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8 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

Helena has absolutely no information feed from the GenSim aside from HLN-A, as evidenced by how Helena was constantly asking HLN-A for status reports and such. Helena is therefore completely disconnected from the GenSim except for that brief moment at Arat Prime.

Contactless communication = wireless, don't mind me spilling my spaghetti when I type. Basically, any two pieces of element are constantly in communication with eachother, similar to how two phones that are connected to the internet are in constant communication with eachother.
 

Ok, the part with Helena asking for status reports is plausible.

8 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

Corruption is a great example of this, yes. I'm sure that it was mentioned somewhere else in the notes though, although I don't quite have the time to go over them all right now to find it.

Does anyone else then know where this could be mentioned ? Would probably be in the extinction ones since they are the first set to explore the element in detail, but I read the notes of the one who waits the other day and I don't think it was mentioned there 

Edit: I'm meaning the thing with any two pieces of element communicating, not the corruption

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Dunno about your thoughts on how well it swims, that's gonna be a 'let's see' for me, but as for water, there's plenty of water we can see at the bottom of the trench, which by my guess, is pretty big

Actually the simulation doesn’t simulate where we are going. That was never it’s purpose. It was to get us ready for the extremes. Every environment and creature was taken to a extreme so we are ready

Interesting idea. The element on this planet could be element in its natural form and coexists with the life on the planet. An amount of element could have then traveled to Earth by methods unkno

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40 minutes ago, Fes said:

Ok, the part with Helena asking for status reports is plausible.

Does anyone else then know where this could be mentioned ? Would probably be in the extinction ones since they are the first set to explore the element in detail, but I read the notes of the one who waits the other day and I don't think it was mentioned there 

Edit: I'm meaning the thing with any two pieces of element communicating, not the corruption

I really, really could've sworn that I'd read something years ago about element talking to itself, but I can't seem to find it again in the notes.

So I don't have evidence for my original claim that every two pieces can talk to eachother, but we do still know that element can talk to itself, and it's constantly pulsing energy-
Oh, that was the reason, right in its description! The element is always described as 'humming with energy,' which doesn't automatically mean communication, but what other purpose could the constant pulsing of energy serve besides communication? Keep in mind that the refined element used in the Arks is just that: Refined. If it was just an inefficient quirk of element itself, it would've been worked out.
Conclusion: Since all element is doing the humming thing, all element is communicating.

So maybe not every two pieces can see eachother like I had been thinking, but it's likely that any Element on earth could see any other element on Earth via the element internet (elenet?)

14 hours ago, ArkTheoryApprentice said:

I now believe that we are actually seeing regular tek in Genesis. The tek tools we craft are described as "off brand" by Diana on AB. The reason they're jagged is to show that they are not at their full manufactured potential. The obelisks are manufactured tek, (Manf-Tek), while our tools aren't. Genesis is built entirely around Manf-Tek.

I also think you should go have a look at the observeation deck again. The metal there (not including the element tube stuff, obviously) also has the jagged look, and ARKs were one of the final creations of tek; they're both some of the most important and most advanced tek things you could find. The only tek things that could be beyond the ARKs would be the homo deus and, if we assume I'm wrong (I'm not) and the GenSim isn't lunatek, the GenSim.
So basically, tek has the jagged look all throughout, so even if some of the new stuff we'll see isn't lunatek, it still has an obviously different design pattern.

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1 hour ago, TinyHippo said:

I really, really could've sworn that I'd read something years ago about element talking to itself, but I can't seem to find it again in the notes.

Maybe you remberered a passage about Rockwell feeling like the element talked to him ?

1 hour ago, TinyHippo said:

Oh, that was the reason, right in its description! The element is always described as 'humming with energy,' which doesn't automatically mean communication, but what other purpose could the constant pulsing of energy serve besides communication? Keep in mind that the refined element used in the Arks is just that: Refined. If it was just an inefficient quirk of element itself, it would've been worked out.
Conclusion: Since all element is doing the humming thing, all element is communicating.

So maybe not every two pieces can see eachother like I had been thinking, but it's likely that any Element on earth could see any other element on Earth via the element internet (elenet?)

The element that is described to be humming with energy and pulsing sometimes ( Rockwell described the pieces of element he had as almost feeling like they had a heartbeat) is the refined version of it. We know that it has different properties in its different forms:

"The uses for it were beyond counting. Hardier than tungsten. More versatile than copper. In the right form, its ability to generate electricity and produce radiation were unrivaled. It's no surprise then that things moved quickly - impact, discovery, invention and production. All in rapid succession."

