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question about mutations

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question about mutations

when going for a 20/20m, 20/20p creature is it possible to make sure all 40 mutations are for the same stat or do they have to be 2 separate stats?

i was just reading about it and the way someone worded it confused me a bit.

Edited by GameFreak

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You can keep them seperate.

Just kill anything that's not the mutation you are looking for and only combine once you want to use.

Example; 

You want to breed 20 mutes into melee and 20 mutes into hp. You can;

Keep a male with the melee mute and only change him out when he produces another male with a new melee mute.

You can do the same with another male with nothing but hp mutes.

Then when you want to combine produce a female or multiple with one of those stats and combine it with the male who has the other stat. Eventually you'll get a baby with both stats. 

That baby (if no other mutes happened) will have lineage that reads 20/20p and 20/20m.

So you just have to keep the 2 mutes seperate.

When I started to work on stats for my Argy's other than weight, I had a male with stam, a male with hp, and a male with melee too. 

I then rotated those males (which actually keeps breeding timers lower as there is a penalty when breeding the same male with the same female consecutively) whenever I bred. 

I finished before capping either side but had 13 wt mutes, 1 st mute, 2 melee mutes, and 2 hp mutes. I bred those together and ended up with a baby that read 16/20p and 2/20m. If I would have bred that baby with a clean female the next baby would have read as 18/20p 0/20m. 

I hope that answers your question.

Edited by yekrucifixion187

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We use hundreds of non mut females and then breed them with the male of our choice (for whatever stat we want to improve) with the goal of hitting a male with the mutated stat. 

We breed every two days currently for HP and then melee on rexes. So every four days we increase the stat for melee and Hp. Then at some point you mix them together. Many times we hit females as well which is good to mix back with the other stats. 

If possible, I recommend mixing the other stats into the non mut line so that they’re guaranteed to hit (oxygen/food/weight/stamina). That way you have a full line of female non mut breeders with identical stats. Event colors are a good addition as well since they don’t take mutations to hit. We have different Easter tamed males that we’ve used to create non mut females that are 2, 3 or even 4 color. When we get the color and stats right on a non mut female, we clone it as much as we want and then add it to the breeding pile. 

With extinction, you can feasibly start up a breeding program in a week if you have 15-20 cloners and a good base female to use, assuming the dino is cheap enough to clone and you have enough element. Our rex breeders despawned after extinction came out so we had to start over and it only took us 10 days to do so. 

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1 hour ago, GameFreak said:

oh crud, i ment is it possible to get all 40 mutations to be on the same stat or does it have to be 20 for one stat and 20 for another? (ill fix the original post)

i dont think it can be 40 for one in that way but i just thought id ask.

Yes it can. 

I believe you can mutate the same stat 255 times (which couldn't be reached on official since the dino cap is 450 so it would get deleted). 

These 500+ melee Giga's are a prime example. 

Even if the Giga line started at 250 melee (probably not since that would be an epic tamed stat), each mutation only adds 10% to that melee. To reach 500 it would require 25 melee mutations. 

These 1000+ melee Rexes and 1300 wt Argies are in the same boat. 

@BertNoobians Rex's started at, I believe, a modest 385% melee and 11kish hp. They now hatch (last update I read) 31k hp, 1100+ melee. 

Rex melee goes up by approx. 12% per mute, which would put that Rex melee at about 60 mutations alone (quick math, don't crucify me)

You just need to breed the dino with the mute with  a partner that has 19/20 or less mutations on its lineage to have that chance.

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i know about how to get more than just 20 mutations on one side, what i was asking was if you were able to get all 40 of a 20/20m, 20/20p creature to be nothing but say melee? i dont think you can get it that way but i know how to go past the 40 limit in general. sorry if it was unclear.

Edited by GameFreak

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if female has a new mut to 400 and a male has a new mut to 400, and if you mate them once they are grown, the baby is 400, the mut counter stacks but not the melee.

if one side of the male is on 20, and its other side 0/20, the male itself will not create mutations anymore. it all then comes from the females. but they are 2 or 3 times more rare but they can cause a mut on a stat in the male.

no matter how you look at it, you are stuck on the mutcap of 20 muts. no matter if this is in the male or female.
19/20 1/20 is also mutcapped since its the sum of both sides that count.

