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Unbalanced Play - New Players Not Welcome


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Unbalanced Play - New Players Not Welcome

I have a two person tribe on an official server.   Last night, every single tribe on the server (mostly noobs) had their bases destroyed, their tames killed, and their resources just dumped on the ground.  Literally every single tribe save one was set back to NOTHING.  Dozens of players from the entire server were all having fun until this.  Most of us no longer want to play because there is no way to stop it from happening again.

The guy who did it is from a different server.   His tribe doesn't even play the server I am on.   They just send a guy over periodically to wreck everybody else's base for the implicit purpose of getting them to quit.  What!?  Why do that?  Why go around making sure nobody is playing on a server that you aren't even actively playing?!  Why is this even a thing that high level players can do!?  I was told this is not a bug.... it's a feature!!

This seems like a serious flaw in the game design.  There is no way to fight back.  For the game to be balanced there needs to be a defense against this.   Otherwise, new players have no reason to play.  The reward system that makes playing games worthwhile is obliterated by this flaw.

I'll probably not play anymore unless I discover a way to combat this "feature."   Nothing is fun about pedantically doing the same things over and over with zero chance of advancement.   These "trolls"  don't even gain anything from chasing everybody off the server.   They kill your tames and just dump your resources on the ground then move onto the next tribe.  I don't understand why the developers would not give new players the chance to actually enjoy the game instead of throwing them right into it with level 100 players who's only desire is to chase people off the servers.  Do they not want new players to enjoy their game?

I get that ARK is a hard game.   I don't mind that, I like a challenge.   But one guy should not be able to totally ruin weeks of play for dozens of new players in just a few hours.  That's not fun.   That's not challenging.   That's a broken game.   If I had known this about ARK I never would have bought it.  How can the devs spend so much time making such a unique game and then make it totally unplayable for new players?  It doesn't make sense to me.  Usually, game devs want new people to play their games.  (Glad I didn't buy the DLC since they are probably just as unapproachable.  I was excited to do so until I found out about this flaw in the game servers.)

Is there a way to play this game on official servers without having this happen?  Or are the official servers only good for large clans that have been around forever? 

Any advice would be welcome.   I really enjoy this game, but I am not going to play it when there is no way to advance because it's so unbalanced.  Nor am I going to play solo when I bought it so I can play with my friend.  We'll just find a game that isn't broken.

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If PVP isn't your thing, play PVE or rent a server for you and your friends to play on. There is really no other realistic alternative.

Yes but you see, 73% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Competition on a PVE server ?

4 minutes ago, hopdevil said:

1) The guy who did it is from a different server.   His tribe doesn't even play the server I am on.   Why go around making sure nobody is playing on a server that you aren't even actively playing?!  Why is this even a thing that high level players can do!?

2) I don't understand why the developers would not give new players the chance to actually enjoy the game instead of throwing them right into it with level 100 players who's only desire is to chase people off the servers.  Do they not want new players to enjoy their game?

3) Is there a way to play this game on official servers without having this happen?  Or are the official servers only good for large clans that have been around forever? 

The proceeding is my opinion and experience from the small-ish amount of time I spent on Official PvP.

1:  Because ARK is a game where you are damn near assured you are getting people's goat with what you can do in the game with raiding, particularly on Official PvP, and especially when you have hit a level where you know the majority of people can't touch you.  That's the fun part for some people who habitually wipe servers:  Knowing that tomorrow, people will be logging in to a respawn screen and a solid red TribeLog and then raging out, well... that right there is the best way for them to enjoy the game.  And they can do that, and they want to do that, so they do that.  Some of them might be YouTubers needing to post an updated griefing with AimBot video, but most are probably just wanting that salt with a distant secondary objective of looking for anything useful like blueprints.  They all have an endless supply of reasons why they do this, and it makes them seem justified and at the same time powerful, and the reasons make you even seem weak, but if there is nothing to gain, there is no reason other than bullying for the sake of bullying, because it's allowed, and you can.

