Breeding Mutation - Need Expert Breeder

[Momudd]

Breeding Mutation - Need Expert Breeder

I have been breeding and cross breeding for a while now. I don't know it all by far but want to see if someone with some good knowledge can explain a mutation that I thought was impossible

Situation - Babies mutations -330275532/20  And 1948767872/20 with stats being 81 64 0 4 134 86

Sire Mutations 171499786/20 And 1777268086 with stats being 79 64 2 4 134 86

Dam mutation -2079023124/20 and 1748747591/20 Stats being 77 64 0 4 134 84

 

Anyone care to chime in on exactly how this Argie got a Health mutation when both parent were mutated out the wazoo? would it have to do with the Female have a negative mutation count?

 

[GrumpyBear]

You are over the counters # limit.  Field that holds the value can only hold a number so large, soon as it goes over, weird stuff happens..

[Momudd]

yeah..weird stuff happens, but...mutations? that why we breed non mutated or low mutated dinos to dinos with mutations, to keep them going. I woulder if that would open another avenue for getting mutations

 

[GrumpyBear]

Well if the # registers as a negative #, then it's below 0. Any # under 20 can mutate, even -1.

The method is known and used by people who breed alot.

[Momudd]

ok so im looking at my fem..and I did find on..one with negative mut son both sides...so would this basically count as a 0/20 0/20?

 

[GrumpyBear]

yes.  I think it’s also possible to get them to actually look 0/20 0/20 ,  but I think you have to find the exact right #s to add up and get you there.

 

 

[TheDonn]

6 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

yes.  I think it’s also possible to get them to actually look 0/20 0/20 ,  but I think you have to find the exact right #s to add up and get you there.

 

6 hours ago, Momudd said:

yeah..weird stuff happens, but...mutations? that why we breed non mutated or low mutated dinos to dinos with mutations, to keep them going. I woulder if that would open another avenue for getting mutations

 

My theory is that figures in UE4 evidently can "reset" themselves.  I've seen some really high level blueprints on unofficial, specifically for Mosasaur Platform Saddles (which have insane material requirements) and they seem to reset the ingot cost when they pass 75,000 ingots back to the base value.

Meaning, I've seen a 135 armor mosa platform BP that needs 58,000 ingots to craft, and then a 179 armor mosa platform BP that takes 3500 ingots to craft, both ascendant.  It's only the ingots, because it seems the other materials scale up forever, but the ingots specifically do this weird resetting thing!  I was baffled by this for the longest time but now my strong theory is that sort of off what Grumpy said, they go past a max value, input a negative or some kind of null/out of bounds value, and reset to 0 (or whatever baseline amount exists).  I mean, creatures are coded as a blueprint and vary based on RNG.  Maybe it is the same as the saddles?

[GrumpyBear]

Quite possible , coders will usually try to use data fields that fit the expected data without being oversized as that can take more processing power away from other important things.  If they felt the whole # they are working with would always be under some limit, they would chose to use a storage field that wouldn’t be oversized to the expected values.

[Luewen]

On 1/18/2020 at 7:27 PM, GrumpyBear said:

yes.  I think it’s also possible to get them to actually look 0/20 0/20 ,  but I think you have to find the exact right #s to add up and get you there.

 

 

It is possible to reach that. Its just totally lucky. As breeding -1 with 1 does not give you 0. There is more behind the calculations.

[GrumpyBear]

I would think if you can get -1, then mate w/ a clean partner and get a mutation based on the -1 side , should turn it 0. But I really have no idea, and this really does then fall into an exploit category on official servers the more you deliberately try for it.

Personally, I think they could cut down the breeding farms which force the super large bases, which in turn both of which add to the server saves increased processing times.  Implement a tek structure for mutating.  Many ways to do it, but they could find a way to balance how fast we'd be able to upgrade our stuff w/ it , and compare that to how fast we can mutate stuff as it is.

They could make that work, I'm sure of it.  The kibble rework, simply made more room available for large breeding farms of singular animals, and didn't kill all the giant castles that people built for them.  A tek mutation station would solve that.

And they could erase that stupid 20 cap per side, since we already have a limit on how many points can even go into a stat in the first place.   

AND at the very least -make the cap 50 if there just has to be a cap, that would wipe out most any need to try to roll the counters. 

 

 

[whoareyou]

You bet -1 mutation breeding is a thing. But it takes around 40+ generations to get there. Heres how it's done. 

Find dinos with 1 mutation. Breed them together, you get dinos with 2 mutations. Breed the 2s together and you get 4s . . . repeat 31 times. Your final generation should have a mutation count of 2147483648. Breed generation 31 with generation 26 and 27. The resulting dino will have a mutation count of -1,744,830,464. We call this the N-negative dino. You'll want a bunch of females with the N-negative mutation count. 

You also need a dino with 1,744,830,463 mutations. Find your best male breeder with all the stats and check its mutation count. Subtract the mutation count of your best male from 1,744,830,463 to tell you what mutation count you need to breed. Use dinos from your previous 0-31 generations to make up this number. Now breed with your male to get all the good stats over to a male dino with mutation count of 1,744,830,463. We call this the N-positive male. 

Breed your n-positive male with your n-negative females until you get babies with all the stats and mutation count of -1. 

Breed your -1 females with a clean male. Eventually you will get a mutation on a male with all the stats, so you will have a clean male with all the stats. From there you can get mutations indefinitely and never have to worry about combining stats again. 

