PVE Declaration of War Banditry

[AngrySaltire]

4 hours ago, TheDonn said:

If I have a strong dragon-type attack maybe.  Ground wouldn't do squat to you!  But Garchomp is awesome.

Strong dragon type or even a learned rock type move would do it. 

[GrumpyBear]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:39 AM, nipe said:

Most evil players on ARK isn't on Offi PvP but on PvE. Pillar spammers, griefers who drag dinos to your base haha. I'm not surprised.

Not all pillar spamming is bad,  I didn’t pillar spam the area near me on valg and someone decided to park a box right on a valley that used to spawn 2 alpha rexes and 50 of whatever else at a time.  Now I’m lucky to see one alpha every other day or so and the plethora of animals that used to spawn, like unicorns, is down to just a few.

[Garet]

WC shouldn't even be spending any time on this.

Alliance was intended for tribal warfare.  Not so you could have private chats with your buddies or do trading.

Trading was never an intended mechanic.  If it was they would have put  infrastructure in the game to help facilitate it.

This whole Pseudo economy is a hold over from other online games and something the COMMUNITY created, that WC has to allow because its impossible to stop without doing away with tribes.

The problems with alliances for traders were created by the community.

We have a million other issues that should be addressed and they're going to waste time going through the code doing whatever they have to do to disable it.  Even if it's just a toggle in an .ini it's time wasted because you used a mechanic in a way it wasn't designed for.

There's nothing in this game that's worth 300k dust.   The best thing that happened to my island server was the old tribes moving on to Valguero.  Now buying and selling is almost non existent on my server and we basically just work together.

 

[Garet]

Quote

26 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

Not all pillar spamming is bad,  I didn’t pillar spam the area near me on valg and someone decided to park a box right on a valley that used to spawn 2 alpha rexes and 50 of whatever else at a time.  Now I’m lucky to see one alpha every other day or so and the plethora of animals that used to spawn, like unicorns, is down to just a few.

 

99% of the time people complaining about pillars are either bobs who won't get off the beach or people who don't understand why they're there in the first place.

 

Believe me, there is such a thing as pillar spam.  I understand that.  But what these people don't understand is GET OFF THE BEACH.  If those pillars weren't on the beach, someone would build a large base there because it's on the water and players would be spawning inside bases every day.

 

They cry that the "easy area" is so pillared they can't build a campfire, but this is pure ignorance.  This is a survival game.  There are no easy areas.  Alpha Raptors can be found on any beach.  Rexes spawn in the south beach area and even occasionally packs of Allos.  Spinos spawn on the rivers (provided the spawns aren't destroyed).

 

If people didn't pillar around metal spawns, someone would build a base there and the metal would no longer spawn.

 

I would rather see a million pillars than these large massive bases with 100 dinos sitting out.  My main server is island and people have been complaining about the low level dino spawns, but then they obliterate the spawns with massive bases.

Dino Leashes are PVE cancer.  People put out boss rexes or Gigas on aggressive in dino leashes and wild dinosaurs cease to exist in that spot.  We had a large tribe put Leashes on all the Spino spawns so that every time a Spino spawned they would get the sail automatically until we threatened to report them.

 

Herbivore island has been taken up by a tribe that already had 4 bases for half a year.  About 7 dinos spawn there now on average, mostly on the little islands.   Dead/Carnivore Island has recently been terraformed with metal by a box tribe.

 

Herbivore used to be a great place for a new player to take a raft and go tame their first trike, anky, etc. without fear of a carnivore destroying your tame.  Now you can no longer do that on my server.

 

Dead Island used to be a great source for Rexes, and alphas.  I even tamed a unicorn there a week ago on the south side when the north side of the island was covered in metal.  2 days later I went back and the south side was covered in behemoth gates and more metal.  3 carnotaurus roamed the beach and they were the only spawns.  Part of the reason this was able to happen is because I let my pillars on Carno island despawn.

