Jump to content

Manas Nerfed Hard With New Update


ChillEBean

Recommended Posts

On 12/24/2019 at 6:16 AM, DeHammer said:

Yes. This. Currently when trapped wild manas run out of stamina trying to get away, their 'jump/hover' stays engaged and they float off to the top of the map. This is something that should be fixed, but probably won't be fixed.

Or how about fixing the game so that any flyer that runs out of stamina or over weights itself falls to the ground. Does it really make sense that a flyer like Dimorphodon should be able to weigh itself down eating, then it's stuck in the air unable to land? 

Nope they didn't fix it, and don't ask me how I just found out about it, because its a sad story...…………...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 285
  • Created
  • Last Reply
4 hours ago, LEDminer said:

Just give it a few months and people will forget this like they did with the previous nerfs.

No, we didnt forget... or don't you see people still mention the flyer nerf? 
We learned, WC just does something stupid, they say they will monitor the reaction and act accordingly, but this is pure lie, they wont change anything. 

Here we already saw the same, some dev mentioned couple pages before they will look.. but we kmow what will happen. They just dont do anything positive. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Kydrah said:

They didn't nerf the Managarmr because it was needed, if it was the case then they'd do this nerf a long time ago.

No, the true reason they nerfed it is become of the upcoming Genesis and the new crop of dino(s) will be the new OP thing so it will be an incentive for people to spend $$$ on.

?

 

IMO you are right. And wrong.

Yes they nerfed it to make genesis creatures look better and to make more money off of that. I agree.

But I disagree that it wasn't needed. They have been tuning the mana down  for a while now and have stated on live streams that the creature was too good at too many things. I recall a live stream where the rag map designer and ced were opening teasing the engineer (who was sitting next to them) that made the managarmr  about how it is just too good of a creature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

IMO you are right. And wrong.

Yes they nerfed it to make genesis creatures look better and to make more money off of that. I agree.

But I disagree that it wasn't needed. They have been tuning the mana down  for a while now and have stated on live streams that the creature was too good at too many things. I recall a live stream where the rag map designer and ced were opening teasing the engineer (who was sitting next to them) that made the managarmr  about how it is just too good of a creature.

I agree the Mana needed to be nerfed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, johnm81 said:

But I disagree that it wasn't needed. They have been tuning the mana down  for a while now and have stated on live streams that the creature was too good at too many things. I recall a live stream where the rag map designer and ced were opening teasing the engineer (who was sitting next to them) that made the managarmr  about how it is just too good of a creature.

It was probably the best at a lot of things, but instead of tuning down certain aspects they just made it worse at all of those things. After the early nerfs for your average player with a decent tame its already less powerful and a bit harder to obtain than a lightning wyvern, just more mobile. But they kept making it worse to keep up with the super mutated official lines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Thyme said:

It was probably the best at a lot of things, but instead of tuning down certain aspects they just made it worse at all of those things. After the early nerfs for your average player with a decent tame its already less powerful and a bit harder to obtain than a lightning wyvern, just more mobile. But they kept making it worse to keep up with the super mutated official lines.

The unfortunate truth is that unless you make the mana unbreedable and delete all non-wild tamed manas the power creep of breeding mandates that balance be done with how the creature can be in its strongest state. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, TheSlayerNL said:

I been reading through here and well, why would seperating PvP from PvE be difficult? Just make 2 sets of settings and have them linked to PvE and PvP settings. Its not that its very impossible to do. Luckily we have mods to use Unnerfed Dinos ;)

It wouldn't be hard but it would require more manpower/worker hours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, johnm81 said:

The unfortunate truth is that unless you make the mana unbreedable and delete all non-wild tamed manas the power creep of breeding mandates that balance be done with how the creature can be in its strongest state. 

Yet you don't see them balancing rexes based on maxed out bred boss lines that do insane amounts of damage with equally crazy hp.

Flat out, this honestly seems to have more to do with the new content coming than any attempt at balance, it's far from the first time a popular creature suddenly got slapped down shortly before new content came out.

They've always been rather bad at balance, and the movement change did basically nothing for balance. It just made a dino from a vertical heavy map go from quite good at it to almost completely incapable.

Power creep can be mitigated, they have control of the scaling stats to reduce it if they so choose. That's not what they decided to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see a lot of people saying that the Mana should have never been nerfed for PVE which would be worst thing ever.

