Jump to content

StudioWildcard

Public Beta 2 [Experimental Branch]

Recommended Posts

Public Beta 2 [Experimental Branch]

Please keep comments related to the changes below.  Thanks in advance!

How to opt into a beta:

  • Right-click ARK: Survival Evolved in your Steam library and select Properties
  • Select the Beta tab to expose branches that are available to switch to
  • Click the drop-down list to select Experimental

experimental.png

After making the selection, your download will begin!

Changes in Experimental branch

- Mek shield debuff set to not be given on shield deactivation
- Outside of Mek shield debuff reduced to 30 seconds (from 60)
- Snow Owl freeze buff set to not dismount riders
- Players and Dino’s are immune to the snow owl freeze for 10 seconds after being frozen
- Snow Owl Encapsulate/freeze wind up changed from 1.3 seconds to 2.6
- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage by 30%
- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage to structures by 75%
- Dropped Plant Species Z Fruit weight to 10

9/6/19 Update (Based on feedback)

TEK Tapejara : projectile damage decreased from normal tek projectile by 30%
TEK Turret: HP buffed by 50% (from 3k to 4.5k)

Server Information

ExperimentalBeta (31.214.128.22)
Admin pw: testing

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Plant Z weight isn't 10 like it's supposed to be according to the patch notes it's 11. However as I addressed below I think 10 is still too heavy. 

Quote

- Dropped Plant Species Z Fruit weight to 10

Great change, however 10 weight I believe is still too high and again doesn't address the issue with plant Z. The issue with plant Z is the ridiculous blind that lasts at a minimum 10 seconds but often lasts a lot longer due to server lag. This is compounded by there not being an immunity period (reference; snow owls, bolas, mana freeze, etc). This is the reason why plant Z was so cancerous, NOT because people were carrying so much of it. Please properly address plant Z instead of band aid fixing it like this. I will gladly take the weight change but please Wildcard actively work on fixing it correctly like you are with snow owls.  Plant Z has a legitimate reason for existing in the current meta, I've listed above that it is one of the most effective counters to tek tape zerg, but it also exists to counter rhinos, manas, snow owls, theris, quetzals, velos, reapers, etc. 

 

Tek Tapey Nerfs

It seems the paper math for the tek tapey nerf was spot on... This is a huge nerf to Tek tapes, it's 75% on top of the 30% overall damage nerf. Tek tapeys now only do 88 damage per shot to tek structures. This is effectively a 82.5% nerf to damaging structures. Let me put this in perspective to how overboard this nerf is. Now remember that tek is the counter for tek. 

Tek Rexes (this applies to all other tek saddle variants I used rex for testing purposes) do 103 damage to metal... So a Tek rex saddle is doing more damage to metal than a Tek tapey is doing to Tek... The material that's supposed to be weak to Tek, just think about that for a moment.

I understand you want to balance Tek tapeys but this is just beyond ridiculous. I don't think you guys understand just how cancer you will make raiding bases that are built high up like Extinction city and tree bases or cliff platform/turret towers. Places where these other Tek saddle dinos CAN NOT reach. I can't believe that a 82.5% nerf is even being tested, this is WAY overboard.  

I'll propose some other creative ways to deal with current tek tapey meta;

  • Nerf tapey movespeed (easier for turrets to track)
  • Nerf tek tapey firing rate
  • Give tek tapey saddle an overheating mechanic (like the tek rifle and tek rail gun)
  • Increase tek turret health

I do not believe tek tapeys to be as over powered as people are making them out to be. As I've addressed below there are several ways to deal with tek tapey rushes that effectively stop the push in it's tracks. These counters are quite cheap please read below.

