Genesis: X-creatures

[Castlerock]

Maybe they just want to trick players into starting out in bog where its harder instead of the ocean, give the a hard time.
Also, i noticed a few things about the ocean biome. Other than the slight speed increase which allows me to outswim sharks, if swimming along the surface eels dont aggro and air bubbles restore stamina and oxygen immediately, so i managed to explore the whole ocean naked and got 12 free glitches fixed.

[TinyHippo]

49 minutes ago, Darakull said:

In my opinion, making the wild dinos stronger is a step in the right direction. That being said, they went WAY too far. Considering the 66% damage resistance, regeneration, bonus damage against your tames, and buffed up stats, X variants are insane... well, until you tame them and they magically lose everything, that is. It's weird, and feels like artificial difficulty.

I agree on both parts, it feels a bit wrong for them to just get so much weaker as you tame them, but wild dinos do need to become stronger. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the better way to make wilds stronger would be. X-dinos are definitely an improvement to how it was though, but I do hope that they can somehow make it work out so that wild dinos can remain threatening while still letting us use their power when tamed, as contradictory as that is. 

51 minutes ago, Darakull said:

I mean, raptors were supposed to be stepping stones, really scary the first time you see them but something you can overcome relatively early as you get your first real weapons. And they should be that way, since they are everywhere. In Genesis, raptors are the stuff of nightmares, as all of them seem to be the X variant. And the best thing is how the bog is full of them. Can anyone explain to me how the bog, full of insta-kill x-raptors with 66% damage resistance, is an easy zone while the Ocean, where you spawn in a 100% safe area with no predators, plenty of resources and free hexagons at hand, is hard?

Well, the X-raptors are still honestly pretty easy to deal with. The bola still works on it, and the wild ones can't pounce, and they have no damage bonus against humans. You have to be paying attention and they're definitely a danger to your tames now, but that's a good thing I think.
The difficulty does seem a bit strange though, but I think I kinda understand it. The ocean is a wonderful place to spawn at as a beach bob, but you can't stay there for long (on official settings, you can't build on the pillars you spawn at) so your only option is to move on until you can make your way up to a pillar that you can build on. The bog is ranked as 'easy' because it's the easiest place that you can actually build in. 
That's just me trying to rationalize it though, all that really matters when spawning in is how difficult it is to spawn in to, since you can just teleport away anyway. The ocean spawns are waaaaay easier to spawn into than the bog spawns.

Also, just a little correction: X-dinos have 60% damage resistance, not 66%, and their exact bonus damage is 2.5x. As for the stats, they're almost identical to vanilla. They have slightly less health and slightly more damage, but the difference isn't as much as aberrant dinos have.

[Kraegor]

I went to Lunar surface, fought a 180 Tek Rex. He was hitting my Theriz for about 85 per hit.

Then I went to Lava biome and fought a level 140 X-Rex. He was hitting my Theriz for 320 per hit.

Also went to Arctic biome and got smacked by a 150 Rhino doing about 310 damage per hit.

Wow.. seriously.. these are some insane damage numbers coming off the X Species

 

[NovaSpartan]

I don't understand how we're supposed to combat the X-Species Dinos. Major damage resistance and extra damage they deal and when we tame them the one we get is weak. I mean it feels like about all of the Combat Tames are pointless now because they're always going to be outclassed by the X Creatures. I genuinely don't like this.

Is there a way to reduce the damage resistance and extra damage in an ini file or something?

[Castlerock]

Well, the X-raptors are still honestly pretty easy to deal with. The bola still works on it, and the wild ones can't pounce, and they have no damage bonus against humans.

I'm not entirely sure, but i fought a few normal raptors not on genesis and they didnt attempt to pounce me at all, so i think its not just wild x-raptors.

Yes, it's easier t survive. but getting resources to build up in the ocean is hard, especially since there's barely anywhere to build.

U can gather all the resources u can in ocean biome first then transfer to another biome to build your base.

[Darakull]

8 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

I agree on both parts, it feels a bit wrong for them to just get so much weaker as you tame them, but wild dinos do need to become stronger. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the better way to make wilds stronger would be. X-dinos are definitely an improvement to how it was though, but I do hope that they can somehow make it work out so that wild dinos can remain threatening while still letting us use their power when tamed, as contradictory as that is.

