Jump to content

[v310.80] Ovis/Sheep Changes Discussion


Recommended Posts

On 6/5/2020 at 5:18 PM, RedXIII said:

Yeah think I will pass on regular meat taming anything for kibble. With the amount you need. It was either a mistake or another push to get people to move to private servers. But itll just make more people quit. Lose more and more players all the time and people still try to defend every mistake. *looks up*......

Now the new flyer will come out and will only be able to tame by mutton....(speculation of course)

Dododex: 150 =400 raw mutton

Me: go kills sheep, harvest with chainsaw...gets 2 mutton....

WC: laughs uncontrollably 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 122
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Half these pansies don’t know about 24 hour theri tames  or sitting in your quetz trap floating in the air for four hours . Had it easy I say ?

You could always do the intended kibble progression. Which is easy now, compared to the classic kibble progression.

What did they do to Ovis this patch??? So in the most recent patch of the game it states "Reduced scaling factor of sheep harvesting health to reduce stalls"  Now today I got wiped all my cryos gon

Posted Images

@d1nk and @TheDonn, you are both very correct. I honestly have ovis, am later in game, and don't think relying off of rare wild ones for mutton is a good idea in general. Taming a therizino isn't too hard with berries if you're patient, I just kind of assumed most early players would have the knockout tools/narcotic, so sorry for replying on impulse without thinking about it thoroughly. My basic stance: "they didn't need the nerf" remains the same, however. Mass breeding them is a pain to do, unless you play with ridiculous rates. On official the babies easily starve overnight if you aren't careful, and even on singleplayer/unofficial, even with single player settings, the cooldown is substantial enough to make breeding very slow. Sure if it's singleplayer/unofficial you can just completely change the breeding rates, but that takes away some challenge and makes it a bit less fun. Anyway final stance: Therizinos aren't too hard to tame, ovis should drop more mutton, and relying on mass breeding can be tedious.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@parazightsince you play alone you take out the issues PVP players have. You don't have time to set up a nice little spot with a nice little garden and cook some tasty veggie cake to tame some sheeps which you would have to lvl/breed to get some good amounts of mutton. 

You are in the constant fear of someone discovering you and wiping you again after you just starting freshly after a wipe.

Someone even provided a picture of him talking directly to Wildcard and them stating that this was a mistake on their side while trying to fix an exploit. This heavy nerf was never intended it seems like.

 

Also saying mutton is/was OP while playing PVE or PVE unofficial would really interest me on the reasoning. If the game is too easy for you, why not increase the difficulty on unofficial or singleplayer and reduce the gathering rates heavily? Why drag everyone else into this mess? :D 

Are this the same people that think PVE is competitive? Do you want your effort put into the game to not be diminished by others having access to easier methods? 

Does taming with mutton destroy the balance of the game on PVE where the few pro-nerf people come from? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fukushu said:

@parazightsince you play alone you take out the issues PVP players have. You don't have time to set up a nice little spot with a nice little garden and cook some tasty veggie cake to tame some sheeps which you would have to lvl/breed to get some good amounts of mutton. 

You are in the constant fear of someone discovering you and wiping you again after you just starting freshly after a wipe.

Someone even provided a picture of him talking directly to Wildcard and them stating that this was a mistake on their side while trying to fix an exploit. This heavy nerf was never intended it seems like.

 

Also saying mutton is/was OP while playing PVE or PVE unofficial would really interest me on the reasoning. If the game is too easy for you, why not increase the difficulty on unofficial or singleplayer and reduce the gathering rates heavily? Why drag everyone else into this mess? :D 

Are this the same people that think PVE is competitive? Do you want your effort put into the game to not be diminished by others having access to easier methods? 

Does taming with mutton destroy the balance of the game on PVE where the few pro-nerf people come from? 

Okay, you make some points.  The only legitimate response I can come up with is why are you PVPing on ARK?  As someone who has been pvping in MMOs for decades, I can see how it would be annoying to fend off griefers and the nature of a pvp server.  This is one of the first MMOs where I've gone the singleplayer route.  If I want pvp, I'll play Wow arenas, dayz, or cs.  I admire the open world setting in ark, it incorporates the community directly.   And directly with PVE progression.  There's something unique about ARK, so I spent a bunch of time playing it.  

Re: mutton.  I don't believe mutton is OP.  Kibble does it better and is not at all the hardest part of this game.  I play the game by only changing the difficulty to maximum.  Haven't touched the other sliders.  No cheats.  It's really not that hard, honestly.  You just have to learn the caves and the boss fights.  And the content of ARK is super primitive.  I've raided in some real MMOs, and these bosses are super primitive.  The bottleneck is crafting supplies (dinos + supplies).   Sweet Veggie Cake is OP.  Mutton is not OP.  Kibble is baseline and still better than mutton.  Kibble and Cake are made from the same cooking device.  I've yet to tame an Ovis.  But let me tell you how I tamed a flock Troodons the hard way.

