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22 hours ago, caleb68 said:

i think its more of a point of case of what everyone else is saying, pvp is not for solo players. with the current state of the pvp servers and the long established mega tribes, finding that perfect little hiding hole for your mini bases is pretty much impossible on the servers now, and most of the wipes, they aren't while your online, its while your offline, so I can totally understand the persons frustration, trying myself to get back into pvp as a solo player and having consistant wipes over and over again while  offline, never seeing a single player attempt to attack while I was on.   If i had to compare ark pvp to any other game far as how the majority of players are, it would be Rust.  I hadn't been wiped as many times as I had in ark pvp while offline not even in that game, and that games player base is really greats for offline raids.

So no, Its not always the weak minded, or those who melt in pressure,  I would of been more out for it if they players actually had the balls to attack while i was online, no, it was purely the knowledge of knowing, those many hours spent taming dino's and any breeding you had done would be wiped by the next time you logged in, be it a day or a hour.  Its more of a level of "how many times do i want to play from scratch".

If more pvp players were brave enough to attack people while they were online, perhaps it would be fun, and a reward for the player being if they get wiped or not, but thats just not the case when it comes to pvp, don't believe me? look at youtube, the majority of 'videos' for pvp are offline raids.

I agree that there is a lot of offline raiding but I don't necessary think its all a case of people staking out a base and waiting for them to go offline. A lot of it, certainly in my case is just opportunity. If I come across a base and it looks easy to get into, I'm going to attack it regardless of whether the owner is home or not. That's just how it is. When fighting larger groups though it is definitely a valid tactic to attack when they are at their weakest.

The other issue that encourages offline raiding is the popcorning of loot. If some big groups raids my base when I am online, I will definitely make sure before I go down I will take my loot with me. It makes no sense not to deny to your enemies your loot. That said of course it also means that its a lot more profitable to hit a base when the owners aren't there since you know you will be getting the loot. The only way I see this being fixed is Wildcard implementing a sort of raid declaration zone that an attacking tribe can declare in an area, where anything in that zone when dropped has a much longer expire timer.

There is a lot of rubbish on youtube when it comes to ARK. The majority of the videos as you say are offline raiding by youtubers with these big followings. When they aren't filming themselves offline raiding they are instead in in a pack of 15+ attacking some tiny tribe. Also you'll notice a lot of these videos are heavily edited, you only ever see the guy doing headshots, never missing or dieing. I wouldn't pay much to attention to streamers and the like either, they tend to nearly always be in large tribes where others do the heavy lifting.

 

Edited by ForzaProiettile
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11 hours ago, chris282 said:

Can't speak for the megatribe servers, but I'm having an absolute blast soloing on Small Tribes. The advice that turned it around for me was an old post where someone suggested spending time living without a base. It gets you out of the habit of stockpiling, forces you to concentrate on what you actually need to survive, and keeps you mobile.

It's a pvp game where you start out massively outgunned, for sure, but it's not impossible to develop methods and tactics to counter that. If it's good enough for the Viet Cong, it's good enough for me, as my old granny used to say.

Absolutely. I've made that suggestion several times to folks on here. Players should live within their means. I see all too often some solo or 2 man tribe player(s) building a very large base that stands out like anything and can never be properly defended. Why bother, its a waste of time. You are far better off with a couple 1x2s spread about in the jungle with no turrets. If one gets raided no big deal you got 5 more out there ready to be used.

Edited by ForzaProiettile
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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 10:16 AM, Mavrick88 said:

Totally agree. PVP is not for solo. You should have a set of friends or an established tribe to join. Otherwise, you will get your butt handed to you. PVE is the way to go if you just want to build and raise dinos. Both are fun with their ups and downs. If you are solo playing, go PVE and you will not be frustrated.

What I would like is a few PVP servers that get reset every 1st of the month or so. Everyone gets reset back to nothing and you have to rebuild. That would be interesting and fun. Some other games already do that. I'm not saying do this to EVERY PVP server, just a set of new servers that this happens on.

No you can do PVP solo but its not a playstyle suitable for new players. It's really something that only a veteran player should attempt to do and even then you really have to know the game backwards. It is literally the most challenging way to play the game, it's basically a mode for expert players. In just about every battle you will be at a severe numbers disadvantage and you have to work much harder then other tribes/players to farm and stay alive.

It would be like signing up for the police force and then on your first day on the job you volunteer to storm a house filled with terrorists. Not a smart move.

