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TorakWolf

What is wrong with the Final Test?

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Posted (edited)

What is wrong with the Final Test?

Title says it all. How are we supposed to beat it legit on Beta and Alpha when 20k HP 800% Melee Rexes can't beat it on Gamma? So... Reapers were deeply exploited, but are they the only way to solid beat it? If yes, how do they help at any when Tek Gigas can inflict bleeding? What are the options now? And most importanly, the recorded proof?

 

Now, why is this boss so risky, hard and short-timed? All I and my buddies wanted was having some fun with Skiffs and Astrocetus, not playing "ARK Souls". It's doable but awfully stupidly hard, there is no way they will waste so much time of their lives for 5 Tekgrams.

 

Don't get me wrong, we did it until the last phase just OK, but the damn Gigas wrecked us hard. I thought about using Tek Saddles to dispatch them at distance, but the lasers "Tek Rocky" shots make everything harder. Also, they can spawn right in front of us.

Edited by TorakWolf

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Endgames are designed around map specific creatures in ark. Look at the other expansions to get clues. Game crafting means that if you’re just going to do the same thing every time, then is it really a new fight or new map? No. In Tek Cave, rexes work because it was the first map. In AB, they didn’t have rexes, they had rock drakes. Had to adjust to succeed. Extinction, you had rexes, but you aren’t beating all the titans with it, and therefore couldn’t beat king with them, that required new mechanics. So why are you trying to do things in the same manner as you did in previous maps? One of the map specific Dino’s/mechanics will eventually become the pivot point, same as all the other ascensions were. Instead of complaining about “rawr can’t do map same as all others, nerf now!” Explore the content, understand the strengths and weaknesses, and go from there. I doubt rexes will be the end result answer on this one. I’m of the belief that Ferox will be.

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42 minutes ago, Gunner120mm said:

Endgames are designed around map specific creatures in ark. Look at the other expansions to get clues. Game crafting means that if you’re just going to do the same thing every time, then is it really a new fight or new map? No. In Tek Cave, rexes work because it was the first map. In AB, they didn’t have rexes, they had rock drakes. Had to adjust to succeed. Extinction, you had rexes, but you aren’t beating all the titans with it, and therefore couldn’t beat king with them, that required new mechanics. So why are you trying to do things in the same manner as you did in previous maps? One of the map specific Dino’s/mechanics will eventually become the pivot point, same as all the other ascensions were. Instead of complaining about “rawr can’t do map same as all others, nerf now!” Explore the content, understand the strengths and weaknesses, and go from there. I doubt rexes will be the end result answer on this one. I’m of the belief that Ferox will be.

Scorched Earth was easily doable with rexes.

To beat Rockwell you'd use megalosaurs which isn't an aberration dino.

On extinction you could spam dinos on the titans.

The final test on gamma is doable with rexes (haven't tried beta yet) so, so far doing the same old thing has been working for all dlcs. Really doubt the ferox is going to be the best dino for this fight. As a ride mount maybe, but for the rest you want something that can stay alive so among the new dinos magmasaurs.

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Posted (edited)

@Gunner120mmas soon as the servers open up and people bring in rexes everyone will destroy the boss easily. Why suffer and waste your time by losing boss armies when already super mutated dinos will easily beat the boss. This game is not Dark Souls, I play Souls games if I want a challenge ^^ or Rimworld on the hardest difficulty and random mode :D 

Edited by Fukushu

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The point he was making was essentially that using the same Dino, and I’m assuming he was talking about on official servers. AB, the best method was a mix of rock drakes and Megas, yes, but still much easier once transfers were enabled and you could bring big saddles for the megas and share across servers for drakes. For King Titan, spamming Dino’s to get brutally murdered seems rather inefficient, when realistically you just tame the titans and it becomes a rather straightforward fight. At least understand where both sides are coming from, since we are currently discussing right now, not some distant future where we can transfer to Genesis, and certainly not unofficial. If you’re looking to make the fight more reasonable given the parameters the vast majority of players are playing with, Ferox seems to be the best methodology. As far as super mutated Dino’s are concerned, I’m sure we all have 10-12 rex teams or more in cryo that would easily handle this fight once transfers are enabled. That doesn’t assist this second. 
 