I mean the element in this form is something that seems to be something overflowing with energy so i'm not that sure if i would say it's communicating because of that.

In spite of that i would still agree with you that it's in contact in one way or another. That being said i think this only applies to the more raw, original version of it, aka the element growing on extinction (not sure about the molten element on aberration, can't say for sure if it actually does something or if rockwell was imagining things).

Thanks to Helenas Notes as a homo deus we know that it's kinda alive and it has rudimentary emotions, which kinda carry over to things infected with the element:

"What's clear is that it's merciless. Unfeeling. It's driven by base instincts and primal emotion - propagation, hunger, and hatred - and it spreads those to its shadows. Hatred most of all."

To conclude, i would say you're right about it communicating in some way, but i wouldn't describe it as some sort of "element internet" as it's much more organic, it's a bit more like nerve tracks if that makes sense ?

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15 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

If it had came from an archive somewhere, then surely HLN-A could find information on them. No one, including HLN-A, knows anything about it besides what they've seen, so it would make sense that the bladewasp is a new creature that came from the GenSim instead of being designed and introduced to the GenSim like the magmasaur was

She knows as much about the Bladewasps as the survivors shes with. What makes you think this isn't the case with the Magmasaur as well. They simply know more about the Magmasaur than the Bladewasp. She calls the Bog Spider a boogeyman because she simply doesn't have information on them, only on what their victims end up like. She simply doesn't know. 

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1 hour ago, Fes said:

Maybe you remberered a passage about Rockwell feeling like the element talked to him ?

The element that is described to be humming with energy and pulsing sometimes ( Rockwell described the pieces of element he had as almost feeling like they had a heartbeat) is the refined version of it. We know that it has different properties in its different forms:

"The uses for it were beyond counting. Hardier than tungsten. More versatile than copper. In the right form, its ability to generate electricity and produce radiation were unrivaled. It's no surprise then that things moved quickly - impact, discovery, invention and production. All in rapid succession."

I mean the element in this form is something that seems to be something overflowing with energy so i'm not that sure if i would say it's communicating because of that.

In spite of that i would still agree with you that it's in contact in one way or another. That being said i think this only applies to the more raw, original version of it, aka the element growing on extinction (not sure about the molten element on aberration, can't say for sure if it actually does something or if rockwell was imagining things).

Thanks to Helenas Notes as a homo deus we know that it's kinda alive and it has rudimentary emotions, which kinda carry over to things infected with the element:

"What's clear is that it's merciless. Unfeeling. It's driven by base instincts and primal emotion - propagation, hunger, and hatred - and it spreads those to its shadows. Hatred most of all."

To conclude, i would say you're right about it communicating in some way, but i wouldn't describe it as some sort of "element internet" as it's much more organic, it's a bit more like nerve tracks if that makes sense ?

I understand what you mean by it being more like nerve tracks than an internet, and actually agree, but I still don't think you're right.

The refined element that we play with is not overflowing with energy, the purple element is. The refined element that we play with is at a 'medium' energy level compared to other element. It makes no sense that it would just give off energy for no reason while it's not powering anything unless it's using that to talk with other element (or anything, for that matter.)

We also know that Aberration's purple element is different than Corruption element. The appearance and way that Rockwell's corruption works is just far too different from Earth's Corruption. Rockwell has, mostly, at least, not tried to corrupt other stuff and is just trying to take himself to godhood, which is far different that Corruption on Earth was.

20 minutes ago, Qwertymine said:

She knows as much about the Bladewasps as the survivors shes with. What makes you think this isn't the case with the Magmasaur as well. They simply know more about the Magmasaur than the Bladewasp. She calls the Bog Spider a boogeyman because she simply doesn't have information on them, only on what their victims end up like. She simply doesn't know. 

HLN-A knows more than the survivors because she can read data that's stored in some digital tek archive of some sort. We know this because of that ar game we did earlier where HLN-A answered Helena's questions. That's how she knew about the magmasaur, and how we know that the bladewasp is new.

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51 minutes ago, TinyHippo said:

The refined element that we play with is not overflowing with energy, the purple element is. The refined element that we play with is at a 'medium' energy level compared to other element. It makes no sense that it would just give off energy for no reason while it's not powering anything unless it's using that to talk with other element (or anything, for that matter.)

