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Manas Nerfed Hard With New Update


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10 hours ago, Drahkon said:

At least the flyer nerf completed most of it's task, it prevented a number of bugs and exploits that revolved around cranking speed. It could have been done another way but at least it got the job done without having a totally negative impact to game-play, there were pros and cons. I never protested that nerf once even if it was inconvenient. This one doesn't even accomplish anything positive.

Fair enough.  The positive thing they were going for (in my opinion) was to do exactly the thing that I (or we) said:  Make it a less attractive catch-all travel mount.  Due to its nature it is still one of, if not the fastest creatures in game.

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44 minutes ago, TheDonn said:

Fair enough.  The positive thing they were going for (in my opinion) was to do exactly the thing that I (or we) said:  Make it a less attractive catch-all travel mount.  Due to its nature it is still one of, if not the fastest creatures in game.

Roll rats still fastest, no one ever remembers it :(

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3 hours ago, TheDonn said:

Is that true?  I would've never thought they'd be faster than a Mana.  I know they do move pretty fast but hmm, I don't know if I believe that.

I'd believe a source if it was a legitimate test and not a Cantex YouTube video!

https://youtu.be/gZfj-N00_KY

Figured I'd do a little showcase of the rat. You can see at the end it had 295% speed, which is the normal max speed for an imprinted roll rat.

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17 hours ago, Drahkon said:

Thank you for not being completely close minded like so many have been, but I do disagree on a point here, mobility is the one feature of the mana that shouldn't be in line with it's peers, as mobility is it's main feature.

And here is the problem with that. Believe it or not mobility affects all other attributes as well. In of itself with the current game design mobility is the essential and most powerful feature any player, dino, or other can have. Don't believe me? Look into how many pvpers run around with a massive amount of points in hp? Or melee? And now how about speed stat? Speed is far favored even after the point scaling nerf. Why is this? For the same reason mana being given an unchecked free pass on mobility is too much. 

Mobility affects how much damage you can do.

Mobility affects how much damage and enemy can do to you.

Mobility affects how easy you can respond to attacks.

Mobility affects how easy you can flee from an attack.

Superior mobility gives you the ability to have up time on your target and allows you to maximize your dps on it. Superior mobility allows you to avoid damage an enemy wants to do to you as you control range. Superior mobility allows you to deploy quickly to prevent enemies from getting favorable position. Superior mobility allows you to flee from an attack and puts the ball in your court if you want to re-engage on better conditions or end the fight. 

 

Superior mobility is key and thus is the essential reason why mana's are op.

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6 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

And here is the problem with that. Believe it or not mobility affects all other attributes as well. In of itself with the current game design mobility is the essential and most powerful feature any player, dino, or other can have. Don't believe me? Look into how many pvpers run around with a massive amount of points in hp? Or melee? And now how about speed stat? Speed is far favored even after the point scaling nerf. Why is this? For the same reason mana being given an unchecked free pass on mobility is too much. 

Mobility affects how much damage you can do.

Mobility affects how much damage and enemy can do to you.

Mobility affects how easy you can respond to attacks.

Mobility affects how easy you can flee from an attack.

Superior mobility gives you the ability to have up time on your target and allows you to maximize your dps on it. Superior mobility allows you to avoid damage an enemy wants to do to you as you control range. Superior mobility allows you to deploy quickly to prevent enemies from getting favorable position. Superior mobility allows you to flee from an attack and puts the ball in your court if you want to re-engage on better conditions or end the fight. 

 

Superior mobility is key and thus is the essential reason why mana's are op.

Yes, superior mobility is the preferred focus and improves it's ability to do the rest, but mobility alone is almost nothing. The Mana is the end game mount for the most current content, it being 'the best' in and of itself isn't the issue, it becomes an issue when there's not even a contest anymore. And again, the mana needing balancing isn't even the question, the question is if this change is a positive for the game. Does this change help balance the game? Not really, it does very little to limit the mana in the areas it ruins. A PVP mutated mana can still boost into someones base, cause havoc and losses, and boost back out with little risk. If you can find a blind spot in the defense you could even spend a little time doing some real damage. Does it Negatively impact the game? Yes, for many it severely impacts how much they enjoy using the mana, and I'm not even talking about pvp, but I'm sure many people enjoy mana pvp as well.

One of it's biggest issues is dash boosting too fast for turret tracking, and this doesn't slow it down one bit.

Another is it's damage output, being able to appear out of nowhere, do a massive burst of damage, and disappear again. This one is mostly a scaling issue. A tamed mana at most ranges is actually poor dps, but due to the severe damage falloff with range scaling they implemented, along with how well its overall damage scales with levels, means a high damage mana at ideal range does massive damage.  Combine that with excellent mobility faster than turret tracking, where turrets are virtually the only option for defending a base offline.

