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You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.


Sevenhell

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You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

The fact that official pvp consists of pretty much build up, get wiped, repeat is truly bull****.  For those of you whom say this is the way it’s supposed to be that is a lie.  Do you really think that new players are gonna come to a game where all they can expect is to have everything taken from them on a regular basis?  I know people are gonna say well they would just quit the game after a few months of playing but the truth of the matter is if this game was ran the way it should be then we wouldn’t have  a problem of servers being empty with only decaying structures on them.  I have been playing this game since the beginning and just recently found the forums after getting tired of being solo and grinding it out by myself and constantly getting wiped.  In the end I have seen many a game come and go and it seems that if wildcard doesn’t do something to truly fix the pvp side of this game to where we can play pvp, raid, get raided, and not totally wipe or get wiped by other players then this game is gonna die before the last batch of dlc is even released.

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1 hour ago, Sevenhell said:

You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

The fact that official pvp consists of pretty much build up, get wiped, repeat is truly bull****.  For those of you whom say this is the way it’s supposed to be that is a lie.  Do you really think that new players are gonna come to a game where all they can expect is to have everything taken from them on a regular basis?  I know people are gonna say well they would just quit the game after a few months of playing but the truth of the matter is if this game was ran the way it should be then we wouldn’t have  a problem of servers being empty with only decaying structures on them.  I have been playing this game since the beginning and just recently found the forums after getting tired of being solo and grinding it out by myself and constantly getting wiped.  In the end I have seen many a game come and go and it seems that if wildcard doesn’t do something to truly fix the pvp side of this game to where we can play pvp, raid, get raided, and not totally wipe or get wiped by other players then this game is gonna die before the last batch of dlc is even released.

Your fault for playing solo in a game designed for mass group play. They’re called tribes and alliances for a reason.

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15 minutes ago, TimeBomb2003 said:

that's just the way the playerbase acts, nothing wildcard can do about it

Actually they can.  If they would just program the game to where the game recognizes structures such as bases and have it where if part of that base is destroyed by an enemy player, say a wall or a door.  Starting the next you should go into what could be called raid protection, where for the next 7 days you are granted a grace period where your base cannot be damaged, but have it set up where if you damage another players base during this time you lose that protection.  Also have it not protect you from getting attacked outside your base and having your items on you taken.

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24 minutes ago, SaltyMonkey said:

Your fault for playing solo in a game designed for mass group play. Their called tribes and alliances for a reason.

That is one of the main reasons I joined the forums was to find a tribe to join.  As I am tired of playing solo.  Am on everyday grinding it out.  I’m only saying if people want this game to continue then the way pvp is ran needs to change to protect those people whom don’t have the time and effort we have invested into this game we do.  

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28 minutes ago, Sevenhell said:

You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

 

23 minutes ago, SaltyMonkey said:

Your fault for playing solo in a game designed for mass group play. Their called tribes and alliances for a reason.

 

22 minutes ago, TimeBomb2003 said:

that's just the way the playerbase acts, nothing wildcard can do about it

I will add:  There is no solution for PvPPvE provides a different experience, but unless you keep yourself pursuing neat builds/bosses/better tames and breeding lines, it might feel boring after a while if you crave action.

There isn't a middle-ground kind of experience either, sadly.  If it is a PvP server, you will be raided because either some streamer needs to put content of some SIKK PROFIT RAID or a SALTY RAIDED NOOB or GRIEFING A TRIBE, or because someone has a single good tame and some C4 and is hell-bent on just causing mayhem.  Or occasionally, there is a Tribe that is strategically wiping the entire server of everyone and spamming chat with, "This is my server lol" or, "lol oof kid" or that kind of tough-guy crap as they wipe people with wooden bases.

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1 hour ago, Sevenhell said:

You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

The fact that official pvp consists of pretty much build up, get wiped, repeat is truly bull****.  For those of you whom say this is the way it’s supposed to be that is a lie.  Do you really think that new players are gonna come to a game where all they can expect is to have everything taken from them on a regular basis?  I know people are gonna say well they would just quit the game after a few months of playing but the truth of the matter is if this game was ran the way it should be then we wouldn’t have  a problem of servers being empty with only decaying structures on them.  I have been playing this game since the beginning and just recently found the forums after getting tired of being solo and grinding it out by myself and constantly getting wiped.  In the end I have seen many a game come and go and it seems that if wildcard doesn’t do something to truly fix the pvp side of this game to where we can play pvp, raid, get raided, and not totally wipe or get wiped by other players then this game is gonna die before the last batch of dlc is even released.

You've been playing since the beginning so if we even discount EA, that's over 2 years. Despite all the destruction and wipes and rebuilds.

How is that not a good business model if you're still playing? Many others are still playing and many have been playing since EA. 

The population of players doesn't waver to much despite the constant wipes and rebuilds. 

