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Small Tribes Offical PvP is officaly ruined

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Small Tribes Offical PvP is officaly ruined

22,000 health, 11,000 stamina, 1,300 melee damage, 80-90% damage reduction from most sources.

What I just read to you are current mana stats on Small Tribes for Windows 10 and Xbox. These are what I get my manas too, although I've experimented and gotten some manas to ONE THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED 1,600 melee, without max leveling them.

I also dont put a single point into health. Not a single. point. And they still have 22k hp, just as much, if not more health than most wyverns. Not only that, WC also decided to give the fastest and most mobile creature in the game a 124 armor saddle that gives them a 80% damage reduction as well!

And with that juicy 11k stamina, the so called pathetic "balancing" that is implemented regarding their stamina usage is irrelevant, as you basically wont run out of stamina. And when you do, somehow, you can hop off your mana at any hp % and gain the full 11,000 stamina back in under 4 seconds. Amazing.

It is literally neraly impossible to use any. ANY other creature in the game that is a "main battle tame" Griffins, bloodstalkers, 90% of flyers, Tropegnathus, Ferox, Rock Drake. All useless because they are frozen for SO LONG. ELEVEN SECONDS OF BEING FROZEN. And because of the LITERAL ONE THOUSAND PLUS MELEE, it is so punishing. You are usually dead no matter what. Even if manas couldnt freeze targets (how it should be) they would still deal insane damage.

Wyverns are on the verge of unusable. Even if you pump literally nothing but health into a fire wyvern, you are dead in about 10, maybe less, seconds of freezing. While manas can tank 20+ bites from a giga with 1.2k melee, 10+ hits from the ice titan, and around 50 fire breaths from a Fire Wyvern. Amazing, What amazing balancing.

 

I love this game so much, I love PvP so much, early game and late game. But please Wildcard, I want to use anything. Anything else but manas. I love using Wyverns, and when manas only had around 400, 500 MAYBE 600 melee you actually could use them somewhat to fight. But now... It's nearly impossible.

Manas are really the only creature that need stat caps, at something like 10k health, and 600 melee, with stamina not really needing a cap.

Griffins are unusable trash. Because they are frozen for 11 stupid, INFURIATING SECONDS, and MANAS CAN DEAL AROUND ****35,000**** DAMAGE TO A UNSADDLED CREATURE IN THAT TIME, you are dead PEROID when you are froze. Manas were not designed or balanced to have 1,300 melee.

The same goes for most creatures. Bloodstalkers and Feroxes are frozen for about the same amount of time, and are usually either dead, or so low after they unfreeze that you can snipe it 2-3 times and it dies. 

The only reason Wyverns are somewhat usuable is because they are froze for about 2.5 seconds. But they still take FIVE TO SIX THOUSAND F$&#ING DAMAGE IN THAT TIME. 

This is ridicolous and the best part is that it is only going to get worse. Can't WAIT for 2,000 melee manas in a few months. Oh, and by the way, Gigas on PC one shot enrage each other! Good job Wildcard.

Oh, and by the way, no, dinos do not cap at level 450. WC devs don't play their own game and don't realize you can just breed with low level creatures to drop your level by 140, meaing you can get thousands and thousands of more melee : )

Manas desperately need a fix. Cap their stats, 500 or 600 melee, make it so they cant freeze flyers and for the LOVE OF GOD GIVE WYVERNS SADDLES. In a world of 1.3k melee gigas, titans, and manas, WYVERNS NEED SADDLES.

 

Please Wildcard. You work so hard to creature new creatures and put them into the game, but they are all useless and overshadowed by this one mistake you refuse to fix. PvP is so exhausting because it is just the same thing day in... day out... Please

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Well being honest, if someone puts months of their life into raising a perfect line of virtual creatures, I think they deserve to be king and shouldn't have to fear some Bob with a 30 min tame bird.

