member luring wild magmas to destroy his own base beside other friends? these guys are doing it all the time and know every trick, aggroing wild dinos to destroy bases isnt a break on the coc? 

 

[Angelsurreal]

3 hours ago, johnm81 said:

do so only if you are dumb

"WC wants risk involved in everything that you do from taming to harvesting to inviting to your tribe. 
Ever consider that the system has risks of insiding built into on purpose?"

Answering: 
assuming u are saying that somethings have a risk  on purpose, u need consider that everything on the game is a risk to, even the lag isnt?
and why not? look the servers its always a risk to fly cuz u can crash above the water  and fall to drown urself.
its a point of view only, i am just saying why u take time invested on programig codes for a game to setting a ranks on a tribe thats dnt work as well? 
the same question:  what if everyone on the ark going to wanna be insiders? what about if there is a TUTO on youtube. "how to be a insider on PVE easy not banneable"
did u think in the mess? i cant find sense on that.

[Angelsurreal]

1 hour ago, Pipinghot said:

Insiding a tribe is completely legal on PvP, no matter how they do it.

Using the settings to prevent someone from insiding you is protection, but it's not a guarantee. Tricking your tribe is not "violating" the settings, the settings are not rules that WildCard will punish people for violating. No matter how you set up your ranks you can still be insided and that is definitely intended by WildCard to be allowed.

If someone joined your tribe as a spy and they had an external friend help them by destroying walls, that is completely legal, there is nothing that WildCard will do about it.

As for your question, "why we have rank system if everyone can easy break it?" Again, tribe ranks are not a guarantee, they just force people to plan more and work harder if they're trying to hurt you.

 

i agree what are u saying,  Ranks on a tribe dnt guarantee nothing that sentence is really true, but sadily its not writing on somewhere for alert new players for it, did u think a new player will comeback after the insider method? even the old players left the game.  i know many friends wich isnt playing anymore cuz that. 
now imagine this announcement: ..  "news , everyone need be insider cuz is the a new method to get stuffs, everyone is allowed to try to destroy his own protected bases" "nobody will be reported or banned, come try this new method!" also appear many tutorials on youtube about to trick the bases on PVE .... its not a bit of chaos? 
also u need know the base already destroyed on the post was with  a wild magmas too , its insanely think how u can demo ur own walls aggroing to urself to get a blocked room. its not consider grieff luring dinos to another bases?

 

[Oldster]

20 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

You're thinking of a EULA. The CoC has nothing to do with any of that. It's literally a set of rules for playing on an official server.

Fair. But they're both public facing promises and so are based on the same underlying drives.

[Joebl0w13]

1 minute ago, Oldster said:

Fair. But they're both public facing promises and so are based on the same underlying drives.

Well one is just a set of rules closer to Terms and Conditions (not legally binding). The other is a binding contract.

[yekrucifixion187]

19 hours ago, Angelsurreal said:

, what about if a member luring wild magmas to destroy his own base beside other friends? these guys are doing it all the time and know every trick, aggroing wild dinos to destroy bases isnt a break on the coc? 

No. Why would it be? 

The owner can kick anybody at any time for any reason from his tribe but it is a tribe. That troll isn't destroying a random person's base who has no connection. He/she is destroying their own base. Perfectly legal by CoC. You can kill all your dino's. Despawn all your loot. Really just play the game as you want as long as it does not affect an unwilling participants play but once in a tribe, you are a willing participant to any other tribemates actions. That is why a whole tribe could be banned for one cheater in their ranks. 

The CoC covers outside interference not inner turmoil. 

Your friend has the option to play solo. Your friend has the option to join tribes only with people you personally know. He chose to accept strangers. If you feel the need to have tribe ranks to govern people in your tribe then it's probably not a good idea to have them in a tribe with your important stuff.

If he decides to recruit strangers in the future he should keep a back up and the most important stuff in a solo tribe on a different server to protect it. 

