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Nerfing TekSuit Durability is probably a good thing....

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On 3/21/2020 at 12:04 PM, Zen00 said:

The real question is why do you need 3000 durability tek armor? I've been running around in my 300 durability primitive set for months and they're still at about 40% durability.

 

About the only time armor durability matters is if I stupidly put myself into a position where I can be eaten by something. And that's just so I can come back later to retrieve it.

It really comes down to individual server setups. Every player plays Ark for different reasons and enjoys different things. That's why servers are customizable, and why there's unofficial servers at all.

It gets frustrating for people when hard fixes for official servers suddenly upend peoples private servers. Especially when they gave us the options in the first place. On my server, our server difficulty is cranked up so high that vanilla tier armor gets shredded like paper. We like it this way, it raised the 'ceiling' so to speak. But we scaled armor and weapons up to balance it. We also balanced things with the idea that most of our tribes are 1-3 people large but we still want them able to complete all game content, like alpha genesis missions.

Way back when we opened our first server we did extensive testing and tweaking to get things how we wanted, and repeated the process everytime we added a new server. Now suddenly over a year later, our tek armor suddenly has less durability than our flak armor, AND costs a ton more to repair. I know our tek armor now gets torn apart in gauntlet missions on genesis (where you aren't allowed dino mounts). People are understandably upset. I know if they don't fix some of the issues they've been introducing lately, I'm going to have to go back and re-balance my servers again, because suddenly content that was doable, is no longer doable for us with our current server setups and people shouldn't be having to do that over a random fix for official servers.

And it's not just the tek armor. It's when they take this approach to anything. For example, they gave us the option to build in mission zones on unofficial Genesis servers, so we turned that option on and built in mission zones. They then hard coded a fix that instantly destroys all structures in gauntlet mission zones upon startup to stop abuse on official servers... without considering that they gave unofficial servers the ability to build in them. We had tons of stuff just wiped out the moment a player tried to run a gauntlet mission. No warning, nothing. That sort of thing shouldn't happen when we explicitly set our servers to allow us to build in mission areas - which wildcard gave us the option to do. (Also forewarning, loot bags dropped on death are treated like an attempt to place a structure so if you die in a gauntlet mission now, you lose everything as it's instantly deleted).

Hard-coding changes that essentially override the custom options they gave people is just kind of... crappy? I'm not one to rage about things, or flail on the internet when I'm mad at a game. But a lot of the stuff they've been doing lately has been extremely frustrating. Especially their heavy-handed hard line fixes to deal with cheating/abuse without considering ways to avoid everyone else getting caught in the cross-fire.

Edited by Raghild
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On 3/22/2020 at 11:18 PM, MrHalloween said:

"u mean super op dinos" - exploit

ive had rexes with -126348763/20 i know

and its still an exploit, how can people be like...how dare people use exploits....then say nooo dont take away my super bred exploited dinos

it severly effects game balance and is unintended

 

 

 

The cap of level 450 is there for a reason:  THAT is the maximum they intend to see on the servers without dinos getting wiped.  Dinos come at max level 150, perfect tame for most (with a few exceptions) is 224 post-tame.  Level 450 is a long way off, that is a lot of breeding and mutating to get there.  Now, no one had really corrected you on the next point, so I will do so very directly so there is no misunderstanding.

 

Having 23452345/20 mutations on a dino is in no way, shape, or form an exploit.  It is 100% intended functioning gameplay through breeding.  Please watch a few videos.

 

I understand that in the heat of discussion it is easy to throw around terms like that, but understand, it is part of ARK gameplay that you increase your lines through breeding and will come close to the 40/40 mutation cap AND the level 450 cap, even if you dirty-breed (meaning you don't keep your mutated stats clean and separate but rather immediately breed them back in to your mutation stud). 

