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Manas Nerfed Hard With New Update

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9 hours ago, geneticbits said:

How long until we have manas added to classic flyers or their own mod? I know it will happen, just need patience.

Yeah, I just requested it on the Kraken's Better Dinos-mod. A must have for every PvE-player who hates these stupid nerfs! I'm 99% sure that WC won't do anything about it, just like the flyer nerf where Single Player-/Private Server-options were suggested as well and nothing happened at all... I'd feel bad if mods are the only reason most people keep playing my game, even if I try my best with frequently added content...

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1 hour ago, DomiDarko said:

Yeah, I just requested it on the Kraken's Better Dinos-mod. A must have for every PvE-player who hates these stupid nerfs! I'm 99% sure that WC won't do anything about it, just like the flyer nerf where Single Player-/Private Server-options were suggested as well and nothing happened at all... I'd feel bad if mods are the only reason most people keep playing my game, even if I try my best with frequently added content...

Shadlos is actually intending on removing this nerf in his rebalanced managarmr mod. Sadly it involves having to remap and recreate the entire dino, but it's at least a way out for PC players. It's just a shame that console has to deal with this due to a lack of mod support.

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1 hour ago, TriforceOfTime said:

Shadlos is actually intending on removing this nerf in his rebalanced managarmr mod. Sadly it involves having to remap and recreate the entire dino, but it's at least a way out for PC players. It's just a shame that console has to deal with this due to a lack of mod support.

I saw his workshop item, Balanced Managarmr, and checked it out. He has a lot of work to do to really fix them, and I am looking forward to it, unless WC decides to crank back their 'garmr hardcap. 

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13 minutes ago, Dadas said:

This is a massive scam, they trashed the DLC one year after we all bought it, class action lawsuit anyone?

I wouldn't say it was a scam at all. While the dino is pretty trashed, it's not ripping you off of a product. You can still access the DLC and its creatures just as well; this is just an unjust nerf that could've been handled way better. People are making this nerf seem like the end of the world when it's really not; it's moreso just a pain that makes the use of the creature less enjoyable and more of a chore. I can still use my managarmr, but that has like.. 60 stacked mutations, and is fully levelled to level 497 (max lvl 180). And even then, that's a pain to use.

58 minutes ago, Alsehr said:

I saw his workshop item, Balanced Managarmr, and checked it out. He has a lot of work to do to really fix them, and I am looking forward to it, unless WC decides to crank back their 'garmr hardcap. 

At this rate, I highly doubt that they'll revert their nerf. Cedric has been silent for a couple of days and not a word more has been spoken about the nerf, so it seems as though they're sticking with this. Ah well, one can dream, I suppose.

Edited by TriforceOfTime

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Wasn't there a public server to test such things out before they came out? One of the most versatile creatures in Ark is now so annoying to use that I better hop on a Wyvern or Rock Drake and do something else. I spent the last 2 weeks breeding Manas and got nice babies. Won't bother raising them at this point. They'll just stand pretty in the base.

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21 minutes ago, Alsehr said:

This was the wrong way to approach balance for the managarmr.

I wont claim this was the only way to get closer to a balanced state nor do I know if was the 'best' way either. But I do claim that it needed to have its abilities toned down significantly more.

With that said I don't think the mana should have been touched for pve server rule sets. That makes no sense to me. But for pvp servers.... for sure.

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7 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

I wont claim this was the only way to get closer to a balanced state nor do I know if was the 'best' way either. But I do claim that it needed to have its abilities toned down significantly more.

With that said I don't think the mana should have been touched for pve server rule sets. That makes no sense to me. But for pvp servers.... for sure.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure that Wildcard makes their DLC with PvE in mind, though their patches seem to be solely PvP-related. It'd be so much easier for everyone if we had an .ini setting to just enable or disable PvE/PvP stats, though separating it from the main function to enable which gamemode as some PvErs like to play with PvP on so they can kill babies easily. The PvE community is just getting slapped in the face constantly with nerfs for PvP, and while nerfing isn't too bad of a thing to do, you really need to take into consideration both sides of people that play this game. Focusing too much on one gamemode could turn people from the other away.

