Mantis damage formula explanation

[AleTitan]

I'm trying to figure out the exact formula behind the damage of the Mantis with no weapon equipped and with a weapon equipped. I can't explain some result i get

I play on my Server (unofficial), single player settings, no value about stat adjusted in the config file. Floating damage numbers activated

 

Mantis standard (left mouse click) base damage value: 34

Primitive Sword with 100% Melee Damage base damage value: 90

ATM: Unsolved case 5 and 6

Case 1 "Solved": Mantis ridden by me, no imprinting, Melee Damage: 336 %. I hit a Wild Raptor for 114 damage (Solved: 34 * 3,36 = 114,24)

Case 2 "Solved": Mantis ridden by me, no imprinting, Melee Damage: 496,3 %. I hit a Wild Phiomia for 168 damage (Solved: 34 * 4,963 = 168,742) 

Case 3 ! "Solved": Mantis ridden by me, no imprinting, Melee Damage: 336 %, equipped with a Primitive Sword with 100% Melee Damage. I hit a Wild Raptor for 333 damage (Solved: (34 + 90) * 0,80 * 3,36 = 333,312) 

Case 4 ! "Solved": Mantis unridden, Melee Damage: 396,2 %, equipped with a Primitive Sword with 100% Melee Damage. I hit a Wild Raptor for 393 damage (Solved: (34 + 90) * 0,80 * 3,962 = 393,0304) 

Case 5 ! "Not Solved": Mantis ridden by me, no imprinting, Melee Damage: 336 %, equipped with an Ascendant Sword with 223,1% Melee Damage. I hit a Wild Raptor for 430 damage (Not Solved: (34 + 90) * 0,80 * 2,231 * 3,36 = 743,619072 <<< ???) 

Case 6 ! "Not Solved": Mantis ridden by me, no imprinting, Melee Damage: 657,3 %, equipped with an Ascendant Sword with 254,2% Melee Damage. I hit a Wild Raptor for 888 damage (Not Solved: (34 + 90) * 0,80 * 2,542 * 6,573 = 1657,4897472 <<< ???) 

I replicate the test more and more time with the same results

Someone can help? 

EDIT 13/Nov.: Solved Case 3 and 4, Added Case 6

[Thyme]

I have no idea what singeplayer settings change exactly so that could make things weird. Make sure the raptors aren't mate or pack boosted either.

What I do know is that the mantis base damage and the weapon base damage are in the formula somewhere, so the 34 and 90 are involved. 

[AleTitan]

1 minute ago, Thyme said:

I have no idea what singeplayer settings change exactly so that could make things weird. Make sure the raptors aren't mate or pack boosted either.

What I do know is that the mantis base damage and the weapon base damage are in the formula somewhere, so the 34 and 90 are involved. 

I can make sure they weren't mate or pack boosted

[schwarzy]

-

[AleTitan]

up

[wizard03]

Im guessing the ascendent thing is whats screwing things up.....with that said, I have noticed my "slightly" adjusted stats with an ascendent club is the greatest thing ever at knocking creatures out now. XD

https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/wizardo3/video/111432768

[Luewen]

What is the 0.80 in your formula?

[yekrucifixion187]

@invincibleqc you normally can break this stuff down. Any insight?

[AleTitan]

6 hours ago, Luewen said:

What is the 0.80 in your formula?

empirically I tested the sword equipped by my character, with 100% Melee Damage, against the same targets and I noticed that I did 72 damage instead of 90. So 90 * 0.80 = 72. I therefore assumed that the same applicator also applied to the Mantis when attacked creatures, in the cases 3 and 4 i replicated and the calculation are correct. So i assume, in some ways, that wild dinos have a reduction, like an armor, of 1/5 (0,80)

[AleTitan]

3 hours ago, FateRover said:

case 1  and case 2 r correct，but case2+ ， I see another formulas ,this chinese guy do  alot test ,but i dont understant his formula ,asked him for replying

 

Thank you,  could you give me link to that page? i just need the text to  translate  to  english

[invincibleqc]

15 hours ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

@invincibleqc you normally can break this stuff down. Any insight?

The problem is the base values used there:

On 11/12/2020 at 8:55 AM, AleTitan said:

Mantis standard (left mouse click) base damage value: 34

Primitive Sword with 100% Melee Damage base damage value: 90

You can't use those values as base because they are already transformed. You have to break down the entire calculation as explained there:

With that said, we can easily negate what was applied and get the correct results. For example:

On 11/12/2020 at 8:55 AM, AleTitan said:

Case 5 ! "Not Solved": Mantis ridden by me, no imprinting, Melee Damage: 336 %, equipped with an Ascendant Sword with 223,1% Melee Damage. I hit a Wild Raptor for 430 damage (Not Solved: (34 + 90) * 0,80 * 2,231 * 3,36 = 743,619072 <<< ???) 