They would need to revamp the whole leveling up system, but that's a problem they've had since EA. Since wild dinos level up a random stat instead of a useful one, tames will always be stronger. In addition, leveling up should increase a stat by a fixed number and not a percentage, as you get insane geometric power curves otherwise. Their RPG math is just out of whack. Every RPG which doesn't stay very low level implements some form of diminishing returns, either via increased increment costs or via the game's damage formulas. It's not rocket science.

However, every step they've made to correct this issue has been a step in the wrong direction (nerfing tames, adding artificial bonuses to wild dinos, etc). At the end of the day, they are making an obscure game even more obscure. The level number in a dino was meaningless enough, now with those new variants it's even worse.

8 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

Well, the X-raptors are still honestly pretty easy to deal with. The bola still works on it, and the wild ones can't pounce, and they have no damage bonus against humans. You have to be paying attention and they're definitely a danger to your tames now, but that's a good thing I think.
The difficulty does seem a bit strange though, but I think I kinda understand it. The ocean is a wonderful place to spawn at as a beach bob, but you can't stay there for long (on official settings, you can't build on the pillars you spawn at) so your only option is to move on until you can make your way up to a pillar that you can build on. The bog is ranked as 'easy' because it's the easiest place that you can actually build in. 
That's just me trying to rationalize it though, all that really matters when spawning in is how difficult it is to spawn in to, since you can just teleport away anyway. The ocean spawns are waaaaay easier to spawn into than the bog spawns.

I'll have to agree to disagree about the X-Raptor difficulty. Trying to raise a new character there is brutal. Removing the pounce is a welcome change, but since they have an insanely fast attack speed anyway, they destroy my hide-wearing character in two seconds. The bolas do help me to get away, but I'm barely even able to kill one before the effect expires (about 30-40 damage with a fully charged bow headshot, and that's to a low level one with at least ten times that in HP) so if they move around or come near my base, it's game over. It doesn't help that they always seem to come in packs, with the mate boost to add insult to injury.

It may be the case that I'm having bad luck with spawns, as others have similar complaints about sarcos or other dinos I have yet to find in the bog. However, the point stands that the bog does not work as a starting point. And since they patched out the no-build in mission areas 'feature', well... I mean, I know it's still that way in official, but official is by far the less popular way to play the game, so at the moment there is no way to rationalize the bog as the easiest spawn.

[TinyHippo]

39 minutes ago, Darakull said:

I'll have to agree to disagree about the X-Raptor difficulty. Trying to raise a new character there is brutal. Removing the pounce is a welcome change, but since they have an insanely fast attack speed anyway, they destroy my hide-wearing character in two seconds. The bolas do help me to get away, but I'm barely even able to kill one before the effect expires (about 30-40 damage with a fully charged bow headshot, and that's to a low level one with at least ten times that in HP) so if they move around or come near my base, it's game over. It doesn't help that they always seem to come in packs, with the mate boost to add insult to injury.

It may be the case that I'm having bad luck with spawns, as others have similar complaints about sarcos or other dinos I have yet to find in the bog. However, the point stands that the bog does not work as a starting point. And since they patched out the no-build in mission areas 'feature', well... I mean, I know it's still that way in official, but official is by far the less popular way to play the game, so at the moment there is no way to rationalize the bog as the easiest spawn.

That's a bit strange... Basically every X-raptor I've seen so far was alone, or in a pair of just two. I haven't seen a large pack of raptors like I would on other maps at all. I thought that X-raptors were only supposed to be spawning in pairs of two
Maybe I'm the one who got lucky...

My method of killing them has been to bola it and then bite its tail off with my tamed X raptor (which was fairly easy to tame since it was alone.) The wild one doesn't die by the end of the bola, but it's low enough that my raptor can finish it off quickly.
This definitely wouldn't work against 2 or 3 X-raptors, but it worked well enough for me that I was able to build up a fabricator in the bog. I guess if you're getting normal-sized raptor packs it'd be an entirely different situation

[Darakull]

5 minutes ago, TinyHippo said:

That's a bit strange... Basically every X-raptor I've seen so far was alone, or in a pair of just two. I haven't seen a large pack of raptors like I would on other maps at all. I thought that X-raptors were only supposed to be spawning in pairs of two
Maybe I'm the one who got lucky...