Edited by TriforceOfTime

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To me the worst thing here is that they didn't even succeed in lowering it's capability outside of rather specific cases, they just ruined it for that and made it more annoying and less fun to use. It can still be abused in pvp, and even was being abused more just after the nerf and they had to fix it's pounce damage, it can still cross the map at extreme speed, they didn't change it's health or breath damage.

It sometimes seems like they are sticking to their guns on the more silly nerfs they do out of spite for the vicious angry backlash they get from some people. The mana needed and still needs balancing. This is not a balance nerf. This is a mistake, and if the devs can't see that.... I don't know, maybe I'm playing the wrong game.

That said, since it was brought up, I don't blame them for the flyer speed nerf - it was needed, but I do think that could have been done better as well, for example does everyone realize it buffed every other stat for future flyer tames?  Most knowledgeable breeders likely do. They eliminated points in speed on wild fliers, so more points going into useful stats and more extreme high stat bred flyers even before mutations. That should have been applied to all dinos and stats balanced around it, slightly more work then but more consistency going forward.

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On 12/21/2019 at 7:11 PM, covenantgrunt said:

apologies, i let my temper run wild sorry about that.

I just wanted to highligjht its not a case of the managarmr being op in pvp. The manas design make it just as op in pve. And makes wyverns, rock drakes, griffins completely useless on pve servers except as a vanity. I should have phrased it better sorry.

Thank you, and most of that is valid, but isn't what this thread is about, as I said the change being disputed here doesn't fix that issue, it doesn't make it slower, do less damage, or be less tanky. I've not seen any comments here about the " Reduced Managarmr ice-breath exponential damage scaling by approximately 20% " change. People are annoyed about the movement change that makes them less fun to use and unable to access parts of extinction they used to be a solid mount for. And then there's some that whine, but you'll get those with every change.

Though I might argue the rock drake bit, I still prefer rock drakes on Aberration, just wish they'd fix some of the bugs they have. And I still use my Wyverns on most maps for creature pickups and scouting, being able to hover and all that.

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47 minutes ago, nameless said:

if mana is nerfed, does that mean manas will also be fixed so that they wont disappear on island anymore?

 

I mean.. technically? The disappearance on The Island is due to you and your mana reaching the height limit too quickly, so the game just autodeletes your character and the mana alongside it. It stops you from reaching that limit as easily, but honestly that feature as a whole is ridiculous.

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4 hours ago, TriforceOfTime said:

I mean.. technically? The disappearance on The Island is due to you and your mana reaching the height limit too quickly, so the game just autodeletes your character and the mana alongside it. It stops you from reaching that limit as easily, but honestly that feature as a whole is ridiculous.

um.... mine disappeared after nerf...…….

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So the end game dragon that i paid extra money for, that could never truly fly(it cant even hover like the dossier says), cant 'fly' at all now?  Its beam is nearly worthless at point blank and costs way to much stamina.  All in the name of balance?  I suppose the rex and spino need balanced because our poor raptors are getting Unicorned and no one wants to use them.  And the compy!  They cant even be rode or have a saddle!  need to balance them better with like a base offense of 1000.  And galli are so fast so lets make sure the flying snail cant pick them up!(which they did, and it makes no darn sense).  And old players have all this nice stuff, so lets give all the new people a free tek base and weapons.  and lets prevent breeding all together.  old players are to powerful with it, besides, dino dont breed(just like giant crabs dragons and snakes dont breed).  why the F do you think they went extinct for?  they never figured out how to get it on!