 

[Pipinghot]

20 hours ago, Angelsurreal said:

i agree what are u saying,  Ranks on a tribe dnt guarantee nothing that sentence is really true, but sadily its not writing on somewhere for alert new players for it, did u think a new player will comeback after the insider method? even the old players left the game.  i know many friends wich isnt playing anymore cuz that. 
now imagine this announcement: ..  "news , everyone need be insider cuz is the a new method to get stuffs, everyone is allowed to try to destroy his own protected bases" "nobody will be reported or banned, come try this new method!" also appear many tutorials on youtube about to trick the bases on PVE .... its not a bit of chaos? 
also u need know the base already destroyed on the post was with  a wild magmas too , its insanely think how u can demo ur own walls aggroing to urself to get a blocked room. its not consider grieff luring dinos to another bases?

You asked a question, "did u think a new player will comeback after the insider method?"

There are two answers to that question:

1) Yes. It goes way beyond what I merely "think", I know it for a fact. Thousands and thousands of new players have "come back" after being insided. Obviously some people won't come back but many, many people have, in fact, already come back from that happening again and again over the years. You're not the first tribe to be insided, this is nothing new.

2) Even if that was only my opinion (and it's not, it's an actual fact) you're asking the wrong person, it's WildCard that makes those decisions. This game has been around for 5+ years now, and during all that time WildCard has allowed people to inside tribes, which means it should be obvious that WildCard is happy to keep letting that happen.

 

"even the old players left the game" - No. Some old players have left the game, just like some old players leave every game. There is no such thing as a game that keeps all of its players. Even the easiest games have old players that leave, you are making a mistake to assume that just because you know people who have left the game that the game is having problems.

What you're overlooking is that many old players move to PvE or solo and even more of them move to Unofficial servers. You may not be aware of this, but about 90% of the players in ARK are playing on Unofficial servers, including many Unofficial PvP servers. There are many people who don't like Official PvP that move to an Unofficial PvP server which uses rules that those players like.

ARK is not just one game, it's not just "Official PvP servers", it's actually multiple games in one. With Official, Unofficial, PvP, PvE, dedicated, non-dedicated, local/host and many different types of mods. It's true that many people don't like Official PvP, and that's for a good reason because Official PvP is brutal, all day every day, it's brutal. But there are other ways to play ARK that people can enjoy if they don't like Official PvP.

 

""news , everyone need be insider cuz is the a new method to get stuffs, everyone is allowed to try to destroy his own protected bases" "nobody will be reported or banned, come try this new method!" - It's not new, it's just new to you. The lesson you need to learn from this experience is that PvP is brutal, much more brutal than most games. If you don't like that type of PvP then you have to decide whether you want to play ARK a different way or if you want to play a different game. You might not like it but lots of other people do like it. And just so you know, I don't like Official PvP either, I played it and it wasn't fun for me. I'm not trying to tell you that you have to like it, but I am telling you that it's not going to change because of what you want. Either you learn to play ARK PvP on the Official servers the way that WildCard has designed it, or you have to decide whether you're going to play a different game or at least a different mode of ARK.

 

"its not a bit of chaos?" - Yes, it is a bit of chaos. Actually it's a lot of chaos, and that's what WildCard wants, that's how they want Official PvP to work. They built the game so that there would be a lot of chaos and so that players would constantly destroy each other's stuff, and would constantly have to worry about being stabbed in the back, that's exactly what WildCard intended when they designed the game.

 

"also u need know the base already destroyed on the post was with  a wild magmas too , its insanely think how u can demo ur own walls aggroing to urself to get a blocked room. its not consider grieff luring dinos to another bases?"

It's not considered griefing in PvP. As long as you aren't breaking the game rules (like meshing) then there's no such thing as griefing in PvP. The whole point of PvP is to grief other players as much as possible.

[Bobo1234]

Insiding is part of the game lol. Don't invite random people and give them full access to your base.

Would you let a random person into your house and leave them alone with your stuff?