But when it comes to the mana, it's been said probably more times than there are bugs in this game, but it's a badly designed creature.

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Posted (edited)

does it matter with what you get killed?

i mean if it is not an op mana its an op giga, if no giga its a rex or smth else...

 

but i get you, when i started extinction, when it came out, i tamed a mana i saw how op this thing is and did just quit playing extinction right away, i was kinda pissed, now ofc i play on extinction again but i got only 1 mana, for the veins and drops.

 

the dash nerf was just stupid imo

better would have been a

 

stats nerf like griffin

and no breeding

 

but changing now is kinda bad you know...

 

the mana for pvp it is hell, for pve its a great creature...

 

maybe a pvp only nerf could fix this long existing issue of the mana, it is just op, does not matter what you do...

 

the pvp in ark tho, is very unbalanced in general, and cause of the fact that there are no wipes or seasons the gameplay will be unbalanced everytime and always, esp. for beginners.

and, there will be always a pvp meta, speaking of does it matter if its a mana or a giga?...

;)

Edited by PhotekPlays

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Except no, people usually don't put months of work into it. Most people don't last that long. I'd say about 75% of all manas in current tribes originated from people buying them with real money.

 

And Griffins and Wyverns are meant to be end game tames, and are difficult, much more difficult to get compared to manas.

Also, back then, if you put "months of work" into tames and had good, high level, mutuated creatures, even if you TAMED the same thing you could still actually fight if you had high SKILL level. Manas vs anything else make skill irrelevant. Unless you are going against someone who is literally mentally incapacitated for whatever reason, you are a literal God at the game, and have the best stats of whatever creature you are using; the fight will never be about skill.

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11 hours ago, Frost027 said:

Small Tribes Offical PvP is officaly ruined

22,000 health, 11,000 stamina, 1,300 melee damage, 80-90% damage reduction from most sources.

What I just read to you are current mana stats on Small Tribes for Windows 10 and Xbox. These are what I get my manas too, although I've experimented and gotten some manas to ONE THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED 1,600 melee, without max leveling them.

I also dont put a single point into health. Not a single. point. And they still have 22k hp, just as much, if not more health than most wyverns. Not only that, WC also decided to give the fastest and most mobile creature in the game a 124 armor saddle that gives them a 80% damage reduction as well!

And with that juicy 11k stamina, the so called pathetic "balancing" that is implemented regarding their stamina usage is irrelevant, as you basically wont run out of stamina. And when you do, somehow, you can hop off your mana at any hp % and gain the full 11,000 stamina back in under 4 seconds. Amazing.

It is literally neraly impossible to use any. ANY other creature in the game that is a "main battle tame" Griffins, bloodstalkers, 90% of flyers, Tropegnathus, Ferox, Rock Drake. All useless because they are frozen for SO LONG. ELEVEN SECONDS OF BEING FROZEN. And because of the LITERAL ONE THOUSAND PLUS MELEE, it is so punishing. You are usually dead no matter what. Even if manas couldnt freeze targets (how it should be) they would still deal insane damage.

Wyverns are on the verge of unusable. Even if you pump literally nothing but health into a fire wyvern, you are dead in about 10, maybe less, seconds of freezing. While manas can tank 20+ bites from a giga with 1.2k melee, 10+ hits from the ice titan, and around 50 fire breaths from a Fire Wyvern. Amazing, What amazing balancing.

 

I love this game so much, I love PvP so much, early game and late game. But please Wildcard, I want to use anything. Anything else but manas. I love using Wyverns, and when manas only had around 400, 500 MAYBE 600 melee you actually could use them somewhat to fight. But now... It's nearly impossible.

Manas are really the only creature that need stat caps, at something like 10k health, and 600 melee, with stamina not really needing a cap.

Griffins are unusable trash. Because they are frozen for 11 stupid, INFURIATING SECONDS, and MANAS CAN DEAL AROUND ****35,000**** DAMAGE TO A UNSADDLED CREATURE IN THAT TIME, you are dead PEROID when you are froze. Manas were not designed or balanced to have 1,300 melee.