You mention the speed stat scaling nerf, another needed nerf. Also a mostly successful nerf, as you say, many pvpers still pack speed, it's the favored stat, but now it's a choice. You have to invest in it and lose out on other stats rather than just throw a modest number of points in there and be too fast to hit. Does it need another nerf? Maybe, I don't pvp enough to say. Was it an improvement to the game? Yes.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I made no statement indicating it should have a free pass on mobility, I even indicated a nerf on it was acceptable in another post. Perhaps my choice of words wasn't the best. I did say this nerf is not the change it needs to be balanced, and is not an improvement to the game overall.

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All i want is server ini settings to enjoy the game and its creatures how i like to. most others do to. while this nerf really doesnt fix pvp balance at all it does mostly ruin a very fun creature and creates an unpleasant and clunky feel to it. 

I really dont know why its so hard to make these things reversible for people and this sole issue of not proving ways to revert these changes is why i i am not picking up the DLCs. I love this game, have over 5500 hours and i have run/hosted servers for over 3 years and even bought copies,  DLCs and all for so many friends who in turn loved this game. it just saddens me that i really dont feel like supporting it anymore til the developers can finally give us options to revert these kinds of significant changes to creatures (as well as more customization to individual creature stats and settings like the levels post tame they gain etc and base stat adjusting). 

Its such an easy way to make most happy (sorry for those who cant do these things/only have official ) and should have been done with the original flier nerf (though i was semi ok with that after the extra rebalances post nerf). For whatever reason they have always refused to do this or even give a reason for not doing it. Alas it is most likely a mod will fix it but still my point stands.

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On 12/28/2019 at 11:06 AM, johnm81 said:

IMO you are right. And wrong.

Yes they nerfed it to make genesis creatures look better and to make more money off of that. I agree.

But I disagree that it wasn't needed. They have been tuning the mana down  for a while now and have stated on live streams that the creature was too good at too many things. I recall a live stream where the rag map designer and ced were opening teasing the engineer (who was sitting next to them) that made the managarmr  about how it is just too good of a creature.

Its only to good though because of stupid limitations placed on its competition, limitations that break the games logic too.  Wyverns need to be breedable.

 

On 12/25/2019 at 1:09 PM, johnm81 said:

Are you sure you do? 

What is the "tier" of managarmr. Nevermind that this definition is subjective thus you might look at WC and say they are nerfing too hard but only because the "tier" you think they are in might not be the one intended by them.

So lets answer the question. What tier of flyers do managarmr exist in? Is it Wyverns, Managarmr, and Quetz? Are there any others? Because if that is the tier the managarmr should definitely be nerfed by the very approach you claim WC isn't following. Wyverns breath weapon aiming is a skill and an art. Poison Wyvern breath weapon aim is broken and has never worked. Mana on the other hand breath weapon has a freaking cross hair and if in the front arc hits true to his aim. Mobility? Wyverns and Quetz fall to the mana prior to this nerf in this department as well. Mana's can attack and if need be disengage and come back to continue a fight without fear of being stopped. Manas can swim super fast in water. They regen stam in water. No other flyer in its "tier" can do this. 

Can a quetz or wyvern do anything better than a managarmr? A quetz has a saddle platform and so can be used to rush turret walls. A mana can do this as well with its dash AND can do it in AB! What about griffins? Do they belong in the mana group? Can griffins be bread and get armor from saddles so their stats can reach God level from mega breed lines? No even here manas are better.

Even if you look at it in this 'tier' of flyers the managarmr needed this nerf. 

 