Quote

- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage by 30%

Both of the Tek Tapejara nerfs are quite overboard. I'll start by saying that Tek Tapey zergs have a very cheap and effective counter that only require 1 or 2 people to perform. Yes 1 or 2 people can stop 50+ guys flying in on Tek Tapes. Plant Z will single handedly stop a tek tape push in it's tracks. But that isn't the only thing, there's also Yuty fear, Rex roar, mek shield, and some other creative means. These active counters exist but there are also other passive counters such as good building practices. Layering buildings with metal, vault dropping, spacing tek turrets further apart, batteries in heavies, extra tek gens, backup gas gens, etc, etc. Wildcard I understand that people are complaining about Tek Tapes but there are several counters that exist in game that currently deal with Tek Tapes, both passive and active. It's up to the player base to use these counters as they exist to protect themselves. If Tek Tapeys were inherently broken as this patch seems to make them out as being there wouldn't be as many failed Tek Tapey zerg as there has been. I believe if a tribe doesn't build correctly or defend correctly they should be punished for this, that's the nature of PVP servers. Outright nerfing effective raid tactics because people refuse to build proper defenses or adapt to current meta is really annoying and overall damaging to PVP servers.

 

- Mek shield debuff set to not be given on shield deactivation

This is a really good nerf to the current mek shield spam meta, however I don't think it really addresses the main issue with the debuff. And that is the insanely overpowered values attached to this debuff. The insane slow which makes it impossible to escape from a mek that is in pursuit. But most of all the HUGE 50% weakness to all damage. Mek shield debuff can single handedly determine who will win a push. So much so that neither party will push into each other, so what ensues is a group of dinos on both sides just standing inside a mek shield staring at each other for 2 hours. 

This debuff is what is OP, not the shield spam. 


- Outside of Mek shield debuff reduced to 30 seconds (from 60)

This is a good change but it doesn't address the main issue at hand, the actual debuff values.


- Snow Owl freeze buff set to not dismount riders

Great change. 


- Players and Dino’s are immune to the snow owl freeze for 10 seconds after being frozen

Great change, I would ask that this immunity also be extended to the snow owl slow as well. Also possibly address how long players are being slowed and frozen, I think these values are a tad high currently.


- Snow Owl Encapsulate/freeze wind up changed from 1.3 seconds to 2.6

Good change, this should prevent spam freezing although so would the 10 second immunity above, not sure what this change aims to accomplish. 


- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage by 30%

Both of the Tek Tapejara nerfs are quite overboard. I'll start by saying that Tek Tapey zergs have a very cheap and effective counter that only require 1 or 2 people to perform. Yes 1 or 2 people can stop 50+ guys flying in on Tek Tapes. Plant Z will single handedly stop a tek tape push in it's tracks. But that isn't the only thing, there's also Yuty fear, Rex roar, mek shield, and some other creative means. These active counters exist but there are also other passive counters such as good building practices. Layering buildings with metal, vault dropping, spacing tek turrets further apart, batteries in heavies, extra tek gens, backup gas gens, etc, etc. Wildcard I understand that people are complaining about Tek Tapes but there are several counters that exist in game that currently deal with Tek Tapes, both passive and active. It's up to the player base to use these counters as they exist to protect themselves. If Tek Tapeys were inherently broken as this patch seems to make them out as being there wouldn't be as many failed Tek Tapey zerg as there has been. I believe if a tribe doesn't build correctly or defend correctly they should be punished for this, that's the nature of PVP servers. Outright nerfing effective raid tactics because people refuse to build proper defenses or adapt to current meta is really annoying and overall damaging to PVP servers.


- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage to structures by 75%

Super overboard on nerf see above. I also hope that this value isn't compounded on top of the overall 30% damage reduction above. Taking this reduction of 75% nerf to structures on top of the 30% nerf this is how long it will take to destroy tek items with Tapeys

Paper math on the Tek Tapejara change:

  • Tek Turret (3,000 Health) : 34 Shots : 1.25 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Wall (10,000 Health) : 114 Shots: 4.5 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Foundation (15,000 Health) : 171 Shots : 7 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Ceiling (10,000 Health) : 114 Shots: 4.5 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Generator (15,000 Health) : 171 Shots : 7 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Forcefield (250,000 Health : 2,858 Shots : 117 element used with 1 Tapejara

(All maths thanks to the one true Velo God: Jose Sanchez)

I don't think much needs said about these values besides they are utterly ridiculous, so much so that you might as well delete the tek tapey saddles from the game because of how pitiful they will be if this goes through to live servers.