The same goes for most creatures. Bloodstalkers and Feroxes are frozen for about the same amount of time, and are usually either dead, or so low after they unfreeze that you can snipe it 2-3 times and it dies. 

The only reason Wyverns are somewhat usuable is because they are froze for about 2.5 seconds. But they still take FIVE TO SIX THOUSAND F$&#ING DAMAGE IN THAT TIME. 

This is ridicolous and the best part is that it is only going to get worse. Can't WAIT for 2,000 melee manas in a few months. Oh, and by the way, Gigas on PC one shot enrage each other! Good job Wildcard.

Oh, and by the way, no, dinos do not cap at level 450. WC devs don't play their own game and don't realize you can just breed with low level creatures to drop your level by 140, meaing you can get thousands and thousands of more melee : )

Manas desperately need a fix. Cap their stats, 500 or 600 melee, make it so they cant freeze flyers and for the LOVE OF GOD GIVE WYVERNS SADDLES. In a world of 1.3k melee gigas, titans, and manas, WYVERNS NEED SADDLES.

 

Please Wildcard. You work so hard to creature new creatures and put them into the game, but they are all useless and overshadowed by this one mistake you refuse to fix. PvP is so exhausting because it is just the same thing day in... day out... Please

Actually yes.. dinos DO cap at 450. Breeding them to lower stats isnt negating this.. just prolonging 

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On 7/9/2020 at 6:43 AM, Frost027 said:

Small Tribes Offical PvP is officaly ruined

22,000 health, 11,000 stamina, 1,300 melee damage, 80-90% damage reduction from most sources.

What I just read to you are current mana stats on Small Tribes for Windows 10 and Xbox. These are what I get my manas too, although I've experimented and gotten some manas to ONE THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED 1,600 melee, without max leveling them.

I also dont put a single point into health. Not a single. point. And they still have 22k hp, just as much, if not more health than most wyverns. Not only that, WC also decided to give the fastest and most mobile creature in the game a 124 armor saddle that gives them a 80% damage reduction as well!

And with that juicy 11k stamina, the so called pathetic "balancing" that is implemented regarding their stamina usage is irrelevant, as you basically wont run out of stamina. And when you do, somehow, you can hop off your mana at any hp % and gain the full 11,000 stamina back in under 4 seconds. Amazing.

It is literally neraly impossible to use any. ANY other creature in the game that is a "main battle tame" Griffins, bloodstalkers, 90% of flyers, Tropegnathus, Ferox, Rock Drake. All useless because they are frozen for SO LONG. ELEVEN SECONDS OF BEING FROZEN. And because of the LITERAL ONE THOUSAND PLUS MELEE, it is so punishing. You are usually dead no matter what. Even if manas couldnt freeze targets (how it should be) they would still deal insane damage.

Wyverns are on the verge of unusable. Even if you pump literally nothing but health into a fire wyvern, you are dead in about 10, maybe less, seconds of freezing. While manas can tank 20+ bites from a giga with 1.2k melee, 10+ hits from the ice titan, and around 50 fire breaths from a Fire Wyvern. Amazing, What amazing balancing.

 

I love this game so much, I love PvP so much, early game and late game. But please Wildcard, I want to use anything. Anything else but manas. I love using Wyverns, and when manas only had around 400, 500 MAYBE 600 melee you actually could use them somewhat to fight. But now... It's nearly impossible.

Manas are really the only creature that need stat caps, at something like 10k health, and 600 melee, with stamina not really needing a cap.

Griffins are unusable trash. Because they are frozen for 11 stupid, INFURIATING SECONDS, and MANAS CAN DEAL AROUND ****35,000**** DAMAGE TO A UNSADDLED CREATURE IN THAT TIME, you are dead PEROID when you are froze. Manas were not designed or balanced to have 1,300 melee.