PS for official pvp only

Lightning wyvern does more dmg (not counting bred) at longer range(regardless of dmg breeding) because manas only do good at point blank and stagger out of the attack when hit making nearly worthless and it costs way to much stamina.  Yes i agree stam regen in water is bs.  as is wyverns can go farther faster then manas by flight because of the manas 1 burst and insane regen time.  While u sit regening after 1 burst the wyvern passes u up.  So combat wyvern wins, traversal, wyvern wins.  The mana shud b better then a wyvern, at least slightly.  It cant scout well because it cant hover like anything else that flies can.  it cant grab like all other fliers.  For the mana, its tier is bred vs unbred.  U cant compare a bred dino to unbred.  the flaw is we cant breed wyverns.  224 mana vs 190 wyvern highly favors the wyvern.  Thing is manas need to breed to b worth anything.  Wyverns dont, and you earn your awesome manas spending a month breeding stam.  Anyone nuts enough to go through that bs deserves something special.  I think manas getting the ability to upgrade speed is wrong as well.  Its a flier and should be locked.  Technically the mana is consider above the wyvern in teir though.  it has an intended base lvl to ride it, wyverns dont.  Is a later game tame and the largest endgame specific dino assigning it the apex of extinction (not counting boss creatures).  Its an f'n tek dragon.  Its meant for dealing with extinctions crazy bs, like titans for instance.  Wc's mistake is trying to comform things to to any restrictions.  1 hand u have titans and crazy corrupt dinos, on the other you have unbreedable wyverns.  Best solution, tweak the mana a lil and bring the wyvern breeding.  Heck remove the restriction from the majority of dinos.  At this point in the game it makes lil sense we cant breed insects or wyverns but we got breedable gigas and titans roaming the arks.  as stated there will always b a best/preferred dino.  There will always b 1 terrorizing ppl.  Thats the nature of pvp with progression based content.  Its proper tho that it b the mana over anything from previous maps.  If theRes something from Gen that replaces the mana, then ok, thats how it should be.  Another flaw of this game is u can completely break canon, it would b better to be forced to go through the game stage by stage instead of rushing right into extinction.  That destroys the progression as well as the appreciation of any of the other content that lead to the new stuff which also destroys the deeper appreciation of the new stuff.  Im not saying adjustments wernt needed, just not like this.

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Nitrado, Managarmr issue

I really need someone to help me.. 

For some reasons, on my nitrado server, the Manas can't only do one jump and 1 dash forward. Nothing more 

I can jump, dash, slide towards (to do another dash) but then I can't dash again 

Also I can only jump 3 times in a row, then I stops from doing anything

I don't really know what's wrong with it

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You realize this just means new more OP breeding lines soon enough now that stam is nearly useless, right. No point having 'wasted' points in stam pushing you towards the level limit when you can crank your health, damage, and speed even higher instead. The heavy scaling stamina costs of the repeated dash were holding it back.

On 1/2/2020 at 11:16 AM, Helsel89d said:

I don't understand why people always complain about dino nerfs. It effects everyone so just adjust and move on. Plus manas are to OP and useful. I still always use one even with the changes. I just secretly complain the entire time. 

A excellent quote to illustrate my point. It didn't balance it for crap, it just ticked off people who enjoyed how fun they were to ride. Everyone is just used to this crap from WC and either gives up or leaves. It's a game, it supposed to be fun. Good job nerfing fun if that was your goal.

Whatever, WC. I'm done talking to a wall. Maybe I'll play, maybe I won't. I was planning on spending a good bit of time on the game for the holiday event, this crap irritated me so much every time I tried I don't think I even got 2 hours in since patch. Great place to leave customers you're trying to sell more content to.

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On 1/5/2020 at 2:30 PM, Drahkon said:

...it just ticked off people who enjoyed how fun they were to ride. Everyone is just used to this crap from WC and either gives up or leaves. It's a game, it supposed to be fun...

Yep, it was maybe the most fun creature to travel. Thanks to the nerf I moved on to The Witcher 3, so that's positive for me I guess! :D I didn't touch it for months because I was too busy in Ark.

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4 hours ago, tbfrnritunbv6 said:


Yeah, this is likely going to be a problem. Balancing shouldn't be done be nerfing poop, but by providing a good counter alternative. Someone in this very thread posted the idea of making Manas very vulnerable to fire (even torches). This would make sense (they're an 'Ice Jumper' after all), balance it more than this this nerf does and on top of that, it would give players an incentive to use Flamethrowers & Fire Arrows (very underused currently) and even Torches in battle.

I think Mana is intended to be opponent to corrupted = fire Wyverns on Extinction.

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On 12/19/2019 at 8:59 PM, Cedric said:

I see there's a lot of active conversation over this change.  I'm monitoring and will relay all of this back to the team.  If needed, it can be adjusted further.