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You can’t combine mutations on the same stat.   It’s either or,  you keep the counts because the counters work like the turnstiles at Disney land,  when a mutation hits , it gets counted.   After that,  it could be that same mutation going through the turnstile over and over again increasing the count without ever improving the stat more.

say I start with 400melee,  I mutate it to 500.  Then I take another one with 500 melee,  the baby will have 500 melee,  not 600.  The count on the baby will be the mom and dads count combined.  Counts are not independent of the stats ,  stats are independent of the count.   The counter means nothing to what stat you get or how much it will be,  it only means a mutation passed through the breeding cycle and gets left behind like cigarette butts at the beach.

 

the counts only change in one of two ways (or both at the same time),  two parents mate and their mutation counters add together,  the grand children will then see dads counter as grandmas+grandpas totaled up.  The other way the counter changes is when a mutation occurred,  this could lead to 1-3 added to a counter.   

And just like at Disney land,  the turnstile records don’t zero out but the people who went in could leave at anytime,  same with the stats,  you keep the counter,  but might lose the stat.  

Edited by GrumpyBear

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A good way to think about it @GameFreak, is that the mutation is instantly created and destroyed.  The reason I say that is because if a mutation occurs, it increases whatever stat by 2, changes a random color zone, raises the level by 2, increments the mutation counter, and then ceases to exist.  The new stat/color/level/mut-count is what you see, and the mutation ceases to be a discrete component of the make-up of the dino.

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5 hours ago, GameFreak said:

i know about how to get more than just 20 mutations on one side, what i was asking was if you were able to get all 40 of a 20/20m, 20/20p creature to be nothing but say melee? i dont think you can get it that way but i know how to go past the 40 limit in general. sorry if it was unclear.

Well, technically you can have 20 of the same stat on both parents, but they won't add together, just like regular stats don't add together. You get the father or the mother, and maybe a new mutation, but the parents never add together.

You can't get ( WildHP + 20 mutations of HP + 20 mutations of HP ) from a single breeding of two parents with 20 mutations each, the mutations will not add together.

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15 hours ago, BertNoobians said:

i started at 46 pts on both hp and melee, which is 11k22 and 396 melee.

now 31900hp 1149md, sounds high but some other people have waay higher then me.

PVE PS4 rexes started at 11k and 414md. Currently sitting at 28k HP and 1060 melee released on market. 

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15 hours ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

Yes it can. 

I believe you can mutate the same stat 255 times (which couldn't be reached on official since the dino cap is 450 so it would get deleted). 

These 500+ melee Giga's are a prime example. 

Even if the Giga line started at 250 melee (probably not since that would be an epic tamed stat), each mutation only adds 10% to that melee. To reach 500 it would require 25 melee mutations. 

These 1000+ melee Rexes and 1300 wt Argies are in the same boat. 

@BertNoobians Rex's started at, I believe, a modest 385% melee and 11kish hp. They now hatch (last update I read) 31k hp, 1100+ melee. 

Rex melee goes up by approx. 12% per mute, which would put that Rex melee at about 60 mutations alone (quick math, don't crucify me)

You just need to breed the dino with the mute with  a partner that has 19/20 or less mutations on its lineage to have that chance.

PVE PS4 gigas started at 265 tame melee. Currently sitting at 525/535 with 565/575 being grown I believe. 

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1 hour ago, flamron said:

PVE PS4 gigas started at 265 tame melee. Currently sitting at 525/535 with 565/575 being grown I believe. 

I think that 265 was spawned though. I had an unnatural red 265 from that line with 0/0. 

I was talking about actual tame. Highest natural tame I have seen was 245. Not saying it can't be done but I haven't personally seen it unless I have.

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1 hour ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

I think that 265 was spawned though. I had an unnatural red 265 from that line with 0/0. 

I was talking about actual tame. Highest natural tame I have seen was 245. Not saying it can't be done but I haven't personally seen it unless I have.

I have 285 clean on giga melee on pc official.   There was 325 clean a long while back but the owner lost it to ark.

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23 minutes ago, WhiteCast said:

So on official server, if you tame a rex with base hp 10k, what would be the max hp amount you could end up after all possible hp-mutations?

And to develop even better hp rex, the only option is to find higher base hp rex wild?

That's a big question.  In the strictest terms, the highest attainable HP on official would be 255 stat-points, or 57,200 HP.  Of course, the rest of the stats would have to be garbage in terms of point-values in order to not have the Rex be deleted when the server restarts or the Rex is un-cryo'ed (whichever comes first).  The hard cap on official is 450, meaning any dino that exceeds that is erased.  The max stat-point value for a single stat is clamped to 255 points for all 7 categories (HP/stam/O2/food/weight/melee/speed), so with 255 being lower than 450, it is theoretically possible to get a 100% bonafide MAXIMUM hp amount, hard-limited by the game, of 255 stat-points which again translates to 57,200 HP at birth.  But like I said, for the other 5 stats there would be a total of roughly 120 points left, not counting speed.