 

If you want to build wherever you want, make a hundred bases and build a bunch of "pretty" stuff, then maybe you should be playing single player or on a private server.  It gets real old when people spoil other people's experiences because they feel they can do whatever they want and build whatever they want on a server.

 

The game is about dinosaurs.  The game is about the story.  The game isn't about you.

[flamron]

56 minutes ago, Garet said:

99% of the time people complaining about pillars are either bobs who won't get off the beach or people who don't understand why they're there in the first place.

 

Believe me, there is such a thing as pillar spam.  I understand that.  But what these people don't understand is GET OFF THE BEACH.  If those pillars weren't on the beach, someone would build a large base there because it's on the water and players would be spawning inside bases every day.

 

They cry that the "easy area" is so pillared they can't build a campfire, but this is pure ignorance.  This is a survival game.  There are no easy areas.  Alpha Raptors can be found on any beach.  Rexes spawn in the south beach area and even occasionally packs of Allos.  Spinos spawn on the rivers (provided the spawns aren't destroyed).

 

If people didn't pillar around metal spawns, someone would build a base there and the metal would no longer spawn.

 

I would rather see a million pillars than these large massive bases with 100 dinos sitting out.  My main server is island and people have been complaining about the low level dino spawns, but then they obliterate the spawns with massive bases.

Dino Leashes are PVE cancer.  People put out boss rexes or Gigas on aggressive in dino leashes and wild dinosaurs cease to exist in that spot.  We had a large tribe put Leashes on all the Spino spawns so that every time a Spino spawned they would get the sail automatically until we threatened to report them.

 

Herbivore island has been taken up by a tribe that already had 4 bases for half a year.  About 7 dinos spawn there now on average, mostly on the little islands.   Dead/Carnivore Island has recently been terraformed with metal by a box tribe.

 

Herbivore used to be a great place for a new player to take a raft and go tame their first trike, anky, etc. without fear of a carnivore destroying your tame.  Now you can no longer do that on my server.

 

Dead Island used to be a great source for Rexes, and alphas.  I even tamed a unicorn there a week ago on the south side when the north side of the island was covered in metal.  2 days later I went back and the south side was covered in behemoth gates and more metal.  3 carnotaurus roamed the beach and they were the only spawns.  Part of the reason this was able to happen is because I let my pillars on Carno island despawn.

 

If you want to build wherever you want, make a hundred bases and build a bunch of "pretty" stuff, then maybe you should be playing single player or on a private server.  It gets real old when people spoil other people's experiences because they feel they can do whatever they want and build whatever they want on a server.

 

The game is about dinosaurs.  The game is about the story.  The game isn't about you.

I used to think exactly like this. But it’s unfair. We own herb island and have killed every spawn because we don’t want people having any reason other than trades to come there.

But pillaring down “important to you” areas is just silly. Make resource spawns unbuildable like the volcano on island. Pillaring deinonychus spawns to “protect the nests” is dumb and adds tremendous lag as evidenced by the 1000+ pillars and ladders we now have to deal with. Make the areas unbuildable. Period. 

I appreciate Wildcard for changing up and actually removing pillar spam from our Valguero server twice now after reports. And the majority of the server will continue to report it until the other “big tribes” learn its unwarranted. 

[Rogero]

On 8/20/2019 at 3:29 PM, Joebl0w13 said:

Leave it to a bunch of sociopaths to ruin it for everyone else.

What do you mean? I agree all parts should accept war but to remove it with all available weopons makes the game only a mix of collecting dinos and building, the threat of wild dinos is close to zero when you progressed some in the game.

[TheDonn]

12 minutes ago, Rogero said:

What do you mean? I agree all parts should accept war but to remove it with all available weopons makes the game only a mix of collecting dinos and building, the threat of wild dinos is close to zero when you progressed some in the game.

Sociopaths lack conscience and often exhibit extreme antisocial behavior.  Luring an individual into an alliance under the pretense of trade only to start a tribe-war so you can PvE raid and laugh at all the salt you are making/getting could be considered a perfect match for the definition.  The tribe-war mechanic exists for two people who don't like each other to come together and meet in battle.  It was not being used for that, and so it is getting taken out.