- Dropped Plant Species Z Fruit weight to 10

Great change, however 10 weight I believe is still too high and again doesn't address the issue with plant Z. The issue with plant Z is the ridiculous blind that lasts at a minimum 10 seconds but often lasts a lot longer due to server lag. This is compounded by there not being an immunity period (reference; snow owls, bolas, mana freeze, etc). This is the reason why plant Z was so cancerous, NOT because people were carrying so much of it. Please properly address plant Z instead of band aid fixing it like this. I will gladly take the weight change but please Wildcard actively work on fixing it correctly like you are with snow owls.  Plant Z has a legitimate reason for existing in the current meta, I've listed above that it is one of the most effective counters to tek tape zerg, but it also exists to counter rhinos, manas, snow owls, theris, quetzals, velos, reapers, etc. 

Edited by DVSR
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Tapejara nerf is too big, shouldn't have nerfed both structure and dino/player damage as it's going to be pretty much useless. Also only nerfing the Tapejaras was a bad idea, it's going to make raiding bases that are high up in the air such as extinction tree or city harder than it already is while the land bases will still be vulnerable to the tek Rex. IMO tek turret HP needs to be increased or all tek saddles need to receive a structure damage nerf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh i am happy they are nerfing tek tape as hard as they are. Not because i want it to go to live but i genuinely believe that players will not give quality feedback that WC can actually use with out doing such a heavy nerf at first.

Personally i see tek tape damage staying as is at 30% nerf but i genuinely believe that structure damage will be changed to something like 20% rather than the current 75%.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PVE does not want the snow owl 10 second immunity or the 2.6 second freeze ramp-up.  It makes it much harder for people to tame Manas, Quetzes and other tames. 

It also makes purple OSD healing even more tedious and take longer.

The no dismount on freeze thing is awesome though. That can stay.

TLDR: Split PVP balances from PVE.

Thank you.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Will go through point by point as I'm on the Beta Branch:

2 hours ago, DVSR said:

Plant Z weight isn't 10 like it's supposed to be according to the patch notes it's 11. However as I addressed below I think 10 is still too heavy. 

 

Tek Tapey Nerfs

It seems the paper math for the tek tapey nerf was spot on... This is a huge nerf to Tek tapes, it's 75% on top of the 30% overall damage nerf. Tek tapeys now only do 88 damage per shot to tek structures. This is effectively a 82.5% nerf to damaging structures. Let me put this in perspective to how overboard this nerf is. Now remember that tek is the counter for tek. 

Tek Rexes (this applies to all other tek saddle variants I used rex for testing purposes) do 103 damage to metal... So a Tek rex saddle is doing more damage to metal than a Tek tapey is doing to Tek... The material that's supposed to be weak to Tek, just think about that for a moment.

I understand you want to balance Tek tapeys but this is just beyond ridiculous. I don't think you guys understand just how cancer you will make raiding bases that are built high up like Extinction city and tree bases or cliff platform/turret towers. Places where these other Tek saddle dinos CAN NOT reach. I can't believe that a 82.5% nerf is even being tested, this is WAY overboard.  

I'll propose some other creative ways to deal with current tek tapey meta;

  • Nerf tapey movespeed (easier for turrets to track)
  • Nerf tek tapey firing rate
  • Give tek tapey saddle an overheating mechanic (like the tek rifle and tek rail gun)
  • Increase tek turret health

I do not believe tek tapeys to be as over powered as people are making them out to be. As I've addressed below there are several ways to deal with tek tapey rushes that effectively stop the push in it's tracks. These counters are quite cheap please read below.