As far as Beta and Alpha are concerned, this is supposed to be a “late late game” map. Not all fights are meant to be won by a solo or duo tribe, not all of them are designed for that to be feasible.  I’m not entirely sure this map is currently balanced correctly given the parameters that they’d already established regarding previous dlc. If your sole agenda was to do gamma everything and you focused your efforts on it, a six person tribe could do that inside a week on all the other ones prior to transfer using mostly wild tames, game knowledge and skill, almost inevitably without a loss of Dino. The only exception to that would be tek cave, due to levels of Dino’s in the cave itself, not the boss. Ferox solves a lot of the issues involved in Dino loss, from what I can see, but I also wasn’t in a mindset to rush the content. We attempted the gamma ascension the other day to simply see what the mechanics of the fight are, and as I said, seems Ferox enragement will play a large part in it.

 

As others have said before, if you want to play Rag, go back to rag. This is a different map, if you’re disappointed, then you obviously had unreasonable expectations.

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3 hours ago, Gunner120mm said:

The point he was making was essentially that using the same Dino, and I’m assuming he was talking about on official servers. AB, the best method was a mix of rock drakes and Megas, yes, but still much easier once transfers were enabled and you could bring big saddles for the megas and share across servers for drakes. For King Titan, spamming Dino’s to get brutally murdered seems rather inefficient, when realistically you just tame the titans and it becomes a rather straightforward fight. At least understand where both sides are coming from, since we are currently discussing right now, not some distant future where we can transfer to Genesis, and certainly not unofficial. If you’re looking to make the fight more reasonable given the parameters the vast majority of players are playing with, Ferox seems to be the best methodology. As far as super mutated Dino’s are concerned, I’m sure we all have 10-12 rex teams or more in cryo that would easily handle this fight once transfers are enabled. That doesn’t assist this second. 
 

As far as Beta and Alpha are concerned, this is supposed to be a “late late game” map. Not all fights are meant to be won by a solo or duo tribe, not all of them are designed for that to be feasible.  I’m not entirely sure this map is currently balanced correctly given the parameters that they’d already established regarding previous dlc. If your sole agenda was to do gamma everything and you focused your efforts on it, a six person tribe could do that inside a week on all the other ones prior to transfer using mostly wild tames, game knowledge and skill, almost inevitably without a loss of Dino. The only exception to that would be tek cave, due to levels of Dino’s in the cave itself, not the boss. Ferox solves a lot of the issues involved in Dino loss, from what I can see, but I also wasn’t in a mindset to rush the content. We attempted the gamma ascension the other day to simply see what the mechanics of the fight are, and as I said, seems Ferox enragement will play a large part in it.

 

As others have said before, if you want to play Rag, go back to rag. This is a different map, if you’re disappointed, then you obviously had unreasonable expectations.

Oh I totally see the other side, figuring out what dinos the devs meant for you to use to make the fight easier etc.  Just saying you could get rexes on most dlc maps pre-transfer and at least get gamma and beta bosses done, so it really hasn't changed since vanilla ark.

Haven't touched ferox with how broken they are atm, could you elaborate on how it would be useful for the final test?

Is hoping for an open map an unreasonable expectation? Teleportation is a novel idea and convenient for resource gathering, but it being build able spots and not always working properly really puts a damper on it.

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15 hours ago, Gunner120mm said:

The point he was making was essentially that using the same Dino, and I’m assuming he was talking about on official servers. AB, the best method was a mix of rock drakes and Megas, yes, but still much easier once transfers were enabled and you could bring big saddles for the megas and share across servers for drakes. For King Titan, spamming Dino’s to get brutally murdered seems rather inefficient, when realistically you just tame the titans and it becomes a rather straightforward fight. At least understand where both sides are coming from, since we are currently discussing right now, not some distant future where we can transfer to Genesis, and certainly not unofficial. If you’re looking to make the fight more reasonable given the parameters the vast majority of players are playing with, Ferox seems to be the best methodology. As far as super mutated Dino’s are concerned, I’m sure we all have 10-12 rex teams or more in cryo that would easily handle this fight once transfers are enabled. That doesn’t assist this second. 
 