The aforementioned level 224, let's talk about that using only the 40/40.  You do the work for two stats, HP and melee, and cleanly cap out one 20/20 male and a 20/20 female with HP and melee respectively.  Aside from HP and melee, their stats are identical, and you started at level 224.  Each mutation adds 2 levels, so we get:

224 + 40 = 264 <--  Post-20/20 mutations.  This dino has 20 mutations, which means 40 extra levels at birth.  But we are trying to combine them to a max of 40/40.  Because we have identical stats aside from HP and melee, we will add 40 mutations for a total of 80 additional levels.

224 + 80 = 304.  Add 73 to that (73 is the current maximum number of bonus levels one can add to a domesticated creature in ARK), and we get 377.  That's just 2 stats.

If we add another stat you wanted to get high, but only 20 mutations, say weight also (we'll just add it straight on to lessen the tedium):  377 + 40 = 417.  Coming real close to that cap of 450 now.  We add in stam, and it's basically done with a level 447 max-level dino.  All said and done, the dino in the end has 20 mutations in HP, stam, weight, and melee, shows 80/20 on the mutation counter, and is within 3 levels of never being seen again.

Take the 80/20 dino, breed it.  Baby has 160/20.  Breed it back.  That baby has 240/20.  Breed it back again.  New baby is at 400/20.  That's how fast it happens, and it isn't a goddamn exploit.  The TEK suit dura nerf affecting the entire platform is unwelcome, but honestly unexpected.  Same thing with the Rhino nerf, I haven't ever committed seriously to Rhinos because I knew they would be screwed with eventually.  And here we are, I've been breeding raptoring Rhinos and they get 4.5% charge bonus damage shaved the raptor off a few weeks later.

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1 hour ago, TheDonn said:

The cap of level 450 is there for a reason:  THAT is the maximum they intend to see on the servers without dinos getting wiped.  Dinos come at max level 150, perfect tame for most (with a few exceptions) is 224 post-tame.  Level 450 is a long way off, that is a lot of breeding and mutating to get there.  Now, no one had really corrected you on the next point, so I will do so very directly so there is no misunderstanding.

 

Having 23452345/20 mutations on a dino is in no way, shape, or form an exploit.  It is 100% intended functioning gameplay through breeding.  Please watch a few videos.

 

He’s talking about when you overbreed your lines and the count goes negative it allows you to continue breeding them for mutations because the negative number is below 20/20 but yea your right either way lvls are capped and points per stat have a cap 

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6 hours ago, TheDonn said:

The cap of level 450 is there for a reason:  THAT is the maximum they intend to see on the servers without dinos getting wiped.  Dinos come at max level 150, perfect tame for most (with a few exceptions) is 224 post-tame.  Level 450 is a long way off, that is a lot of breeding and mutating to get there.  Now, no one had really corrected you on the next point, so I will do so very directly so there is no misunderstanding.

 

Having 23452345/20 mutations on a dino is in no way, shape, or form an exploit.  It is 100% intended functioning gameplay through breeding.  Please watch a few videos.

 

I understand that in the heat of discussion it is easy to throw around terms like that, but understand, it is part of ARK gameplay that you increase your lines through breeding and will come close to the 40/40 mutation cap AND the level 450 cap, even if you dirty-breed (meaning you don't keep your mutated stats clean and separate but rather immediately breed them back in to your mutation stud). 

The aforementioned level 224, let's talk about that using only the 40/40.  You do the work for two stats, HP and melee, and cleanly cap out one 20/20 male and a 20/20 female with HP and melee respectively.  Aside from HP and melee, their stats are identical, and you started at level 224.  Each mutation adds 2 levels, so we get:

224 + 40 = 264 <--  Post-20/20 mutations.  This dino has 20 mutations, which means 40 extra levels at birth.  But we are trying to combine them to a max of 40/40.  Because we have identical stats aside from HP and melee, we will add 40 mutations for a total of 80 additional levels.

224 + 80 = 304.  Add 73 to that (73 is the current maximum number of bonus levels one can add to a domesticated creature in ARK), and we get 377.  That's just 2 stats.