2:  The developers have always left it up to the playerbase to decide how politics will work with PvP.  Long ago, the Alpha Tribe on a server kinda was a steward of the server, and kept things a bit healthy.  Some were more controlling than others (I remember having to broker a deal to build in an area), some would wipe anyone at metal tier (culling real threats), and I've seen some that were pretty laid back.  With cryopods and server transfers, there are no server Alphas, just Tribes with Powerful Creatures.  Toward the middle of Early Access, people started just killing/wiping anything that would move.  That trend hasn't really went away, and sure there are servers owned by MegaTribes, but they don't really "alpha" in the sense that they used to.  So, understand, it wasn't always like this, the players have made it like this.  WildCard hasn't done anything about it, but it is the players taking the liberty.

3:  There are many examples and stories of people surviving as solo players.  95% or more of them end up raided, 4% end up sticking around for a bit, getting some tames, and then getting raided, and the last 1% actually stay around and make it work as solo.  Survivors with Powerful Creatures show up and wipe servers for the lulz, and other big tribes think its funny.  Occasionally the Tribes with Powerful Creatures fight each other, and put it on YouTube with increased-pitch-vocal autotuned DubStep (every god-damned video, I REALLLLY don't get it!) serenading you as you watch 15 MEKs hack down the spam leading to their main base.  Every now and then, one is killed by a Rhino, and there are always Managarmr, nerf or not.  Those two things are the grossly vast majority of what happens on Official PvP:  Survivors with Powerful Creatures wiping servers, or two Tribes with Powerful Creatures spamming MEKs, Managarmr, and Rhinos on each other until one of their bases falls.

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18 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

Welcome to officials, where the fittest will thrive.

You should try hopping to other servers, set up and see how far you can get. Eventually you will find a server where this won't happen.

Thanks for the answer.   I was worried that's what it would be.

Not trying to argue with you... but being "fit" implies the ability to overcome the odds with good playing.   That's not the reality here.  I could play 24 hours straight for 10 days in a row and the other guy can just log in for an hour to totally defeat me with zero risk to his base/resources.  The ability to play the game well is not a factor.  The ONLY factor is how long you have owned the game.

But thanks again.   Maybe if the servers ever reset the game will be playable (for awhile anyways).  Until then, it's pointless.   No more of my time will go into this broken game.  I am sure there are thousands of perspective players who feel the same way.  I wish I could get my money back since I was of the understanding the official servers were playable when I made my purchase.   Now I am being told that if I want to do more than fiddle with sticks on the beach I either have to play alone or set up my own server for just me and my friend.  Which is just a work around an obviously broken game.   This "FEATURE" should be removed or changed to fix this imbalance.

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14 minutes ago, Aylana314159 said:

That's a human problem. 

 

You could choose to play whitelisted or even normal unofficial communities with rules you agree with. 

I cannot think of another game where high level players can leave their server to go to another server and dominate noobs.  Maybe this happens in more games and I just don't play them?  But usually there are balancing mechanics to give new players a chance to at least hurt the high level players in some way to discourage their attacks or mitigate the damage they do.  Those mechanics do not exist in ARK.

This feels like COD, but the guy on the other team gets to start the round with all of his killstreaks while I start unarmed.  That's not fun.   That's not competitive.   There is no reward for playing.  That is a broken game, and a game should work on it's "official servers."

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14 minutes ago, hopdevil said:

I cannot think of another game where high level players can leave their server to go to another server and dominate noobs.

Servers are irrelevant. You are on an official network. So either the large normal PvP or one of the other official PvP subsets.

 

15 minutes ago, hopdevil said:

But usually there are balancing mechanics to give new players a chance

It's a survival game. If you want balance you have to play on the Arkpocalypse servers that reset monthly. Every character is equal day 0 time 0, but players (humans) will not be equal in knowledge or skill.