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4 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I agree that there is a lot of offline raiding but I don't necessary think its all a case of people staking out a base and waiting for them to go offline.
….
I wouldn't pay much to attention to streamers and the like either, they tend to nearly always be in large tribes where others do the heavy lifting.

(they can backtrack to your post If they want to read all of it)
In my case, that's exactly what happened, every day I played, no one ever came around or if they did they made sure to stay out of sight, and every time I logged in, base gone / dinos gone.  I would of welcomed online raiding but, it never once happened once, it was always offline.

youtube was just given as a example, showing that there is more 'popularity' even with viewers with offline raiding then online raiding.

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4 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I agree that there is a lot of offline raiding but I don't necessary think its all a case of people staking out a base and waiting for them to go offline.

That's exactly how the vast majority of Pv"P" works in this game, ARK is 95%+ PvB (Player-vs-Base) not really Player-vs-Player at all, that is the exact problem that keeps so many people from being interested in ARK's version of Pv"P".

And don't pretend that it's different for big/alpha tribes. I've been in alpha tribes on multiple different PvP servers and that's exactly how it works. Even when alpha are weakening a tribe to prevent them from becoming a threat, they always try to do it when the target is offline so that the raid doesn't leave any evidence in the target's tribe log. It's not because people are inherently cruel, it's because that's the most efficient way to raid in ARK so of course players are going to try to do whatever is most efficient. Most of the raiding in ARK is actually a first-person tower defense game, not really PvP at all. You figure out the weak spots in the defenses and invade the base through those weak spots. No matter how people try to justify it, that's really not PvP, it's PvB.

All of that would be fine if not for the fact that it's much, much easier to destroy than to build. If you are good at PvB you can wreck weeks of work in minutes, wreck months of work in hours, it's simply too easy to raid in ARK. Considering the fact that the game is 95%+ PvB it should be much harder to raid than it is, that's a fundamental philosophy flaw in the game that drives a huge number of people away from PvP. ARK was originally conceived as a PvP game, but the style of PvP in ARK is such a wasteful time sink that players immediately started clamoring for PvE in large numbers, and since the very beginning of ARK the great majority of players have always prefer PvE instead. And that is because the mind-set behind ARK PvP is fundamentally flawed.

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24 minutes ago, caleb68 said:

(they can backtrack to your post If they want to read all of it)
In my case, that's exactly what happened, every day I played, no one ever came around or if they did they made sure to stay out of sight, and every time I logged in, base gone / dinos gone.  I would of welcomed online raiding but, it never once happened once, it was always offline.

youtube was just given as a example, showing that there is more 'popularity' even with viewers with offline raiding then online raiding.

My advice would be to build small and spread out your stuff. I am in a small tribe atm and that's what I do, it works quite well.

With regards to the youtube videos I don't think its a case of popularity rather misleading titles and the like. Most of them videos aren't super "Super Fred Does Offline Raiding" but rather "Super Fred Does PVP and Solos Enemy Base".

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4 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I agree that there is a lot of offline raiding but I don't necessary think its all a case of people staking out a base and waiting for them to go offline. A lot of it, certainly in my case is just opportunity. If I come across a base and it looks easy to get into, I'm going to attack it regardless of whether the owner is home or not. That's just how it is. When fighting larger groups though it is definitely a valid tactic to attack when they are at their weakest.

The other issue that encourages offline raiding is the popcorning of loot. If some big groups raids my base when I am online, I will definitely make sure before I go down I will take my loot with me. It makes no sense not to deny to your enemies your loot. That said of course it also means that its a lot more profitable to hit a base when the owners aren't there since you know you will be getting the loot. The only way I see this being fixed is Wildcard implementing a sort of raid declaration zone that an attacking tribe can declare in an area, where anything in that zone when dropped has a much longer expire timer.

There is a lot of rubbish on youtube when it comes to ARK. The majority of the videos as you say are offline raiding by youtubers with these big followings. When they aren't filming themselves offline raiding they are instead in in a pack of 15+ attacking some tiny tribe. Also you'll notice a lot of these videos are heavily edited, you only ever see the guy doing headshots, never missing or dieing. I wouldn't pay much to attention to streamers and the like either, they tend to nearly always be in large tribes where others do the heavy lifting.