If we add another stat you wanted to get high, but only 20 mutations, say weight also (we'll just add it straight on to lessen the tedium):  377 + 40 = 417.  Coming real close to that cap of 450 now.  We add in stam, and it's basically done with a level 447 max-level dino.  All said and done, the dino in the end has 20 mutations in HP, stam, weight, and melee, shows 80/20 on the mutation counter, and is within 3 levels of never being seen again.

Take the 80/20 dino, breed it.  Baby has 160/20.  Breed it back.  That baby has 240/20.  Breed it back again.  New baby is at 400/20.  That's how fast it happens, and it isn't a goddamn exploit.  The TEK suit dura nerf affecting the entire platform is unwelcome, but honestly unexpected.  Same thing with the Rhino nerf, I haven't ever committed seriously to Rhinos because I knew they would be screwed with eventually.  And here we are, I've been breeding raptoring Rhinos and they get 4.5% charge bonus damage shaved the raptor off a few weeks later.

If they intended dinos to have unlimited amount of mutations why does the 20/20 limit exist to begin with ? 

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lol the cost to repair means nothing when you can dupe vault fulls in 30 mins....on official the megas known to abuse the dupe already have max tek suit and meks the same day of patch...... vaults n vaults of them ..they had millions of element from the ferox glitch so once they farmed and duped the blue prints making the pieces until max craft was just time since all resources were duped.

only good thing about the patch was clusters fixed the rest isn't stoping the abuse of pvp with meks n tek suits.

 

if you have 2 ps4 and a laptop you can dupe slot caps in 15 min since its done externally I have no idea how they can even stop the duping method atm. the wipe helped for a day  but its right back to as it was already on official.

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9 hours ago, covenantgrunt said:

If they intended dinos to have unlimited amount of mutations why does the 20/20 limit exist to begin with

Because they might've intended to cap per-stat mutations at 20 per stat.  Very, very, very exceptional tames are 55 points post-tame, meaning 95 points in a 20/20 stat would still TECHNICALLY be possible and one would just be touching the mutation cap.  That is one example of one stat, bred cleanly, which DOES happen.  Reading my examples it is easy to see how quickly you can cleanly and legitly come to the level cap.  So, the mutation cap is obviously supposed to create some sort of limit, but it fails to.  That doesn't mean it's an exploit, and that was the point I was making.  I was not trying to fully rationalize why the breeding system has been allowed to work the way it does for 4+ years, that's for someone else in WildCard who knows specifically why.  I can't answer that, none of us can truly answer that, so it isn't really worth examining unless we get clear official information about why.

15 hours ago, Markdh31788 said:

He’s talking about when you overbreed your lines and the count goes negative it allows you to continue breeding them for mutations because the negative number is below 20/20 but yea your right either way lvls are capped and points per stat have a cap

Yeah, that's what I feel about it too.  This integer overflow calculation-error, unlike purpose-driven, designed, and engineered exploits, most likely was discovered by happenstance for most people, but even that I can't say for sure. 

The difference is that you can hit -28858509/20 with a few muts (~10 real mutations), all it takes is some irresponsible breeding.  In the end though, you are still left with a level ~250 baby that now can breed and mutate stats again.  In no way does that allow you to gain an unfair advantage over someone else, whether you are on PvP or PvE.  Someone else with a (non-negative) 6464003/20 mutation level 449 is still gonna whoop the snot out of you (or be able to steamroll OSDs and bosses), regardless of you breeding into the negative so you can now mutate again.  Everyone will eventually all tow the level 450 line, negative muts or not.

Edited by TheDonn

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9 hours ago, vilanov said:

the wipe helped for a day  but its right back to as it was already on official.

Helped for a day on officials and screw over all unofficials ...way to go WC !

On our cluster we have no problems with dupers and exploiters, if someone comes to our attention doing "bad things" he gets a fair warning and if he doesnt comply he's gone, simple.