Your logic is faulty.

(Edit: The original content of this game has already been released. So many people are still playing it they decided to expand it, hence new season pass, so again business is fine.)

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1 minute ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

You've been playing since the beginning so if we even discount EA, that's over 2 years. Despite all the destruction and wipes and rebuilds.

How is that not a good business model if you're still playing? Many others are still playing and many have been playing since EA. 

The population of players doesn't waver to much despite the constant wipes and rebuilds. 

Your logic is faulty.

Yes I have been playing since the beginning but if you really think the population of the game hasn’t went down since the beginning then you are mistaken.  I can remember a time where you couldn’t find a server with less that 35 people in it, now your lucky if you find half that.  Yes there are more servers and more maps and also all games lose players over time, but the key difference here is we are losing players from a broken system that needs to be reassessed and made better.  If not within the next few months to a year this game will die.  The reason I made this post is so that maybe just maybe we can actually have a conversation about ways to fix pvp so that we can attract new players to the game.  As without them there will be no new revenue stream for wildcard to use to make the game better.  Especially as they themselves have said the next season of dlc is the last one we are getting.  Once it everyone of us that loves this game buys it then that will be the end of this game if new players don’t continue to buy the game.  And they are only gonna buy the dlcs if they feel they are gonna get their moneys worth.    

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1 hour ago, Sevenhell said:

You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

The fact that official pvp consists of pretty much build up, get wiped, repeat is truly bull****.

If "Official PvP" was the only way to play ARK then you'd be right, but it's not, so you're not.

Official, Unofficial, PvP, PvE, solo, non-dedicated server, dedicated server, mods upon mods... there are many ways to play ARK, and that's what makes it a good business model.

If Official PvP in this game is too brutal for you, don't do it, find another mode to play the game that you enjoy more. There are so many ways to play ARK and make it fun for yourself, there's no excuse for blaming Official PvP for your problems.

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2 minutes ago, Sevenhell said:

Yes I have been playing since the beginning but if you really think the population of the game hasn’t went down since the beginning then you are mistaken.  I can remember a time where you couldn’t find a server with less that 35 people in it, now your lucky if you find half that.  Yes there are more servers and more maps and also all games lose players over time, but the key difference here is we are losing players from a broken system that needs to be reassessed and made better.  If not within the next few months to a year this game will die.  The reason I made this post is so that maybe just maybe we can actually have a conversation about ways to fix pvp so that we can attract new players to the game.  As without them there will be no new revenue stream for wildcard to use to make the game better.  Especially as they themselves have said the next season of dlc is the last one we are getting.  Once it everyone of us that loves this game buys it then that will be the end of this game if new players don’t continue to buy the game.  And they are only gonna buy the dlcs if they feel they are gonna get their moneys worth.    

I get what you're saying here but here's everything I seen since I've been playing this game;

Ark has been in danger of "dying" since EA yet here we are still playing

Mega tribes and mega tribe problems are the fixes they are currently focusing on

This forum is filled everyday with people who just bought the game

Ark had been, until recently, in the steam top 10 played for awhile (last I seen it was at 12)

PvE players are the bigger population and they have fixed many of the issues they faced (server cap) and are starting/continuing to work on other issues (mechanic griefing, pillar spam) for them. For a lot of those players the story is the draw so if they are expanding the story the largest player base will buy it.

Ark YouTubers (small percentage but relevant) are still averaging the same viewership they have for the past year. You do that if the content is still sought after for viewing because it is still a popular game. 

You are asking for a whole new level of coding from a company that still has faulty coding from EA in their game. 

Like you said, of course games lose population over time but this game is still a top played game 4 years into its existence despite many bugs and we keep playing. We have been giving 3 chances since the island dropped to show our true displeasure with our wallets but we keep buying it because this game is just that good. 

6 months to a year from now. People will be hammering this forum about meshing, how OP the Lava Drake is, dissecting the story line, and wondering if any more canon DLC's are in the work after Genesis Part 2.

If you have specific game suggestions, make a game suggestion post so like minded players can up vote your ideas and the devs may actually consider implementing them based on community response.

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This is like setting up a country and claiming land, while next to several other countries that quite possibly may object to your sovereignty. And then you wonder why their military shows up and says "Hi, that flag belongs to us, and you're coming with us too. (cha~ching)". ? But mah country, I should have the right to setup land next to you. Want to know how they do it in the real world? They get strong allies and people who acknowledge their existence as legitimate, who also have power to wield.

