mutation Breeding question

[Xtrr]

Breeding question

Hello all! Recently I've been getting into trading on different servers, usually grabbing some strong dinos . I check the ancenstry list, and I see they sometimes use a low level in there mutations? I thought the low level tames are usually to be avoided during breeding? 
For instance, during this event I have been seen some nice color dinos but usually low level, is there a way I can utilize there color but start breeding strong dinos with them to get a "super" dino but with the event colors?
Sorry, I know theres a lot of things regarding breeding but this specific thing im confused about.

[Uueerdo]

Colors and stats are inherited separately, so you can mate a dino with the colors you want to your main line, and replace them with (better) offspring until you get a dino with the main line stats and colors. However, if the main line has mutations this will likely skyrocket the mutation count on the final product of this process depending on how many iterations it takes for you to get all the stats. It may be best to just breed it against the main line until it produces the best result in one generation (tossing out high stat wrong color and right color low stat products until you get lucky.)

[SMP]

I think the low level breeders are to minimize the worthless stats and leave more room before hitting a level cap.

[Uueerdo]

44 minutes ago, SMP said:

I think the low level breeders are to minimize the worthless stats and leave more room before hitting a level cap.

Yeah, that too. As far as I know, natural stats in Speed are always wasted. Oxygen is rather worthless on a large number of species (most people don't take their Rexes, Brontos, or Pteras swimming a whole lot). Food isn't real important outside of ease of raising and longer vacations. Similarly, Weight on a non-cargo dino is of limited use (though also helps a bit in raising).

[SMP]

50 minutes ago, Uueerdo said:

Yeah, that too. As far as I know, natural stats in Speed are always wasted. Oxygen is rather worthless on a large number of species (most people don't take their Rexes, Brontos, or Pteras swimming a whole lot). Food isn't real important outside of ease of raising and longer vacations. Similarly, Weight on a non-cargo dino is of limited use (though also helps a bit in raising).

Food is important for the Daeds since it lets them passive heal longer before running out of food.

Unless you've turned off resource gathering, weight can be a critical stat for offensive dinos.  Once they're overweight, they stop moving.

[Rogero]

3 hours ago, SMP said:

I think the low level breeders are to minimize the worthless stats and leave more room before hitting a level cap.

Yea and faster to find and tame lots of low levels, or cheaper to clone.

[GrumpyBear]

as a rough example - if u have 70 points in a stat and have it on a lvl 75 male and 100 lvl 5 females, u only have to watch for a lvl 77 to pop up , you don't ahve to check their inventories because you know exactly what stats they have. assuming the male and females match in their stats except for the one stat you are trying to mutate.

[Logan96]

Breeding low levels into your line won't hinder your progress unless you receive a mutation. This is because you can only have 20 mutations on a Dino, and mutations can directly raise a stat. This means you can have a ptera with 1k health that mutates and gives you a baby with 1.2k health which sounds great except now you just lost one of your mutations and you could have easily found a ptera with 1.2k to begin with. So feel free to breed away but if one of your lower level babies happens to mutate then I would recommend you spay/neuter them. 

[Aushegun]

I often will tame a low level dino with a cool color, into my bloodlines.  I just keep breeding until the offspring gets the color and the good stats.

[Xtrr]

14 hours ago, Aushegun said:

I often will tame a low level dino with a cool color, into my bloodlines.  I just keep breeding until the offspring gets the color and the good stats.

That was my idea  these event colors are pretty cool lol

[Xtrr]

14 hours ago, Logan96 said:

Breeding low levels into your line won't hinder your progress unless you receive a mutation. This is because you can only have 20 mutations on a Dino, and mutations can directly raise a stat. This means you can have a ptera with 1k health that mutates and gives you a baby with 1.2k health which sounds great except now you just lost one of your mutations and you could have easily found a ptera with 1.2k to begin with. So feel free to breed away but if one of your lower level babies happens to mutate then I would recommend you spay/neuter them. 

Gotcha, so mutations are the main thing to watch out for when using low levels. 

[Rogero]

4 hours ago, Xtrr said:

Gotcha, so mutations are the main thing to watch out for when using low levels. 

Well after a while its almost no idea taming high level dinos to breed with as your mutaded stats is so high, faster to tame low and ofc only keep mutation if in good side/stat.

Then there is the debate if to keep different stats in separated lines until time to merge, that is maybe better if only after a couple stats, say dmg and hp. If want all stats probably waste of time ( to bad at calculating).

[Cymas]

The main reason to use low level tames in very advanced breeding is to get around the mutation cap. Currently once a dino has capped mutations (20/20 on both sides) it cannot mutate any more. However, you can continue breeding for mutations with a clean, unmutated dino. Your chances of getting a mutation are halved, because the clean dino needs to successfully mutate the mutated dino's stats, but it's still possible. This is how you end up with superbred animals like Bert's rexes. Using low level tames is for a few reasons: the stats on the clean dino don't matter, low levels take very little time and resources, and on officials in particular you may end up with a hundred or more of them to increase the speed at which you get the mutations; since the rate is halved, the solution is to simply breed more.