Still we got hit hard by the STUPID and useless nerf that was meant for official PvP servers in the first place, but hardcoded to screw up everyone...

What can i say...WAY TO GO ! 

It has cost me a full day of tweaking the Super Tek mod settings to get a halfway balanced replacement for the ruined high durability (and most importantly reasonably repairable) tek armor. Still not happy with the result but better than the wet horsepoo WC presented us with!

Edited by nworlds
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On 3/24/2020 at 3:03 AM, nworlds said:

Ok, just had to repair my awesome 1500 dura armor and what a nice surprise...the repair costs are FREAKING ASTRONOMICAL !

SERIOUSLY, DO WHAT YOU WANT ON YOUR STUPID OFFICIAL SERVERS  BUT LEAVE US ALONE WITH THAT CRAP!

The repair costs were stupid before. Expensive flak costs more to repair than prim. The same should apply to tek. If it takes a week to farm a good tek suit then it should take you at least a couple of days to farm up repairs as well. You want nice things, then you need to pay for it. 

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3 hours ago, whoareyou said:

The repair costs were stupid before. Expensive flak costs more to repair than prim. The same should apply to tek. If it takes a week to farm a good tek suit then it should take you at least a couple of days to farm up repairs as well. You want nice things, then you need to pay for it. 

While I agree with you that it makes no sense why flak would cost more to repair than Tek..... BUT the whole point of this post is, give unofficial options to tweak these settings ourselves not just hardcode changes intended for official.

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8 hours ago, whoareyou said:

The repair costs were stupid before. Expensive flak costs more to repair than prim. The same should apply to tek. If it takes a week to farm a good tek suit then it should take you at least a couple of days to farm up repairs as well. You want nice things, then you need to pay for it. 

I am not talking about official grindfest servers, i'm talking about my OWN server where the notorious "fix" made tek repairs not 20% more expensive, it made it 20x more expensive while cutting durability in half!

I didnt ask for that change on MY server, i dont have dupers and cheaters on MY server, Grindfest servers have vaults over vaults of duped stuff AGAIN after just a few hours from the "intervention" and MY server is still broken from it!

As a conclusion, the point is, i dont mind Wildcard doing whatever they think is right for their grindfest servers, i couldnt care less to be honest. I would NEVER even dream of playing on those completely broken cheater infested monstrocities.

What i absolutely DO MIND, is that their effective or not so effective changes apply to PRIVATE UNOFFICIAL servers/clusters that don't even have the problems those so called fixxes are intended to fix...

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1 hour ago, nworlds said:

I am not talking about official grindfest servers, i'm talking about my OWN server where the notorious "fix" made tek repairs not 20% more expensive, it made it 20x more expensive while cutting durability in half!

I didnt ask for that change on MY server, i dont have dupers and cheaters on MY server, Grindfest servers have vaults over vaults of duped stuff AGAIN after just a few hours from the "intervention" and MY server is still broken from it!

As a conclusion, the point is, i dont mind Wildcard doing whatever they think is right for their grindfest servers, i couldnt care less to be honest. I would NEVER even dream of playing on those completely broken cheater infested monstrocities.

What i absolutely DO MIND, is that their effective or not so effective changes apply to PRIVATE UNOFFICIAL servers/clusters that don't even have the problems those so called fixxes are intended to fix...

You keep sayin “MY server” yes it is your server to set rates and whatnot as you see fit but the game and how they program it is there’s to do with as they want to. Don’t like the added grind it makes then increase your rates. At the end of the day they can do whatever they want with the game they don’t owe you anything just because your renting a server 

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5 minutes ago, Markdh31788 said:

You keep sayin “MY server” yes it is your server to set rates and whatnot as you see fit but the game and how they program it is there’s to do with as they want to. Don’t like the added grind it makes then increase your rates. At the end of the day they can do whatever they want with the game they don’t owe you anything just because your renting a server 

I think you mistake me for someone who rents a nitrado server, sorry to disapoint you there my friend, i use a dedicated windows server and i have done all the setup work on my own, so yes, it is MY server!