In regards to cheating in the game, such as meshing, report it. What else can you do? ?‍♀️

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2 hours ago, Sevenhell said:

You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

The fact that official pvp consists of pretty much build up, get wiped, repeat is truly bull****.  For those of you whom say this is the way it’s supposed to be that is a lie.  Do you really think that new players are gonna come to a game where all they can expect is to have everything taken from them on a regular basis?  I know people are gonna say well they would just quit the game after a few months of playing but the truth of the matter is if this game was ran the way it should be then we wouldn’t have  a problem of servers being empty with only decaying structures on them.  I have been playing this game since the beginning and just recently found the forums after getting tired of being solo and grinding it out by myself and constantly getting wiped.  In the end I have seen many a game come and go and it seems that if wildcard doesn’t do something to truly fix the pvp side of this game to where we can play pvp, raid, get raided, and not totally wipe or get wiped by other players then this game is gonna die before the last batch of dlc is even released.

I mean pretty much every survival always online game works this way though???? and you are wondering how it's a good business model to have the safety of your progress not be a guarantee, Pretty much what you are complaining about is one of the biggest draws to the game, the challenge risk and competitiveness of having to defend yourself and having yourself be at risk of losing everything. I mean look at rust, in rust even if you arent wiped by other players, the servers wipe at minimum once a month, so everyone is guaranteed to have to start again. What you are looking for OP sounds like PVE with war declaration rules, so PVE with some PVP thrown in there, thats the thing about ark there are many game modes to sate the experience you are looking for. I love the brutality of official PVP which is why I play it, I go a step further though and specifically play on Arkpocalypse which is monthly wipe servers as I much prefer everyone being wiped after a month and we all have to start the grind again together and be on an even playing field once more, the map goes back to looking wild and beautiful, all the laggy messes and blown bases disappear, and everyone goes back to being on an even footing to once more compete for dominance and survival, I love that experience. 

So coming here to say how is it a good business model because you would prefer to never lose anything is a bit of a subjective statement. Plenty of people love that aspect of Ark and I for one would get bored if there was no real threat of ever losing my progress. I am pretty sure the phenomenon of players leaving the game is not rooted in the nature of PvP, I am sure things like meshing, exploits, glitches, unintended character losses or tame losses or certain broken mechanics are a much bigger factor than the nature of PvP. Anyone who isnt happy with the PvP of officials has plenty of other servers to try out with their own rules adjustments and tweaks to how PvP is conducted.

Finally I don't see that "hardly over 30 players you are talking about. The servers I play on, namely Arkpocalypse, are almost always full at the beginning of a wipe, they drop off to about 20 players by the end of the month but then shoot back up to 60+ once the wipe happens. recently most of the valguero maps also were sitting at over 50 players. was hard finding an active one that wasn't capped out already.

I would have to say I disagree with your sentiments about PvP killing this game, I'm afraid I just don't believe that is true.

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2 hours ago, Sevenhell said:

Actually they can.  If they would just program the game to where the game recognizes structures such as bases and have it where if part of that base is destroyed by an enemy player, say a wall or a door.  Starting the next you should go into what could be called raid protection, where for the next 7 days you are granted a grace period where your base cannot be damaged, but have it set up where if you damage another players base during this time you lose that protection.  Also have it not protect you from getting attacked outside your base and having your items on you taken.

If this is how PvP functioned, where after destroying a few walls or doors you suddenly can't go any further then I would stop playing ark period.... This could be so exploited, people would just build bases with enough obstacles so you would never get to the loot before the "raid protection kicks in" and gives them time to replace the structures which were destroyed. You would never get anything out of a raid and raiding would become pointless, And at that stage it is pretty much a stone throw away from being straight up PvE.

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6 hours ago, Sevenhell said:

You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

The fact that official pvp consists of pretty much build up, get wiped, repeat is truly bull****.  For those of you whom say this is the way it’s supposed to be that is a lie.  Do you really think that new players are gonna come to a game where all they can expect is to have everything taken from them on a regular basis?  I know people are gonna say well they would just quit the game after a few months of playing but the truth of the matter is if this game was ran the way it should be then we wouldn’t have  a problem of servers being empty with only decaying structures on them.  I have been playing this game since the beginning and just recently found the forums after getting tired of being solo and grinding it out by myself and constantly getting wiped.  In the end I have seen many a game come and go and it seems that if wildcard doesn’t do something to truly fix the pvp side of this game to where we can play pvp, raid, get raided, and not totally wipe or get wiped by other players then this game is gonna die before the last batch of dlc is even released.

Nothing will happen since the majority of the playerbase plays PvE and/or unofficial servers nowadays. As much as I'd blame WC for plenty of issues resulting in the current status on officials, WE players hold a huge part of responsability in it as well.

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11 hours ago, Sevenhell said:

Actually they can.  If they would just program the game to where the game recognizes structures such as bases and have it where if part of that base is destroyed by an enemy player, say a wall or a door.  Starting the next you should go into what could be called raid protection, where for the next 7 days you are granted a grace period where your base cannot be damaged, but have it set up where if you damage another players base during this time you lose that protection.  Also have it not protect you from getting attacked outside your base and having your items on you taken.