After Extinction opened and before the ice breath nerf, some smart people did EVERY SINGLE BOSS with the mana.

They killed the Alpha Dragon on Island with some Manas without the Dragon having the smallest chance. This is such a heavy unbalance compared to the other dinos that I would compare it to bringing gigas into bossfights.

How can you ignore such FACTS for PVE, if we still had those Mans no one would ever use anything else. 

Some others complaining about unofficial getting dragged into the nerfs is understandable but it would probably require so much extra work to make such options available for every patch/nerf/buff, it's extremely unreasonable. 

It's a good thing that you can fix the things you don't like with mods on unofficial but I wouldn't be happy if the Mana would be reverted back to being the hyper OP ''can do everything mount'' for official. The only thing it couldn't do was gather wood and berries.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Fukushu said:

I see a lot of people saying that the Mana should have never been nerfed for PVE which would be worst thing ever.

After Extinction opened and before the ice breath nerf, some smart people did EVERY SINGLE BOSS with the mana.

They killed the Alpha Dragon on Island with some Manas without the Dragon having the smallest chance. This is such a heavy unbalance compared to the other dinos that I would compare it to bringing gigas into bossfights.

How can you ignore such FACTS for PVE, if we still had those Mans no one would ever use anything else. 

I see a lot of people complaining about unofficial getting dragged into the nerfs but it would probably require so much extra work to make such options available for every patch/nerf/buff, it's extremely unreasonable. 

It's a good thing that you can fix the things you don't like with mods on unofficial but I wouldn't be happy if the Mana would be reverted back to being the hyper OP ''can do everything mount''. The only thing it couldn't do was gather wood and berries.

As far as those bosses go, Managarmr shouldn't be eligible for those, and if WC missed that it's their own fault. People keep going on about OP this and OP that, when it's not even relevant to this topic, this topic is about the movement change. It has nothing to do with it's damage, how fast it is, or how tanky it is. The dash/strafe/jump cap didn't make it move slower, kill slower, or die faster. It's the same for almost every 'pro-nerf' comment in the topic going on about the same crap, that matters zilch.

It's like voting for rexes to have the 'poop roar' nerfed because they do too much damage to bosses.

As has been said repeatedly, yes the Managarmr has problems, yes it needed and still needs balancing. The jump/strafe/dash cap is not effective balancing. It didn't make it less OP, it made it less fun and unable to access portions of it's own map.

 

Imagine you put weeks of time and effort into a gaming pc, got it just Perfect. Great frames, incredibly quiet and stable playing at maxed settings, best fun you ever had in your favorite game. Then two weeks later the card's firmware updated itself - framerate and resolution arbitrarily capped. No explanation, no reason, just a 'we're monitoring the situation' and silence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Thyme said:

It was probably the best at a lot of things, but instead of tuning down certain aspects they just made it worse at all of those things. After the early nerfs for your average player with a decent tame its already less powerful and a bit harder to obtain than a lightning wyvern, just more mobile. But they kept making it worse to keep up with the super mutated official lines.

How are manas harder to obtain than lightning wyverns ? As a fresh character you can do a 20 min note run  on island to reach level 70, make some dino gates, port to Extinction and tame your first mana. I am not exaggerating on official ARKpocalypse servers people get their first manas within 2-3 hours of a fresh wipe. It takes nearly 2 days before the first lightning wyvern is fully raised.

And how are manas weaker than lightning wyverns ? On official servers manas can have 30K+ HP, 190 armor saddles, 11K stamina. Wyverns are made of tissue paper compared to how tanky mana is due to saddle and HP mutations. Lightning wyverns electric breath damage pales before manas ice breath that is second only to gigas and velos in DPS. And even with nerf manas are still far faster and leave wyverns behind in dust when going from one side of ragnarok to other,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, covenantgrunt said:

How are manas harder to obtain than lightning wyverns ? As a fresh character you can do a 20 min note run  on island to reach level 70, make some dino gates, port to Extinction and tame your first mana. I am not exaggerating on official ARKpocalypse servers people get their first manas within 2-3 hours of a fresh wipe. It takes nearly 2 days before the first lightning wyvern is fully raised.