The people who have used the tribe-war mechanic properly: Are they to blame for this action?  Or is it the "sociopath" people who get off on watching people squirm while they raid and kill all their dinos/demo their structures?  And for the gross majority of people who have never used the tribe-war mechanic and probably never intend to, the game being a mix of collecting dinos and building works just fine.

[Workclock]

I'm pretty new within the PvE community/the PvE trading community so I don't clearly understand what any of this means, but I do have to say, compared to when I played PvE 2-3 years ago, there are a lot of griefers.

I recently got off PvP and joined PvE with my girlfriend just to play with her and other people in the server. The first few people we met were extremely supportive and nice people, but within just a few days (while we were farming) a player on a griffin led many wyverns nearby our base.

Thankfully we had some velo's from our neighbors kill them off, but still, the griefer (still) continues to either grief us or other people around us while they're away from their base.


It's a big shame that there are many griefers on PvE that you can't really do much about.

I do wish there was more you could do against griefers like your friend experienced and that of what we're currently experiencing.

[Rogero]

24 minutes ago, TheDonn said:

Sociopaths lack conscience and often exhibit extreme antisocial behavior.  Luring an individual into an alliance under the pretense of trade only to start a tribe-war so you can PvE raid and laugh at all the salt you are making/getting could be considered a perfect match for the definition.  The tribe-war mechanic exists for two people who don't like each other to come together and meet in battle.  It was not being used for that, and so it is getting taken out.

The people who have used the tribe-war mechanic properly: Are they to blame for this action?  Or is it the "sociopath" people who get off on watching people squirm while they raid and kill all their dinos/demo their structures?  And for the gross majority of people who have never used the tribe-war mechanic and probably never intend to, the game being a mix of collecting dinos and building works just fine.

Maybe most pve players not used war mechanism, my friends and me used it alot to have fun, test the dinos in battle etc. And we dont hate, just did for fun ?

Maybe private server with special settings is now better for us cause official pvp is to hard for, dont have time with war 24/7.

[TheDonn]

22 minutes ago, Rogero said:

Maybe most pve players not used war mechanism, my friends and me used it alot to have fun, test the dinos in battle etc. And we dont hate, just did for fun ?

Maybe private server with special settings is now better for us cause official pvp is to hard for, dont have time with war 24/7.

Yep well, you and your friends are not the problem, and you are hurt by the removal.  A feature you enjoy is gone now because of abuse.  Welcome to ARK, I guess. 

[flamron]

6 hours ago, TheDonn said:

Yep well, you and your friends are not the problem, and you are hurt by the removal.  A feature you enjoy is gone now because of abuse.  Welcome to ARK, I guess. 

Maybe they’ll remove pillars next go around since so many people abuse and enjoy using them. Lol

[Garet]

22 hours ago, flamron said:

I used to think exactly like this. But it’s unfair. We own herb island and have killed every spawn because we don’t want people having any reason other than trades to come there.

But pillaring down “important to you” areas is just silly. Make resource spawns unbuildable like the volcano on island. Pillaring deinonychus spawns to “protect the nests” is dumb and adds tremendous lag as evidenced by the 1000+ pillars and ladders we now have to deal with. Make the areas unbuildable. Period. 

I appreciate Wildcard for changing up and actually removing pillar spam from our Valguero server twice now after reports. And the majority of the server will continue to report it until the other “big tribes” learn its unwarranted. 

Did you actually just say that you killed all the spawns on Herbivore island for something "important to you" and then proclaim that pillaring "important to you" areas is just silly?

 

Seriously?

3 hours ago, flamron said:

Maybe they’ll remove pillars next go around since so many people abuse and enjoy using them. Lol

No, they won't.   Because if they did we'd use something else.

