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Tired of World Save lag.


Jemcrystal

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Tired of World Save lag.

Plz change the official world save to once every two hours instead of every 15 minutes.  We are frozen during these saves completely unable to move.  It wears down on your nerves.  Backhands immersion.  Most people's response to this is "go play unofficial then."  And the argument is backwards.  

Why are we saving the world every 15 minutes?  Because we are afraid to loose progress.  But it is the greater evil.  You would argue if I don't like so many freezes then go play unofficial.  How about stop saving the world and then argue if you are afraid to loose your progress go play unofficial.

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Progress is something. But with the frequency the servers crash and the rollbacks after each update, with 2h saves, imagine how many lost characters there will be after a transfer. If you would transfer after that 2h save and the server crashes/restarts in the next 2h, bye bye character. And since de devs will not implement for whatever reason fail safes to recover your original character, this will never be implemented.

 

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2 hours ago, Jemcrystal said:

Tired of World Save lag.

Plz change the official world save to once every two hours instead of every 15 minutes.  We are frozen during these saves completely unable to move.  It wears down on your nerves.  Backhands immersion.  Most people's response to this is "go play unofficial then."  And the argument is backwards.  

Why are we saving the world every 15 minutes?  Because we are afraid to loose progress.  But it is the greater evil.  You would argue if I don't like so many freezes then go play unofficial.  How about stop saving the world and then argue if you are afraid to loose your progress go play unofficial.

Can blame that server save time on the huge mega bases and thousands of pillars every where. No matter if its unofficial or official. All of that stuff needs to be saved.

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I appreciate the server save lag. First of all I know for sure it is saving and second of all it can help me know where I will be if the server crashes and rolls back. Be glad it isn't de-synching (at least I think that's what was happening). If you think server save is bad that would drive you to drink I am sure. You can't dismount or attack or anything but stuff can see and attack and damage you. I almost lost a good wyvern to a like level 20 rex all because I couldnt fly away or kill it or even run away. As a last resort I logged off without dismounting  (it forced me to dismount) in hopes that it allowed my wyvern to fight back. 

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10 hours ago, Jemcrystal said:

Tired of World Save lag.

Plz change the official world save to once every two hours instead of every 15 minutes.  We are frozen during these saves completely unable to move.  It wears down on your nerves.  Backhands immersion.  Most people's response to this is "go play unofficial then."  And the argument is backwards.  

Why are we saving the world every 15 minutes?  Because we are afraid to loose progress.  But it is the greater evil.  You would argue if I don't like so many freezes then go play unofficial.  How about stop saving the world and then argue if you are afraid to loose your progress go play unofficial.

Then players would need to sit 2 hours in front of an obelisk/transmitter to upload their stuff. And you would be the first to make a thread complaining about that too.

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2 hours ago, Cowgirl said:

I appreciate the server save lag. First of all I know for sure it is saving and second of all it can help me know where I will be if the server crashes and rolls back. Be glad it isn't de-synching (at least I think that's what was happening). If you think server save is bad that would drive you to drink I am sure. You can't dismount or attack or anything but stuff can see and attack and damage you. I almost lost a good wyvern to a like level 20 rex all because I couldnt fly away or kill it or even run away. As a last resort I logged off without dismounting  (it forced me to dismount) in hopes that it allowed my wyvern to fight back. 

Ummm.. how can you know when it isn't desynching? Is there some method? I see stuff stop fighting back or am unable to harvest a corpses, or fish fly in the air, etc., and I just dismount. And now that is happening every 15min and I'm jumping off for nothing, all the time, but occasionally it actually desynchronizes, so I feel like I cant become complacent or I'll loose a wyvern/ giga, etc.

59 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

Then players would need to sit 2 hours in front of an obelisk/transmitter to upload their stuff. And you would be the first to make a thread complaining about that too.

You're saying the only solution to the duping is saving the entire server every 15 min? That just isn't correct. How about dynamic saving where an algorithm is run as someone trys to access the terminal and that portion of the server is queued up as a partial save? How about unique item id's and latent item history meta data that is sent along with the character from server to server such that algorithms checking against dupers realize that a item transferred from x inventory etc etc somewhere along the line became two items, and it just deletes one of them? Make the servers talk to each in a more intelligent way, with small amounts of data, instead of muttering uselessly to themselves with all the data, and to no effect. In short solve the actual problem instead of creating new ones!

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15 hours ago, Jemcrystal said:

Tired of World Save lag.

Plz change the official world save to once every two hours instead of every 15 minutes.  We are frozen during these saves completely unable to move.  It wears down on your nerves.  Backhands immersion.  Most people's response to this is "go play unofficial then."  And the argument is backwards.  