 

- Mek shield debuff set to not be given on shield deactivation

This is a really good nerf to the current mek shield spam meta, however I don't think it really addresses the main issue with the debuff. And that is the insanely overpowered values attached to this debuff. The insane slow which makes it impossible to escape from a mek that is in pursuit. But most of all the HUGE 50% weakness to all damage. Mek shield debuff can single handedly determine who will win a push. So much so that neither party will push into each other, so what ensues is a group of dinos on both sides just standing inside a mek shield staring at each other for 2 hours. 

This debuff is what is OP, not the shield spam. 


- Outside of Mek shield debuff reduced to 30 seconds (from 60)

This is a good change but it doesn't address the main issue at hand, the actual debuff values.


- Snow Owl freeze buff set to not dismount riders

Great change. 


- Players and Dino’s are immune to the snow owl freeze for 10 seconds after being frozen

Great change, I would ask that this immunity also be extended to the snow owl slow as well. Also possibly address how long players are being slowed and frozen, I think these values are a tad high currently.


- Snow Owl Encapsulate/freeze wind up changed from 1.3 seconds to 2.6

Good change, this should prevent spam freezing although so would the 10 second immunity above, not sure what this change aims to accomplish. 


- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage by 30%

Both of the Tek Tapejara nerfs are quite overboard. I'll start by saying that Tek Tapey zergs have a very cheap and effective counter that only require 1 or 2 people to perform. Yes 1 or 2 people can stop 50+ guys flying in on Tek Tapes. Plant Z will single handedly stop a tek tape push in it's tracks. But that isn't the only thing, there's also Yuty fear, Rex roar, mek shield, and some other creative means. These active counters exist but there are also other passive counters such as good building practices. Layering buildings with metal, vault dropping, spacing tek turrets further apart, batteries in heavies, extra tek gens, backup gas gens, etc, etc. Wildcard I understand that people are complaining about Tek Tapes but there are several counters that exist in game that currently deal with Tek Tapes, both passive and active. It's up to the player base to use these counters as they exist to protect themselves. If Tek Tapeys were inherently broken as this patch seems to make them out as being there wouldn't be as many failed Tek Tapey zerg as there has been. I believe if a tribe doesn't build correctly or defend correctly they should be punished for this, that's the nature of PVP servers. Outright nerfing effective raid tactics because people refuse to build proper defenses or adapt to current meta is really annoying and overall damaging to PVP servers.


- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage to structures by 75%

Super overboard on nerf see above. I also hope that this value isn't compounded on top of the overall 30% damage reduction above. Taking this reduction of 75% nerf to structures on top of the 30% nerf this is how long it will take to destroy tek items with Tapeys

Paper math on the Tek Tapejara change:

  • Tek Turret (3,000 Health) : 34 Shots : 1.25 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Wall (10,000 Health) : 114 Shots: 4.5 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Foundation (15,000 Health) : 171 Shots : 7 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Ceiling (10,000 Health) : 114 Shots: 4.5 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Generator (15,000 Health) : 171 Shots : 7 element used with 1 Tapejara
  • Tek Forcefield (250,000 Health : 2,858 Shots : 117 element used with 1 Tapejara

(All maths thanks to the one true Velo God: Jose Sanchez)

I don't think much needs said about these values besides they are utterly ridiculous, so much so that you might as well delete the tek tapey saddles from the game because of how pitiful they will be if this goes through to live servers.


- Dropped Plant Species Z Fruit weight to 10

Great change, however 10 weight I believe is still too high and again doesn't address the issue with plant Z. The issue with plant Z is the ridiculous blind that lasts at a minimum 10 seconds but often lasts a lot longer due to server lag. This is compounded by there not being an immunity period (reference; snow owls, bolas, mana freeze, etc). This is the reason why plant Z was so cancerous, NOT because people were carrying so much of it. Please properly address plant Z instead of band aid fixing it like this. I will gladly take the weight change but please Wildcard actively work on fixing it correctly like you are with snow owls.  Plant Z has a legitimate reason for existing in the current meta, I've listed above that it is one of the most effective counters to tek tape zerg, but it also exists to counter rhinos, manas, snow owls, theris, quetzals, velos, reapers, etc. 