In the end, I don't care if others have easier methods.   I was just baffled as to why people were thinking this was a nerf to ovis (concludes said people believe it is OP) when actually, it was done so people couldn't hang servers.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

The nerf was too heavy handed and a very unwelcome low priority change compared to other things that need addressing. The lag issue they speak of really isn't as bad as they are making it seem in comparison to Dino's like Brontosaurus. If it was that bad it is as easy as throttling the gather cap to reduce the lag. I breed sheep with 140 points in HP and the server I played on was unaffected, and that was a server with some pretty heavy mods and 15x gather and using a 600% chainsaw. They should not have done a straight up 99% nerf but instead done a 15% nerf first and adjusted accordingly. Or, better yet. Add an ini option!? Why do unofficial servers have to suffer this NERF as well?

The argument about it lagging a server is questionable, if that was the case, why wasn't the bronto nerfed too? Since one bronto on max melee can cause an entire server to kick people by spamming the tail swipe?

I would like to point out that now the dossier does not reflect the sheep in its current state, the harvesting meat image in the dossier should be one tick instead of four to reflect this painful nerf. Preferably, please revert or adjust this nerf as in it's current state is is just ruining another aspect of the game people actually enjoyed and appreciated as part of the game. Doing these kinds of nerfs feels like a direct attack at a players ability to enjoy a little relief from the grind.

Edited by khaidu
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Volunteer Moderator
10 minutes ago, IanHighlander said:

They've already said (Dollie posted on Twitter and it's been posted in this thread) that they over did the nerf a bit and are working on re-addressing it. Calm down folks, nothing to see here, move along ?

There's plenty to see here!

giphy.gif

  • Haha 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

@parazightsorry the ''mutton OP'' thing was more aimed at other people who think that PVE ARK is competitive :D 

I mostly play PVE but played PVP a couple times. It's an unbalanced and laggy mess that is filled with cheaters and dupers but can be fun for some hours if you don't invest too much into it. I was rather arguing the points of some main PVP players here that got attacked by pure PVE players for their outcry.

I'm glad to hear that this was just a mistake by Wildcard.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2020 at 8:17 AM, DirebearGrylls said:

"If I was starting out!"--DILO?  it takes 2 1/2 hours just to tame a lvl 10 Therizino.  AND that's assuming you already have the resources to build a trap and other dinos to safely move around.  That's not starting out--starting out is you're a lvl 1 with nothing and you spawn in the middle of nowhere.  Previously, if you spawned in and found a sheep nearby, you could knock out and tame a decent leveled Carno in about the first 45 minutes and have it tamed in about an hour without expending many resources--I used to do that all the time on Aberration.  Now, to tame that same Carno, you're looking at about 4 hours instead and a much higher resource drain.

If you are a level 1 with nothing, you aren't taming and riding a Carno either.  Even a low level.  You don't get Tranqs until level 21.  At level 20 you already have stone building parts, but that's beside this point.   You can't ride the Carno until level 46, even if you use a club or slingshot to KO it!  Well, unless you get someone to give you the saddle.  In which case, get them to give you a low-to-them damage crossbow (150-170%) and a grip of tranq arrows.  And a few metal gateframes.  And a bear trap.  And a Giga saddle.  And some Exceptional Kibble.  Then you could be a  level 1 Giga rider, providing you can hand-pick enough berries to tame it!  Actually sounds like a fun game.  Do or die!  You trap and KO it or it eats you.  I know that Therizino saddles aren't available until level 69.  But I guess I just don't know where to draw the line in this situation...  Myself, I'd get veggie cakes and tame a few.  Travel to Ext first and get pods.  Tame sheep, pod them.  Travel to SE with a Ptera and fly drops.  Get premade chainsaw (eventually) from a drop.  Get most leveled sheep and HP pump it, then chainsaw it.

The underlined...  A decent level Carno in the first 45 minutes without expending many resources.  Maybe they are trying to move away from that, as well as preventing server-overload during harvesting and the resulting crashes.  Please note: I'm saying "maybe they are trying to move away from that" and not "for sure they are and anyone who wants to ride a Carno in the first 45 minutes is a moron and I know for a fact that is true and everyone else is wrong."  We are all Survivors, just offering my opinion at a possible motivation of why they might want to re-tool mutton.