So if they implemented your idea what would prevent someone from kicking out a member of their tribe every 7 days with C4 in their inventory and having them blow up a random door/doorframe while they're an 'enemy' to gain the protection and invite the player back? I'm not even a PvP player and it took me all of 2 minutes to think of a way to exploit that. 

Your thoughts are nice ones if everybody played by the rules and showed empathy and compassion toward their fellow man. Unfortunately that behavior is the exception not the norm and human nature is always going to be a major factor in how the rules and policies of this game are shaped. It's a sad but unavoidable truth.

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12 hours ago, Sevenhell said:

You can’t tell me this is a good business model for a game.

The fact that official pvp consists of pretty much build up, get wiped, repeat is truly bull****.  For those of you whom say this is the way it’s supposed to be that is a lie.  Do you really think that new players are gonna come to a game where all they can expect is to have everything taken from them on a regular basis?  I know people are gonna say well they would just quit the game after a few months of playing but the truth of the matter is if this game was ran the way it should be then we wouldn’t have  a problem of servers being empty with only decaying structures on them.  I have been playing this game since the beginning and just recently found the forums after getting tired of being solo and grinding it out by myself and constantly getting wiped.  In the end I have seen many a game come and go and it seems that if wildcard doesn’t do something to truly fix the pvp side of this game to where we can play pvp, raid, get raided, and not totally wipe or get wiped by other players then this game is gonna die before the last batch of dlc is even released.

The thousands of other PVP players who no-life it would probably disagree.

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13 hours ago, Sevenhell said:

Actually they can.  If they would just program the game to where the game recognizes structures such as bases and have it where if part of that base is destroyed by an enemy player, say a wall or a door.  Starting the next you should go into what could be called raid protection, where for the next 7 days you are granted a grace period where your base cannot be damaged, but have it set up where if you damage another players base during this time you lose that protection.  Also have it not protect you from getting attacked outside your base and having your items on you taken.

This is the opposite of an open world PvP game. 

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16 hours ago, Sevenhell said:

Actually they can.  If they would just program the game to where the game recognizes structures such as bases and have it where if part of that base is destroyed by an enemy player, say a wall or a door.  Starting the next you should go into what could be called raid protection, where for the next 7 days you are granted a grace period where your base cannot be damaged, but have it set up where if you damage another players base during this time you lose that protection.  Also have it not protect you from getting attacked outside your base and having your items on you taken.

In one sense you're right. They could have taken a fundamentally different approach to the game right from the beginning, not the suggestions you've listed here, because they're far to easy to exploit, but maybe something like including some sort of "claim" system in which a tribe lays claim to a piece of land that cannot be attacked (their safe zone, so to speak) and then builds outward from that safe zone. That way, if they get raided only the portions of their base outside of their safe zone could be destroyed, but all of their resources and tames inside of the safe zone could never be killed or destroyed. It would be like giving a permanent force field to the center portion of every tribe's base.

But... if they did that then it would basically be a different game. There would be limits on how many safe zones a tribe could have, there would be lots and lots of places that you couldn't build taming pens for FOB's, and there would be other complications that I'm not going to spend a lot of time thinking about. Even ORP, which was designed with good intentions from the very beginning, has had bunches of problems over the years, because no matter what system you put in place to try to protect people's bases, there will be other players who do everything in their power to ignore the intent behind those protections and exploit the protective system to their advantage.

 

Essentially, ARK could be a completely different game... but it's not. If you want to play Official PvP in ARK then you are accepting that your stuff can get wrecked, end of story.

 

There might be some Unofficial PvP servers that do what you're looking for, but you need to go out and look for them. There's nothing wrong with making suggestions for changes to the game, lots and lots of improvements to the game are the result of player suggestions or were taken from popular mods, but if you think they're going to change the fundamental philosophy for Official PvP this late in the game, well good luck with that. This is also a good time to remind you that the great majority of people play ARK on Unofficial servers. The version of PvP you're looking for is probably out there, it's just no on the Official PvP servers.

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?? Just play singleplayer? Or non dedicated session if you wanna play with some friends? Or rent a server of your own? Or play unofficial with custom rules and decent people? Or just play PVE? Or PVE unofficial?

I don't understand the attitude that you people have as if official PVP is literally the only thing there is to this game. There are so many options right in front of you, each one with their own atmosphere, playstyle/niche and experience to offer, pretending to be blind to them is your problem and is only harming you, not the game itself. WC has literally no control over how humans will behave unless they turn the entire game into an elementary school playground, and guess what, humans are assholes, it's not the system's fault.

They'd have to make an entire new game to revamp this "system" in order for that kind of playstyle to be disencouraged, and guess what? That wouldn't be Ark, that would be another game. Either get used to it or deal with the fact that you can't and go enjoy a different experience in another mode, the game should not change its formula to appease you.

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