First of, the weapon multiplier isn't inserted at the right place, as it only affects the output damage (the 90 in that example). But anyways, we can get to the right results with the following:

((34 + (90 * (1.231 * 0.80))) * 3.36) + (90 * 0.2) = 430.04352

2.231 was replaced to 1.231 because the 90 used already have the base 100% applied and then we have to add (90 * 0.2) because it also had the 0.80 multiplier applied. In conclusion, you won't get accurate result if you use output that are already transformed, rounded, etc. and have to re-apply all the multipliers/adjusters in order and at the right time.

[Luewen]

2 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

The problem is the base values used there:

You can't use those values as base because they are already transformed. You have to break down the entire calculation as explained there:

With that said, we can easily negate what was applied and get the correct results. For example:

First of, the weapon multiplier isn't inserted at the right place, as it only affects the output damage (the 90 in that example). But anyways, we can get to the right results with the following:

((34 + (90 * (1.231 * 0.80))) * 3.36) + (90 * 0.2) = 430.04352

2.231 was replaced to 1.231 because the 90 used already have the base 100% applied and then we have to add (90 * 0.2) because it also had the 0.80 multiplier applied. In conclusion, you won't get accurate result if you use output that are already transformed, rounded, etc. and have to re-apply all the multipliers/adjusters in order and at the right time.

So the wild creatures do have innate armor or damage reduction? Thus the 0.2 reduction.

[invincibleqc]

56 minutes ago, Luewen said:

So the wild creatures do have innate armor or damage reduction? Thus the 0.2 reduction.

As stated in the link I posted:

Quote

That is correct, as you can see in the adjusters listed above:

DmgType_Melee_Human = 0.8 // 7

Most creature inherits that adjuster from their base class, so they should all or the majority of them be 20% resistant to player damage.

And since the incoming damage is from a Sword that deals that type of damage, an adjuster of 0.8 is applied.

[AleTitan]

14 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

The problem is the base values used there:

You can't use those values as base because they are already transformed. You have to break down the entire calculation as explained there:

With that said, we can easily negate what was applied and get the correct results. For example:

First of, the weapon multiplier isn't inserted at the right place, as it only affects the output damage (the 90 in that example). But anyways, we can get to the right results with the following:

((34 + (90 * (1.231 * 0.80))) * 3.36) + (90 * 0.2) = 430.04352

2.231 was replaced to 1.231 because the 90 used already have the base 100% applied and then we have to add (90 * 0.2) because it also had the 0.80 multiplier applied. In conclusion, you won't get accurate result if you use output that are already transformed, rounded, etc. and have to re-apply all the multipliers/adjusters in order and at the right time.

Thank you for your  time

I tried but i can't adapt your formula for my calculations: Mantis equipped with 100% sword. Could you help one more time?

[Luewen]

23 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

As stated in the link I posted:

And since the incoming damage is from a Sword that deals that type of damage, an adjuster of 0.8 is applied.

Thank you. 
Though, is the resistamce only against damage sources from player character or ridden tamed dinos also? And does mantis carrying weapon counted animal or human?

[invincibleqc]

On 11/15/2020 at 9:15 AM, AleTitan said:

Thank you for your  time

I tried but i can't adapt your formula for my calculations: Mantis equipped with 100% sword. Could you help one more time?

I will have a look when I get the chance. Not sure when that will be though, but I bookmarked that thread as a reminder. What did you test anyways?

On 11/15/2020 at 9:40 PM, Luewen said:

Thank you. 
Though, is the resistamce only against damage sources from player character or ridden tamed dinos also? And does mantis carrying weapon counted animal or human?

Most creatures carry a 0.8 adjuster for incoming damage of type DmgType_Melee_Human. So if the damage is dealt by a melee weapon, regardless if that weapon is carried by an actual player or a Mantis, then it will be applied. Basically, the damage type is determined by the weapon here, no who is holding it.

[Sarren]

It looks to me like the % weapon damage is actually added to the 34 damage, not the 90 and not the (34 + 90). I get ~445 from case 5 and 928 for case 6. Not exactly correct, but perhaps this is closer to the actual calculation.