But regardless of what us peons think, they are re-tuning Mutton as per Dollie's post on Twitter (I think it was Twitter), just like I thought they would:

19 hours ago, TheDonn said:

Halving the original gathered amount would definitely be better, but WildCard (as we have seen) is about finding the bottom-barrel solution and coming up from there.  This is probably the bottom.  Maybe they'll give us a bit back?

Turns out I was on to something.  So we shall see what they come up with!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

so the way I see it, is that Wildcard should up the item stack size from 1 to 10 and this would remove a large portion of the lag, as the lag is generated by the amount of stacks of items created rather than the number of items. The same could be said for prime meat and prime fish meat. It might give us console SP players a taste of modified stack sizes :( without renting a server.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but each tick the server has to recalculate the spoil time on each piece of mutton so I cant help but imagine that inventory cap mutton on tame and player would generate a lot of lag.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tomm1e1 said:

so the way I see it, is that Wildcard should up the item stack size from 1 to 10 and this would remove a large portion of the lag, as the lag is generated by the amount of stacks of items created rather than the number of items. The same could be said for prime meat and prime fish meat. It might give us console SP players a taste of modified stack sizes :( without renting a server.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but each tick the server has to recalculate the spoil time on each piece of mutton so I cant help but imagine that inventory cap mutton on tame and player would generate a lot of lag.

Its always been that way, and mass lag hasn't been as much of a problem until recently, but I only notice lag increase when people pillar spam the whole map, create huge bases that they don't need or use and have not yet discovered how to use a cryo pod to put 500 dinos away or at least some of them. each and every one of those have timers running.

 

I think meat timers have very little impact on the laggy servers.

Edited by reddotjellytot
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/5/2020 at 4:26 PM, Jerryn said:

Oh, I remember the days of the original 1X, when there were no crossbows or tranq darts(carried extra bows and repair materials; repaired my bow a few times when tranqing high level rexes), and no kibble, much less mutton.   You had to try to time your prime meat runs, and hope you scored; sometimes, you just came up empty on prime and the next bite was on regular meat.  And, then you learned how to fast transfer prime from your tame to yourself to the beast you were taming to minimize drop in spoil time while in your inventory.

Even when kibble started to become a thing, getting eggs was a lot of time; you spent days or weeks collecting scorpion eggs so you could make kibble for a high level rex.   From what I remember, the only time there was a chance for and egg was during re-rendering.  And no Oviraptors to help out back then.

I'm definitely a hardcore survival guy but this almost seems TOO much for my tastes, at least at default rates which I prefer. As a single player I think this paradigm would make me boost the rates. I really like watching PVPers who barely scrape together the ingredients for last minute clutch tames, etc, very entertaining. But these days doing that sort of gameplay myself only happens as the coffee kicks in, after I prefer to chill and slowly accumulate, ala RPG gameplay.

In team play this of course works fantastic I'm sure, rendering coordination and cooperation beneficial.

Still, I really wish I could experience concern of TE, rather than simply getting the best possible or not caring about the tame. Same with imprint percentage, with the way I play it's either 100% or I don't care on that dino.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, StaceyMalibu said:

When you get 1000 raw mutton and 15000 pelt on x3 from ONE Ovis you know its broken.

Was it seriously broken? Yes.
Did they nerfed it too bad? Yes.

This seems pretty sensible to me, BUT ,I play so far anwyay on the Island. I hear Ovis are rare there, so it makes sense to boost the rates a bit. However if you're on Rag and you can get Ovis with a quick Ptera trip, it would be too OP to raise the rates, yes?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/10/2020 at 12:37 PM, TheDonn said:

If you are a level 1 with nothing, you aren't taming and riding a Carno either.  Even a low level.  You don't get Tranqs until level 21.  At level 20 you already have stone building parts, but that's beside this point.   You can't ride the Carno until level 46, even if you use a club or slingshot to KO it!  Well, unless you get someone to give you the saddle.  In which case, get them to give you a low-to-them damage crossbow (150-170%) and a grip of tranq arrows.  And a few metal gateframes.  And a bear trap.  And a Giga saddle.  And some Exceptional Kibble.  Then you could be a  level 1 Giga rider, providing you can hand-pick enough berries to tame it!  Actually sounds like a fun game.  Do or die!  You trap and KO it or it eats you.  I know that Therizino saddles aren't available until level 69.  But I guess I just don't know where to draw the line in this situation...  Myself, I'd get veggie cakes and tame a few.  Travel to Ext first and get pods.  Tame sheep, pod them.  Travel to SE with a Ptera and fly drops.  Get premade chainsaw (eventually) from a drop.  Get most leveled sheep and HP pump it, then chainsaw it.