 

There are also Primitive plus, classic/Conquest seasonal, and small tribes if you refuse to leave unofficial. Or the ORP offline raid protection official PvP servers.

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I agree with The post guy, we need space for The New ppl, The duping and The "Alphas" dont allow even old players to grow again. Im now in a tribe that have a vault of meks (smh) and we Cam Just wipe any smaller base with only meks, its a big Injustice, small is even worse, there you can with lucky survive 3 days, It could have like a protection for a recently created tribe, 1-7 days of protection, or a beginer server that wipes monthly where you can Go with you character, grind and then Go back to oficial, at least ppl could start with some turrets and basic tames. The guys that is against wipe all servers didnt Saw what i see all days in this server, My base looks like an tek drop base, we demo Tek structures for resoucers and we have mek wars every day, we got meks everywhere in map and How a newbie Will grow If we dont allow he to? Ark server is to everyone and not for The Alpha tribe or mega, Just give everyone a chance

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21 minutes ago, hopdevil said:

Except other games figure out ways to deal with it.   ARK is unapproachable on the official PVP servers.  One of the other posters estimated 99% of players quit because of it. 

That's a flaw in game design.   No way around it, that part of ARK is broken.

What other open world survival game actually balances PvP besides regular wipes?

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On 4/6/2020 at 4:07 PM, hopdevil said:

I cannot think of another game where high level players can leave their server to go to another server and dominate noobs.  Maybe this happens in more games and I just don't play them?  But usually there are balancing mechanics to give new players a chance to at least hurt the high level players in some way to discourage their attacks or mitigate the damage they do.  Those mechanics do not exist in ARK.

This feels like COD, but the guy on the other team gets to start the round with all of his killstreaks while I start unarmed.  That's not fun.   That's not competitive.   There is no reward for playing.  That is a broken game, and a game should work on it's "official servers."

You are preaching to the choir though, the idea that ARK Official PvP is played like ARK: CoD Evolved isn't new.  It's the reason people are willing to log into servers and bootlick the MegaTribes.  It increasees the likelihood they can get a single powerful creature and go all CoD on a bunch of bobs.

You won't change any PvP'ers mind here either.  Most of the PvP players who frequent the forums are very outspoken and proud of their ability to wreck noobs in the name of pre-pre-preemptive self defense.  The people who play PvE don't want to deal with that mess, so we all mostly play PvE to avoid that self-promoting toxicity.  And the devs, well they just let the game be the game.  In 5 years there have been damn near close to ZERO implementations to remove griefing opportunities, so I would guess they aren't starting now.

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i don't alot to add but i cannot stress enough that arkocalypse servers are the best way to pvp on the official network. also, try running or joining a private server.  I can assure you any problems or hangups you have with unofficial servers apply to official servers as well if you take a few minutes to think about it.

there are hundreds of videos on this exact phenomenon on this exact game that you are posting about. there are years worth of videos and posts on the crap parts of this game so new players really can only blame the surprise on a lack of diligence.  I don't know about you guys but i am not rich enough to spend money on things i haven't researched.

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On 4/6/2020 at 1:53 PM, hopdevil said:

 

The guy who did it is from a different server.   His tribe doesn't even play the server I am on.   They just send a guy over periodically to wreck everybody else's base for the implicit purpose of getting them to quit.  What!?  Why do that?  Why go around making sure nobody is playing on a server that you aren't even actively playing?!  Why is this even a thing that high level players can do!?  I was told this is not a bug.... it's a feature!!

 

 

 Why?  From a socioanalytic standpoint, operating with absolute freedom and anonymity allows people on games like this and in modes such as PvP to assert themselves in their most candid form. Its actually really exciting to watch and predict how people behave in this manner, because you can most assuredly realize that the majority are actually just pretty...terrible. 

 

This is where PvP turns most toxic. It is basically a 24/7 "Purge". 