And how are manas weaker than lightning wyverns ? On official servers manas can have 30K+ HP, 190 armor saddles, 11K stamina. Wyverns are made of tissue paper compared to how tanky mana is due to saddle and HP mutations. Lightning wyverns electric breath damage pales before manas ice breath that is second only to gigas and velos in DPS. And even with nerf manas are still far faster and leave wyverns behind in dust when going from one side of ragnarok to other,

I was specifically talking about just average tamed manas, not the super mutated ones on official. Most people are rocking primitive saddles as well due to the rarity.  A lightning wyvern by comparison starts with good damage, enough to kill basically every wild dino, so people just used their manas to travel, but now they're making them worse at that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DrahkonI talked about the movement before, my last comment was only addressing the people that never wanted any nerfs and the ''old'' mana back.

Everyone in their right mind still uses the mana to get presents on ragna/abe because it is STILL faster than any other flying mount. 

The mana was a flying mount before this nerf, you were able to dash over half of Ragnarok in mere seconds, land and reg ANY amount of stamina in max 3 seconds when dismounted and just keep going endlessly. I really have no clue how that can seem balanced to you. 

The mana should have been struck by the flyer nerf like every other flyer. The last nerf turned the mana into a jumping dasher, which seems right to me and what it should have been from the very beginning since you can use it on Aberration.

It's still one of the fastest swimmers (which also regs stamina in water), the fastest land walker and reaches any point on the map faster than any other dino. (tested on Ragnarok with a 200% MS Mana after the nerf against a griffin) 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Fukushu said:

@DrahkonI talked about the movement before, my last comment was only addressing the people that never wanted any nerfs and the ''old'' mana back.

Everyone in their right mind still uses the mana to get presents on ragna/abe because it is STILL faster than any other flying mount. 

The mana was a flying mount before this nerf, you were able to dash over half of Ragnarok in mere seconds, land and reg ANY amount of stamina in max 3 seconds when dismounted and just keep going endlessly. I really have no clue how that can seem balanced to you. 

The mana should have been struck by the flyer nerf like every other flyer. The last nerf turned the mana into a jumping dasher, which seems right to me and what it should have been from the very beginning since you can use it on Aberration.

It's still one of the fastest swimmers (which also regs stamina in water), the fastest land walker and reaches any point on the map faster than any other dino. (tested on Ragnarok with a 200% MS Mana after the nerf against a griffin) 

 

Funny how I've agreed with nearly all of that, and yet people keep pushing it. Some even bringing up the bug they introduced that gave them Massively OP dive damage that had to be immediately patched into it as if it's somehow another reason this nerf was a good thing.

The whole point I've been trying to make is that this change Didn't do the job, the Mana needs balancing, but this does not balance it. All it did was make it less fun and more annoying to use, it still does all the OP bits it did slightly differently.  It just ticked people who enjoy the mana off by making them less fun to ride and unable to get a few places on extinction.

The limit should be reverted and the Mana properly balanced. The dash shouldn't benefit from MS, it's land and water MS needs a bit of a nerf, which I'd be fine with if they fix some of the other issues with mana land movement. The dash needs further adjustment, but this isn't it, this didn't make it slower, it just changed the movement pattern.

Heck I'd even be fine with reduced jumps/strafes/dashes if it wasn't for how heavy handed they were with it. It's like the only tool they know how to use for balancing is a sledge hammer.  When they made the Stamina usage change it was annoying, but was I here over it? No. It's airborne ability needed limiting and at the time it did a fair job of it while still retaining the play of the creature, it just didn't complete the job - accounting for mutation stacking. On the topic of Managarmr on Aberration? I 100% agree they don't belong there any more than they do in the old boss arenas.

People claim the change needs to stay because the Mana is still too fast, I'd say that's exactly why this change is a failure - it negatively impacted play yet It did not have the required balance effect. Gee Wiz, the Mana is 20% too fast, let's nerf the fun by 30%, make it frustrating to use here, here and there, and reduce it's speed by 1.5%... There - balanced, pats on the back for everyone, and if anyone complains we'll just ignore them until they leave, we don't need them to buy the new DLC anyway.