[flamron]

Just now, Garet said:

Did you actually just say that you killed all the spawns on Herbivore island for something "important to you" and then proclaim that pillaring "important to you" areas is just silly?

 

Seriously?

No, they won't.   Because if they did we'd use something else.

I sure did. Because we claimed the land. But what we didn’t do was pillar every inch beyond the island like most other tribes. Someone can come build (in the water in this example) right beside us and I’m ok with that. We didn’t pillar beyond the render. We own the island because we use it all. 

[Garet]

6 minutes ago, flamron said:

I sure did. Because we claimed the land.

Just what do you think people are using pillars for exactly?

 

Did you not read my post at all?  I didn't advocate pillaring every inch of a map so that people couldn't build.  I said there are reasons for pillars.  Protecting spawns being the major use for them.  Whether that's player spawns, rare dino spawns, or important resources.

 

Try looking up cryopods if you think you need a whole island. I can already tell based on your statement of using everything in render that you're one of those tribes building massive structures leaving out 500 tames and lagging the hell out of the server so I'm talking to a deaf man.

 

[GrumpyBear]

On 8/21/2019 at 8:01 AM, Garet said:

WC shouldn't even be spending any time on this.

Alliance was intended for tribal warfare.  Not so you could have private chats with your buddies or do trading.

Trading was never an intended mechanic.  If it was they would have put  infrastructure in the game to help facilitate it.

This whole Pseudo economy is a hold over from other online games and something the COMMUNITY created, that WC has to allow because its impossible to stop without doing away with tribes.

The problems with alliances for traders were created by the community.

We have a million other issues that should be addressed and they're going to waste time going through the code doing whatever they have to do to disable it.  Even if it's just a toggle in an .ini it's time wasted because you used a mechanic in a way it wasn't designed for.

There's nothing in this game that's worth 300k dust.   The best thing that happened to my island server was the old tribes moving on to Valguero.  Now buying and selling is almost non existent on my server and we basically just work together.

 

an MC 105 armor rex bp would easily be worth 300k dust.  Your argument is flawed.  Most all games have many layers of chat, if there was no alliance chat , then we'd all just see boxes in chat as people of all languages had to use global to communicate.  That tiny chat window is pretty damn small and nearly useless. Removing alliance chat would just be putting a nail in the coffin of in game chat with all the competing technologies out there.  Most companies don't work hard on a product to steer their users to other products. 

Putting in 5min , which is about all it will take to turn off the feature is worth their investment of time.  Plus, if nobody uses alliances for wars, which so far seems to be the case minus a couple edge cases, why keep it?  So there's no point in preserving the war mechanic.   Like I said before, I can set up ranks and orders of people in my tribe to have access to things or not have access to things, even just a simple lvl 10 anky, I can prohibit everyone in my tribe from riding if I want to.  There's absolutely no reason that we should then have to be exposed to any war simply because of an alliance with another tribe puts us at risk of being exposed to an insider on another tribe.  There's no way to rank an order an alliance for war powers now as it stands so it doesnt' make any sense I can lock down a lvl 10 anky, but I can't do that for an alliance.

[TheDonn]

On 8/21/2019 at 11:01 AM, Garet said:

Alliance was intended for tribal warfare.  Not so you could have private chats with your buddies or do trading.

Trading was never an intended mechanic.  If it was they would have put  infrastructure in the game to help facilitate it.

This whole Pseudo economy is a hold over from other online games and something the COMMUNITY created, that WC has to allow because its impossible to stop without doing away with tribes.

The problems with alliances for traders were created by the community.

It's an interesting thought-exercise, trying to rationally think out how the devs see the game being played.  I do it too, but mostly about PvP and the fact that even on boosted SmallTribes or Conquest (not to mention official 1x) you are still putting many many hours into taming and breeding, and building a base, but PvP is played mostly like Call of Duty with dinosaurs (if you aren't actively killing players, killing their tames, and using C4 you are playing PvP wrong).  I figure, why would they make a game with valuable creatures that are basically game-staples that take 4-8 real-life days to raise, and others that take nearly 2 weeks to raise, with the intent of them being killed in a small matter of minutes?  I don't wanna turn this into PvP VS PvE, just sharing a story, Garet. 

