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Hmm sharks?

Hmm in the picture of the new water boss on genesis I see a shark...now why do you think a mosa\tuso wasn't in the picture ??? Here's my theory. ..sharks least breed  water tame right?? Well ya xD so what if sharks are needed to defeat him?well smart move on wc part lol hook line and sinker...fresh bloodlines will be needed .mosa\tuso are mutated to hell and back right? So why wouldn't wc chose the shark for a boss battle xD fresh bloodlines mean more time on game breeding and more time on game is numbers...and do mosa\tuso weight to much  to enter the arena!! What's your opinion. ..

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I thought it was because tusos and mosas are big and they wanted all attention on the moeder and not the player's mount.
At this point we don't know enough about the new map to say anything for sure, but...

I expect that the shark will have its own use against the boss anyway though. We know that the baby eels shoot projectiles and good luck dodging projectiles from a bunch of different enemies at once with a mosa or tuso. It could be done with the shark I think, but not with easily if at all with the bigger dinos. And if the moeder eels are anything like the eels that exist now, then dodging them will be pretty important. Sharks are lacking in health and damage, but if you can dodge and shoot with the tek saddle, then those two stats which are usually the deciding factor for boss fights becomes less relevant.
Also they said that the fight will include 'lots of flashing lights' which makes me think we'll have more than just minions to dodge, and that this fight will be different from just the usual brute force combat methods, which would mean that dodging and tactics would be more important than in a normal fight.

Depending on the depth level, I also expect that basilos might get used by players despite their low speed due to their stun immunity and high health.

And I also expect that the baryonyx will at least be tried as a counter for the minions
>inb4 the stun affects the moeder itself

What I'm really interested in is how people will breed up mutated oxygen stat gigas, rexes, and yutys and then get them down there.
Real survivors will just bring in 19 rexes and a yuty on turtleback

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2 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

I thought it was because tusos and mosas are big and they wanted all attention on the moeder and not the player's mount.
At this point we don't know enough about the new map to say anything for sure, but...

I expect that the shark will have its own use against the boss anyway though. We know that the baby eels shoot projectiles and good luck dodging projectiles from a bunch of different enemies at once with a mosa or tuso. It could be done with the shark I think, but not with easily if at all with the bigger dinos. And if the moeder eels are anything like the eels that exist now, then dodging them will be pretty important. Sharks are lacking in health and damage, but if you can dodge and shoot with the tek saddle, then those two stats which are usually the deciding factor for boss fights becomes less relevant.
Also they said that the fight will include 'lots of flashing lights' which makes me think we'll have more than just minions to dodge, and that this fight will be different from just the usual brute force combat methods, which would mean that dodging and tactics would be more important than in a normal fight.

Depending on the depth level, I also expect that basilos might get used by players despite their low speed due to their stun immunity and high health.

And I also expect that the baryonyx will at least be tried as a counter for the minions
>inb4 the stun affects the moeder itself

What I'm really interested in is how people will breed up mutated oxygen stat gigas, rexes, and yutys and then get them down there.
Real survivors will just bring in 19 rexes and a yuty on turtleback

Haha good point. But I will start a shark line until more info is available .only if I could get some of my old shark lines lol .which I may be able to luckily a few buds still on legacy maybe have some old sharks of mine.

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As mentioned, we don't really know very much. However, I have read from a few different sources that this will not be one of the standard ultimate life-forms that require activation at an obelisk. It is more like the Lava Boss and Ice Queen on Ragnaraok. It could very well be that you will be able to use whatever you want to use to fight it, and when it comes to Tusos tactics are usually not that relevant, they are pure power. As for 19 Rex and a yuty or Oxygen bred gigas, that would probably never be viable. Not only would it be a huge waste of time, but this boss is more than likely only possible with standard ocean gear and tames.

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1 hour ago, Lycan187u said:

Haha good point. But I will start a shark line until more info is available .only if I could get some of my old shark lines lol .which I may be able to luckily a few buds still on legacy maybe have some old sharks of mine.

It might not be worth starting a shark line now, since we're getting awfully close (in my hopes and dreams) to the release of genesis.
Even if it gets delayed further and doesn't launch until late february, it's still probably less time than there will be between the launch and when transfers are enabled, so you'd be better off starting a new line on the genesis map once it's out. Unless you have some really killer shark stats already that just aren't mixed properly yet.

1 hour ago, VeeTea said:

I hope sharks are a popular tame on genesis!

I agree >.<

I like sharks, and want to see them get some appreciation. On the island, element was too troublesome to get for the saddle and the ocean wasn't important enough to bother throwing element into it until you had spare stuff to waste.
On a map with a stronger emphasis on water though, the shark may see some more use due to its (comparably) decent turn rate and an acceptable speed + a tek saddle available.