I don't think it's an exploit. It's a HUGE amount of work and most people don't think it's worth it. If you are putting in the work to do this then you should be rewarded with good dinos in my opinion. 

[Momudd]

On 1/19/2020 at 6:10 PM, whoareyou said:

You bet -1 mutation breeding is a thing. But it takes around 40+ generations to get there. Heres how it's done. 

Find dinos with 1 mutation. Breed them together, you get dinos with 2 mutations. Breed the 2s together and you get 4s . . . repeat 31 times. Your final generation should have a mutation count of 2147483648. Breed generation 31 with generation 26 and 27. The resulting dino will have a mutation count of -1,744,830,464. We call this the N-negative dino. You'll want a bunch of females with the N-negative mutation count. 

You also need a dino with 1,744,830,463 mutations. Find your best male breeder with all the stats and check its mutation count. Subtract the mutation count of your best male from 1,744,830,463 to tell you what mutation count you need to breed. Use dinos from your previous 0-31 generations to make up this number. Now breed with your male to get all the good stats over to a male dino with mutation count of 1,744,830,463. We call this the N-positive male. 

Breed your n-positive male with your n-negative females until you get babies with all the stats and mutation count of -1. 

Breed your -1 females with a clean male. Eventually you will get a mutation on a male with all the stats, so you will have a clean male with all the stats. From there you can get mutations indefinitely and never have to worry about combining stats again. 

I don't think it's an exploit. It's a HUGE amount of work and most people don't think it's worth it. If you are putting in the work to do this then you should be rewarded with good dinos in my opinion. 

That's quite a convoluted harem...even though quite a few of my argies do number in the Billions on the Negative side..Ive never really paid much attention to it because of the way I breed. Looks like I'm down to test some.

[whoareyou]

I've been talking about this quite a lot lately with my tribe and ark friends. If you are only looking to improve 1 stat (like HP on turtles, or melee on gigas), then it's just as fast to have clean ( 0/0 mutation) females and a male with a negative mutation count. This is a lot easier to maintain and work with than -1 muta females. If you want to get mutations fast then the only way to do it is to have 200+ females (either negative muta or clean).

However if you want to improve multiple stats like HP/stam/melee together, it's faster to use -1 breeding and you can also get away with a smaller harem. Maybe 75 females would be enough for improving 3 stats with -1 females.

[Zahlea]

On 1/20/2020 at 1:10 AM, whoareyou said:

Find dinos with 1 mutation. Breed them together, you get dinos with 2 mutations. Breed the 2s together and you get 4s . . . repeat 31 times. Your final generation should have a mutation count of 2147483648. Breed generation 31 with generation 26 and 27. The resulting dino will have a mutation count of -1,744,830,464. We call this the N-negative dino. You'll want a bunch of females with the N-negative mutation count. 

[...]

I don't think it's an exploit. It's a HUGE amount of work and most people don't think it's worth it. If you are putting in the work to do this then you should be rewarded with good dinos in my opinion. 

Are you sure this number is not missing a negative sign? Because the way memory works in programming, the maximum number should be 2147483647 and if you add 1 you get to -2147483648.

An exploit is, afaik, "unintended use of game mechanics". Since a negative amount of mutations doesn't make sense, it's most definitely unintended. However, because it takes so much work, they might have decided to not enforce it. But I would say it's without a doubt an unintended game mechanic!

[Luewen]

On 1/20/2020 at 2:10 AM, whoareyou said:

You bet -1 mutation breeding is a thing. But it takes around 40+ generations to get there. Heres how it's done. 

Find dinos with 1 mutation. Breed them together, you get dinos with 2 mutations. Breed the 2s together and you get 4s . . . repeat 31 times. Your final generation should have a mutation count of 2147483648. Breed generation 31 with generation 26 and 27. The resulting dino will have a mutation count of -1,744,830,464. We call this the N-negative dino. You'll want a bunch of females with the N-negative mutation count. 

You also need a dino with 1,744,830,463 mutations. Find your best male breeder with all the stats and check its mutation count. Subtract the mutation count of your best male from 1,744,830,463 to tell you what mutation count you need to breed. Use dinos from your previous 0-31 generations to make up this number. Now breed with your male to get all the good stats over to a male dino with mutation count of 1,744,830,463. We call this the N-positive male. 

Breed your n-positive male with your n-negative females until you get babies with all the stats and mutation count of -1. 

Breed your -1 females with a clean male. Eventually you will get a mutation on a male with all the stats, so you will have a clean male with all the stats. From there you can get mutations indefinitely and never have to worry about combining stats again. 

I don't think it's an exploit. It's a HUGE amount of work and most people don't think it's worth it. If you are putting in the work to do this then you should be rewarded with good dinos in my opinion. 

Except depending on the mutation counter number it can turn back to positive. Depends on last integer number.

[whoareyou]

4 hours ago, Zahlea said:

Are you sure this number is not missing a negative sign? Because the way memory works in programming, the maximum number should be 2147483647 and if you add 1 you get to -2147483648.

An exploit is, afaik, "unintended use of game mechanics". Since a negative amount of mutations doesn't make sense, it's most definitely unintended. However, because it takes so much work, they might have decided to not enforce it. But I would say it's without a doubt an unintended game mechanic!

Ah yes you are right. The mistake was you only need to breed with the 30th generation which is 1073741824 mutations. So you breed 2^30 + 2^27 + 2^26 together to form -1,744,830,464.