My method of killing them has been to bola it and then bite its tail off with my tamed X raptor (which was fairly easy to tame since it was alone.) The wild one doesn't die by the end of the bola, but it's low enough that my raptor can finish it off quickly.
This definitely wouldn't work against 2 or 3 X-raptors, but it worked well enough for me that I was able to build up a fabricator in the bog. I guess if you're getting normal-sized raptor packs it'd be an entirely different situation

Perhaps I'm the unlucky one, but I've never seen less than two, with 3 being the most common case. There were bigger packs in the other maps for sure, but I have yet to find the single lone X-raptor, which I'm confident I would be able to kill or tame.

I feel like they don't want anyone to level up in the DLC and the intended way to play is either to bring a high level character, or do a glitch run to instantly get 20-30 levels and purchase any resources you need from HLNA. If that's the case it's pretty disappointing because that's just skipping all the fun parts

[Castlerock]

I feel like they don't want anyone to level up in the DLC and the intended way to play is either to bring a high level character, or do a glitch run to instantly get 20-30 levels and purchase any resources you need from HLNA.

It easier to lvl a char on other maps and bring it to genesis. On ext with 2x xp and 4x note buff 1 red osd can get u to lvl96+. Another way is to get any high lvl megatherium in a cryopod, wear a gas mask and go to swamp cave on island.

[TinyHippo]

I wonder if it's the case that wild X-dinos do more damage to tames, or just to dinos in general.

You might be able to use the wandering stegos to kill the X-raptors, or at least serve as bait while you shoot arrows at them. If X-dinos have the bonuses against wilds though, then I don't think the stego will last for very long...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember there being a feature that when some small dinos are on fire, they run away crazy-like for the duration of the fire. Has anyone tried torching a raptor to make it run off, and potentially thin out the pack? Or am I remembering something that didn't exist maybe?

10 minutes ago, Darakull said:

I feel like they don't want anyone to level up in the DLC and the intended way to play is either to bring a high level character

Considering that there seems to be no way to get most of the tekgrams on the map, this is the most likely case (and has honestly been the case since Aberration, so this was kinda expected)

[Cailean556]

6 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

I wonder if it's the case that wild X-dinos do more damage to tames, or just to dinos in general.

You might be able to use the wandering stegos to kill the X-raptors, or at least serve as bait while you shoot arrows at them. If X-dinos have the bonuses against wilds though, then I don't think the stego will last for very long...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember there being a feature that when some small dinos are on fire, they run away crazy-like for the duration of the fire. Has anyone tried torching a raptor to make it run off, and potentially thin out the pack? Or am I remembering something that didn't exist maybe?

Considering that there seems to be no way to get most of the tekgrams on the map, this is the most likely case (and has honestly been the case since Aberration, so this was kinda expected)

Yeah the "intended story arc" for Genesis is that your character has survived the events of The Island, Scorched Earth, Aberration and Extinction and, as such, the Homo Deus (perhaps not directly) are now testing your character in the Genesis simulation to see if you are, in fact, the "ultimate" survivor.

Ergo, the intent is that you bring your high/max level character to Genesis. There's certainly nothing stopping you from creating a new character but, as people are discovering, Genesis is no place for a Level 1.

As for X-creatures, I run my Steam SP and Xbox/Win 10 server with some fairly significant stat increases for tamed dinos. In SP on Steam (don't have Genesis on Xbox/Win 10 yet) I tamed an X-Raptor (Can't remember its level, 50 something pre-tame - as I didn't realise my difficulty had been reset to default, I use 0.01 in SP) and went up against an X-Spino (one of the missions) on an X-Raptor that had nearly 10k health and over 2k melee. The fight only lasted about 60 seconds and the X-Spino had shredded me.

I don't know if maybe I went in there with too much confidence, as with the stat increases for tamed animals in my games nothing can really challenge my mounts 1v1, but I was not expecting the ferocity of what occurred. Lesson learned, next time I'll be ready.