Everything DVSR has posted is good, with some added things as I'm on the Beta Branch:

Mek Shield Debuff should not be 30 seconds, but maybe 10. 30 Seconds is still way too long for anyone to possibly ever get away from a Mek. The purpose of the Mek shield should be to protect allies and give a *minor* damage increase debuff to the enemy. IE: 20% extra damage instead of 50%. Honestly the slow should just be removed all together from Mek Shields.



Snow Owl Immunity should only apply to ENEMY Dinosaurs and Players. The immunity to being frozen for allied dinos doesn't make any sense. See if you can flag this as a priority, that way PvE players are happy.


Snow Owl Immunity should also apply to the slow debuff, that way people can't spam dive bomb when they are chasing someone down.





As far as the Tek Tapejara nerfs, I agree with what DVSR has stated. I believe the proper way to Nerf Tapejaras is to take something away and to give something. 

IE: 50% reduction in their damage to structures, remove the 30% projectile nerf, but then up the range to High on Tek Rexes and Tek Rock Drakes OR give C4 Platforms back. The only viable saddle currently IS the Tek Tapejara Saddle. If you nerf it to oblivion, then we are back to a soaking meta, which is bad.

Another viable alternative is to just increase the Tek Turret Health from 3000 to 20000 and do not nerf tek tapejara at all. That way, it is 40 Tek Tapejara shots to destroy a Tek Turret instead of 6. 



Plant Z Weight is currently 11 on the Beta Branch. Also, remove the Flash Bang effect. Noone wants it.

Edited by JoseSanchez
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, JoseSanchez said:


Snow Owl Immunity should only apply to ENEMY Dinosaurs and Players. The immunity to being frozen for allied dinos doesn't make any sense. See if you can flag this as a priority, that way PvE players are happy.


Snow Owl Immunity should also apply to the slow debuff, that way people can't spam dive bomb when they are chasing someone down.
 

Your ideas make things a little more palatable to the PVE community. As a little more info though--I use the heal extensively during taming, especially on squishy low level event dinos that just want to feed themselves to wolves than be tamed by me. Your changes will still hurt (but not as bad) unless they make the wild dino tribe also unaffected by the changes.

That said, I do understand how these are good and beneficial changes to the PVP community.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, StudioWildcard said:

 


- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage by 30%
- Reduced Tek Tapejara Saddle projectile damage to structures by 75%

 

I think these nerfs should be applied to others Tek Saddles (mainly Rex and Rock Drake) otherwise I can already see the new meta:

8666B5E4B792ACB2B0F2D1D19DD75DF3E267868D

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huge over-reaction to tek tapes. Tek tapes are only strong when people aren't defending or building properly. Attackers have tried at least 2 tek tape rushes on our server with 50-60+ tapes, both failed miserably because the defenders online were not braindead, and simply countered them. There are already in-game counters for tape zerg, you don't have to nerf tapes into the ground because some people don't use the already existing counters properly.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, fataldog187 said:

Huge over-reaction to tek tapes. Tek tapes are only strong when people aren't defending or building properly. Attackers have tried at least 2 tek tape rushes on our server with 50-60+ tapes, both failed miserably because the defenders online were not braindead, and simply countered them. There are already in-game counters for tape zerg, you don't have to nerf tapes into the ground because some people don't use the already existing counters properly.

On laggy servers plant z doesn't even register 90% of the time and 6 shots to destroy a tek turret is ridiculous when we have 1500 dura flak and 40,000 health tapeys and then you add server lag on top of that (turrets only shooting once every 2-3 seconds, plant z not registering etc.)

