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So does Classic Flyers really make the game unbalanced?


YamiJustin

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So does Classic Flyers really make the game unbalanced?

Assuming it's not a strictly PVP focused server, is pumping movement into flyers that op?

I have my own server and was toying with adding the mod.

But if it's that busted maybe I'll leave it.

Also, does anyone know how to edit a creature's base stats? I'd like to undo some stupid nerfs done over the years, looking at you griffin

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For a PVP server it would break the balance but for PVE really all it does is allow you to zip from one side of the island to the other in 2 minutes, and kill things like alpha raptors with a ptera. It would just basically speed things up really, because it is still possible (post nerf) to get from one side of the island to the other without stopping for stam, it just takes forever.

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4 minutes ago, Cowgirl said:

For a PVP server it would break the balance but for PVE really all it does is allow you to zip from one side of the island to the other in 2 minutes, and kill things like alpha raptors with a ptera. It would just basically speed things up really, because it is still possible (post nerf) to get from one side of the island to the other without stopping for stam, it just takes forever.

Well surely on a PVE server it would be very unbalanced since it would effectively be removing the PVE side from the game. As PVE is all about fighting wild dinos instead of players, these wild dinos now would no longer be a real threat to your tanky fighter jet that comes with nuclear claws.

I am very surprised to hear that all these years later, there are still folks out there that hate the idea of the game being balanced and actively want to play in a deliberately unbalanced game.

You might as well go ahead and enable god mode too while your at it..

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Flyers get nerfed in every game.  The simple act of flying in game is pretty taxing.  Many times flying gets nerfed not just because of balance, but also game stability and user experience.   When game developers break their own speed limits... you get manas that disappear and usually a slightly crappier experience.

 

Have one or two people zipping around d on sped up wyvern no big deal.   Now get 30 players on with really fast wyverns .  Then see what happens.  You all should notice the game begin to choke on all of you.

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7 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Well surely on a PVE server it would be very unbalanced since it would effectively be removing the PVE side from the game. As PVE is all about fighting wild dinos instead of players, these wild dinos now would no longer be a real threat to your tanky fighter jet that comes with nuclear claws.

I am very surprised to hear that all these years later, there are still folks out there that hate the idea of the game being balanced and actively want to play in a deliberately unbalanced game.

You might as well go ahead and enable god mode too while your at it..

You still have E when you are doing everything else, it's not like being able to bring a BP to your friend across map in 2 mins is going to break the game. Nor does it matter if you spend 20 mins using a ptera to kill an alpha raptor. You could just go get something like a giga to do it.

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4 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

Isn’t it odd and how schizophrenic WC is that on one hand they balance fliers for extreme mobility and then introduce the managarmr. It’s almost like pvp balance is important except when it comes to selling dlc content.

yea, someone forgot some of the basic lessons of adding flying to games when they came up with the mana.  There's reasons other than balance of game play that come into focus when designing a player experience for a flying mount.  They completely forgot about them w/ the mana.  That's  partly why they keep disappearing.

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5 hours ago, LEDminer said:

Not just bringing a bp across the map, bringing an entire load of resources like metal across the map.

Using a ptera to kill an alpha vs. using a giga to kill an alpha. Giga is an end game creature, ptera is something you can tame early on.

You gotta think more deeper into these things.

You're still just speeding up the inevitable. Like I said it is still possible to fly from one end of the map to the other without stopping, it would just be faster with CF. And what does it matter if a ptera can kill an alpha? How will that break the game? Especially now since they aren't even worth that much XP.

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8 hours ago, johnm81 said:

Isn’t it odd and how schizophrenic WC is that on one hand they balance fliers for extreme mobility and then introduce the managarmr. It’s almost like pvp balance is important except when it comes to selling dlc content.

I think its a mix of selling DLC and the fact that players are inherently lazy and like to just go straight from A - B without having to deal with terrain and hostile dinos.

Unfortunately for this game the Devs caved in a long time to ago players that like shiny stuff and a dumbed down game. It's why players continue to depart. This game was at its peak in 2015/2016 before the Devs lost the plot and added all manner of insane crap to the game.

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2 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I think its a mix of selling DLC and the fact that players are inherently lazy and like to just go straight from A - B without having to deal with terrain and hostile dinos.

Unfortunately for this game the Devs caved in a long time to ago players that like shiny stuff and a dumbed down game. It's why players continue to depart. This game was at its peak in 2015/2016 before the Devs lost the plot and added all manner of insane crap to the game.

like flying whales? lol...

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Well, speed nerf was bad thing for me back in days. That's why I don't criticize CF, despite I otherwise see fliers as "evil".

Fliers should have been "help  quickly with my chores" creatures. Moving between bases, to get missing 6 pieces of crystals to craft something - fast.
This actually was not completely achieved by The Nerf. They removed a bit of the damage and speed.

They should have removed weight leveling instead of speed. It's ridiculous you can lift 1000 of iron with a bird. On the contrary, you would assume birds are fast for travel....

So I think the original state was bad, but they fixed it only in its small part.