The same goes for most creatures. Bloodstalkers and Feroxes are frozen for about the same amount of time, and are usually either dead, or so low after they unfreeze that you can snipe it 2-3 times and it dies. 

The only reason Wyverns are somewhat usuable is because they are froze for about 2.5 seconds. But they still take FIVE TO SIX THOUSAND F$&#ING DAMAGE IN THAT TIME. 

This is ridicolous and the best part is that it is only going to get worse. Can't WAIT for 2,000 melee manas in a few months. Oh, and by the way, Gigas on PC one shot enrage each other! Good job Wildcard.

Oh, and by the way, no, dinos do not cap at level 450. WC devs don't play their own game and don't realize you can just breed with low level creatures to drop your level by 140, meaing you can get thousands and thousands of more melee : )

Manas desperately need a fix. Cap their stats, 500 or 600 melee, make it so they cant freeze flyers and for the LOVE OF GOD GIVE WYVERNS SADDLES. In a world of 1.3k melee gigas, titans, and manas, WYVERNS NEED SADDLES.

 

Please Wildcard. You work so hard to creature new creatures and put them into the game, but they are all useless and overshadowed by this one mistake you refuse to fix. PvP is so exhausting because it is just the same thing day in... day out... Please

With the wyvern saddle, I wanted that already!

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1 hour ago, Dylanmckennedy12071941 said:

Griffins are unusable trash. Because they are frozen for 11 stupid, INFURIATING SECONDS, and MANAS CAN DEAL AROUND ****35,000**** DAMAGE TO A UNSADDLED CREATURE IN THAT TIME, you are dead PEROID when you are froze. Manas were not designed or balanced to have 1,300 melee.

The same goes for most creatures. Bloodstalkers and Feroxes are frozen for about the same amount of time, and are usually either dead, or so low after they unfreeze that you can snipe it 2-3 times and it dies. 

The only reason Wyverns are somewhat usuable is because they are froze for about 2.5 seconds. But they still take FIVE TO SIX THOUSAND F$&#ING DAMAGE IN THAT TIME. 

Reaper's base health is more than that: a tamed reaper's base health is 45,000 and they have a heavy damage reduction if not affected by charge light.

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Manas are a damn nuisance. I mean they are sexy sure but theres no real counter to them. Most really strong tames have a lot more restrictions or are a lot harder to get. The difference between bred gigas and bred manas is you can change how you fight the giga to still have a shot but manas will always be faster than you, can pseudo "fly" and have a ranged attack that freezes AND vaporizes you in seconds. Theres no room for counterplay. 

 

Im not sure i agree with stat caps but introducing a counter mechanic would be lovely. Like make them take hugely multiplied damage from fire. So fire wyverns can directly counter them and expand the fire related items. Give us incendiary grenades and rockets, molotovs and maybe even incendiary rocket launcher turrets or tek lasers that deal fire damage or something. 

 

Or even make it so when manas use X amount of stamina they have to hibernate for a certain amount of time and wont respond to commands and cant be podded or uploaded.

 

Im just throwing ideas out there but theres things you can do that would still let ppl breed them but open up some counter play. As it is my playstyle is basically to never engage a mana which def isnt as fun for me since most ppl use them.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

They have a base health of 45k, and receive an additive bonus of -38.5k meaning 45k + -38.5 = 6.5k base health for a tamed reaper king.