Why are we saving the world every 15 minutes?  Because we are afraid to loose progress.  But it is the greater evil.  You would argue if I don't like so many freezes then go play unofficial.  How about stop saving the world and then argue if you are afraid to loose your progress go play unofficial.

Wow. Someone here apparently never experienced a server crash and never had to use the transfer system. *facepalm*

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13 hours ago, sjskdjkfa said:

Ummm.. how can you know when it isn't desynching? Is there some method? I see stuff stop fighting back or am unable to harvest a corpses, or fish fly in the air, etc., and I just dismount. And now that is happening every 15min and I'm jumping off for nothing, all the time, but occasionally it actually desynchronizes, so I feel like I cant become complacent or I'll loose a wyvern/ giga, etc.

You're saying the only solution to the duping is saving the entire server every 15 min? That just isn't correct. How about dynamic saving where an algorithm is run as someone trys to access the terminal and that portion of the server is queued up as a partial save? How about unique item id's and latent item history meta data that is sent along with the character from server to server such that algorithms checking against dupers realize that a item transferred from x inventory etc etc somewhere along the line became two items, and it just deletes one of them? Make the servers talk to each in a more intelligent way, with small amounts of data, instead of muttering uselessly to themselves with all the data, and to no effect. In short solve the actual problem instead of creating new ones!

Server saves are for players to keep their stuff in the event of a server crash and has nothing to do with duping.

I understand you clearly don't like duping and think you can build the game better than WC but how about you muster what little brain power you have and post relating to the OP rather than spouting unrelated nonsense.

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15 hours ago, sjskdjkfa said:

Ummm.. how can you know when it isn't desynching? Is there some method? I see stuff stop fighting back or am unable to harvest a corpses, or fish fly in the air, etc., and I just dismount. And now that is happening every 15min and I'm jumping off for nothing, all the time, but occasionally it actually desynchronizes, so I feel like I cant become complacent or I'll loose a wyvern/ giga, etc.

When a server save happens you cant attack or anything but everything else also stops (or just keeps moving but it can't attack or anything either) when the desynch happened YOU alone could not attack or dismount or ANYTHING other than move around, you couldnt get into inventories or open doors or anything, literally the only thing you could do was move around. BUT the wilds were still able to see you and attack you and you could not fight back or even really run because for every 3 steps you take you get thrown back 2 steps, at least. 

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23 hours ago, FreelancerKnux said:

Server saves are for players to keep their stuff in the event of a server crash and has nothing to do with duping.

I understand you clearly don't like duping and think you can build the game better than WC but how about you muster what little brain power you have and post relating to the OP rather than spouting unrelated nonsense.

These increased server saves are happening right before the transfer timer. Right when dupers need to freak out the server. At the very least they timed the server saves to happen right before the transfer timer to throw one more impediment at the dupers. Whether they are also using that save data to compare items idk, and sorry for the weird conspiratorial rant about it.

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I'm not really sure there's a workaround for this other than WC adding even more micro-save optimizations. Go back a few years before they made a lot of optimizations and all the maps were like Ragnarok with ridiculously long save times. Part of the problem is server load as well, which is probably exacerbated by a lack of CPU time being devoted to official servers when they are overloaded with players. Get a few dozen people or more with hundreds of dinos and structures each, and you're going to be waiting even longer. 

I'm only speculating here, but I imagine the official servers are freebies that Nitrado and other server hosts provide to Wildcard in exchange for giving exclusive hosting to them for unofficial servers. The bread and butter for server hosting is in the unofficial servers, and therefore official servers are probably going to get the lowest priority for CPU time. I could be completely wrong, but by deduction this seems to be the most likely scenario in my mind. 

The only way to avoid the long freezes on official is to play on a quiet server, and to avoid playing on Rag (as Rag map never received the micro-save optimizations that the other maps enjoy). But to be honest the micro-saves are annoying AF at times as well, but they're still better than waiting for a full minute like it was years ago for every map. It's bad now during busy times, but it used to be so much worse.

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:58 PM, Jemcrystal said:

Tired of World Save lag.

Plz change the official world save to once every two hours instead of every 15 minutes.  We are frozen during these saves completely unable to move.  It wears down on your nerves.  Backhands immersion.  Most people's response to this is "go play unofficial then."  And the argument is backwards.  

Why are we saving the world every 15 minutes?  Because we are afraid to loose progress.  But it is the greater evil.  You would argue if I don't like so many freezes then go play unofficial.  How about stop saving the world and then argue if you are afraid to loose your progress go play unofficial.