The current tek tapey meta is terrible, I say nerf them into the ground because they are FAR from balanced right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People don't want the soak meta because it is "bad" ? 

The good old days and massive wars went on for days because people could fob on land and it was the soak meta. Not only is the soak meta a poop load better than this being zerged meta but it actually results in more dinosaur fighting

I'm sorry but what's the point in me spending hours and hours making arb, which BTW is a pain in the arse to make when 50 tek tapes can shoot twice and destroy a metal wall, never mind a tek wall and literally drop the tower. 

The current metas to counter them are plant Z (if you can even hit a hovering, flying tape, or if it registers) and snow owl bombing near, again, hoping that it registers.

Tek tapes need a nerf but there damage to everything except objects should stay the same. The other tek dinos are the same. The current damage to tames which are highly bred is acceptable. Nerf there damage to structures by 50%, increase tek turret health to 15-20k and call it day. 

That way its 40 element for a tek shield which if they put fully up you can also smash with a mek and tek turrets are a bit stronger. 

Now titans are nerfed, tek tapes is the only reason we won't build a land base currently. But we all want one, and with hopefully the upcoming cave nerf this will be enough to see some creativity and big wars again. 

Also the ratio of element to shards should be nerfed so people can't then just run gachas and boss fights and have 80/90-10 tek-heavy all capped. Capping tek turrets is way too easy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, fataldog187 said:

Huge over-reaction to tek tapes. Tek tapes are only strong when people aren't defending or building properly. Attackers have tried at least 2 tek tape rushes on our server with 50-60+ tapes, both failed miserably because the defenders online were not braindead, and simply countered them. There are already in-game counters for tape zerg, you don't have to nerf tapes into the ground because some people don't use the already existing counters properly.

THE meta is offline raiding .. so   of course tapes are just too strong  (to structures mostly)  If you have watched any of the 6 man streams lately, you will see every big raid is racers pushing forward, drawing fire, and tapes up above shooting catwalks and hatch frames  (holding turrets)  or tunneling to the generators.  

here is a question  no one seems to have asked..     if 6 people have 1000 man hours into building defenses  (lets assume they are the best possible defenses)  how many man hours should it take to raid that base offline?  if the answer is something like 20 then you are building a game that requires people to play 24/7.

 

again,  if you get rid of demolish timer visibility  from afar.. the afk raiding meta goes away.. the game becomes 1000x more interesting.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, RyanIsMegatron said:

People don't want the soak meta because it is "bad" ? 

The good old days and massive wars went on for days because people could fob on land and it was the soak meta. Not only is the soak meta a poop load better than this being zerged meta but it actually results in more dinosaur fighting

I'm sorry but what's the point in me spending hours and hours making arb, which BTW is a pain in the arse to make when 50 tek tapes can shoot twice and destroy a metal wall, never mind a tek wall and literally drop the tower. 

The current metas to counter them are plant Z (if you can even hit a hovering, flying tape, or if it registers) and snow owl bombing near, again, hoping that it registers.

Tek tapes need a nerf but there damage to everything except objects should stay the same. The other tek dinos are the same. The current damage to tames which are highly bred is acceptable. Nerf there damage to structures by 50%, increase tek turret health to 15-20k and call it day. 

That way its 40 element for a tek shield which if they put fully up you can also smash with a mek and tek turrets are a bit stronger. 

Now titans are nerfed, tek tapes is the only reason we won't build a land base currently. But we all want one, and with hopefully the upcoming cave nerf this will be enough to see some creativity and big wars again. 

Also the ratio of element to shards should be nerfed so people can't then just run gachas and boss fights and have 80/90-10 tek-heavy all capped. Capping tek turrets is way too easy. 


Thats the entire reason why the soaking meta is bad. Tek Turrets are extremely easy to cap, we are at a place in the meta where every single turret tower is capped. You cannot realistically expect an attacker to spend hours upon hours soaking turret ammo during a war only to have it refilled because they have no reliable way to destroy it. The only hope one would have is to drain the Heavies and start rocketing from a distance, but even then it takes one person with a brain to get extra ARB and set a turret on only wild so that gets completely nullified.