Tamed reaper king base stats:

Attribute Base Value Level Increase Taming Bonus
Wild Tamed Additive Multiplicative
30px-Health.png?version=c7e415cab4e7be90 Health 45000 +234 +2.7% -38500  
30px-Stamina.png?version=ea2c550bbe7e99d Stamina 480 +48 +10%    
30px-Oxygen.png?version=1a84ba13ea8d5cbd Oxygen 150 +15 +10%    
30px-Food.png?version=d56d69ef339419064f Food 3000 +300 +10%    
30px-Weight.png?version=bc6a30cbb2d4cc6a Weight 415 +8.3 +4%    
30px-Melee_Damage.png?version=109e397c94 Melee Damage 75 +3.75 +1.7% 7% 17.6%
30px-Movement_Speed.png?version=1902d658 Movement Speed 100% N/A +1%    
30px-Torpidity.png?version=22fb08d94288b Torpidity 925 +55.5 N/A 0.5
Edited by Dylanmckennedy12071941

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42 minutes ago, Dylanmckennedy12071941 said:

Tamed reaper king base stats:

Attribute Base Value Level Increase Taming Bonus
Wild Tamed Additive Multiplicative
30px-Health.png?version=c7e415cab4e7be90 Health 45000 +234 +2.7% -38500  
30px-Stamina.png?version=ea2c550bbe7e99d Stamina 480 +48 +10%    
30px-Oxygen.png?version=1a84ba13ea8d5cbd Oxygen 150 +15 +10%    
30px-Food.png?version=d56d69ef339419064f Food 3000 +300 +10%    
30px-Weight.png?version=bc6a30cbb2d4cc6a Weight 415 +8.3 +4%    
30px-Melee_Damage.png?version=109e397c94 Melee Damage 75 +3.75 +1.7% 7% 17.6%
30px-Movement_Speed.png?version=1902d658 Movement Speed 100% N/A +1%    
30px-Torpidity.png?version=22fb08d94288b Torpidity 925 +55.5 N/A 0.5

No reaper king comes out w/ 45k hp from your belly, 15k might be the top u see, after imprint up to around 25k.  You have to spend lots of points to get back up to 45k hp.  Says it right on your chart, additive " -38500"

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4 hours ago, Dylanmckennedy12071941 said:

Tamed reaper king base stats:

Attribute Base Value Level Increase Taming Bonus
Wild Tamed Additive Multiplicative
30px-Health.png?version=c7e415cab4e7be90 Health 45000 +234 +2.7% -38500  
30px-Stamina.png?version=ea2c550bbe7e99d Stamina 480 +48 +10%    
30px-Oxygen.png?version=1a84ba13ea8d5cbd Oxygen 150 +15 +10%    
30px-Food.png?version=d56d69ef339419064f Food 3000 +300 +10%    
30px-Weight.png?version=bc6a30cbb2d4cc6a Weight 415 +8.3 +4%    
30px-Melee_Damage.png?version=109e397c94 Melee Damage 75 +3.75 +1.7% 7% 17.6%
30px-Movement_Speed.png?version=1902d658 Movement Speed 100% N/A +1%    
30px-Torpidity.png?version=22fb08d94288b Torpidity 925 +55.5 N/A 0.5

It is not a tamed Reaper King. It is a wild level 1 Queen. 

A wild level 1 Reaper Queen has a base health of 45k hp. Queen =/= King. 

 

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Posted (edited)

If the reapers slow grounded the mana it would have made an interesting tactical counter.

Unfortunaty the devs love the mana and have decided it should not have to follow same game rules as other creatures and is completely immune to all forms of CC.

Snow owl slow does not affect manas

Reaper slow does not affect manas

Lymantria slow does not affect manas.

Mesopethicus slow does not affect manas

Enforcer stun does not affect manas

Plant x slow does not affect manas, they can just dash and fly away after landing in middle of a field of plant x

Tusos can not grab manas

Deinos can not pounce manas

The ice beam directly deals damage to rider of a dino unlike most ranged dino attacks in game

Manas can regen stamina underwater.

Manas can regen full stam in 3 seconds no matter how much stam they have, 0 to 12K stam in 3 seconds, its hard coded. Game rules are for lesser dinos. manas were originally conceived as a cheat dino and even after nerfs remain that way.