  • you may be frozen but so is everything else so you are less likely to die
  • I agree lag can be bad on your nerves but the official servers run so poorly because the game wasn't planned to be as populated as it is.
  • I don't know what backhands immersion means.
  • the response is "go play unofficial" because it's the only way to alleviate traffic on overloaded official servers, this game is not a "game as a service" style mmorpg.
  • Yes because rollbacks are terrible and make the game less playable than being frozen every 15 minutes. it is not a greater evil
  • Why are you making people's arguments for them in the very first post.
  • I don't under stand the last sentence no matter where i place commas.
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I'm sure there could have been way better ways to handle the server saves. Is it not possible to constantly save like in other games? 

How have way, way older games/mmos handled to constantly have their servers save without the huge freeze every 15 minutes? 

ARK would be one of the greatest games if the lags and server saves were gone. Just calculate it up, we have 35-45 sec server saves each 15 mins on ragna and 50+ seconds on island. While playing this game is already a ''waste'' of lifetime, the server saves make it so much more miserable.

There is no way that there isn't a better way to handle this issue, how does Rust or Conan Exiles do it? I have never seen a 40+ sec long freeze which appears every 15 minutes in any Rust stream.

Also the game doesn't freeze everything, you get f***** if want to land on the ground, the game will make you hit the ground as if you fell down from the top of the map. 

Mana related issues have gotten better but I still vanished from Scorched Earth on a Mana because the game doesn't seem to stop your jump if you hit it shortly or right into the server save. One time pressing the jump button and you will get boosted so far into the air that you will land outside the map, gladly you can't hit the roof on extinction and just got pumped into the air half the highest towers height. 

I don't want to speak about the other issues the server saves brings because there are just too many and nothing positive besides ''uploading'' and ''saving'' your character which I believe could be handled in another way.

It could already help a little if we would get a 30 sec warning before a server save...

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On 1/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, Cowgirl said:

BUT the wilds were still able to see you and attack you and you could not fight back

This is incorrect. While players seem to be able to move around, wilds are not able to attack. Everything except client-side animations are "paused" during server saves. From what I can see, the server saves act like "playersonly" (a console command I've played with in Singleplayer)

What I would like to happen is for my actions, especially landing, were NOT registered actions during the pause.
One time on Official, I was flying with my Wyvern, I go to land, and then I notice the server is saving (noticed because my tame did not land). While the server detects my land action, it doesn't put me where I was landing.... I almost lost a Wyvern from fall damage! The instant a server save was finished, suddenly my Wyvern lost 90% of it's HP from fall damage. I found myself below the cliff I intended to land on. It was a pretty hefty fall. I had less than 700 HP left. I had to fly back to base because of my needs at the time were needing him to have full HP. It was so close to death, that was not a fun day.


imo, saves this frequent are a necessary evil. I wish there was some interface visual letting me know when it is happening, so I wont try to land.

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47 minutes ago, Fukushu said:

How have way, way older games/mmos handled to constantly have their servers save without the huge freeze every 15 minutes?

No other games have that much stuff going on.

47 minutes ago, Fukushu said:

ARK would be one of the greatest games if the lags and server saves were gone. Just calculate it up, we have 35-45 sec server saves each 15 mins on ragna and 50+ seconds on island. While playing this game is already a ''waste'' of lifetime, the server saves make it so much more miserable.

That is really only the case on PvE. I've never experienced saves as long on PvP than I did on PvE. A few seconds at most on the highest populated ones but never as bas as PvE. And the reason is quite obvious; there is no natural cycle on PvE. Once you reach level 24, you are pretty much dominating the game already.

This is not the first time I says it; as long as the E is not more punishing performance on PvE won't improve. If you think that is not accurate, just ask yourself the following question; when was the last time you legitimately lost tames or bases to the environment that were not the result of a bug/grief? Exactly.

Currently PvE is a hoarder mode of farmville, where players just amass hundreds of tames they never uses, build massive bases they fill with those tames because hey, they have pretty colors, etc. Just fly around on any PvE servers and you see massive bases with dozens and sometimes hundreds of tames such as Wyverns that can't even be justified as being bred for mutations.

Now that cryopods are available on all maps, the tame limit should be reduced.

With the tame limit reduced, the amount of structures in range should be lowered (no need massive bases if you don't have ton of tames to house).

Remove the need to have hundreds of tames out for breeding purposes by adding new game mechanic. E.g. as I suggested into another thread:

On 4/28/2019 at 11:24 AM, invincibleqc said:

Although I believe the capping issue has been mainly resolved with the cryopods and the kibbles rework, if somehow this is still an actual issue on some PvE servers, then the next steps forward would be to find a solution for mass breeding. If we evaluate the current need of having a lot of creatures, the main thing comes to: breeding. What about some sort of Tek Breeding Machine that allow you to upload the DNA of a single male, the DNA of multiple females, some empty frozen embryo pods that would get filled with a baby that you could throw and raise at your convenience? I'm sure something like that would reduce the tames across all PvE servers by at least 50% and would probably improve the terrible lags they are currently suffering. Once something like that is introduced, reduce tame limit and possibly server limit as this is clear they cannot endure 10,500 creatures.