I don't think I've thought about PvE and alliances/trading in the way that you do.  It's interesting, I'll have to give it more thought.  But you aren't wrong.  Many problems in this game were created by the community, including the topic of this very thread.

[Garet]

4 hours ago, GrumpyBear said:

an MC 105 armor rex bp would easily be worth 300k dust.  Your argument is flawed.  Most all games have many layers of chat, if there was no alliance chat , then we'd all just see boxes in chat as people of all languages had to use global to communicate.  That tiny chat window is pretty damn small and nearly useless. Removing alliance chat would just be putting a nail in the coffin of in game chat with all the competing technologies out there.  Most companies don't work hard on a product to steer their users to other products. 

Putting in 5min , which is about all it will take to turn off the feature is worth their investment of time.  Plus, if nobody uses alliances for wars, which so far seems to be the case minus a couple edge cases, why keep it?  So there's no point in preserving the war mechanic.   Like I said before, I can set up ranks and orders of people in my tribe to have access to things or not have access to things, even just a simple lvl 10 anky, I can prohibit everyone in my tribe from riding if I want to.  There's absolutely no reason that we should then have to be exposed to any war simply because of an alliance with another tribe puts us at risk of being exposed to an insider on another tribe.  There's no way to rank an order an alliance for war powers now as it stands so it doesnt' make any sense I can lock down a lvl 10 anky, but I can't do that for an alliance.

I would not pay $300k dust for an MC rex saddle.  You remind me of the people who play on my Rag server.  I have 2 ASC Rex saddle bps, both over 100 and I didn't pay a dime for them because I actually play the game.   Solo.   On official.

 

And I didn't say anything about alliance not having chat.  I said it wasn't there for you to make an alliance just so you could have a private conversation.  I actually think WC dropped the ball by not putting direct messages in the game.

 

You shouldn't be making alliances if you're not using the war mechanic.  THAT is what it was for.  Anything else was created by the community.

[Garet]

3 hours ago, TheDonn said:

It's an interesting thought-exercise, trying to rationally think out how the devs see the game being played.  I do it too, but mostly about PvP and the fact that even on boosted SmallTribes or Conquest (not to mention official 1x) you are still putting many many hours into taming and breeding, and building a base, but PvP is played mostly like Call of Duty with dinosaurs (if you aren't actively killing players, killing their tames, and using C4 you are playing PvP wrong).  I figure, why would they make a game with valuable creatures that are basically game-staples that take 4-8 real-life days to raise, and others that take nearly 2 weeks to raise, with the intent of them being killed in a small matter of minutes?  I don't wanna turn this into PvP VS PvE, just sharing a story, Garet. 

I don't think I've thought about PvE and alliances/trading in the way that you do.  It's interesting, I'll have to give it more thought.  But you aren't wrong.  Many problems in this game were created by the community, including the topic of this very thread.

I don't play PVP and you're right the point of the thread is not PVP vs. PVE, but part of the issue DOES stem from the developers stubborn refusal to put any effort into separating the two.  All they do is nerf things and disable features when people complain.   Just like they're doing now.

[GrumpyBear]

12 minutes ago, Garet said:

I don't play PVP and you're right the point of the thread is not PVP vs. PVE, but part of the issue DOES stem from the developers stubborn refusal to put any effort into separating the two.  All they do is nerf things and disable features when people complain.   Just like they're doing now.

I see more constructive ideas here than just complaining.   Disabling a feature that almost nobody uses, to save a feature that many players do makes sense, doesn't it?  In the end it would boil down to the metrics they keep of how we play the game.  If they put all the time to code in an alliance feature, but nobody uses it because of inherent flaws - why not change it?  If what players want is the war aspect of alliances, then if they get good metrics, it would show by how much it's used.  Right now, most alliances I've heard of or have been a part of are gone or seriously trimmed to just tribes who have been on their respective servers from the start.  That is how it's used now, almost not at all.  So why not fix something that people stop using?  I'm still puzzled what the complaint is here? 