Another reason specific to officials is the hard cap on dino levels; animals are capped at level 450 and will be force despawned on server restart if they surpass that level. The easiest way to avoid the cap is by dropping the points on stats that don't matter such as speed, food, and oxygen; dependent on the animal of course. For example, on boss rexes literally the only two stats that matter are HP and melee, so you could breed out all of the other stats in order to maximize their usable stats and continue mutating and pushing them higher without worrying about the cap, since you also need to take into account the cap includes the 73 level ups they get on top of their base stats.

If you're not playing on official servers, this is much less of an issue. I'm on single player and stacking muts on my rexes, but I only need 1 pair for each stat because of how I set up my breeding rates. I also don't have to worry about my dino levels being capped, so I simply started with perfect stat pairs to make it easier to spot mutations. If I breed out anything it would just be speed since that stat does nothing, but it's not necessary for me at all.

And as someone brought up already, Ark's rule of cool is the prettier the animal, the lower its level. I definitely tame low levels from time to time for the specific purpose of breeding their colors into my stat lines. I may yet do it with my boss rexes, I have quite possibly the ugliest base rex colors possible and I kind of hope these ones die off over time at the bosses so I can replace them with prettier animals lol.

[Xtrr]

So in the case where I have a mother father dino with say... 0/20  1042803/20 , and I were to mate them with there kids or something. Would it be possible for color mutations to occur ?

[yekrucifixion187]

8 minutes ago, Xtrr said:

So in the case where I have a mother father dino with say... 0/20  1042803/20 , and I were to mate them with there kids or something. Would it be possible for color mutations to occur ?

If the father was 0/20 1042803/20 he would be considered locked up. If the mother is 10/20 9/20 she'd be considered 19/20 and would have a chance to mutate the baby no matter the fathers lineage.

[l18471524]

The main reason for using low level taming in advanced breeding is to avoid the mutation upper limit.Currently, once the upper limit of dinosaur mutations (20/20 on both sides) is reached, no further mutations can be made.

[Xtrr]

Alrighty, so to get the clear point on adding color to breeding line, you would mate your strongest (female or male) with the color dino, then have the offspring breed with the parent dino until it inhabits the stats of the strong parent(s) ?

[Rogero]

24 minutes ago, Xtrr said:

Alrighty, so to get the clear point on adding color to breeding line, you would mate your strongest (female or male) with the color dino, then have the offspring breed with the parent dino until it inhabits the stats of the strong parent(s) ?

Breed strong with color till you get lucky with stats and color.

[Logan96]

On October 26, 2019 at 9:43 PM, yekrucifixion187 said:

If the father was 0/20 1042803/20 he would be considered locked up. If the mother is 10/20 9/20 she'd be considered 19/20 and would have a chance to mutate the baby no matter the fathers lineage.

I believe he could also breed the father/offspring with a clean unmutated female to clean up that mutation pool on the fathers side correct? (Assuming that the high mutation count is the result of interbreeding mutated pairs together) That way he can continue his line with a possible 1/20 or whatever the real mutation number is on the fathers side.

 

On October 26, 2019 at 9:32 PM, Xtrr said:

So in the case where I have a mother father dino with say... 0/20  1042803/20 , and I were to mate them with there kids or something. Would it be possible for color mutations to occur ?

Just quoted you so that you can take a look at this before you deem that male useless. Once players are happy with their Dino's they will start breeding them all together to maximize eggs but this process will exponentially increase that mutation number which is what you are seeing on that male. However I believe you can reverse engineer the process relatively easily to figure out the true mutation number behind that male. The reason this is important is because you may potentially have a 20/20 mutated father and assuming that the previous breeders knew what they were doing something like that could save you some serious time In building up your lineage. 

[yekrucifixion187]

1 hour ago, Logan96 said:

I believe he could also breed the father/offspring with a clean unmutated female to clean up that mutation pool on the fathers side correct? (Assuming that the high mutation count is the result of interbreeding mutated pairs together) That way he can continue his line with a possible 1/20 or whatever the real mutation number is on the fathers side.

I have heard of the mute count getting so big that the number goes negative but never dropping the mute count.

Breeding with a 0/20 female just opens up the chance for more mutations. 

If the father has (I'll lower the number in this case) 1200/20 mutations and then he breeds with a 0/20 female, you'll either get a baby with 1200/20 (no mute), 1201/20 (1 mute), 1202/20 (2 mutes) or possibly 1203/20 (3 mutes) on the patrilineal side and 0/20 on the matrilineal side. It won't revert to or show the true mutation count. 

[Logan96]

Bummer, I guess that father Dino is sort of a wild card then. Anyways @Xtrr it's worth noting that when your Dino's mutate the color will also change so don't spend too much time breeding for colors early on in your lineage.