4 minutes ago, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

As mentioned, we don't really know very much. However, I have read from a few different sources that this will not be one of the standard ultimate life-forms that require activation at an obelisk. It is more like the Lava Boss and Ice Queen on Ragnaraok. It could very well be that you will be able to use whatever you want to use to fight it, and when it comes to Tusos tactics are usually not that relevant, they are pure power. As for 19 Rex and a yuty or Oxygen bred gigas, that would probably never be viable. Not only would it be a huge waste of time, but this boss is more than likely only possible with standard ocean gear and tames.

>As mentioned, we don't really know very much. However, I have read from a few different sources that this will not be one of the standard ultimate life-forms that require activation at an obelisk. It is more like the Lava Boss and Ice Queen on Ragnaraok. It could very well be that you will be able to use whatever you want to use to fight it,
Correction: We can use anything we want that we can fit in. It's a miniboss, so yes, it's an 'open world' boss but the during the ExtraLife stream when they announced it they also said you had to go through tunnels to get to it. Since we have no idea how big the tunnels are, we have no idea what can fit through and therefore would or wouldn't be able to fight the Moeder.

>It could very well be that you will be able to use whatever you want to use to fight it, and when it comes to Tusos tactics are usually not that relevant, they are pure power.
Yes, but if they do something similar to how they did Rockwell (can't hurt the boss until you do other things first) then the squid might not be viable (assuming it fits in the first place.)
Keep in mind that they said they would put more focus into the pve this time, so it's reasonable to assume that the bosses will be more skill/tactics based than other brute force bosses like the broodmother.

>As for 19 Rex and a yuty or Oxygen bred gigas, that would probably never be viable. Not only would it be a huge waste of time, but this boss is more than likely only possible with standard ocean gear and tames.
Now you're just hating fun.
I will do this eventually after genesis is released, and I will come back here and post screenshots. I'm bookmarking this page and labelling it "post pictures of moeder vs 19 rexes." Just you wait.

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2 minutes ago, TinyHippo said:

Correction: We can use anything we want that we can fit in. It's a miniboss, so yes, it's an 'open world' boss but the during the ExtraLife stream when they announced it they also said you had to go through tunnels to get to it. Since we have no idea how big the tunnels are, we have no idea what can fit through and therefore would or wouldn't be able to fight the Moeder.

>It could very well be that you will be able to use whatever you want to use to fight it, and when it comes to Tusos tactics are usually not that relevant, they are pure power.
Yes, but if they do something similar to how they did Rockwell (can't hurt the boss until you do other things first) then the squid might not be viable (assuming it fits in the first place.)
Keep in mind that they said they would put more focus into the pve this time, so it's reasonable to assume that the bosses will be more skill/tactics based than other brute force bosses like the broodmother.

>As for 19 Rex and a yuty or Oxygen bred gigas, that would probably never be viable. Not only would it be a huge waste of time, but this boss is more than likely only possible with standard ocean gear and tames.
Now you're just hating fun.
I will do this eventually after genesis is released, and I will come back here and post screenshots. I'm bookmarking this page and labelling it "post pictures of moeder vs 19 rexes." Just you wait.

With cryoballs being craftable at any obelisk, with materials available on every map, it goes without saying that we can fit any dino anywhere we want. Tunnels are not relevant when discussing what we can use in a cavern large enough to fit a giant boss.

I do agree with you that getting to the boss, and mechanics of the boss, may require less up-front tactics. 

It fun to think of all the different things we could do, but speculation without doing some scouting is just us being hyped and tired of waiting really. :(

An if you want to defeat an underwater boss with Rexes, I will not sit here and tell you it is impossible. I will say good luck and I hope you don't have more important things that you are neglecting with such a time investment. At least turn it into some form of content.

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1 minute ago, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

It fun to think of all the different things we could do, but speculation without doing some scouting is just us being hyped and tired of waiting really. :(

Yup, that's why I'm here!

>With cryoballs being craftable at any obelisk, with materials available on every map, it goes without saying that we can fit any dino anywhere we want. Tunnels are not relevant when discussing what we can use in a cavern large enough to fit a giant boss.
Good point that I hadn't considered, but it's also possible that they disable cryopods in the arena.

>An if you want to defeat an underwater boss with Rexes, I will not sit here and tell you it is impossible. I will say good luck
That's all I needed to hear! This is my goal in Genesis now. The main boss is secondary.