Not directed at you really, but too many of the people seem to be all over this thread pushing to keep the change just because it's a Managarmr nerf, not to fix anything, not to make it balanced, not to improve the game. Just to hurt it in some way because someone used one to eat their favorite dodo or steal their Christmas present.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/29/2019 at 5:25 AM, Drahkon said:

Yet you don't see them balancing rexes based on maxed out bred boss lines that do insane amounts of damage with equally crazy hp.

Flat out, this honestly seems to have more to do with the new content coming than any attempt at balance, it's far from the first time a popular creature suddenly got slapped down shortly before new content came out.

They've always been rather bad at balance, and the movement change did basically nothing for balance. It just made a dino from a vertical heavy map go from quite good at it to almost completely incapable.

Power creep can be mitigated, they have control of the scaling stats to reduce it if they so choose. That's not what they decided to do.

To say that WC sucks at other tame balancing is true. But doesn't mean that as a rule of fact you do have to balance with the tames best state in mind. And yes I agree this nerf didn't address that as well as changing the scaling and quantity of mutations. 

These changes are good changes as in it puts the managarmr more in line with its peers in terms of mobility however, you are correct that the timing is interesting being now is the only time when they actually have a monetary incentive to get everyone off of the mana kick and on to whatever is coming in genesis

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

To say that WC sucks at other tame balancing is true. But doesn't mean that as a rule of fact you do have to balance with the tames best state in mind. And yes I agree this nerf didn't address that as well as changing the scaling and quantity of mutations. 

These changes are good changes as in it puts the managarmr more in line with its peers in terms of mobility however, you are correct that the timing is interesting being now is the only time when they actually have a monetary incentive to get everyone off of the mana kick and on to whatever is coming in genesis

Thank you for not being completely close minded like so many have been, but I do disagree on a point here, mobility is the one feature of the mana that shouldn't be in line with it's peers, as mobility is it's main feature. When you balance a specialty it should suitably exceed any peer that does not share that specialty focus.  The biggest current problem is that it scales too well with mutations and ends up excelling too much in too many other areas as well, combined with poorly tuned changes to it's breath damage that result in an extremely broad damage range that allow it to go off the charts with some focus and abuse. 

Edit: Also, I was not saying "you do have to balance with the tames best state in mind", the statement was in dispute of someone stating it as reason behind the change. I fully expect the time and effort put into breeding to give an appropriate return, that such creatures be substantially better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Drahkon said:

The whole point I've been trying to make is that this change Didn't do the job, the Mana needs balancing, but this does not balance it. All it did was make it less fun and more annoying to use, it still does all the OP bits it did slightly differently.  It just ticked people who enjoy the mana off by making them less fun to ride and unable to get a few places on extinction.

That is basically what the Flyer "Nerf" did, because it was focused on speed more than anything else.  In many cases (dare I say all cases), each individual flyer got -BETTER- at every task/role because of the lack of point investment in speed.  They were not "nerfed," they are now just "more boring to use."  Just like the Mana feels now, if you have Mana'd around since Extinction's launch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheDonn said:

That is basically what the Flyer "Nerf" did, because it was focused on speed more than anything else.  In many cases (dare I say all cases), each individual flyer got -BETTER- at every task/role because of the lack of point investment in speed.  They were not "nerfed," they are now just "more boring to use."  Just like the Mana feels now, if you have Mana'd around since Extinction's launch.

At least the flyer nerf completed most of it's task, it prevented a number of bugs and exploits that revolved around cranking speed. It could have been done another way but at least it got the job done without having a totally negative impact to game-play, there were pros and cons. I never protested that nerf once even if it was inconvenient. This one doesn't even accomplish anything positive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/29/2019 at 11:21 AM, Thyme said:

I was specifically talking about just average tamed manas, not the super mutated ones on official. Most people are rocking primitive saddles as well due to the rarity.  A lightning wyvern by comparison starts with good damage, enough to kill basically every wild dino, so people just used their manas to travel, but now they're making them worse at that.

Well on the official ARKPOCALYPSE servers which wipe every 30 days, manas are lot more used than lightning wyvern.  A max level tamed Mana, and its bred 2nd gen descendants are still much faster than a lightning wyvern. And the range and damage on their beam is equal or better. Wyverns are pretty strong on Arkpocalypse due to fresh server reset every 30 days preventing them from being powercreeped by bred dinos, but manas still dominate pvp, due to being far easier to get while being almost as good if not better in most situations. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...