The nerfs have made the mana annoying to use but have not really actually balanced it. PVE players rightfully criticize the nerfs because the mana is just annoying to use. But it remains broken, and on pvp there is still nothing that can counter a mana in 1v1.

Edited by covenantgrunt

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13 hours ago, covenantgrunt said:

If the reapers slow grounded the mana it would have made an interesting tactical counter.

Unfortunaty the devs love the mana and have decided it should not have to follow same game rules as other creatures and is completely immune to all forms of CC.

Snow owl slow does not affect manas

Reaper slow does not affect manas

Lymantria slow does not affect manas.

Mesopethicus slow does not affect manas

Enforcer stun does not affect manas

Plant x slow does not affect manas, they can just dash and fly away after landing in middle of a field of plant x

Tusos can not grab manas

Deinos can not pounce manas

The ice beam directly deals damage to rider of a dino unlike most ranged dino attacks in game

Manas can regen stamina underwater.

Manas can regen full stam in 3 seconds no matter how much stam they have, 0 to 12K stam in 3 seconds, its hard coded. Game rules are for lesser dinos. manas were originally conceived as a cheat dino and even after nerfs remain that way.

The nerfs have made the mana annoying to use but have not really actually balanced it. PVE players rightfully criticize the nerfs because the mana is just annoying to use. But it remains broken, and on pvp there is still nothing that can counter a mana in 1v1.

But does it ignore armor?

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13 hours ago, covenantgrunt said:

If the reapers slow grounded the mana it would have made an interesting tactical counter.

Unfortunaty the devs love the mana and have decided it should not have to follow same game rules as other creatures and is completely immune to all forms of CC.

Snow owl slow does not affect manas

Reaper slow does not affect manas

Lymantria slow does not affect manas.

Mesopethicus slow does not affect manas

Enforcer stun does not affect manas

Plant x slow does not affect manas, they can just dash and fly away after landing in middle of a field of plant x

Tusos can not grab manas

Deinos can not pounce manas

The ice beam directly deals damage to rider of a dino unlike most ranged dino attacks in game

Manas can regen stamina underwater.

Manas can regen full stam in 3 seconds no matter how much stam they have, 0 to 12K stam in 3 seconds, its hard coded. Game rules are for lesser dinos. manas were originally conceived as a cheat dino and even after nerfs remain that way.

The nerfs have made the mana annoying to use but have not really actually balanced it. PVE players rightfully criticize the nerfs because the mana is just annoying to use. But it remains broken, and on pvp there is still nothing that can counter a mana in 1v1.

WeaknessEdit

The Managarmr has a hard time hitting you on the side due to is high speed and movement. Turn in a circle with it to avoid its land attacks.

Because Managarmr takes in damage similar to a flyer, it is suspectible to projectile hits from both 20px-Reaper.png?version=25a3c4138c1a474e Reaper and 20px-Velonasaur.png?version=3ba0e70512c0 Velonasaur.

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WeaknessEdit

The Managarmr has a hard time hitting you on the side due to is high speed and movement. Turn in a circle with it to avoid its land attacks.

Because Managarmr takes in damage similar to a flyer, it is suspectible to projectile hits from both 20px-Reaper.png?version=25a3c4138c1a474e7c83b9b41016b361 Reaper and 20px-Velonasaur.png?version=3ba0e70512c0a055f7e8462907d5951f Velonasaur.

Seeing as how u copied and pasted that from the combat section for managarmr on ark wiki, u should know that it is generally for against wild creatures. Against player-ridden ones it wont work.
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Posted (edited)

So many people have explained articulately why the design of manas are so bad for the game & offered amazing insight into what could be changed & balanced. Of course it fell on deaf ears & 99% of players on any official pvp server are always on a mana. They make so many other dinos obsolete, everything in genesis, even the new dino. Negligence is Wildcards biggest issue. The biggest unnoficial pvp servers usually have them disabled. They truly destroyed this game.

Edited by Usuallyafk
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