Even if it's at a medium energy level, why shouldn't it give off energy ? We are still talking about element here, a ressource powerful enough to power jetpacks, meks and forcefields. And all of that in it's refined state, where it seems to have less energy. I can only pull up the quote " In the right form, its ability to generate electricity and produce radiation were unrivaled. " again. The right form being the refined state ( i have to admit, it says nowhere that the other forms aren't usuable as well, but we use the refined element to power literally everything that is tek). Some elements give off energy in form of radiation all by themselves, so why shouldnt the element ( maybe in a different form though) ?

 

1 hour ago, TinyHippo said:

We also know that Aberration's purple element is different than Corruption element. The appearance and way that Rockwell's corruption works is just far too different from Earth's Corruption. Rockwell has, mostly, at least, not tried to corrupt other stuff and is just trying to take himself to godhood, which is far different that Corruption on Earth was.

i agree here though, it rockwells corruption definitely is different, it's more purposeful

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3 minutes ago, Fes said:

i agree here though, it rockwells corruption definitely is different, it's more purposeful

The corrupted creatures on Earth are controlled by the element itself (and/or king titan?), while Rockwell wants to control the beings affected by element himself, hence the different type of corruption.

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22 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

The corrupted creatures on Earth are controlled by the element itself (and/or king titan?)

The king Titan gets described as "a central nerve of the element that he came from" so yeah both is pretty accurate

 

24 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

while Rockwell wants to control the beings affected by element himself, hence the different type of corruption.

I would also say that it has something to do with the liquid element and other circumstances ( Rockwell experimenting with mixing human blood with element first, him later kinda becoming the new overseer etc. ) 

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19 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

Helena was only able to briefly enter the simulation because of Mei and Diana, and she was described, in your very quote, as being unable to stay there in the same way she can't stay in the real world.

If Helena and the Genesis Simulation are based around the same systems then they should be able to connect just fine. Element has some form of contactless communication, as we know, which would mean that two things that are based off element should always be able to 'connect' via the tek 'internet' unless they're wildly different systems (corruption vs tek)

The implication is then that Helena is a wildly different system than the GenSim. We know that Helena can connect with the Arks and tek, so therefore, tek is wildly different than the GenSim.

Element dust cant be used in Tek equipment, yet it's still element.

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8 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

I also think you should go have a look at the observeation deck again. The metal there (not including the element tube stuff, obviously) also has the jagged look, and ARKs were one of the final creations of tek; they're both some of the most important and most advanced tek things you could find. The only tek things that could be beyond the ARKs would be the homo deus and, if we assume I'm wrong (I'm not) and the GenSim isn't lunatek, the GenSim.
So basically, tek has the jagged look all throughout, so even if some of the new stuff we'll see isn't lunatek, it still has an obviously different design pattern.

WhEe3ZezeEe....... 

Boi I haven't even killed the Broodmother yet

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5 hours ago, Fes said:

To conclude, i would say you're right about it communicating in some way, but i wouldn't describe it as some sort of "element internet" as it's much more organic, it's a bit more like nerve tracks if that makes sense ?

A good way to describe corrupted element is like mycelium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium

Except replace the fungi with element.

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59 minutes ago, Fes said:

Even if it's at a medium energy level, why shouldn't it give off energy ? We are still talking about element here, a ressource powerful enough to power jetpacks, meks and forcefields. And all of that in it's refined state, where it seems to have less energy. I can only pull up the quote " In the right form, its ability to generate electricity and produce radiation were unrivaled. " again. The right form being the refined state ( i have to admit, it says nowhere that the other forms aren't usuable as well, but we use the refined element to power literally everything that is tek). Some elements give off energy in form of radiation all by themselves, so why shouldnt the element ( maybe in a different form though) ?

My thoughts are basically that if it's been changed to suit the needs of humanity, then why would it waste any energy?

It makes sense that the walls at the observation deck and that area at the bottom of Aberration and the end of the tek cave that's made out of element to pulse energy out, because those spots are like hearts of the Arks that're using all that energy that's being passed around.

Well, I suppose it might have been just impossible at the time to stop it completely, but impossible all the way until the end of Earth? Unlikely.