And yes, they can change whatever they want on "their" game, but end of the day myself and everyone playing on MY server have paid for the game and all the DLC's so it's not irrational IMHO to have demands about the way i am beeing treated!

Edited by nworlds
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2 hours ago, nworlds said:

I think you mistake me for someone who rents a nitrado server, sorry to disapoint you there my friend, i use a dedicated windows server and i have done all the setup work on my own, so yes, it is MY server!

And yes, they can change whatever they want on "their" game, but end of the day myself and everyone playing on MY server have paid for the game and all the DLC's so it's not irrational IMHO to have demands about the way i am beeing treated!

Your being treated no different to the rest of the ark community your entitled to nothing but the game as they design it plain and simple 

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That is not the way i see it,

At the point WC gives us the tools to configure our own servers with the settings we see fit for our community, we are entitled to keep those settings as we see fit and not being overruled by "fixes" that don't even address a problem on our servers but only theirs.

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3 hours ago, nworlds said:

That is not the way i see it,

At the point WC gives us the tools to configure our own servers with the settings we see fit for our community, we are entitled to keep those settings as we see fit and not being overruled by "fixes" that don't even address a problem on our servers but only theirs.

The problem was that tek suits were brokenly over powered and it's almost impossible to die in a capped armour 2k+ tek suit. It's a survival game, yes a top tier end game item is supposed to increase your suitability but they were too good. 

The other problem was that the repair cost did not scale with quality. This always seemed like a bug or an oversight to me. In any case it's been changed to bring it in line with every other repairable item in the game. 

They weren't problems with official PVP, they were problems with the game that affected YOUR server. If you don't like it I guess you can just spawn in a new tek suit whenever you need one. 

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I have a feeling you play a different game my friend, as explained in detail in prior posts it so very much depends on the server settings how armor behaves, and for me it was just fine and you were in no way immortal in a maxxed tek suit!

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22 hours ago, whoareyou said:

The other problem was that the repair cost did not scale with quality. This always seemed like a bug or an oversight to me. In any case it's been changed to bring it in line with every other repairable item in the game. 

Not exactly... No other quality item in the game overrides personal settings, or hard clamps at a set number that can't be altered by increasing/decreasing the custom settings for armor/weapon clamps. 

It's just straight up overriding settings. No other type of repairable item does that. Our replicator tells us a single piece of tek costs 30 polymer to fix it. But actually eats over 400 polymer when you hit repair. Despite it telling you it only needs 30, it fails to repair when you hit repair if you don't have the amount in the replicator that it actually invisibly wants. No other repairable item does that. 

This isn't a case of changes bringing these things in line with other items. This is a change that's straight up disregarding settings in any way. 

Personally all for them lowering the durability cap on tek armor and having the repair costs scale properly. As long as the custom settings can still raise/lower those numbers (like every other repairable item in the game).

Edited by Raghild

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On 3/28/2020 at 8:11 AM, Raghild said:

Not exactly... No other quality item in the game overrides personal settings, or hard clamps at a set number that can't be altered by increasing/decreasing the custom settings for armor/weapon clamps. 

It's just straight up overriding settings. No other type of repairable item does that. Our replicator tells us a single piece of tek costs 30 polymer to fix it. But actually eats over 400 polymer when you hit repair. Despite it telling you it only needs 30, it fails to repair when you hit repair if you don't have the amount in the replicator that it actually invisibly wants. No other repairable item does that. 

This isn't a case of changes bringing these things in line with other items. This is a change that's straight up disregarding settings in any way. 

Personally all for them lowering the durability cap on tek armor and having the repair costs scale properly. As long as the custom settings can still raise/lower those numbers (like every other repairable item in the game).

Ahh, ok, thank you for explaining this. I understand the issue now and agree that it's broken.

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