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RipRavage

Creatures with Taming Melee Penalty

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Creatures with Taming Melee Penalty

So we all know the Giga takes a post tame penalty to it's stats, but I've noticed recently that several other creatures also take a hit to melee percentage after tame.  I've noticed for sure that Ravengers and Mantis take a huge penalty to their melee, and I have suspicions that Gigantopithecus take a melee penalty as well.  I've perfect tamed tons of LV 150 mantis and Gigantopithecus and have never gotten a single one with a melee over 250, also note that all of them have a pretame stat of at least 210 melee.  The wiki and dododex don't really seem to have any conclusive info on what the penalty percentage actually is or if they even exist, so my question to anyone with any insight is do these creatures take a taming penalty to melee and what other creatures have you noticed taking a melee penalty other than the ones I mentioned above?  Also, what is the highest melee you have gotten on a mantis or a gigantopithecus before imprinting or mutations.

Edited by RipRavage

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The Mantis, Ravager or Gigantopithecus do not receives any kind of nerfs post-tame. They just have lower increase compared to other species so their damage looks lower but is actually the same amount of points. For example, a Mantis have 34 base melee and a 0.85 increase per wild point. Meaning that the displayed % increase is only 2.5%:

(34 / 100) * 0.85 = 2.5

Compared to other species such as Rex that have an increase of 5%, etc. the tamed melee can seems lower but is actually the same amount of points. For example and comparison, the equivalence of a 372.8% melee Rex would be a 249.3% melee Mantis.

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38 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

The Mantis, Ravager or Gigantopithecus do not receives any kind of nerfs post-tame. They just have lower increase compared to other species so their damage looks lower but is actually the same amount of points. For example, a Mantis have 34 base melee and a 0.85 increase per wild point. Meaning that the displayed % increase is only 2.5%:


(34 / 100) * 0.85 = 2.5

Compared to other species such as Rex that have an increase of 5%, etc. the tamed melee can seems lower but is actually the same amount of points. For example and comparison, the equivalence of a 372.8% melee Rex would be a 249.3% melee Mantis.

Thanks for the info, unfortunately that sounds even worse than them just taking a flat taming penalty like the giga.  I understand it sort of for the Mantis since it can wield melee weapons, but the Gigantopithecus is just pointless.  I like how they just refuse to adjust the base melee damage with most of these creatures and just screw up their percentages and stat growth, thats how they messed up the tamed ravager after people were complaining about the wild ones being to OP.

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49 minutes ago, BlueberryJackal said:

You are confusing me a bit. What exactly are you talking about? That creatures like the mantis get less melee on top of the melee they had at the wild state, or that they actually lose melee, like the Giga. So like from 100% to 75% post tame?

I thought they might be like the griffin where they take major stat penalties after taming, apparently they just have super horrible stat growth rates.

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51 minutes ago, RipRavage said:

I thought they might be like the griffin where they take major stat penalties after taming, apparently they just have super horrible stat growth rates.

They probably have these nerfed growth rates, because of their utiliy and abilities.

The Ravager has a pretty good damage output, good stamina, good weight and it can climb vines. With normal growth rates it would be a bit OP(?)

The Mantis can be equipped with tools, as you mentioned above, and deals 120 damage with the secondary attack. Thats a lot.

The Gigantopithecus also has a good damage with a high knockback and attack speed. And it can be equipped with hats, which means it can be equipped with 11 "saddles". And now imagine finding a MC Flak helmet or AC chitin helmet, and you have a tank with high damage output, that is tameable when you reach lvl30. Let that sink in a bit.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, BlueberryJackal said:

They probably have these nerfed growth rates, because of their utiliy and abilities.

The Ravager has a pretty good damage output, good stamina, good weight and it can climb vines. With normal growth rates it would be a bit OP(?)

The Mantis can be equipped with tools, as you mentioned above, and deals 120 damage with the secondary attack. Thats a lot.

The Gigantopithecus also has a good damage with a high knockback and attack speed. And it can be equipped with hats, which means it can be equipped with 11 "saddles". And now imagine finding a MC Flak helmet or AC chitin helmet, and you have a tank with high damage output, that is tameable when you reach lvl30. Let that sink in a bit.

Problem number one with the argument for the Gigantopithecus is that a base attack of 40 isn't too crazy compared to other tames like direbears or direwolves, who are roughly in the same ballpark or better(much better in DPS).

Problem number two is that the helmets they can wear get damaged meaning they constantly have to be repaired, unlike saddles which have no durability.