The biggest and most convincing thing that tells me that element can talk to itself is that element things can function as computer-type stuff.
Basically, we know that tek is capable of performing non-mechanical movements that make no sense if it isn't told to do so from some sort of computer-like system (the doors opening, the large amount of small movements made when pulling out a tek gun or saddle, the jetpack activating on command, etc.)
These sorts of things require something to be able to communicate. Basic computations require communication because something has to tell something else to happen.

If we take the door as an example, it has to work in a certain way.
1) It notices someone nearby (requires communication from implant(?))
2) Checks if that person is authorized in the door's settings (requires communication from wherever the door stores its settings)
3) If 2 is passed successfully, open the door (requires connecting the other two systems and the door opening system)

So we already have three different things which have to communicate with each other for the door alone. Computations can not take place unless data can be transferred. Computers use electricity to do this, element uses whatever you want to call its energy.
So we know that element can compute things, and that it's constantly sending out energy. If computations are done by sending electricity today, then it's not a big jump at all to say that the element can transfer that data wirelessly by sending energy into the air instead of just the element that's touching it, in fact, I'd say that it's a bigger leap to say that it can't.

53 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

The corrupted creatures on Earth are controlled by the element itself (and/or king titan?), while Rockwell wants to control the beings affected by element himself, hence the different type of corruption.

The King Titan was an embodiment of the element, so it's not wrong to say that the Corruption was the King Titan and vice versa, in the same way that you could say that you and the rest of your body are the same person, with the king titan serving as the 'soul' or 'brain' of the Corruption.

I don't think Rockwell wants to control things affected by element exactly. By the end of Aberration, he became obsessed with 'ascending' and achieving godhood as well as destroying anyone that he thought had wronged him. I think he's really only interested in getting infinite power. This would mean he could control anything, but control is more of a side bonus. Rockwell just wants to become a god with the power of the element.

4 minutes ago, ArkTheoryApprentice said:

Element dust cant be used in Tek equipment, yet it's still element.

Element dust can't be used as fuel in most tek equipment, this is hardly the same thing. Element dust can't be used in place of normal element because it's doesn't have the energy for it. It's just too small. This isn't even close to the difference between the refined element and the Corruption element or Rockwell's corruption

 

I really need to come up with a catchy name for Rockwells brand of corruption though.

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2 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

The refined element that we play with is not overflowing with energy, the purple element is. The refined element that we play with is at a 'medium' energy level compared to other element. It makes no sense that it would just give off energy for no reason while it's not powering anything unless it's using that to talk with other element (or anything, for that matter.)

What about the "Element disturbances" within caves on the ARKs?

Those element-thingies are completely unexplained, and not only hum with energy, but also pulsate rhythmically, as if they posses a heartbeat??

Confusion.

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Just now, ArkTheoryApprentice said:

What about the "Element disturbances" within caves on the ARKs?

Those element-thingies are completely unexplained, and not only hum with energy, but also pulsate rhythmically, as if they posses a heartbeat??

Confusion.

They are rather unexplained, so the best we can do is guess.

The fact that they pulse with a rhythm (this is possibly the strangest spelt word I've seen in a very long time) gives further reason for me to believe the idea that it has a purpose and isn't just randomly releasing energy.

This is just a guess, we have no information on these things really, but I thought they were there to "look" at the cave, and let the System know what's down there. I thought the pulses that you see would kinda just map the cave after they become invisible with every pulse and keep track of everything there. No way to know for sure though, and it's interesting that HLN-A's notes are the same spire thing as the cave things.

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1 hour ago, TinyHippo said:

My thoughts are basically that if it's been changed to suit the needs of humanity, then why would it waste any energy?

It makes sense that the walls at the observation deck and that area at the bottom of Aberration and the end of the tek cave that's made out of element to pulse energy out, because those spots are like hearts of the Arks that're using all that energy that's being passed around.

Well, I suppose it might have been just impossible at the time to stop it completely, but impossible all the way until the end of Earth? Unlikely.

So if i got that right you're saying that they would have fixed the energy loss by the end of earth, but at the same time, the walls at the observation deck and the element walls on aberration still pulse ... just because theres a lot of energy going around at their locations? The arks where build pretty close to the end, so by then they should have fixed it, if it was possible ? Wouldn't it make sense and try to prevent "energy waste" from happening at some really vital components, if they could ?

1 hour ago, TinyHippo said:

The biggest and most convincing thing that tells me that element can talk to itself is that element things can function as computer-type stuff.