As far as Beta and Alpha are concerned, this is supposed to be a “late late game” map. Not all fights are meant to be won by a solo or duo tribe, not all of them are designed for that to be feasible.  I’m not entirely sure this map is currently balanced correctly given the parameters that they’d already established regarding previous dlc. If your sole agenda was to do gamma everything and you focused your efforts on it, a six person tribe could do that inside a week on all the other ones prior to transfer using mostly wild tames, game knowledge and skill, almost inevitably without a loss of Dino. The only exception to that would be tek cave, due to levels of Dino’s in the cave itself, not the boss. Ferox solves a lot of the issues involved in Dino loss, from what I can see, but I also wasn’t in a mindset to rush the content. We attempted the gamma ascension the other day to simply see what the mechanics of the fight are, and as I said, seems Ferox enragement will play a large part in it.

 

As others have said before, if you want to play Rag, go back to rag. This is a different map, if you’re disappointed, then you obviously had unreasonable expectations.

No dino is better on Genesis in terms of raw power than Rexes, except Magmasaurs WHEN ON THE VOLCANIC BIOME. It is not of any help using them on this boss, but again, it is not like you have tested it. Because if you did, you would know that no live animal can handle Gnashing for extended periods of time. Meanwhile, I've indeed tested all the possibilities and concluded that you need both a good pack of Rexes or Kentros and half a dozen of mek players with M.D.S.C... For Gamma.

 

I'm sorry to say, but WE ARE at endgame. The problem isn't what we expend, but rather how to do it at any. We can give as much as needed to complete it, but we can only use Genesis items, creatures and mechanics as of now.

 

I'm not talking about what is required to beat it, and if it is expensive (note: nothing is too expensive for Tekgrams and Ascensions), but how we should keep a bunch of us alive during a hell of a fight, and manage to complete it. We are efficient farmers, experienced players and meta-explorers, but we don't have unlimited time in our hands to keep doing the same thing until we get the hang of it.

 

In other words, the boss is broken. It is possible, but presents a challenge far beyond what it should have been, and this only brings frustration. Try it yourself and tell me the results, also what you came across. Some videos here showe 4-5 Gigas spawning on Stage 4 then not anymore, but I call this BS when every serious streamer and player has dozens of them in the matter of minutes.

 

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On 3/18/2020 at 6:31 PM, gojinki said:

Scorched Earth was easily doable with rexes.

To beat Rockwell you'd use megalosaurs which isn't an aberration dino.

On extinction you could spam dinos on the titans.

The final test on gamma is doable with rexes (haven't tried beta yet) so, so far doing the same old thing has been working for all dlcs. Really doubt the ferox is going to be the best dino for this fight. As a ride mount maybe, but for the rest you want something that can stay alive so among the new dinos magmasaurs.

well the megalosaurus is an aberrant dino.....

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Sure, but the result would be the same with non-aberrant megalosaurs, practically the same creature.
Not exactly, non aberrant ones still have the day-night cycle limiting their strength even on aber, so during aber daytime they are still sluggish like on other maps, even worse on days like 90%day 10%night.

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10 minutes ago, Leebum said:

With all due respect, you can't just throw dinos at a titan. it has to be spcific ones and rexes dont cut it.

rexs for mobs, 5 part mek for titan.  know this works we did that on extinction. prep to start battle, have all meks out and ready to merge, merge mek, and initiate battle right after for max rex in ring with mek.

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King Titan was easy enough before, but now we got Magmasaurs which inflict explosive damage (King Titan takes 2x damage from explosives).

All you need is the Forest Titan, a group of players on Magmas and a Mek with M.S.C.M to defend from meteors.

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22 hours ago, caleb68 said:

rexs for mobs, 5 part mek for titan.  know this works we did that on extinction. prep to start battle, have all meks out and ready to merge, merge mek, and initiate battle right after for max rex in ring with mek.

Merging can only be done with the king titan so you obviosuly mean the king titan fight. 