 

I agree 100% if I've prepared let's say 3 hrs to raid a base and I start the raid if I notice nobody  is online I'm definitely  not stopping  and packing up hahaha I'm going to continue "" offline  raids are the most profitable ...I myself have never been offlined only to me being  a no lifer and  having  insomnia hehe works out pretty well :)

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I say new players have more of a chance than us vets...like for instance  one may do beach sweeps an see a level 27 toon building a thatch house  and give him tools or whatever .but that same guy sees a level 135 too building a thatch house insta death lol I would  100% kill the 135 toon without even saying hello and I myself would kill the lvl 27 toon too but that's my playstyle not everyone plays the same. 

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53 minutes ago, Pipinghot said:

That's exactly how the vast majority of Pv"P" works in this game, ARK is 95%+ PvB (Player-vs-Base) not really Player-vs-Player at all, that is the exact problem that keeps so many people from being interested in ARK's version of Pv"P".

And don't pretend that it's different for big/alpha tribes. I've been in alpha tribes on multiple different PvP servers and that's exactly how it works. Even when alpha are weakening a tribe to prevent them from becoming a threat, they always try to do it when the target is offline so that the raid doesn't leave any evidence in the target's tribe log. It's not because people are inherently cruel, it's because that's the most efficient way to raid in ARK so of course players are going to try to do whatever is most efficient. Most of the raiding in ARK is actually a first-person tower defense game, not really PvP at all. You figure out the weak spots in the defenses and invade the base through those weak spots. No matter how people try to justify it, that's really not PvP, it's PvB.

All of that would be fine if not for the fact that it's much, much easier to destroy than to build. If you are good at PvB you can wreck weeks of work in minutes, wreck months of work in hours, it's simply too easy to raid in ARK. Considering the fact that the game is 95%+ PvB it should be much harder to raid than it is, that's a fundamental philosophy flaw in the game that drives a huge number of people away from PvP. ARK was originally conceived as a PvP game, but the style of PvP in ARK is such a wasteful time sink that players immediately started clamoring for PvE in large numbers, and since the very beginning of ARK the great majority of players have always prefer PvE instead. And that is because the mind-set behind ARK PvP is fundamentally flawed.

I never said large/alpha tribes didn't offline raid. I've bee in several of them and I can say they most definitely do offline raid especially when fighter other large tribes. In fact a lot of the planning for these raids comes down to discussions revolving around what is the best time to hit them which is directly based of stats collected as to when there are fewer of them online.

In the last large tribe I was in I helped develop a bit of custom software that was similar to Battlemetrics but more advanced called the Raid Master. You would set it to watch a server over the course of a week or more and then it would give you a readout as to what was the best time to theoretically strike that server down to a specific 15minute time frame. This was based upon what time there was the least likelihood of players being online broken down into 15minutes chunks recorded for the entirety of the track. It proved to be worth its weight in gold, on one  particular raid we had an approx window of about 1 hour and 30 minutes when we knew that no one would be online. It worked out perfectly.

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36 minutes ago, Lycan187u said:

I say new players have more of a chance than us vets...like for instance  one may do beach sweeps an see a level 27 toon building a thatch house  and give him tools or whatever .but that same guy sees a level 135 too building a thatch house insta death lol I would  100% kill the 135 toon without even saying hello and I myself would kill the lvl 27 toon too but that's my playstyle not everyone plays the same. 

Yep absolutely. New players/low level players are definitely seen as less threatening to alpha tribes. One of the techniques I have learned over the years is that portraying yourself as a noob, PVE player or a roleplayer can be very rewarding on Official servers. If you setting up on a server for your farm tribe and want a safe place to store loot obtained from other servers, you need to blend in so to speak, one of the best ways to do that is too render yourself harmless.

Build a dumb looking base complete with signposts and 'welcome' signs and the like. Tame stuff like Raptors and trikes and what not. I've built some truly hideous looking bases, full noob looking bases with random walls and all that. Then throw in some faux community spirit, talk often and politely in global chat, if the alpha tribe comes around act all subservient to them.

If you do this for the most part other established tribes on the server will generally (depending on your server pick), leave you alone. If they think you just have built some stone monstrosity in the middle of no where that's not blocking any resources, they will see you as a harmless noob that can act as a lookout for invasions. Typically what will happen is in the first week or two on there, one of the tribes will stealth raid you to see what you may or may not have in the base. If you present them with cloth hats sorted neatly in boxes they won't bother to come back anytime soon. The trick though is hiding your loot amongst the rubbish. I've successfully stored it on indoor dinos, under false floors and on Pavlovias. You could also use a vault but they will attract more attention and in any case will hardly make much difference if the enemy wants your loot.

