X Creatures. Bad Design

[Dok]

X Creatures. Bad Design

No dev will read this, and that’s fine, but here is a small rant. X creatures are a bad design, a 50% damage and torpor reduction from all sources leaves players with no strategy and causes taming dinos to be useless. I’m a pve player since beta, and if tamed dinos are useless (trust me they are, go take your Rex out and see how it fairs against literally anything) then what is my purpose in the game? I’m all for a harder experience, but no solution to a 50% damage reduction just isn’t fun. If it was 50% damage reduction against just tamed dinos, atleast players could get weapons and look for higher quality weapons and that would just be a different meta. Played Genesis since start, lost a 212 carno to a 55 and 20 raptor, and lost a mutton tame 220 Rex to a 140 yuty. Also lost myself and a tribe mate to that fight. Rant over.

[Kazaanh]

Genesis is not an Island map for beginners.

Its supposed t to filter out weak links.

[CryptidHorror]

Filtering out weak links is one thing but one you tame the x creature it loses that fancy damage reduction of near 50%. I'm all for working harder to tame then but don't take the thing about them that makes them special away once they've been tamed. Or at least Nerf the wild reduction rate a tad. 

 

At this point it leaves you in worry if you should be taking out your fresh tame when you've just started. Even if that fresh tame happens to be max level tamed. 

[ThatPat99]

Just leave your tame in a cryopod for a few days and pop it out. It'll have like 20+ levels on it. And if you're gonna take them out, bring a second one for the mate boost. The damage reduction is actually 60% on X-dinos, which is a bit overkill, but I'm not having any major difficulties with it. Now if I run into an X-Rock Elemental, that could be an issue

[caleb68]

hrm…  so being I fist punched two x critters to death with regular melee on me means it took me twice as long as it should of with a normal dino?   I do like the look of the x-dinos though, Still wanna get another anky, if I can find a high level one and a breedable pair of rexs from the lava zone.

[Likeitis]

On 2/29/2020 at 8:09 PM, Dok said:

X Creatures. Bad Design

No dev will read this, and that’s fine, but here is a small rant. X creatures are a bad design, a 50% damage and torpor reduction from all sources leaves players with no strategy and causes taming dinos to be useless. I’m a pve player since beta, and if tamed dinos are useless (trust me they are, go take your Rex out and see how it fairs against literally anything) then what is my purpose in the game? I’m all for a harder experience, but no solution to a 50% damage reduction just isn’t fun. If it was 50% damage reduction against just tamed dinos, atleast players could get weapons and look for higher quality weapons and that would just be a different meta. Played Genesis since start, lost a 212 carno to a 55 and 20 raptor, and lost a mutton tame 220 Rex to a 140 yuty. Also lost myself and a tribe mate to that fight. Rant over.

Im on pve official, just collect 300 ish tranq arrows, 4 crossbows, and try to trap a max lvl yuti in snow, maybe a boosted pair eventually. Thats what i did, the fear roar works well against x variants. Also a yuti can get to 30k hp fairly easy.

[SummerChild]

The part where you are mentioning dying a lot, really was making me think of one of the quotes after repairing a glitch where HLN-A says something about dying and how it is different for us cause of the simulation or the like.

[Tezcatlipoca]

The more interesting question is, what will the new dinosaurs bring me? In PvE, they primarily have higher demands on equipment and dinosaurs. But why should I go to work and tame these dinosaurs on a cluster? If they are not better, I can use normal or aberrant dinosaurs. Then that's no longer a feature, but a clumsy nerf of the existing equipment spiral.

Can the X creatures do anything better than other tamed animals?

[TheDonn]

3 minutes ago, Tezcatlipoca said:

The more interesting question is, what will the new dinosaurs bring me? In PvE, they primarily have higher demands on equipment and dinosaurs. But why should I go to work and tame these dinosaurs on a cluster? If they are not better, I can use normal or aberrant dinosaurs. Then that's no longer a feature, but a clumsy nerf of the existing equipment spiral.

Can the X creatures do anything better than other tamed animals?

Some might say they do "looking better" than the other variants.  Other than that, no, they are functionally equivalent to all others in terms of ;abilities and effects.  If conventional wisdom holds up, I believe they might have a very minor stat difference compared to normal dinos a-la Aberrant dinos and their ~5% increased melee damage, but past their look and the small, small stat tweak, no.  They don't do anything better other than be a bigger threat.

I live in Snow area, and I'll admit, Wild X-Yutys scare me.  Almost lost a few dinos several times because of their stoutness and extra damage while wild, and fear-roar.

And when they hit you and your mount right after getting Microraptor'd.  Yuck.

[TR-8R]

Wild X-Dino got 50% damage reduction , even a low level wild X-Dino can put a heavy dent to your high level tamed that was lv 150 in wild .

I would say it is quite bs.

[Qwertymine]

Oh no, something makes the game mildly challenging and stops me from stomping entire ecosystems with some random dino I found, whatever shall I do?

It isn't bad design, Corrupted were an example of bad design with their ability to destroy any structure despite being extremely common and kite-able. The X-Creatures bring a good balance the to PvE environment. It is Player vs Environment afterall, the X creatures should be difficult to deal with. 

[caleb68]

if your looking for a plus side on the X-Dinos, with the damage reduction it makes torpoing them easier.  Less Damage = More levels.  the torpo seems to still effect them the same as the regular dinos, hopefully it stays that way, so your doing less damage to them while tranqing them to tame.

[Castlerock]

if your looking for a plus side on the X-Dinos, with the damage reduction it makes torpoing them easier.  Less Damage = More levels.  the torpo seems to still effect them the same as the regular dinos, hopefully it stays that way, so your doing less damage to them while tranqing them to tame.

