Exploiters, real money traders, and real life laws?

[nameless]

Exploiters, real money traders, and real life laws?

the whole official server is like a giant public golf field, with many people who paid for its membership. now someone decided that its a good idea to dig for earthworms in this golf field and that left everyone else with a field filled with more holes and less grass. reports are made to the manager of the field and reports are ignored........... i know that digging for earth worms isnt a crime, but can we call the police?

what  i know:
advertisements for RMT (real money trading) are all over both english and chinese- speaking online trading websites and in game chats
Exploiters, (specifically those that crash servers repetitively) still exists, even talking about how to use exploitations in game

 

what i am assuming:
majority of online players in official server do not know how to gather evidence and report RMT and exploits properly
enforcements are usually unable/ unwilling to act when reports are received

what i want to ask:
are RMT and exploiters breaking real life laws?
can RMT be considered as a crime since they are performing unregulated inter/ intranational trade without any form of quality controls or filing for any taxes? since they are selling in game items without permission from the creators, does it also count as a form of copyright infringement?
can exploiting by crashing the server be considered as a crime since they are attacking a public server not owned by them, causing data loses and sometimes server phycological traumas for people who lost characters when transfering? 

 

 

[AngryArkplayer]

About real money trading, it changes from were people are from. China doesnt regulate real money trade as much as occidental do. Then again ark doesnt seem to mind it if people use money to acquire item like in most game, altough they probably should regulate it. And even capitalise on it by regularising it with a platform were they could cash in a few bucks in the transactions to help them raise some much needed money to ensure the viability on the game.

 

Point is getting mad at people trying to earn money while they invest huge amount of time in a game thats basically a full time job, isnt gonna cut it. People who spent years reaching mutated stats on dinos, like any capitalist mind, hes gonna want his time worth for it, and i for one wont blame him/them for their effort being compensated. While yes wildcard own the game and everything related to it, they created a game that requires so much time thats a job. 

 

Now solution would be either they freaking nerf the amount of time it takes to raise all kind of babies to a certain degree where 14 days for a dino is clearly somebodies vacation if he has a job aside from ark. What will ensue is a drop of interest for RMT because people can just DIY their dinos much faster or the prices drops so peeps dont want to RMT anymore.

 

Or they go full lawsuit and prosecute all RMT right here and  there.They do decide what is okay or not under their ark license and RMT could be changed into the devil incarnate if they so choose. 

 

Now for exploit and all that laws on cybercrime aren't that clear on that but thats considered cheeting by Ark guidelines and if people collude they should all face the justice and wildcard do need to boost themselves To do it as they never seem to be able to stop them.

[deedoubleu]

@AngryArkplayer you make it sound as if RMT wasn't considered cheating or violation of Code of Conduct, while it clearly is:

> Real-Money Trading (RMT) - ARK items, creatures, or services must only be exchanged for other items, creatures, or services within the game. Trading for real-world currency (real money) is not an accepted form of trading.

 

Problem with RMT  is that it's nearly impossible to prove and you can only file a proper ticket if they blatantly advertised it in game's chat and you recorded a video.

Even then, best case scenario is WC banning one of those throw-away 3945683465836583 accounts. Minute after ban 3945683465836584 will continue advertising same stuff.

That was actually beneficial for WC since RMT folks had to buy new copy to carry on, but after game went free on EGS it is not the case anymore. Now banned players can buy new copy much cheaper and not a cent from it goes to WC. It would be just one of hundreds if not thousands of free accounts generated during giveaway.

So it would make sense to start banning by MAC-address, but I doubt WC will ever go for it.

EDIT: Now thinking about it, EG probably bought those copies to give away for free, though it doesn't change much since WC already got their profit and won't benefit from "free" copies being sold.

[crossmr]

3 hours ago, deedoubleu said:

@AngryArkplayer you make it sound as if RMT wasn't considered cheating or violation of Code of Conduct, while it clearly is:

> Real-Money Trading (RMT) - ARK items, creatures, or services must only be exchanged for other items, creatures, or services within the game. Trading for real-world currency (real money) is not an accepted form of trading.

 

Problem with RMT  is that it's nearly impossible to prove and you can only file a proper ticket if they blatantly advertised it in game's chat and you recorded a video.

Even then, best case scenario is WC banning one of those throw-away 3945683465836583 accounts. Minute after ban 3945683465836584 will continue advertising same stuff.

That was actually beneficial for WC since RMT folks had to buy new copy to carry on, but after game went free on EGS it is not the case anymore. Now banned players can buy new copy much cheaper and not a cent from it goes to WC. It would be just one of hundreds if not thousands of free accounts generated during giveaway.

So it would make sense to start banning by MAC-address, but I doubt WC will ever go for it.

EDIT: Now thinking about it, EG probably bought those copies to give away for free, though it doesn't change much since WC already got their profit and won't benefit from "free" copies being sold.