Its called progression wc.  its called earning what you have.  its called comparing within a tier.  balance within progression.  you dont understand this wc.  u cant compare an endgame dino to a beginner.  you cant compare a noob to setup megatribes.  you cant balance 1 tier to another.  you cant remove progression and the value of paid endgame things.    you cant nerf the endgame dragon to make it completely obsolete to the dragon from 2 years prior that can stay aloft, do more dmg at longer range, and carry things.  Oh, it can hover too.

Why not just redo the mana to allow it to legit fly and make its offense speed and range a lil better then a lightning wyvern?  boom!  progression and balance .  No turret tracking breaking dashing, really wc u nerfed fliers partly for this reason.

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And once again, you just ruined the game because of some crybabies. 'omg manas are too OP blablabla'

Don't even expect rebalancing them. We all know how the flier nerf ended.. 2 years and we still waiting for it.

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On 12/19/2019 at 8:29 AM, cocob1 said:

Mana Nerf

Manas are already pretty much useless, why the hell are WC nerfing them even more?!?!?!

Who wants to use a mana to get anywhere when you have to land every dash you take hahahah DILO

WC most useless devs ever jesus

Yes keep nerfing all ext dinos just so you can sell genesis and the new dinos that are gonna be OP until people complain and you nerf them into the ground

Manas simply never should've been introduced in to the game. They fundamentally broke teh game in every aspect and continued to do so even after nerfs.

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7 hours ago, Orion said:

Manas simply never should've been introduced in to the game. They fundamentally broke teh game in every aspect and continued to do so even after nerfs.

Mostly because they couldn't balance them correctly, many of the nerfs they made just made them more annoying to use, not better balanced or less exploitable. There's nothing wrong with the creature design itself, it's the tuning.

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On 12/19/2019 at 6:53 AM, invincibleqc said:

R.I.P. My only issue with these official PVP balances is that they are always forced on unofficials. 😩

I agree 100%. The way the game is designed, with so many settings, and such a vast difference in the impact of those settings... you would think that they would leave game balance issues entirely in the realm of configurable settings and then configure the official servers the way they want them, leaving private servers to choose their own path. 

This is exactly why I believe WC should be responsible for considering the mods in their own game development. They may claim the mods aren't official and they don't have to support them, but they are absolutely THE CAUSE of all the mods. You just know that their reasoning is "well we can nerf the mana and someone will create a 'classic manas' mod." 

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On 12/20/2019 at 4:18 PM, Fukushu said:

The mana is still the fastes travel mount for PVE and an absolute monster that can kill everything in PVE with the new stats that nearly everyone on official has.

On a private server you can crank out an imprinted wyvern that just have to pause momentarily to eat a dozen manas and poop out the Giga they had for breakfast. All thanks to the fact that wyverns were 'nerfed' in the game, knowing people would compensate with a mod.  

'Balance issues' over dinos seems like a weird thing to tweak when 'official' PvP servers have much bigger issues with keeping new players. The entire game is built around progression, and you have throngs of advanced players wiping out new player for their morning jollies. How does tweaking the mana and forcing people to a mod to compensate do anything other than exhaust people's patience and frustrate long time players who have invested their time in the game?  

IMO, a far better solution would be to introduce new in game settings that allow server side configuration of stats for specific dinos. For instance, being able to adjust stamina drain rate on a specific creature for a specific task. Then cripple the official server's to hearts content and let private servers decide what they want to do. Then as a server admin, if I decide that on my server too many people are relying on wyverns, I can make my own adjustments.

Edited by DeHammer
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On 12/23/2019 at 4:50 AM, nameless said:

if mana is nerfed, does that mean manas will also be fixed so that they wont disappear on island anymore?

 

Yes. This. Currently when trapped wild manas run out of stamina trying to get away, their 'jump/hover' stays engaged and they float off to the top of the map. This is something that should be fixed, but probably won't be fixed.

Or how about fixing the game so that any flyer that runs out of stamina or over weights itself falls to the ground. Does it really make sense that a flyer like Dimorphodon should be able to weigh itself down eating, then it's stuck in the air unable to land? 

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