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OP, I don't believe it does on PvE.  It makes it easy for people to tunnel-vision on speedy fliers, which is 95% the reason they will choose them over other mounts...  Just the speed.  On Ab, by far the largest used mount for Queen farming was the Drake for the longest time.  Pods have shifted that to Megalosaurus there, but only for some.  Many still use Drakes, even though they are horrible mounts for dino-to-dino combat.  Sure, you can shoot off their back, but I'm talking just straight melee.  But they are faster and more maneuverable.

But the PvE META (if you wanna call it that) is always going to include the quickest way to do stuff, so the flyer nerf just made flyers a more boring option.  As has been discussed, most dinos carry better and fight better than before the nerf, excepting Ptera c-spin cooldown.  They are just more boring to use.  PvP is a very different story with that, though.

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On 11/8/2019 at 1:17 AM, ForzaProiettile said:

Well surely on a PVE server it would be very unbalanced since it would effectively be removing the PVE side from the game. As PVE is all about fighting wild dinos instead of players, these wild dinos now would no longer be a real threat to your tanky fighter jet that comes with nuclear claws.

I am very surprised to hear that all these years later, there are still folks out there that hate the idea of the game being balanced and actively want to play in a deliberately unbalanced game.

You might as well go ahead and enable god mode too while your at it..

Not sure what alternate universe you live in, I would guess about 1/2 or more private PvE servers in some way have the ability to level speed on flyers. Either they have a mod like classic flyers or a mod that replaces the flyers with something that is faster or can level the speed on.

I only play unofficial PvE servers where I can level the flyer speed. I've played over 4000 hours of ARK that way, not going to change now just because someone thinks it was unbalanced for PvP.

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7 hours ago, Kinte said:

Well, speed nerf was bad thing for me back in days. That's why I don't criticize CF, despite I otherwise see fliers as "evil".

Fliers should have been "help  quickly with my chores" creatures. Moving between bases, to get missing 6 pieces of crystals to craft something - fast.
This actually was not completely achieved by The Nerf. They removed a bit of the damage and speed.

They should have removed weight leveling instead of speed. It's ridiculous you can lift 1000 of iron with a bird. On the contrary, you would assume birds are fast for travel....

So I think the original state was bad, but they fixed it only in its small part.

I would have liked to have seen them just limit the maximum speed and possibly the weight you can level to for PvE.

I can understand why they removed leveling the speed on PvP, but on PvE, it seems the only reason is that it was causing lag and other speed related problems on the official servers. They could have just limited the number of levels you put into speed. I have seen people level it so high that they fly faster than things around them can render.

I actually quit playing Scorched Earth and all official servers when this nerf came out. I had about 10 wyverns. These lost all value to me when they nerfed the speed. I had them for months and just left them all to die. I'd have to rate this one change as the worst ever.

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15 minutes ago, LEDminer said:

Since this post seems to be pretty active, I want to ask, what would you think about making flying more realistic? As in, allowing you to accelerate, having your turning radius increase as you gain speed, not being able to hover, or at least for long periods, and having other mechanics like taking off and landing softly?

Personally I prefer simplicity over realism for many things, especially flying. For several reasons:

1) Flying on the back of dino is not something any of knows what it should feel like, so there is no standard of what we think it should be like. Most of us don't fly except for in a jet, which isn't remotely the same, so the current type of flying doesn't break with what we know. I doubt making it more "realistic" will add to immersion.

2) Adding a more complicated mechanic doesn't come without costs. Those costs include bugs where it doesn't work right.

3) Variable turn radius would be a lot harder to use.

4) Adding more diving speed increases might be interesting, a few flyers have this already.

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1 hour ago, wildbill said:

Personally I prefer simplicity over realism for many things, especially flying. For several reasons:

1) Flying on the back of dino is not something any of knows what it should feel like, so there is no standard of what we think it should be like. Most of us don't fly except for in a jet, which isn't remotely the same, so the current type of flying doesn't break with what we know. I doubt making it more "realistic" will add to immersion.

2) Adding a more complicated mechanic doesn't come without costs. Those costs include bugs where it doesn't work right.

3) Variable turn radius would be a lot harder to use.

4) Adding more diving speed increases might be interesting, a few flyers have this already.

I kind of would like the mechanics to be blended a little with the gasbags flying a goodyear blimp feel.  A wyvern would feel interesting i think if it landed more w/ a crash into whatever instead of looking for a beautiful place to land.  

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1 minute ago, GrumpyBear said:

I kind of would like the mechanics to be blended a little with the gasbags flying a goodyear blimp feel.  A wyvern would feel interesting i think if it landed more w/ a crash into whatever instead of looking for a beautiful place to land.  

I've yet to tame a gasbag. I've just comeback to ARK after a break of a few years. The topic of how real should flying be kind of reminds me of people arguing over how real the sailing should be in Atlas. It started out originally pretty difficult and rafts and ships were getting stuck all over the place. They made it easier and then people complained it was not realistic. As far as I know, they did not go back to the harder mode where ships could not sail into the wind at all. Removing hover from birds would be kind of like removing sailing into the wind. More realistic but in practice, not very fun and a real pain to use for either ships or birds.

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