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20 minutes ago, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

As mentioned, we don't really know very much. However, I have read from a few different sources that this will not be one of the standard ultimate life-forms that require activation at an obelisk. It is more like the Lava Boss and Ice Queen on Ragnaraok. It could very well be that you will be able to use whatever you want to use to fight it, and when it comes to Tusos tactics are usually not that relevant, they are pure power. As for 19 Rex and a yuty or Oxygen bred gigas, that would probably never be viable. Not only would it be a huge waste of time, but this boss is more than likely only possible with standard ocean gear and tames.

Use tuso\mosa ...rip xD eels would ruin your day....and why didn't wildcard showcase a mosa\tuso...???I mean they are the baddest tames of the sea ya?.this is why I believe the shark was showcased.

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8 hours ago, Lycan187u said:

Use tuso\mosa ...rip xD eels would ruin your day....and why didn't wildcard showcase a mosa\tuso...???I mean they are the baddest tames of the sea ya?.this is why I believe the shark was showcased.

Whenever they do a screenshot like that, there would typically be an "idea." In this "idea", they may simply be trying to show a survivor's first encounter with the giant underwater beast. Notice how there are no other survivors in the artwork. This could mean a lone survivor was exploring and stumbled upon this thing. Also as TinyHippo said, they are also trying to keep the image focused on the Boss itself. This is a simple concept art depicting the boss, without giving any hints as to how you would defeat the boss.

I also do not understand what you mean by eels would ruin our day. We aren't talking about Jellyfish that knock you off your tame. Eels only slow your tame now when shocking you, and aside from the slow you suffer, a squid or mosa will still easily be one shotting those eels. Correct me if I am wrong. Eels haven't posed any sort of threat in the water since they were first released because they removed the ability for them to knock you off of your tame and gave them a slowing effect instead.

Also of note, there isn't even any confirmation that our standard eels will be the ones within this encounter. They could easily be a unique creature, or worse, they could be the standard eels at extreme levels such as 300-500 such as some caves within the game. I think the argument that eels will cause problems for Mosa or Tuso is a self-defeating one in your case, as they are much more dangerous to sharks who rely on speed and agility. One zap and you are a sitting duck!

Edited by Ownz1nR34LT1M3
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3 minutes ago, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

I also do not understand what you mean by eels would ruin our day. We aren't talking about Jellyfish that knock you off your tame. Eels only slow your tame now when shocking you, and aside from the slow you suffer, a squid or mosa will still easily be one shotting those eels. Correct me if I am wrong. Eels haven't posed any sort of threat in the water since they were first released.

Also of note, there isn't even any confirmation that our standard eels will be the ones within this encounter. They could easily be a unique creature, or worse, they could be the standard eels at extreme levels such as 300-500 such as some caves within the game. I think the argument that eels will cause problems for Mosa or Tuso is a self-defeating one in your case, as they are much more dangerous to sharks who rely on speed and agility. One zap and you are a sitting duck!

Actually, we know that they aren't normal eels. The baby eel minions will shoot projectiles at you and help the Moeder, although that's the extent of our info. It's just assumed that they have similar slowing abilities.

Sharks are more fitting for this because since they're projectiles, they can probably hit the player riding the mount as well. If they come with a slow for hitting your mount, and then they aim for you directly, that's a recipe for a quick death.

But yea, it's important to note that these aren't normal eels, they shoot projectiles.

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10 minutes ago, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

Whenever they do a screenshot like that, there would typically be an "idea." In this "idea", they may simply be trying to show a survivor's first encounter with the giant underwater beast. Notice how there are no other survivors in the artwork. This could mean a lone survivor was exploring and stumbled upon this thing. Also as TinyHippo said, they are also trying to keep the image focused on the Boss itself. This is a simple concept art depicting the boss, without giving any hints as to how you would defeat the boss.

I also do not understand what you mean by eels would ruin our day. We aren't talking about Jellyfish that knock you off your tame. Eels only slow your tame now when shocking you, and aside from the slow you suffer, a squid or mosa will still easily be one shotting those eels. Correct me if I am wrong. Eels haven't posed any sort of threat in the water since they were first released.

Also of note, there isn't even any confirmation that our standard eels will be the ones within this encounter. They could easily be a unique creature, or worse, they could be the standard eels at extreme levels such as 300-500 such as some caves within the game. I think the argument that eels will cause problems for Mosa or Tuso is a self-defeating one in your case, as they are much more dangerous to sharks who rely on speed and agility. One zap and you are a sitting duck!