This feature, oddly enough, is one of the few things the devs did do separately for PVE.  Stating that the devs are refusing to put effort into the separation of PVE and PVP does not seem to apply too well in this situation.

[GrumpyBear]

35 minutes ago, Garet said:

I would not pay $300k dust for an MC rex saddle.  You remind me of the people who play on my Rag server.  I have 2 ASC Rex saddle bps, both over 100 and I didn't pay a dime for them because I actually play the game.   Solo.   On official.

 

And I didn't say anything about alliance not having chat.  I said it wasn't there for you to make an alliance just so you could have a private conversation.  I actually think WC dropped the ball by not putting direct messages in the game.

 

You shouldn't be making alliances if you're not using the war mechanic.  THAT is what it was for.  Anything else was created by the community.

Some of us recognize the value in half the mats used to make saddles for boss rex teams.  An asc 124 rex saddle would not be worth as much as a 105 mc one purely for the material savings used w/ a high lvl crafter (and the fact that the events and OSDs pumped out so many 124 rex saddles they are a dime a dozen).  These aren't players that make 2 saddles and they are happy, they make 40 at a time.  To those of us who do that, we understand how much it takes on official to farm and collect mats.  That dust would pay for itself easily.  And value isn't based by how much someone like yourself is unwilling to pay for it.  It's about what the market dictates.  RIght now, I could easily get 400k dust for that blueprint if I offered one up for sale.  If someone's willing to pay for it, it is worth that much.

 

They did try to come up with some creative ways to communicate w/ others, but most people dont make radios or even know that it's there.  But that's not as easy to use as an alliance chat. Which, I"m happy if people use it, because then the tiny window we have won't be cluttered up with every conversation on the server.

 

Besides the war thing, alliances are really useful for going into boss fights with others.  There's still reasons to use alliance for more than just trading , war, chat. Since almost nobody uses war.... it's going bye bye for now.  Good riddance.

[TheDonn]

On 8/21/2019 at 2:45 AM, AngrySaltire said:

Strong dragon type or even a learned rock type move would do it. 

Not fair, you switched out Ho-Oh for Kyogre?  So available Ice and Water, I am now soundly KOed.

[JasonTheCTM]

Honestly this game just gets more cutthroat as time passes. PVP spilling over into PVP because players are lazy and they think its funny, now it's tribal war abuse, but what next? At what point is it going to stop? As long as Player 1 can disrupt player 10 in any way, people will do it, you need only look at human history, we're a bunch of A$$holes by nature. I hate to say it but anymore playing PVE, you might as well play the game *as if* you were playing PVP because at some point someone somewhere is going to start shart. I mean on extinction we literally have to have  a Tek Forcefield on at max settings ON PVE (which is expensive as Hell's air conditioning bill) Because it has render priority so no one can lag thru it and steal our Giga eggs.It's not ok, it's not fun, I play PVE because I can only log on once or twice a week if that, not play 24/7 because at any moment we can get bombed by C4 turtles, dodos with swamp fever, Lagagarmrs and titans.

[Garet]

17 hours ago, GrumpyBear said:

If someone's willing to pay for it, it is worth that much.

No, it's not.  People make bad purchases all the time.

 

For example, lots of people paid $60 for this game thinking they were getting a triple A game experience.  Instead they got a horrible, bug ridden mess, that you don't want to leave because you'd literally be throwing away 100's of hours of your life.

 

I got a better idea.  If someone needs saddles made they can ask and me or one of any of 10 other tribes on any given island server that would be happy to make them saddles at the cost of mats and they can keep their 300 element on top of it?  It's a survival game, not ebay marketplace.

[Joebl0w13]

This thread started for a reason. That reason has been handled by WildCard.

It's now drifted into the tired ye 'ol pillars bad discussion.