Tek Rexes take up too much room and the rider is likely to be picked off/shot off when they are attempting to destroy turrets
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"You cannot realistically expect an attacker to spend hours upon hours soaking turret ammo during a war only to have it refilled because they have no reliable way to destroy it. "

why not?   1000 man hours to build a good defense, and you want to be able to tear that down in an hour or so?  .   You have to set some kind of balance between time spent on defense and time spent on offense.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, JoseSanchez said:


Thats the entire reason why the soaking meta is bad. Tek Turrets are extremely easy to cap, we are at a place in the meta where every single turret tower is capped. You cannot realistically expect an attacker to spend hours upon hours soaking turret ammo during a war only to have it refilled because they have no reliable way to destroy it. The only hope one would have is to drain the Heavies and start rocketing from a distance, but even then it takes one person with a brain to get extra ARB and set a turret on only wild so that gets completely nullified.

Tek Rexes take up too much room and the rider is likely to be picked off/shot off when they are attempting to destroy turrets
 

It's not hard for them to change the ratio of element and dust per shard, 1 ele or 1000 dust should be 10 shards and not 100. Over time people will still cap turrets but it will actually hurt them doing so.

Extinction is a different ball game and they will need to make trees and possibly city 6x as compensation for the mass amounts of element gained, if tek tapes are to still be used.

Tek turrets should be silly strong, but they should also be harder to cap.

500 ele to cap a turret. Have fun doing that to all them turrets. - well maybe not 1 ele - 10 shards as now that looks a bit too expensive, but you get my point. 

Edited by RyanIsMegatron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, RyanIsMegatron said:

Now titans are nerfed, tek tapes is the only reason we won't build a land base currently. But we all want one, and with hopefully the upcoming cave nerf this will be enough to see some creativity and big wars again. 

People build in caves because there is so much space and you don't have to worry about your dinos getting sniped, changing entrances won't change that, it'll just make cave PvP more interesting, you can still sit at a choke point and spam bite with a giga.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, milagro said:

"You cannot realistically expect an attacker to spend hours upon hours soaking turret ammo during a war only to have it refilled because they have no reliable way to destroy it. "

why not?   1000 man hours to build a good defense, and you want to be able to tear that down in an hour or so?  .   You have to set some kind of balance between time spent on defense and time spent on offense.  

Absolutely, there has to be a balance in offense and defense, but the problem is right now we're so deep in the game everyone stuff is capped and the *BIG* official wars won't ever be able to soak someones turret tower to completion because everyone has ARB/Shards to spare to refill endlessly. 

I agree with removing the Demolish timer on structures for enemies.

 

 

6 minutes ago, RyanIsMegatron said:

It's not hard for them to change the ratio of element and dust per shard, 1 ele or 1000 dust should be 10 shards and not 100. Over time people will still cap turrets but it will actually hurt them doing so.

Extinction is a different ball game and they will need to make trees and possibly city 6x as compensation for the mass amounts of element gained, if tek tapes are to still be used.

Tek turrets should be silly strong, but they should also be harder to cap.

500 ele to cap a turret. Have fun doing that to all them turrets. - well maybe not 1 ele - 10 shards as now that looks a bit too expensive, but you get my point. 



Something easier would be to just lower the amount of shards a tek turret can have. Right now, a capped heavy turret shoots 1400 times (The same as a regular automated turret.) We could just lower the stack count to 2 stacks of 1000 on a tek turret, but that still doesn't really fix the problem of being able to endlessly fill them. 

If you do this, then offline/unaware soaking becomes more prevalent. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JoseSanchez said:

Something easier would be to just lower the amount of shards a tek turret can have. Right now, a capped heavy turret shoots 1400 times (The same as a regular automated turret.) We could just lower the stack count to 2 stacks of 1000 on a tek turret, but that still doesn't really fix the problem of being able to endlessly fill them. 