Torpor applied is directly proportional to damage dealt from tranq, if tranq deals half damage the torpor gain is halved as well.
And how does less damage = more levels? Whether they took 1k or 5k dmg to ko doesnt affect their taming effectiveness unless they took damage after ko

[caleb68]

9 minutes ago, Castlerock said:

Torpor applied is directly proportional to damage dealt from tranq, if tranq deals half damage the torpor gain is halved as well.
And how does less damage = more levels? Whether they took 1k or 5k dmg to ko doesnt affect their taming effectiveness unless they took damage after ko

you've never noticed that when you do large amounts of damage to a dino that the taming effectiveness is lower then when you do less damage to a dino using the same food to tame? 

Far as the torpo, scanning with HLNA while Tranqing im not seeing any reduced torpo effect in knocking them out, and i'm using the same amount of tranq's as a standard dino.  so if its suppose to be 50% reduced torpo, I hope thats something they Don't fix.

[Qwertymine]

2 minutes ago, caleb68 said:

you've never noticed that when you do large amounts of damage to a dino that the taming effectiveness is lower then when you do less damage to a dino using the same food to tame?

That's never been a thing. Dinos only lose effectiveness if they take damage after being KO'd and lose it as they eat. I could KO a Rex with 1 health left and it would still have max effectiveness. 

[Tezcatlipoca]

 

6 minutes ago, caleb68 said:

you've never noticed that when you do large amounts of damage to a dino that the taming effectiveness is lower then when you do less damage to a dino using the same food to tame? 

Far as the torpo, scanning with HLNA while Tranqing im not seeing any reduced torpo effect in knocking them out, and i'm using the same amount of tranq's as a standard dino.  so if its suppose to be 50% reduced torpo, I hope thats something they Don't fix.

The effectiveness is always 100% after the KO. Every incoming damage after loss of consciousness and every consumption of food reduces it.

If your Tames are starting to be less effective, you should just be a little more careful. You probably did damage when the animal was already knocked out.

[caleb68]

15 minutes ago, Tezcatlipoca said:

The effectiveness is always 100% after the KO. Every incoming damage after loss of consciousness and every consumption of food reduces it.

If your Tames are starting to be less effective, you should just be a little more careful. You probably did damage when the animal was already knocked out.

its possible that lag is adding to that effect, but the taming effectiveness isn't changing from the start, its the drop rate of the effectiveness that im referring to.  if im causing damage to a dino by standing next to it watching its torpo, thats got to be a bug ;).

I know if you hit the dino with a final tranq it will drop the initial taming effectiveness if that dino drops before the damage is applied, have had that happen several times, or be timing the tranq and fire one more thinking i needed another and the dino drops just as i fire.

for instance.... when im starting a new character and am using berries / meat to tame with because im not far enough along to use kibble,  I'll note that sometimes the effectiveness is going below the normal amount when it started with 100%, and other times it hasn't,  the only difference that i've found between them and the effectiveness is the initial damage.  I normally tame in a secure pen, not out in the open, to prevent any outside damage from critters, and clear / keep clear the area close by of any wandering ones so they don't get to close to that pen.

Kibble tames I haven't really seen any changes with usually starving then shove the kibble in to prevent loss just in case something does wander in and attack, but kibble tames are normally pretty fast and i only do those on 2x or greater.

I play PC on Official donno if that makes any difference.

(edit in: not debating it, just trying to understand what other reasons would cause this sticking with one food type, and the dino not receiving any damage after ko'ed)

[TheDonn]

Yeah, it's damage dealt after the moment/instant of knockout that hurts the TE.  It doesn't matter if that last arrow knocks the dino down to 1 HP when it falls unconscious, all that matters is that from that moment on, it not be damaged.

When not taming with kibble, you see how badly the base taming foods really wreck the TE.  It's crazy.  But hey, it's ARK.  A threatening environment really adds to the feel of the game, that's why I think Ab was so fun.

[MightyBanana]

didn't lose a single tame so far. l2p issues. 

[Darkholis]

They are just an annoyance until you establish yourself, once that part is over, I could care less about them really.

[mackyish3r3]

I actually heard that on official, tamed X Dino’s can go up to lvl 500 instead of the normal lvl 450. But not confirmed yet, this info is from someone with a dev kit

[Darkholis]

1 hour ago, mackyish3r3 said:

I actually heard that on official, tamed X Dino’s can go up to lvl 500 instead of the normal lvl 450. But not confirmed yet, this info is from someone with a dev kit

I have the dev kit and I've not seen that personnaly.

[gojinki]

X creatures really pointless.

They add some difficulty to the map sure, but that is only for a fresh starting out character. Once you've gotten far enough they are not a problem, likewise if it's a transferred character. X creatures fall short and so far I've found no reason to tame them (other than looks). Haven't noticed any better stats over base versions so far (might be bad luck on my part), not to mention tek versions so zero care about x-rexes.

[TR-8R]

What is so special about X-creatures anyways , aside from the skin ?

Wild version get 30% damage reduction while the tamed version only act like Aberrant version ( 5% more dam , 5% less HP ) .

You have to do shoot more to KO the wild , and at the same time a low level wild is bigger threat than you high level tamed .

The effort vs reward is abysmally low .

[Thorium]

10 hours ago, TR-8R said:

What is so special about X-creatures anyways , aside from the skin ?

Wild version get 30% damage reduction while the tamed version only act like Aberrant version ( 5% more dam , 5% less HP ) .

You have to do shoot more to KO the wild , and at the same time a low level wild is bigger threat than you high level tamed .

The effort vs reward is abysmally low .

X-Variants are also immune to lava, which can be useful on genesis.