The one thing I do hate about the X-dinos, and it's the same for the Giga, is that these "super dinos", once tamed, become standard stats-wise. If they're just going to become standard (i.e. not boosted) when tamed, why even bother having them tameable at all? Just add your regular dinos alongside these X-dinos and make X-dinos spawns rare, so when you come across them with your regular tames, you either avoid them or hope whatever you have is enough...

Same with fliers on Genesis. If they're tameable, and rideable, in other maps - why are they not rideable in Genesis? If the intent was "no fliers" (which is fair enough, they did it for Aberration) why add fliers to the map when you can't use them?

[TinyHippo]

3 minutes ago, Cailean556 said:

The one thing I do hate about the X-dinos, and it's the same for the Giga, is that these "super dinos", once tamed, become standard stats-wise. If they're just going to become standard (i.e. not boosted) when tamed, why even bother having them tameable at all? Just add your regular dinos alongside these X-dinos and make X-dinos spawns rare, so when you come across them with your regular tames, you either avoid them or hope whatever you have is enough...

I agree that it's annoying that they become unremarkable once tamed. X-dinos should absolutely have some sort of bonus, even if not combat related (or maybe especially not combat related.) because it's definitely disappointing to see something so strong instantly turn so weak.
As for why not just make them rare spawns with non-X-dinos for taming... That's because they don't want the threat to be rare, but common. You can still tame normal versions of a lot of the X-dinos, but I don't think you can tame normal versions of all of them. I know that there are tek raptors, rexes, and trikes in the lunar biome, and I believe there's a normal argy too. So, at least in some cases, you can just tame a normal one instead.

10 minutes ago, Cailean556 said:

Same with fliers on Genesis. If they're tameable, and rideable, in other maps - why are they not rideable in Genesis? If the intent was "no fliers" (which is fair enough, they did it for Aberration) why add fliers to the map when you can't use them?

You can still use the fliers there, just not for flying, although the uses aren't very useful. You could use pteros as a flying attacker that can have a saddle for armor unlike the dimorph, though I don't really know what you'd use it on... Maybe other players? The argy still works as a decent pack mule that you just tell to follow you instead of ride it, as well as a mobile smithy, and it has decent combat abilities (not against X- though...) The tapejara is pretty useless, but can you maybe get in a passenger seat and whistle it to move? The pelagornis... Ok, I've got nothing there.

Oh, and you can probably still use the grappling hook strategy to fly that solo players have used in the past for quetzal taming.

[Cailean556]

17 minutes ago, TinyHippo said:

I agree that it's annoying that they become unremarkable once tamed. X-dinos should absolutely have some sort of bonus, even if not combat related (or maybe especially not combat related.) because it's definitely disappointing to see something so strong instantly turn so weak.
As for why not just make them rare spawns with non-X-dinos for taming... That's because they don't want the threat to be rare, but common. You can still tame normal versions of a lot of the X-dinos, but I don't think you can tame normal versions of all of them. I know that there are tek raptors, rexes, and trikes in the lunar biome, and I believe there's a normal argy too. So, at least in some cases, you can just tame a normal one instead.

You can still use the fliers there, just not for flying, although the uses aren't very useful. You could use pteros as a flying attacker that can have a saddle for armor unlike the dimorph, though I don't really know what you'd use it on... Maybe other players? The argy still works as a decent pack mule that you just tell to follow you instead of ride it, as well as a mobile smithy, and it has decent combat abilities (not against X- though...) The tapejara is pretty useless, but can you maybe get in a passenger seat and whistle it to move? The pelagornis... Ok, I've got nothing there.

Oh, and you can probably still use the grappling hook strategy to fly that solo players have used in the past for quetzal taming.

Perhaps I should have said "rarer", so far as your normal dinos would appear as equally or more so for a player to tame. Having said that Alphas are a rare spawn and I don't think I need to exaggerate just how many of those I kill on a daily basis - especially Alpha Raptors. That's on The Island though, not on Genesis. 

Apparently the Tek dinos don't hit as hard as their X counter parts, which is interesting in itself. I've not tested that particular claim.

As for fliers in Genesis, you're right "no use" probably wasn't the right term. The Argie probably has the most "non-flying" utility but the expectation is you see a bird flying, you tame it and expect to fly it too... If they didn't want fliers, they could have made different creatures, that couldn't be ridden, to fulfil these functions for Genesis.