Basically, we know that tek is capable of performing non-mechanical movements that make no sense if it isn't told to do so from some sort of computer-like system (the doors opening, the large amount of small movements made when pulling out a tek gun or saddle, the jetpack activating on command, etc.)
These sorts of things require something to be able to communicate. Basic computations require communication because something has to tell something else to happen.

What makes you so sure that the element is doing the computer-type stuff ? We could also be dealing with some advanced electronics, but even that isn't neccessary.

All of the stuff you mentioned could very well be done by some regular old circuitry, like there is no need for the element to do any kind of computing job here. Let's take the tek door for example: A door that opens when you approach it. Why the heck would it specifically need element to communicate that ? It's a lot more plausible that it just uses some kind of motion sensor and that the element used building it plays some role in the door being a force-field. I mean it kinda works like your everyday automatic sliding door. Even all of the other things mentioned could be handled by regular circuitry.

2 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

So we already have three different things which have to communicate with each other for the door alone. Computations can not take place unless data can be transferred. Computers use electricity to do this, element uses whatever you want to call its energy.

But the element seems to be converting whatever it's energy is into electricity when used as fuel?

2 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

So we know that element can compute things, and that it's constantly sending out energy. If computations are done by sending electricity today, then it's not a big jump at all to say that the element can transfer that data wirelessly by sending energy into the air instead of just the element that's touching it, in fact, I'd say that it's a bigger leap to say that it can't.

I would just stick to the part with the current computations being done by electricity, instead of saying that the element has it's own way of transfering data wirelessly. There are more then enough ways to transmit data wirelessly already, like sure, the circuits in any kinds of tek would definitely be more advanced than anything from the current era, but i still don't see why it would be element based circuitry.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyWaffles said:

MasterCraft!

Booo! My dog can make mastercraft lasagna! Ascendant or nothing!

1 hour ago, Fes said:

So if i got that right you're saying that they would have fixed the energy loss by the end of earth, but at the same time, the walls at the observation deck and the element walls on aberration still pulse ... just because theres a lot of energy going around at their locations? The arks where build pretty close to the end, so by then they should have fixed it, if it was possible ? Wouldn't it make sense and try to prevent "energy waste" from happening at some really vital components, if they could ?

I'm saying that the places I mentioned are probably using that energy. So, the element is shooting out energy to be caught and used somewhere else. Like a wireless energy transfer. So the energy isn't being wasted, just moved around. Think about how the tek generator works; you can see the energy radiating out from it, and that energy powers tek buildings around it. That's what I think is going on in the 'heart' areas.

1 hour ago, Fes said:

What makes you so sure that the element is doing the computer-type stuff ? We could also be dealing with some advanced electronics, but even that isn't neccessary.

All of the stuff you mentioned could very well be done by some regular old circuitry, like there is no need for the element to do any kind of computing job here. Let's take the tek door for example: A door that opens when you approach it. Why the heck would it specifically need element to communicate that ? It's a lot more plausible that it just uses some kind of motion sensor and that the element used building it plays some role in the door being a force-field. I mean it kinda works like your everyday automatic sliding door. Even all of the other things mentioned could be handled by regular circuitry.

But the element seems to be converting whatever it's energy is into electricity when used as fuel?

I would just stick to the part with the current computations being done by electricity, instead of saying that the element has it's own way of transfering data wirelessly. There are more then enough ways to transmit data wirelessly already, like sure, the circuits in any kinds of tek would definitely be more advanced than anything from the current era, but i still don't see why it would be element based circuitry.

You're right except for the fact that most tek gear does not use electronics. Only the turrets and animals make use of traditional electronics, the door, jetpack, and rifle are all built without electronics, so then the duty to perform computations falls to the element.

I don't think it's something as simple as they didn't think about this stuff either, because the tek turret does use normal electronics.

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27 minutes ago, TinyHippo said:

You're right except for the fact that most tek gear does not use electronics. Only the turrets and animals make use of traditional electronics, the door, jetpack, and rifle are all built without electronics, so then the duty to perform computations falls to the element.

I don't think it's something as simple as they didn't think about this stuff either, because the tek turret does use normal electronics.

I would definitely say it's them not thinking about it in a lore way, the fact that the tek turret does need electronics is likely due to the fact that all turrets more or less cost the same types of materials, just compare the crafting cost of the auto turret, the heavy one and the tek turret. The tek turret of course needs element added to the usal stuff (Metal, Poly, CP and Electronics), but it's still mostly the same stuff. So more of a game design choice i would say

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