These two major issues mean there is literally no reason I would bother using a gigantopithecus with such huge penalties against them versus other creatures which are just as good.  I would even argue that the Mantis nerf is ridiculous too based on the simple fact that THEY CANT BREED.  Mantises are compeltly blocked from ever reaching a competative level with other tames because they are blocked by no imprinting and no mutations.  I've gotten around the nerf on ravagers by getting mutations on them, I cant do that with a mantis.  Both the Mantis and the Gigantopithecus just are not worth it just to have what basically amounts to a weaker allosaurus with a tiny amount of utility.

I get the whole you get them early thing, but realistically everybody in this game power levels, so level requirements or "STARTER TAME" talks in this game are just goofy.  Nobody is really sitting at level 30 for too long in ARK.  Not to mention we are talking about a tame that used to take Titanboa kibble, which used to be a major pain in the ass to get, so I doubt anybody was getting a good level ape early on in their playthrough.

Edited by RipRavage

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RipRavage said:

Problem number one with the argument for the Gigantopithecus is that a base attack of 40 isn't too crazy compared to other tames like direbears or direwolves, who are roughly in the same ballpark or better(much better in DPS).

Problem number two is that the helmets they can wear get damaged meaning they constantly have to be repaired, unlike saddles which have no durability.

These two major issues mean there is literally no reason I would bother using a gigantopithecus with such huge penalties against them versus other creatures which are just as good.  I would even argue that the Mantis nerf is ridiculous too based on the simple fact that THEY CANT BREED.  Mantises are compeltly blocked from ever reaching a competative level with other tames because they are blocked by no imprinting and no mutations.  I've gotten around the nerf on ravagers by getting mutations on them, I cant do that with a mantis.  Both the Mantis and the Gigantopithecus just are not worth it just to have what basically amounts to a weaker allosaurus with a tiny amount of utility.

I get the whole you get them early thing, but realistically everybody in this game power levels, so level requirements or "STARTER TAME" talks in this game are just goofy.  Nobody is really sitting at level 30 for too long in ARK.  Not to mention we are talking about a tame that used to take Titanboa kibble, which used to be a major pain in the ass to get, so I doubt anybody was getting a good level ape early on in their playthrough.

Unfortunately what you described "literally no reason I would bother using" also applies to the majority of creatures in this game. There is a very small set of dinos that are the best at everything and which make using the rest pretty pointless. A perfect example is the Troodon. Why would you bother going through the expensive and difficult effort of taming one of those when you can far more easily tame the Owl that is basically a flying rideable Troodon with tonnes more health, can pick up stuff, has good weight so on.

The devs didn't think too much when they went ahead and added all these creatures to the game. There was no checks to see if Dino A is going to make Dino B pointless.

Edited by ForzaProiettile
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12 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Unfortunately what you described "literally no reason I would bother using" also applies to the majority of creatures in this game. There is a very small set of dinos that are the best at everything and which make using the rest pretty pointless. A perfect example is the Troodon. Why would you bother going through the expensive and difficult effort of taming one of those when you can far more easily tame the Owl that is basically a flying rideable Troodon with tonnes more health, can pick up stuff, has good weight so on.

The devs didn't think too much when they went ahead and added all these creatures to the game. There was no checks to see if Dino A is going to make Dino B pointless.

It sucks that my reasoning for using a lot of the creatures in game ends up being “RolePlay”

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On 8/4/2019 at 7:19 AM, invincibleqc said:

The Mantis, Ravager or Gigantopithecus do not receives any kind of nerfs post-tame. They just have lower increase compared to other species so their damage looks lower but is actually the same amount of points. For example, a Mantis have 34 base melee and a 0.85 increase per wild point. Meaning that the displayed % increase is only 2.5%:


(34 / 100) * 0.85 = 2.5

Compared to other species such as Rex that have an increase of 5%, etc. the tamed melee can seems lower but is actually the same amount of points. For example and comparison, the equivalence of a 372.8% melee Rex would be a 249.3% melee Mantis.

The math is not correct, I think

0.85/34=2.5%

This is the correct one, right?

However dododex displays 5%, why is that?

A 40 wild points mantis should therefore have little more than 100+2.5%*40=200% attack after taming (neglecting bonuses), or  100+5%*40=300%?

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1 hour ago, Giorgino87 said:

The math is not correct, I think

0.85/34=2.5%

This is the correct one, right?

A 40 wild points mantis should therefore have little more than 100+2.5%*40=200% attack after taming (neglecting bonuses), or  100+5%*40=300%?

This is the calculation:

((100 + (40 * 2.5)) + 7) * 1.176 = 243.4 // Assuming you have 100% effectiveness.

 

1 hour ago, Giorgino87 said:

However dododex displays 5%, why is that?

Because that tool is unfortunately inaccurate on so many level.

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