EDIT for clarity:  Max level of dino on official to not be deleted (at server restart/during uncryo'ing):  449.  You can level a dinosaur 73 times after gaining 3550000 experience total, so subtract 73 from 449 for rough max BIRTH level of 376.  So, max birth level is ~376 meaning 225 minus 376 gives us ~121 points to divvy up between stam/O2/food/weight/melee.  Now I might be one level off, like your dino can be level 450 (instead of level 449) and not get deleted, in which case shift birth level to 377 and you then have 122 points to spend.  I've tested (on official) with a level 451 and it definitely despawned with zero entry in the tribelog as I un-cryo'ed it.

To develop better Rex HP, you breed and mutate your best Rex HP stat, OR go tame-hunting and cross your fingers that you get a good HP at KO and a big chunk of the bonus tame levels to HP.

Edited by TheDonn

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2 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

I have 285 clean on giga melee on pc official.   There was 325 clean a long while back but the owner lost it to ark.

325 clean?  Holy crap Grumpy...  That is madness.

I mean, Gigas are far past that on official, but still.  To have that tame.

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9 minutes ago, TheDonn said:

That's a big question.  In the strictest terms, the highest attainable HP on official would be 255 stat-points, or 57,200 HP.  Of course, the rest of the stats would have to be absolute garbage in terms of point-values in order to not have the Rex be deleted when the server restarts or the Rex is un-cryo'ed (whichever comes first).  The hard cap on official is 450, meaning any dino that exceeds that is erased.  The max stat-point value for a single stat is clamped to 255 points for all 7 categories (HP/stam/O2/food/weight/melee/speed), so with 255 being lower than 450, it is theoretically possible to get a 100% bonafide MAXIMUM hp amount, hard-limited by the game, of 255 stat-points which again translates to 57,200 HP at birth.  But like I said, for the other 5 stats there would be a total of roughly 120 points left, not counting speed.

To develop better Rex HP, you breed and mutate your best Rex HP stat, OR go tame-hunting and cross your fingers that you get a good HP at KO and a big chunk of the bonus tame levels to HP.

Thanks, that really cleared things up for me!

And if I understood right, the stats of the female rexs don't matter if you are aiming just for the hp mutations with high hp male rex?

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Just now, WhiteCast said:

Thanks, that really cleared things up for me!

And if I understood right, the stats of the female rexs don't matter if you are aiming just for the hp mutations with high hp male rex?

The STATS don't matter, but if the mutated Male is over or at 20/20 mutations, the Female will need to be under 20/20 so IT can mutate the Male's stat.

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17 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

I have 285 clean on giga melee on pc official.   There was 325 clean a long while back but the owner lost it to ark.

Pretty impressive. Giga's were not my forte. My friend gave me a 50/50 295/325 egg which I raised over last years Extra Life event. All the Giga I ever needed. Even on my single player worlds I rarely tame Giga's and just use Theri's for meat runs and OSD drops.

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2 minutes ago, TheDonn said:

The STATS don't matter, but if the mutated Male is over or at 20/20 mutations, the Female will need to be under 20/20 so IT can mutate the Male's stat.

Oh, so if you breed a male rex with those 20/20 mutations, would the baby basically get 21/20 mutations for hp given that the female has under 20/20 mutations?

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21 minutes ago, WhiteCast said:

Oh, so if you breed a male rex with those 20/20 mutations, would the baby basically get 21/20 mutations for hp given that the female has under 20/20 mutations?

21/20 total, but only if the Male was 20/20 and the Female was 0/20. The baby would then have 20/20 Patrilineal and 1/20 Matrilineal for a new total of 21/20.

EDIT:  That is to say, if the Female has less than 20/20 it can still mutate the 20/20 Male's stats, while it has less than 20/20 total mutations of course.  It is pretty easy to get over 20/20 stacked up unfortunately!

Edited by TheDonn

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15 hours ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

I think that 265 was spawned though. I had an unnatural red 265 from that line with 0/0. 

I was talking about actual tame. Highest natural tame I have seen was 245. Not saying it can't be done but I haven't personally seen it unless I have.

Agreed. I do believe that was spawn tamed. We tamed a 245 melee on Valguero - which is as high as we’d ever seen. We also have a 1002 weight giga on Valguero which is 30lbs more than I’ve ever seen. Gigas are underdeveloped for sure on tamed stats. Could probably push over 19k HP if you tamed enough of them 

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