Lol ...lol tuso are squishy...hell 10 angler could kill a tuso..very easily  if pinned..and mosa bahaha same yes high dps..but turn radius is poop lol I have roughly 12k hours in ark lol I've killed many water tames and others tames ...just depends on the situation...hahaha few manta if stuck in a tuso head and can't reach ur being pooped on lolol

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4 minutes ago, Lycan187u said:

Lol ...lol tuso are squishy...hell 10 angler could kill a tuso..very easily  if pinned..and mosa bahaha same yes high dps..but turn radius is poop lol I have roughly 12k hours in ark lol I've killed many water tames and others tames ...just depends on the situation...hahaha few manta if stuck in a tuso head and can't reach ur being pooped on lolol

Maybe in PvP, in PvE they are great.

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2 hours ago, Lycan187u said:

Lol ...lol tuso are squishy...hell 10 angler could kill a tuso..very easily  if pinned..and mosa bahaha same yes high dps..but turn radius is poop lol I have roughly 12k hours in ark lol I've killed many water tames and others tames ...just depends on the situation...hahaha few manta if stuck in a tuso head and can't reach ur being pooped on lolol

 

1 hour ago, Lycan187u said:

My tuso born 31khp400melee would beg to differ... after imprint and Lil leveling 60k hp 700+ melee. And he has trouble killing manta at times xD

I will attempt to say what I am going to say without discrediting your 12k hours played.

Your Tuso are already well above average at 51 points in health and 60 into melee. With a 80+ armor saddle(you shouldn't be using less than 100 to be honest), a 100% imprint, and 60k HP as you stated after said imprint you will be receiving somewhere around 50 damage per bite, maybe up to 100 with mate boost from wild angler fish at high levels (not considering level 400+ from caves in this example) while doing upwards of 2000 or more per bite easily(this kind of damage should one or 2 shot entire packs of almost anything in the ocean). So this pack of 10 anglers you mention, and of course we could do this with any situation you could bring up, would be doing about 1000 damage per second as a group. Could be more, could be less, but we need some accurate approximation to run with. It would take these anglers an entire minute to kill this squid, assuming you do absolutely nothing and just sit there and let it die. I would hardly call that easy considering that your Tuso can kill those 10 anglers in less than 1 second as a comparison. 

 

I understand that mistakes get made, lag happens, surprises, etc...but don't discount how powerful a Tuso is due to user errors. Everytime someones Tuso dies to 10 anglers its not because they are squishy. its because you didn't do anything for an entire minute!

That's like saying Rock Elementals are squishy because they can be eaten by a Giga. You aren't supposed to let a Giga bite your Rock Elemental!

Also, those anglers probably wouldn't even be doing 1000 damage per second. They would probably hit for about 20-30 each even with mate boost if you had a proper saddle, which increases your life span to a whopping 4 minutes if you stand there and do nothing! Surviving for 1-4 minutes straight without heals or support is the definition of an amazing tank. I don't even understand how you claim this is "squishy."

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22 minutes ago, SuaveHyena said:

As with most dinos, breed and mutate them to make them good. It took me almost a year but my rexes can get 750k HP if I just max HP and ignore the other stats.

I think he was referring to official dinos with this one bud. Maybe you have 70k HP or a little more but 750k is a little outside what is practically possible.

Edited by Ownz1nR34LT1M3
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18 minutes ago, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

I think he was referring to official dinos with this one bud. Maybe you have 70k HP or a little more but 750k is a little outside what is practically possible.

 

Why would I PvE on official, lol?
I am always amazed people talk about Ark as if official or PvP are the baseline. Most people play unofficial and PvE.

 

In these instances, Tuso is very good.

Edited by SuaveHyena
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Well I was more referring to the official rules, and not the official servers. In this game it is balanced in a manner that having wild dinos that go above 150, with the exception of Drakes, creates large mathematical imbalances. Play the game however you would like, there is no judgement from me, but when we discuss the way the game works we need some standard to communicate from. We use the official settings as the baseline for such balance discussions.

Edited by Ownz1nR34LT1M3
Grammar
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3 hours ago, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

 

I will attempt to say what I am going to say without discrediting your 12k hours played.

Your Tuso are already well above average at 51 points in health and 60 into melee. With a 80+ armor saddle(you shouldn't be using less than 100 to be honest), a 100% imprint, and 60k HP as you stated after said imprint you will be receiving somewhere around 50 damage per bite, maybe up to 100 with mate boost from wild angler fish at high levels (not considering level 400+ from caves in this example) while doing upwards of 2000 or more per bite easily(this kind of damage should one or 2 shot entire packs of almost anything in the ocean). So this pack of 10 anglers you mention, and of course we could do this with any situation you could bring up, would be doing about 1000 damage per second as a group. Could be more, could be less, but we need some accurate approximation to run with. It would take these anglers an entire minute to kill this squid, assuming you do absolutely nothing and just sit there and let it die. I would hardly call that easy considering that your Tuso can kill those 10 anglers in less than 1 second as a comparison. 