Another trick you can do is to make your base look raided. This only works for bases that you don't actively live at such as small outposts. I'll typically rough it up a bit make it look damaged, remove doors and things and generally give it the appearance that when they stick head through the door, they conclude within the first 5 seconds that it's been raided. 

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45 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I never said large/alpha tribes didn't offline raid.

That's true, and I never accused you of saying that.

What you said was, " I agree that there is a lot of offline raiding but I don't necessary think its all a case of people staking out a base and waiting for them to go offline", and that's not an accurate description of what happens during normal game play. Most Pv"P" explicitly involves doing exactly that, "staking out a base and waiting for them to go offline", that's how the vast majority of base raids begin. A tribe plans a raid, they log in at the planned time, and then they discover that one or more tribe members from their intended target is still online and then everyone waits around until those people log off. That's is the most common description of how base raiding actually work.

There are sometimes spontaneous raids, and there are sometimes scheduled raids that take place even with the targets are online, but the vast majority of base raids are specifically scheduled to take place when the targets are offline. More than 95% of raiding in ARK is PvB, even when it's alpha tribes doing the raiding.

45 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

In the last large tribe I was in I helped develop a bit of custom software that was similar to Battlemetrics but more advanced called the Raid Master. You would set it to watch a server over the course of a week or more and then it would give you a readout as to what was the best time to theoretically strike that server down to a specific 15minute time frame. This was based upon what time there was the least likelihood of players being online broken down into 15minutes chunks recorded for the entirety of the track. It proved to be worth its weight in gold, on one  particular raid we had an approx window of about 1 hour and 30 minutes when we knew that no one would be online. It worked out perfectly.

That's an excellent example of the problem. The fact that 95%+ of raiding in ARK is not PvP at all, but really PvB, is what ends up driving away most of the people who were interested in PvP in ARK. If ARK PvP was actual, real PvP then more people would enjoy it and more people would do it, but sadly it's really PvB.

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5 hours ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Think I saw one or maybe two wild dinos in that video. Ya, that's normal.

I did use those methods on official on release so i was able to do metal base on first day of release. Try it yourself before. The dude made the videos on local for convenience, but, picking notes with movement speed is something really easy to do and yes it can bring you above 70 on the same day. On PvE it is easy since no 1 will attack you, and PvP there's no more land bases on islands anymore... so... 🙂

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On 9/17/2019 at 8:29 AM, cyborg70 said:

I allways wonder why people call offline raiding/destroying PvP...

Thats Pvpassive Dino or Pvstone structure. You also can place your C4 at any rock in the world and blast it to the sky thats the same fun like offline destroying...

If you offline raid a base with hundreds of turrets and Velos thats something other, but destroying a little stone base offline?

If you are griping about your dinky little stone base getting offline raided, its not like you would survive an online raid either. Like come on, on main officials I dont raid bobs, but when I do its while i am zooming around in a level 440 mana, with whale kit of an endgame tryhard. Do you think a stone bob would have any better luck if he were online ?

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12 hours ago, Malko said:

I did use those methods on official on release so i was able to do metal base on first day of release. Try it yourself before. The dude made the videos on local for convenience, but, picking notes with movement speed is something really easy to do and yes it can bring you above 70 on the same day. On PvE it is easy since no 1 will attack you, and PvP there's no more land bases on islands anymore... so... 🙂

It's very easy to go from 0-50 in an hour or two without any notes if you know what you are doing. I put my points into melee and weight. Melee collects you res faster, weight lets you carry more. You could get the notes but I prefer to save them for late game when I am ready to abuse them for some serious XP with the right setup.

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9 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

It's very easy to go from 0-50 in an hour or two without any notes if you know what you are doing. I put my points into melee and weight. Melee collects you res faster, weight lets you carry more. You could get the notes but I prefer to save them for late game when I am ready to abuse them for some serious XP with the right setup.

On ARKPoc my strat is to make the first character with notes, tame a low level therizino, then gather a ton of fiber and hide. After that hit a x4 and x2 note and start spamming rafts. Collect wood as your building rafts. It gives so much XP that you become  level 100 in few hours. A bit tedious, but only viable way to get to heavy turrets within the 30 day of ARKPoc i know of.

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