The GOOD thing about the X-dinos is their very beautiful colour schemes, it's a pity you can't breed them with their non-X counterparts.

[Graviphoton]

On 2/27/2020 at 10:39 PM, Joebl0w13 said:

I broke 4 bows shooting a X Parasaur in the face. I don't mess with them now either.

I tried to tranq X-Para L145 with bow - I used bola and after 21 headshots he was still standing. Then ran off without any problem...

9 headshots on standard Para should be OK so if for X-dino I has to calculatd with 2.5 more I was almost there (22 or 23 headshots needed). ?

[Aonima]

I've noticed for a 150 x rex it takes almost 300 tranq arrows to knock it. Bring three when you do. Melee is better health is absolute poop. Too bad they can't protect you from magmasaur blast.

[DarthSkywarp]

Can you tame to Rock Elementals in the volcano cave?

[Val500]

What are all the X type dinos?

I am having a hard time finding a complete list of all the new X species dinos? Does anybody have a list by chance?

[Sl8erj]

20 hours ago, Val500 said:

What are all the X type dinos?

I am having a hard time finding a complete list of all the new X species dinos? Does anybody have a list by chance?

there is  one on page two of this thread 

[HoganRyan01]

On 2/29/2020 at 1:51 PM, Darakull said:

Perhaps I'm the unlucky one, but I've never seen less than two, with 3 being the most common case. There were bigger packs in the other maps for sure, but I have yet to find the single lone X-raptor, which I'm confident I would be able to kill or tame.

I feel like they don't want anyone to level up in the DLC and the intended way to play is either to bring a high level character, or do a glitch run to instantly get 20-30 levels and purchase any resources you need from HLNA. If that's the case it's pretty disappointing because that's just skipping all the fun parts

You should have a decent character from the island if you play the maps in order

[Darakull]

7 minutes ago, HoganRyan01 said:

You should have a decent character from the island if you play the maps in order

I have one, but I prefer to create a new character from scratch and level up through the tech tiers, it is feasible (and more fun IMHO) in every other DLC.

[HoganRyan01]

4 hours ago, Darakull said:

I have one, but I prefer to create a new character from scratch and level up through the tech tiers, it is feasible (and more fun IMHO) in every other DLC.

While I agree the "story" is meant to be played by transferring your character from one map to the next from the island to genesis

[ikarirain]

I get that they wanted to make pve a viable challenge again, but this is kinda ridiculous.

https://pasteboard.co/IXz5DCu.png

Why even bother taming?

 

Edit: Just for clarification, I had 7 Megalodons guarding a Dunkleo.  That Lv4 tanked 7 sharks long enough to wreck 3 of them.

[Mariner]

Like others I had to adapt quickly.  If you bring a bred Dino (doesn’t have to be a serious Dino with %100 imprint, mainly about the rider bonus), another Dino opposite sex (mated pair buffs) and throw on a decent saddle it balances out. Even just a primitive saddle on both gives a nice damage reduction. Higher health pool Dino’s necessary (imho).

Taming is definitely more of an effort than before due to damage reduction and subsequent effect on torpor. The environmental hazards kicking off mid tame add to this. Basilosaurus is a great game early and late game. It’s also a passive tame and they don’t have the mantas like elsewhere (interesting right?).

Nobody has touched on this yet but I think the real big benefit with X Dino and Genesis is their tendency to come at much higher levels than other WC maps. e.g. I tamed 6 150 Basilo, three 140+ Mosa and two 150 Allo in first three days. It would’ve been weeks if not months to find those on most maps. The dino seem to roll weighted to 135 with many being higher. Agree it’s a shame that in the end the main difference of the Dino is the skin.

 

[merandoo]

x-parasaur is broken

This expansion  needs serious balancing

I just tried to tame a LEVEL 4 x-parasaur

30 tranc crossbow bolts and 400 slingshot stones later I gave up

IT WAS LEVEL 4

 

[Kayvoss]

If I remember correctly, All X creatures take 40% less torpor than normal creatures. So it'll take more to knock one out. Also projectiles tend to de-sync when hitting a fast moving target, especially with a slingshot.