 

I understand that mistakes get made, lag happens, surprises, etc...but don't discount how powerful a Tuso is due to user errors. Everytime someones Tuso dies to 10 anglers its not because they are squishy. its because you didn't do anything for an entire minute!

That's like saying Rock Elementals are squishy because they can be eaten by a Giga. You aren't supposed to let a Giga bite your Rock Elemental!

Also, those anglers probably wouldn't even be doing 1000 damage per second. They would probably hit for about 20-30 each even with mate boost if you had a proper saddle, which increases your life span to a whopping 4 minutes if you stand there and do nothing! Surviving for 1-4 minutes straight without heals or support is the definition of an amazing tank. I don't even understand how you claim this is "squishy."

Anglers was an example....and still squishy lol get swarmed by something and stuck in ur tuso head it's game over xD you can't turn very easily the way the tuso targets it wonky at best yes they're beast but have a major flaw when a larger/or even numerous small creatures are stuck in your head.u can't do poop lol

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On 1/18/2020 at 1:05 AM, Ownz1nR34LT1M3 said:

Well I was more referring to the official rules, and not the official servers. In this game it is balanced in a manner that having wild dinos that go above 150, with the exception of Drakes, creates large mathematical imbalances. Play the game however you would like, there is no judgement from me, but when we discuss the way the game works we need some standard to communicate from. We use the official settings as the baseline for such balance discussions.

My dinos are on official rates (x1 on all stats and 150 max on Ragnarok). They aren't even tek rexes. Just months of work of constantly breeding and doing nothing else.
The line was started from a 10k hp  tame which isn't even that rare. They have a few hundred mutations now.

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On 1/19/2020 at 6:02 AM, SuaveHyena said:

My dinos are on official rates (x1 on all stats and 150 max on Ragnarok). They aren't even tek rexes. Just months of work of constantly breeding and doing nothing else.
The line was started from a 10k hp  tame which isn't even that rare. They have a few hundred mutations now.

If you have 254 points in health (the max amount of points for any stat is 255) then a wild rex will have ~57000 hp.
Because it was tamed and bred we can add the bonuses of .2x and .44x.
If it was imprinted on 100% it gains an additional +20%
For purposes of the calculation, I'll assume that these bonuses stack multiplicatively instead of additively. This will make the end number higher than if it was additive. I', not 100% sure which one it is in reality.

So, 57,000 x 1.2 x 1.44 x 1.2 gives us almost 120,000 hp, far less than what you claim to have. This number would take an incredibly long time to achieve on official servers to due breeding times and anything above it becomes not only unreasonable but actually impossible to reach.

I'm not going to say you're lying, as that would imply you have malicious intent, but I'd guess you misunderstand a setting. The default, official stats are not 1x, which is what you say your stats are, the health and damage multipliers are actually much lower. If these stats multipliers are all at 1x, then your health values become possible, so I'll guess that that is where the difference is.

I won't say that you should change it, I think that everyone should play how they please, but those are not the default stats that the game is balanced around..

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4 hours ago, TinyHippo said:

If you have 254 points in health (the max amount of points for any stat is 255) then a wild rex will have ~57000 hp.
Because it was tamed and bred we can add the bonuses of .2x and .44x.
If it was imprinted on 100% it gains an additional +20%
For purposes of the calculation, I'll assume that these bonuses stack multiplicatively instead of additively. This will make the end number higher than if it was additive. I', not 100% sure which one it is in reality.

So, 57,000 x 1.2 x 1.44 x 1.2 gives us almost 120,000 hp, far less than what you claim to have. This number would take an incredibly long time to achieve on official servers to due breeding times and anything above it becomes not only unreasonable but actually impossible to reach.

I'm not going to say you're lying, as that would imply you have malicious intent, but I'd guess you misunderstand a setting. The default, official stats are not 1x, which is what you say your stats are, the health and damage multipliers are actually much lower. If these stats multipliers are all at 1x, then your health values become possible, so I'll guess that that is where the difference is.

I won't say that you should change it, I think that everyone should play how they please, but those are not the default stats that the game is balanced around..

Wow this was really good! Great analysis of the stat calculations!

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There are sharks in the picture for the same reason they used 10 people in Tek Suits with Tek Rifles to demonstrate how to tame the Ice Titan prior to Extinction release; wildcards vision of how to perform any given task is often very far from what the meta ends up becoming, but that's fine, figuring out the meta is one of the best parts of the game

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