Only then the save time may improves, but until then, it will just get even worst as long as players continue to hoard and build. Even players that no longer actively plays still reset their bases for the most part. And for the remaining players, they will just bring back even more pretty colored stuff from Genesis to other maps affecting their performance even more as well.

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2 hours ago, GreenRoc said:

This is incorrect. While players seem to be able to move around, wilds are not able to attack. Everything except client-side animations are "paused" during server saves. From what I can see, the server saves act like "playersonly" (a console command I've played with in Singleplayer)

What I would like to happen is for my actions, especially landing, were NOT registered actions during the pause.
One time on Official, I was flying with my Wyvern, I go to land, and then I notice the server is saving (noticed because my tame did not land). While the server detects my land action, it doesn't put me where I was landing.... I almost lost a Wyvern from fall damage! The instant a server save was finished, suddenly my Wyvern lost 90% of it's HP from fall damage. I found myself below the cliff I intended to land on. It was a pretty hefty fall. I had less than 700 HP left. I had to fly back to base because of my needs at the time were needing him to have full HP. It was so close to death, that was not a fun day.


imo, saves this frequent are a necessary evil. I wish there was some interface visual letting me know when it is happening, so I wont try to land.

No, when I said the wilds could see and attack I was referring to what I believe was desynche, it happened for a couple months about 2 years ago, it was really bad. 

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There should be a freeze state for dinos, no wiggling around, no tail movements and nothing, like the ''No ally looking'' option. 

Maybe such an option could help the servers/players? I couldn't care less about the ''immersion'' in this game if PVE would become more play- and enjoyable.

 

@invincibleqcMost players are playing on PVE servers as Cedric once stated, solutions which could help everyone would still be the best option but the majority on PVE is suffering from lags.

Someone suggest once a resource drain for bases like in Rust. The bigger your base is, the more resources you would have to fill into some kind of structure to hold everything else together. Also a flag like in Atlas could help but give tribes only a very limited amount of flags. 

The thing with dinos is an issue because people can just have 2+ accounts and ally with their own tribe to exceed any dino limit. I have talked to a guy that had 3 allys which were all his and his tribemates with 1200+ dinos outside for breeding purposes and since they aren't breeding small ''easy tame'' dinos this wouldn't be against the rules.

Some other guy told me that he has 400+ deinos autside all the time because the eggs lay there for 7 days, so he always has endless amounts of eggs for kibbles...

You can also exceed the dino limit with cryopods I believe. (not sure if this was fixed but it was possible in the beginning)

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  • 6 months later...
On 1/19/2020 at 1:58 PM, Jemcrystal said:

Tired of World Save lag.

Plz change the official world save to once every two hours instead of every 15 minutes.  We are frozen during these saves completely unable to move.  It wears down on your nerves.  Backhands immersion.  Most people's response to this is "go play unofficial then."  And the argument is backwards.  

Why are we saving the world every 15 minutes?  Because we are afraid to loose progress.  But it is the greater evil.  You would argue if I don't like so many freezes then go play unofficial.  How about stop saving the world and then argue if you are afraid to loose your progress go play unofficial.

Yeah it's still a huge problem, especially on pvp servers. That 4 to 5 second rubberbanding every single time the 15 min. world save completes is just awful. They clearly gave up on most major problems, how they can't fix the huge lag every world save is baffling.....

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  • 7 months later...

Hi all.

I just want anyone to make me understand one thing.

Ive got 2.5k + Hrs in this game and after so many years you would expect the Devs. to have a lot of experience and to afford to ask us for 55 Euro for this damn game....but......after all of this....well this game still sucks when u think about the damn lagg, disconnects and the freaking building system which Devs doest care to much to make it better.

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I think too 15 min is too often. Even if there would be more often a rollback as now I would say that.

How much time/progress lose I because of rollbacks? Not much.

How much time lose I because of 15 min save interval? A lot.

I think an interval of 1 hour would be fine. Up and then I would lose 1 hour progress, that's better than this break every 15 min.

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:58 PM, Jemcrystal said:

Because we are afraid to loose progress.  But it is the greater evil.

I disagree.

You are certainly entitled to your personal preferences, maybe to you save lag is worse than losing up to 2 hours progress in case of a server crash. You're allowed to vote for what you think is more important, just like everyone else is. But simply put, I disagree, for my vote losing progress is the greater evil.

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