And even if you do that, they still won't do anything. A year ago when I was playing, this troll came onto the server we were playing on, brought on a desert titan to troll and wipe the server. He admitted in chat that he paid for it. Screenshotted it, sent it in, they did nothing. He was back a week or two later, doing it again, again admitting that he paid for the titan. They still wouldn't do anything.

 

[BertNoobians]

5 hours ago, AngryArkplayer said:

Now solution would be either they freaking nerf the amount of time it takes to raise all kind of babies to a certain degree where 14 days for a dino is clearly somebodies vacation if he has a job aside from ark. What will ensue is a drop of interest for RMT because people can just DIY their dinos much faster or the prices drops so peeps dont want to RMT anymore.

not only dinos are sold, also nice pvp bases in caves go for 2500 euro and accounts to inside a tribe i have seen go for 250 to 2000 euro

[reddotjellytot]

1 hour ago, BertNoobians said:

not only dinos are sold, also nice pvp bases in caves go for 2500 euro and accounts to inside a tribe i have seen go for 250 to 2000 euro

Selling of accounts I'm not sure WC could do much about enforcement on that issue because the accounts dont actually belong to WC.  Im not sure on the terms of steam account selling or if it's even allowed.  Both issues need to be enforced upon, RMT is a plague to the community and needs to be stamped out.

[deedoubleu]

1 hour ago, reddotjellytot said:

Selling of accounts I'm not sure WC could do much about enforcement on that issue because the accounts dont actually belong to WC.  Im not sure on the terms of steam account selling or if it's even allowed.  Both issues need to be enforced upon, RMT is a plague to the community and needs to be stamped out.

It's not WC responsibility and not illegal law-wise, but against Steam user agreement.

Quote

Your Account, including any information pertaining to it (e.g.: contact information, billing information, Account history and Subscriptions, etc.), is strictly personal. You may therefore not sell or charge others for the right to use your Account, or otherwise transfer your Account, nor may you sell, charge others for the right to use, or transfer any Subscriptions other than if and as expressly permitted by this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use) or as otherwise specifically permitted by Valve.

 

[Darkholis]

3 hours ago, crossmr said:

And even if you do that, they still won't do anything. A year ago when I was playing, this troll came onto the server we were playing on, brought on a desert titan to troll and wipe the server. He admitted in chat that he paid for it. Screenshotted it, sent it in, they did nothing. He was back a week or two later, doing it again, again admitting that he paid for the titan. They still wouldn't do anything.

People can say whatever they want in chat. As a WC customer support employee told me years ago, words does not make it a fact.

[deedoubleu]

2 minutes ago, Darkholis said:

People can say whatever they want in chat. As a WC customer support employee told me years ago, words does not make it a fact.

But...  that's just idiotic.

So RMT is a no-no, but there is absolutely no way anyone will ever be punished for it. So don't do it, because it's bad eventhough you can 100% get away with it.

 

I understand why screens and logs from other websites, chats, IMs can't be used as a proof, but in-game chat too? Guess only way to get banned for RMT is if you burst into WC office shove one of them aside from their PCs and buy/sell something in ark for real money in front of them. Bonus points for maintaining eye-contact the whole time.

[invincibleqc]

47 minutes ago, deedoubleu said:

But...  that's just idiotic.

So RMT is a no-no, but there is absolutely no way anyone will ever be punished for it. So don't do it, because it's bad eventhough you can 100% get away with it.

If you suspect someone is conducting RMT on the official network then just report it with all your evidences and it will be investigated. They have a lot more data to work with now than they used to. Hell, they can probably tell precisely the frequency at which your character is farting. So yeah, just report it and be on your way. If they can't take action solely based on the provided evidences, at least those individuals will be on their radar.

[GrumpyBear]

If WC was smart, they'd come up w/ an in game system to trade that lets people trade real money, they get their cut of it, everyone wins.

[nameless]

5 hours ago, Darkholis said:

People can say whatever they want in chat. As a WC customer support employee told me years ago, words does not make it a fact.

Indeed, i dont know how they are processing it, but what i know is:

i have the player's steam ID, in game video of how they sent RMT request and also a link to external trading website

i made the report and the report simply vanished into the void, that player kept logging on the day after, and the day after that day, and so on

[crossmr]

7 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

If you suspect someone is conducting RMT on the official network then just report it with all your evidences and it will be investigated. They have a lot more data to work with now than they used to. Hell, they can probably tell precisely the frequency at which your character is farting. So yeah, just report it and be on your way. If they can't take action solely based on the provided evidences, at least those individuals will be on their radar.

The guy literally wrote in chat "I paid $85 to have someone else get this titan for me so I could bring it here" and nothing. I've got bug reports from a year ago that they haven't read or addressed in the system. i have 0 faith in WC's support or customer service.

 

[nameless]

and i remembered someone typed in chat like "i set an automatic message alarm so that i got messaged if the server population goes beyond 10, then i can use my program to ddos the server"

[Demerus]

$85 for a pixel monster that will be deleted in less than 24 hours.