Now really why do you need to lie at the beginning?
You have never ever payed attention or dealt with feedbacks only if it was a PvP complaint.
You simply don't care about PvE players the only time something happens is when PvP players are crying on something.
With every nerf we got it made neither a better nor a pleasanter game. "It's surprising" the PvP players are not satisified again.
You really needed to ruin the poor Managarmr?
Why did we need this? Who asked for it?
Who had the request to nerf something which had already been nerfed to the ground?
It was originally OP, but a normal balance would have been enough. No. It got a rude nerf to make it's frost breath pointless.
You need to stand under a Giga to damage it beacuse the frost breath length is not even longer than the Mana itself.
Some sort of idiot managed to give birth to an idea which was to make the miserable length of the skill to even "scale" and at the end
it's only 0 damage on a Pulmino too.
Congratulations... There was a complaint about this and as always you simly don't care. Now you nerf even more the creature which was only usable as travel mount.
You still have the courage to come here and write something like, you care about us?
You are spiting in the eye of your own playerbase. If accidentally, you would do something with the feedback, we would get a new raptored up nerf as always which would only make it worse.
You are not brave enough to say "Okay guys... we did a mistake, we will revert it back."
No. You came here and wrote the "we are paying attention" bullpoop.
What kind of reply did we get from the previous huge Mana nerf, Velo nerf, Owl nerf...etc? Nothing.
What did we get after this unnecessary nerf? Again nothing.
You are in your hypocrite quiet from 11 days. You still do not care about what we say.
You did not even read that 11 pages... if you would have read it and had a spine... there would have been a news which contains the revert.
Once in a lifetime at last you would not raptor with your playerbase.

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@Sunhairoh wow, you really need to relax ..., why attacking the devs like this omg ..., chill man

and im GLAD they didnt revert it mana is broken, even the whole concept of it is broken, and if your being HONEST fo rjsut a second anyone would see it !!

why ? here exemple why

1 : managarmr can dive bomb and do tons of dmg (like griffin, snow owl)

2 : can move really fast (actually fastest creature if im not wrong ...), even underwater its FASt, as fast as an ichty or a tuso !!!  (i even see ppl raid pearl cave on island with these !)

3 : got a channeling attack, that not even wyvern, phoenix or basilisk got (just this one thing make it broken already), and yeah lets talk bout that, you can litterally freeze, and dismount ppl, and while frozen they take MORE dmg o.O wut ?! not even ICE wyvern go tthat !!

4 : extremly easy to tame them when you compare it to others end game tame (wyvern, basi, reaper, drake, phoenix ?)

5 : you can breed them ! (check 4 and repeat here !)

6 : it can fly, yes its not a glider, some migh targue that it is but no, when a tame/dino, can lift its own weight then it become a flyer

7 : no restriction on map (check 6) mana can go on abb when other "wyvern. phoenix cant"

and i got a story about abb, i 2 week ago in abb saw a guys, going into the RED zone in abb, looked for a queen, found 1, lured her in a trap, got pregnant with her, and killed her, and bailed out .... with halfway not using mushroom ...

like seriously ?

 

ok now if anyone here is being HONEST 1 minute will sit down and say "oh wow yeah maybe managarmr are broken" im not saying too strong on purpose, (even if they are ...)

because my point isnt that

such creature shouldnt be in the game in first place

 

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On 12/19/2019 at 10:55 AM, invincibleqc said:

but I can only feel sorry for consoles players that don't have any recourse at all.

I play on ps4, and I have completely lost all hope in the managarmr. I have tamed around 7 or 8 manas, which all of them are now rendered useless because of this update. I never even really liked the mamas because they where op, I enjoyed being able to travel the map in my singleplayer world on meat runs and taming event dinos. I can now barely even use them to get wyvern eggs anymore. My lvl 239 mana with 4k stam that really is all wasted points. It's really not even worth taming at this point, even bred and imprinted ones are just a waste of time. And since im on console, theres nothing I can really do about. Since WC dosemt really care at this point it's kinda disappointing. I liked and had so much fun with the mana before the newest nerf.

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REMOVE latest mana nerf [patch 304..21]

i never had a problem with the manas before this nerf. they had almost zero range with ice breath, the stamina was trash, bad melee, but tbh the only thing i cared about on a mana was how fast they could travel. now they have basically removed it. pls WC i know you guys dont see this as any different from a random complaint, but i enjoyed using manas, they where my favorite tame and now there not even worth getting, because they barely have any use outside of... well... you get the idea. NOTHING. 

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52 minutes ago, Pubbyxd said:

REMOVE latest mana nerf [patch 304..21]

i never had a problem with the manas before this nerf. they had almost zero range with ice breath, the stamina was trash, bad melee, but tbh the only thing i cared about on a mana was how fast they could travel. now they have basically removed it. pls WC i know you guys dont see this as any different from a random complaint, but i enjoyed using manas, they where my favorite tame and now there not even worth getting, because they barely have any use outside of... well... you get the idea. NOTHING. 

You probably who do not know how to play the mana right. Even after this nerf mana is still the single most fastest dino in game. And remains the single best dino in game. Third best damage, fastest mobility, incredibly tanky. Most of complaints about this patch comes from people who dont really know how to use a mana properly.

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