The underlined...  A decent level Carno in the first 45 minutes without expending many resources.  Maybe they are trying to move away from that, as well as preventing server-overload during harvesting and the resulting crashes.  Please note: I'm saying "maybe they are trying to move away from that" and not "for sure they are and anyone who wants to ride a Carno in the first 45 minutes is a moron and I know for a fact that is true and everyone else is wrong."  We are all Survivors, just offering my opinion at a possible motivation of why they might want to re-tool mutton.

But regardless of what us peons think, they are re-tuning Mutton as per Dollie's post on Twitter (I think it was Twitter), just like I thought they would:

Turns out I was on to something.  So we shall see what they come up with!

 

Not that it matters at this point because they already fixed the sheep.  But (1) I didn't say taming a Carno at level 1, I said "starting over" means spawn in at level 1.  (2) Whether you can ride it or not, you can still utilize a Carno for protection, meat/hide gathering, and gaining xp thanks to whistle commands until you are a high enough level to make a saddle. (3) If it takes you more than 10 minutes to reach level 21 and access tranqs on an official server, you're doing Ark wrong.   A tribe of 2 or 3 can grind levels insanely fast if you know how to multitask.  I did have 1 typo where I said "knock out and tame" and it was supposed to say "knock out" as indicated by the rest of the sentence where I described it taking about an hour to tame--That was the result of editing the sentence and not deleting part of it.  So yeah, it's actually not that hard to get a Carno that quickly, and it's actually pretty easy to get to level 46 anyway.  People who play on hc servers do this kind of thing all the time bc every time you die, you are starting back at lvl 1.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/5/2020 at 6:26 PM, Jerryn said:

Oh, I remember the days of the original 1X, when there were no crossbows or tranq darts(carried extra bows and repair materials; repaired my bow a few times when tranqing high level rexes), and no kibble, much less mutton.   You had to try to time your prime meat runs, and hope you scored; sometimes, you just came up empty on prime and the next bite was on regular meat.  And, then you learned how to fast transfer prime from your tame to yourself to the beast you were taming to minimize drop in spoil time while in your inventory.

Even when kibble started to become a thing, getting eggs was a lot of time; you spent days or weeks collecting scorpion eggs so you could make kibble for a high level rex.   From what I remember, the only time there was a chance for and egg was during re-rendering.  And no Oviraptors to help out back then.

You also only needed a slight ledge or two close trees in those days to knock literally anything out because it would run right at you and get stuck.  I remember in those days using slingshots to knock out just about anything because of this.  And force feeding narcoberries drained food, so you could basically tame anything in just a few minutes as long as you had a trike to mass harvest berries.  It's not like the early days were any harder, the game mechanics just became more complex to prevent the easy exploits and they added TONS of dinos and dino mechanics to make the game more challenging.  In fact, I have vivid memories of knocking out rexes that got caught on tiny rocks that barely rose above their toes before they fixed that.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, DirebearGrylls said:

Not that it matters at this point because they already fixed the sheep.

(1) I didn't say taming a Carno at level 1, I said "starting over" means spawn in at level 1.

I didn't make my point clear, not that it matters now anyway.  But the grossly-vast-majority of ARK players are not playing Hardcore ARK, so they aren't restarting from level one very frequently, that was my point really.  If you are playing hardcore ARK you of course will have a very different experience than non-hardcore players.

11 minutes ago, DirebearGrylls said:

(2) Whether you can ride it or not, you can still utilize a Carno for protection, meat/hide gathering, and gaining xp thanks to whistle commands until you are a high enough level to make a saddle. 

Fair point!  But honestly it will only get you so far.  A Carno, even 2, can be overwhelmed by Raptors and eaten, especially so if unsaddled.  They attack slower and rely on AI for movement and attacks, so they are heavily disadvantaged.  Even so, they can help to some extent even before being saddled.

11 minutes ago, DirebearGrylls said:

(3) If it takes you more than 10 minutes to reach level 21 and access tranqs on an official server, you're doing Ark wrong.

This whole discussion was about effectively gathering mutton.  If you are racing through levels every other day, then yes, you are doing ARK better than other people, and getting mutton is more important.  If you are just posting to talk about how you can level up really fast, I get it.  Play with a tribe and you can get a lot further, far quicker, and you might not even have to rely on mutton as much.  None of it really matters though, when there is change that seems to slow down gameplay speed it always frustrates people (not saying it slows you in particular down).  Again, doesn't matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

all true. Seems like they actually gave it a decent balance now at least.  It still give a decent amount, right now on the 3x, but nothing crazy, so it's definitely nerfed, but  not so much as to be completely unuseful.  Late game, mutton is still really useful for raising mass hoards of baby dinos.  Dump lamb chops on them and pretty much walk away as the lamb chops give significantly better food to weight ratio.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...