If you do this, then offline/unaware soaking becomes more prevalent. 

 

If they can endlessly fill and shields are more expensive to destroy having less slots won't make a difference. They need to make the physical cost of shards cost more.

Also they need to get rid of Parasaurs - or there ability, they ruin the game in so many ways. you can no longer stealth soak and blow which used to be a big part of pre-fobbing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good changes across the board except for Tek Tapejara changes.

The main issue right now is Tek Tapejaras destroying Tek Turrets specifically, the damage they do to actual Tek Structures is balanced in my opinion and necessary because Tek Tapejara are the only Tek saddled dino that can attack certain structures that are very high in the air. Nerfing their damage across the board to address issues with Tek Turrets is the wrong way to go about it, if these changes go through it's going to take a ridiculous amount of time and Element to destroy Tek Structures like the Tek Forcefield, and players will simply spam Tek Forcefields because of how taxing it is to destroy them, in essence you're creating a new Forcefield spam meta.

I would recommend increasing the HP of Tek Turrets themselves rather than nerfing Tek Tapejara's damage to all Tek structures. 3000 HP is rather abysmal and is the main reason Tek Turrets are destroyed, if their HP was 10,000 or 15,000 it would be significantly harder to destroy the Tek Turret whilst leaving the current numbers to Tek Structures intact (which are necessary in order to be able to actually raid someone). Players already have the tools in game to deal with Tek Tapejaras by utilizing metal structures as an additional layer of defense which Tek dinos are very weak against, and in combination with the Plant Z weight reduction it will be easier to dismount them (The Plant Z weight increase is a large reason why Tek Tapejaras are strong at the moment to reducing this nerf will indirectly nerf Tapejaras).

One thing to keep in mind is that nerfing counters to Tek Turrets this hard will have negative consequences that are worse than the current meta. Element is very easy to come by now with the advent of Extinction and Tek Turrets can easily be filled with 5000 shards each that take significantly longer to drain then Heavy Turrets whilst dealing just as much damage per shot. The amount of cakes and time required to soak a turret capped tower is very high. You don't want to nerf these things so much that the only way to deal with them is to soak them when players can literally farm Element faster than it takes you to soak, that will just create a meta even worse than the current one. A Tek Turret HP increase is all you really need with gradual changes over time depending on how players adapt to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2019 at 2:06 PM, RyanIsMegatron said:

It's not hard for them to change the ratio of element and dust per shard, 1 ele or 1000 dust should be 10 shards and not 100. Over time people will still cap turrets but it will actually hurt them doing so.

Extinction is a different ball game and they will need to make trees and possibly city 6x as compensation for the mass amounts of element gained, if tek tapes are to still be used.

Tek turrets should be silly strong, but they should also be harder to cap.

500 ele to cap a turret. Have fun doing that to all them turrets. - well maybe not 1 ele - 10 shards as now that looks a bit too expensive, but you get my point. 

If you change the amount of dust to element, or dust to shards, you are going to wreck the entire PVE economy.  Trades will now be 10x more expensive, dust wise. 

Additionally you're going to wreck the cost of cloning, which will go through the roof by a factor of 10--unless they reduce how much it costs to clone items, by a factor of 10, which then means you'll be able to clone high level stuff (like max level phoenixes, higher level bred dinos, etc), which also changes the balance of things.  Cloning bays can only hold 48 slots or 48000 shards.  You may not care about the PVE economy, but this change would most certainly have harmful effects to PVP.

You can't just simply change anything without cascading a whole slew of other changes down the line.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a PVE player and trying the changes I can say I am not happy with the changes to the Snow Owl. I can understand why PvP players want it, but in PvE it is hurting the actual use of the creature. I agree with someone above that perhaps it should be locked out of freezing enemies players and dinos, but not the wild dinosaurs which is hurting the great and fun mechanic/use it has for PvE.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...