Money well spent I guess.

[Chewytowel]

Yeah the problem of RMT seems to be pretty rampant.  But frankly playing the game and getting better at it will save you a lot of $$$.  Hell there are also plenty of legit traders out there willing to trade with in game items.  But not sure at all what legal consequences there could be as I'm not a lawyer or aware of laws that may apply.  I would think selling someone else's property to make money in a way they do not condone is theft.

[reddotjellytot]

Its crazy how many people actually do RMT, its so easy these days to grind mats/crafted items and even dust for trade purposes. It makes no sense why people would pay for in game items with real money.  

The only thing I can assume that these people paying money have no idea how to farm effectively to go with the in game currency, even a solo player can grind mats in less than a day in order to get up to speed with the latest dinos.

Every trader I have dealt with so far are legit people, there are many discord channels with trusted traders and those selling for real money are banned instantly from every channel and its communicated across other discord servers to warn them as well.

The problem is getting solid proof to the WC enforcement team, they will not go by evidence provided from a discord channel as proof, it all has to be in game rock solid evidence.

[Usuallyafk]

Almost all dino lines/structures from "established tribes" on small tribes official pvp are bought. So many sites, discords & fb pages sell them. They sell so much that you would be amazed by how cheap it is now. I imagine it's the same on the big tribe official pvp servers, but those are a whole another level of bad & most people left those long ago. Negligence from WC kills this game.

[LE4SoDeadly]

Your all tripping I can link you to multiple groups with tens of thousands of dollars worth of trade happening weekly with 5-10k ppl in on Xbox smalls every ab has a tribe selling boss runs for 25 a seat there’s only 8 and....wild card know....hell wild card pRobs the ones doing it 

[LE4SoDeadly]

Nvm

[TheDonn]

22 hours ago, Demerus said:

$85 for a pixel monster that will be deleted in less than 24 hours.

Money well spent I guess.

Honestly this is the thing I can't understand.  Seems to me that a likely course of events is:

You spend real-life money for a PvP base replete with max armor saddles/chompasaurii/turrets/ammo

Things are delivered to whatever server and the seller logs your account number or IP for monitoring

You leave server thinking you are sly or clever

You set up elsewhere and have a pretty nice base fairly out of the way

The seller uses one of several data-parsing sites to find what server you went to

You log in the next day totally wiped

The cryo'd dinos are pulled from the wreckage of your stupid base and resold to someone else.

I dunno.  With some of the things ARK players are known to do, it doesn't seem too far-fetched that this would happen.  There is no honor in PvP, even the salesmen have no honor because they do not have to.  This is a game where people DDOS servers and players, dox each other, follow people across the official network, and worse.

[Demerus]

14 hours ago, TheDonn said:

Honestly this is the thing I can't understand.  Seems to me that a likely course of events is:

You spend real-life money for a PvP base replete with max armor saddles/chompasaurii/turrets/ammo

Things are delivered to whatever server and the seller logs your account number or IP for monitoring

You leave server thinking you are sly or clever

You set up elsewhere and have a pretty nice base fairly out of the way

The seller uses one of several data-parsing sites to find what server you went to

You log in the next day totally wiped

The cryo'd dinos are pulled from the wreckage of your stupid base and resold to someone else.

I dunno.  With some of the things ARK players are known to do, it doesn't seem too far-fetched that this would happen.  There is no honor in PvP, even the salesmen have no honor because they do not have to.  This is a game where people DDOS servers and players, dox each other, follow people across the official network, and worse.

There is a paid subscription bot/app that compiles info and tracks your every move as a player, server info, play time. etc. I hear it is even better than a paid battlemetrics account

so yes, your idea is actually pretty clever from a profit/pvp point of view. I'm sure there are people who do something similar.

Its actually pretty scary what some PVP players are capable of and the lengths they are willing to go.

Let's not forget about covid. Lots of people are out of work and need to make extra cash somehow.

[LE4SoDeadly]

It happens but not as much as you think. There a lot of drugy kids who do it to scam for money to. But the big traders who are established they have ddoss on speed dial they will never be raised not ever they clear thousands a week ark to theM is a job and you don’t carry out your job by robbing your customers 

[LE4SoDeadly]

Just now, LE4SoDeadly said:

It happens but not as much as you think. There a lot of drugy kids who do it to scam for money to. But the big traders who are established they have ddoss on speed dial they will never be raised not ever they clear thousands a week ark to theM is a job and you don’t carry out your job by robbing your customers 

 

[nameless]

15 hours ago, Demerus said:

so yes, your idea is actually pretty clever from a profit/pvp point of view. I'm sure there are people who do something similar.

Its actually pretty scary what some PVP players are capable of and the lengths they are willing to go.

 

awwww....... i miss the time when you meet a player in server, you actually knew that player came to play the game.........