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1 hour ago, Leebum said:

Merging can only be done with the king titan so you obviosuly mean the king titan fight. 

unless they changed it, you could merge meks for 30 seconds outside of king titan, but yes, I meant the king titan fight.   Quatzel for desert titan, 1 person in a good high level mek can do forest titan, never done ice titan but watched it once, looks scarey lol.

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On 3/18/2020 at 4:40 PM, Gunner120mm said:

Endgames are designed around map specific creatures in ark. Look at the other expansions to get clues. Game crafting means that if you’re just going to do the same thing every time, then is it really a new fight or new map? No. In Tek Cave, rexes work because it was the first map. In AB, they didn’t have rexes, they had rock drakes. Had to adjust to succeed. Extinction, you had rexes, but you aren’t beating all the titans with it, and therefore couldn’t beat king with them, that required new mechanics. So why are you trying to do things in the same manner as you did in previous maps? One of the map specific Dino’s/mechanics will eventually become the pivot point, same as all the other ascensions were. Instead of complaining about “rawr can’t do map same as all others, nerf now!” Explore the content, understand the strengths and weaknesses, and go from there. I doubt rexes will be the end result answer on this one. I’m of the belief that Ferox will be.

Harsh words but some good ideas! Will give them a go

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Posted (edited)

X-dinos.

They added dinos with natural 60% damage reduction for a reason, and that reason is to beat the bosses of this expansion. Forget about the dinos you have bred on other maps and start breeding X-dinos, they will be the only way to beat the boss at beta and alpha level.

Edited by SilverScythe
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2 hours ago, SilverScythe said:

X-dinos.

They added dinos with natural 60% damage reduction for a reason, and that reason is to beat the bosses of this expansion. Forget about the dinos you have bred on other maps and start breeding X-dinos, they will be the only way to beat the boss at beta and alpha level.

Except tamed X-dinos don't keep their damage reduction or their damage boost. They are literally just reskinned aberrant dinos post tame. 

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5 hours ago, SilverScythe said:

X-dinos.

They added dinos with natural 60% damage reduction for a reason, and that reason is to beat the bosses of this expansion. Forget about the dinos you have bred on other maps and start breeding X-dinos, they will be the only way to beat the boss at beta and alpha level.

Uhh, these variations DO NOT keep damage reduction upon tame. They have a small hp/dmg buff (around +-3%) similar to Abberant versions and that is that.

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Posted (edited)

Damage reduction does nothing to help beating those pesky tek Gigas. The gnashing will kill EVERYTHING that can bleed in less than 4 minutes by itself unless healed, and I'm not even counting the absurd amount of piercing damage done by avatars using bows. I really, really wished Rexes weren't the answer, but so far they (and Kentros) have given me the best results. Ferox? What's the point of high damage when you need to constantly change helmets mid-battle or risk having them die due to their low health pool? And of course, they give no significant defense against armor piercing attacks.

 

Like I said, Meks. Sadly, the arena is really small and the time is fairly limited, so even with all caution taken, it's possible to have some people die during the process as well as simply run out of time. Neither of those risks are acceptable when you throw the best possible tools for a boss fight, being done by experienced players. Dealing with the Gigas in the last stage is like clearing the Tek Cave of its Gigas with Rexes or Pumps, instead of baiting them away (and I'm not counting using another Giga, since that's - probably - patched), then going another Tek Cave and do the same thing without healing, and going against the timer feels like forcing people to do Manticore with bows and arrows. And when you have both of these at the same time, it's absolutely outrageous.

 

I've tested enough. Not gonna consider hearing anything short of a solution, that includes blindly believing WC made this boss reasonably possible with current Genesis resources and creatures: They didn't, face it. It's barely doable because of "unintended features" that were left untouched by WC (spawning meks inside arenas) and the only solid way of doing it, from what I've heard, was removed from both PvP and PvE (not to mention that it was a pretty dirty exploit and not simply something unexpected).

Edited by TorakWolf

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1 hour ago, Darkholis said:

Why does people insist on taking in rexes when therizinos are simply better boss fighters is baffling... They can easily handle those pesky gigas provided you have enough cakes in them and proper saddles.

Im afraid even the cakes can't save the theri's, constant giga bleed, and the dinotars dogpile, just too much imo.

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