 

So...Why not? Its for the thrill of killing an adversary when swinging at their own level or higher as a technical and realistically-impossible feat. I took no pride in it myself. Their job is simply to make you miserable. Your job is to make them realize that you don't like that, or to simply give them their way.  

 

On 4/6/2020 at 1:53 PM, hopdevil said:

These "trolls"  don't even gain anything from chasing everybody off the server.   

 

They are trolls; they gain pleasure from such things. That is all they usually desire in their boredom. A sociopathic trait well-noted in activities like these. In some cases, they could also be orders from an alpha on another server thats merged with the one on your own. That player didn't come out of nowhere.

 

 

On 4/6/2020 at 1:53 PM, hopdevil said:

I get that ARK is a hard game.  
 

It actually isn't when you get the hang of it. The hardest part is actually surviving the dev team.  

 

On 4/6/2020 at 1:53 PM, hopdevil said:

 There is no way to fight back.  

 

There is. Sticking around and fighting back will consume your time and ultimately a bit of your life, but if you're quarantined and just as bored right now... I'd suggest hiring a muscular stranger(s) and taking the fight back to them - its that little thrill of PvP when you aren't rubberbanding around each other in a ridiculous attempt at something they try to call "melee".

 

My take:   I've PvP'd from day one until I just got sick of that "job" and went to PvE, so allow me to express to you that most PvP servers only have the exact same people from the exact same tribes running about, whilst destroying anyone else that approaches. Its a survival game, but that also means the Official player base is exceptionally limited to Mega Tribes and the smaller few that manage to elude their sight. 

 

Additional advise:  You can always hit an unofficial x20 server that may be around for a couple of weeks only, but it'll let you get some PvP maneuver knowledge in there to better prep yourself though. Obtain quickly, build quickly, battle quickly and die quickly. Do it again. Then do it again. After that..?

 

...You do it. Again.  Soon you'll be able to slap the troll upside the back of the head and tell them "Hey...stopit!" and they very well may do that, from my experience.

 

3 hours ago, TheDonn said:

You are preaching to the choir though, the idea that ARK Official PvP is played like ARK: CoD Evolved isn't new.  It's the reason people are willing to log into servers and bootlick the MegaTribes.  It increasees the likelihood they can get a single powerful creature and go all CoD on a bunch of bobs.

These are facts. It is a very human thing to do - people even do the same things on forums in order to get certain threads closed down after they've said their peace, knowing moderators have their backs. It cannot be changed, but it can be acknowledged. 

 

Its all honestly a waste of time unless you just enjoy breaking things. It can be therapeutic. Too many lagswitching quickscopers on CoD half the time though..

 

 

 

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Thanks for all the kind responses.   I guess if you're on the inside looking out you don't think there is an issue.   But if you're a noob who wants to play something other than PVE then I guess it's just "tough luck."

I'll leave a review warning other players of this since I cannot get my money back.   Maybe if the servers ever wipe I'll be open to playing it again.  It's too bad.   This game was fun for a while and I was hopeful I could put a ton more hours and eventually enjoy the DLC.   Obviously, the devs and the community do not want new players.  I'll try PVE maybe, but that kinda gets rid of the tribal diplomacy that was advertised in the game when I bought it.

I don't really understand why this status-quo is acceptable for so many.  It's possible to figure out a way to tweak things so new players are welcomed and the alpha tribes can still go around compensating for their lack of sex life by trolling new players.  Things like using earned XP to pay for server jumps based on a percentage so it effects higher level players more.   Or a meta-stash for each player so they can hide a small amount of items that they can access at drop points and cannot be raided by other players.   These things don't seem unreasonable and would not have a dramatic effect on gameplay.  Alphas could still wreck people's bases and kill their tames but there would be a cost associated with it.   New players could still play the role of victims but not lose EVERYTHING.   This would make the game tolerable for new players in PVP without taking the "fun" out of it for the alpha tribe players.  I just don't see the fun in the current paradigm.   Even trolling new players must get tedious after a while.

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