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Cedric

Feedback on July Beta

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Feedback on July Beta

Please keep your discussion related to the changes in the patch below:

 - Longneck rifle damage adjusted to have armor penetration
 - Fab sniper damage adjusted to have light armor penetration
 - Set Ice Titan freeze to last approximately 12 seconds
 - Plant Y should trap a player or tamed dino for 10 seconds max
 - Adjusted Shadow Steak Saute to no longer increase a players sensitivity to light (all other affects remain the same)
 - Set Forest Kaiju vine grab to not grab Mek riders
 - Prevented Forest Kaiju vine grab from going through Tek Forcefields (it will still grab through mek shields though)

 

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All of these changes are fantastic, a numeric value on the amount of armor penetration would be nice. (IE: X amount of ignore armor) So we can just do the math on how much damage a Rifle will do either way.

Is the Ice Titan Freeze still Spam clickable to get out quicker?


This is a good start, but this list needs to be a hell of a lot longer to get people out of Caves.
 

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4 minutes ago, JoseSanchez said:

All of these changes are fantastic, a numeric value on the amount of armor penetration would be nice. (IE: X amount of ignore armor) So we can just do the math on how much damage a Rifle will do either way.

Is the Ice Titan Freeze still Spam clickable to get out quicker?


This is a good start, but this list needs to be a hell of a lot longer to get people out of Caves.
 

Good feedback!

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@CedricHonestly the beta branch is a long awaited addition, I think it will be great for understanding the meta Wildcard wants the game to have. The changes listed here are all fantastic, the only thing I would recommend to be added tot his list for now is a fix for snow owl and mek debuff spam. I'd also be interested in the values of armor penetration Jose was talking about. 

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion, the 10 second trap time of plant y is too low, I assume it is made in order to prevent naked players from being stuck for a longer time and in order to make it easier to rescue tames, but maybe adjust it instead to 1 of this other approaches or a combination of those. All should have similar effects and should help with balancing:
-for players 10secounds + per 10 weight, the character has additional  2-10 seconds stuck time(would need some testing), at a certain weight, you can expect players from having flame arrows or torches and this prevents naked players from staying there too long.
-for tames: if you set the tame that is stuck in the y trap on fire, it also damages the y trap, that will make it easier to rescue tames safely and fixes sometimes problems with flame arrows not registering hits on the y trap and so has the desired effect of saving dinos, but this would mean that the timer doesn't need to be that low and could be increased for dinos
- for tames double/triple the time they are stuck, within 10 seconds you normally are not able to kill or do a lot of damage to a trapped dino, which means there is no real punishment for being uncareful and running into y traps
-during lag improve the performance(reloading) of crossbows and registering of flame arrow hits so you can hit y traps better and don't take to long to escape
-for players without flame arrows(e.g. since no map with the required resources is available on the server)/access to those, it might be good to increase the damage with torches against y traps so those can also escape fastly

Edited by dabo1

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They seem like good changes, I haven't tested the beta branch yet, but I would like to put out there that whilst being able to damage players through flak is a welcome change, health regen is still quite high with med brews which I believe should have a 40second or so cooldown. Maybe there could be a collaboration with deathmatch mods to have some sort of tourney utilising the beta branch to see how it plays out?

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2 hours ago, Bob said:

They seem like good changes, I haven't tested the beta branch yet, but I would like to put out there that whilst being able to damage players through flak is a welcome change, health regen is still quite high with med brews which I believe should have a 40second or so cooldown. Maybe there could be a collaboration with deathmatch mods to have some sort of tourney utilising the beta branch to see how it plays out?

Absolutely not, do u want everyone to die in 2 shots? Armor penetration on long necks sure that's good, and light penetration with fabbys are always welcome, but u need to leave health alone after that. And I hope this new update won't affect dinos armor as its already easy enough to tame snipe 

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Posted (edited)

(official pvp) Good to see small changes being tested out. Longnecks definitely need armor penetration as currently they are completely useless against players and all saddled tames. A numeric number on the armor penetration would be nice so we can calculate how much damage they will do now. I do however hope that we will get a weight change for certain items soon (FLAK, Plantz) as over the years the ground pvpers kit has been getting heavier and heavier, tames requiring more ammunition to kill, enemy with tek suits. most tames 1 hit or two hit you now (even with 1k dura flak), and if this longneck update is good, we are going to have to sacrifice either more movement speed or weight to pump our HP.

With regards to titan balancing I would like to suggest simply limiting 1 titan per server, In raids Its kinda overpowering and rather unfortunate that either an attacker or defender can get 3 titans at once (which is what makes titans very unpopular within the official community) simply due to RNG, and luck. Because if you continuously nerf each titan, they will lose their "oh poop" factor. While 1 titan is manageable.

I think the Tree titan grab change is great and would like to see brontos not be able to be grabbed by that titan. They are the largest herbivore in the game, but they are the most useless soaker in the game, their saddle armor is too low, saddle too expensive, the tame for some reason takes bonus damage from tek turrets compared to the more mobile and efficient paracers, and they can be knockbacked by practically anything. They have been useless now for almost 2 years. Their massive size should have some sort of benefit to defenders or attackers in raids. Making them immune to tree grab would be a fantastic step in the right direction and would allow them to be useful in holding chokes like dessert plateau. 

I have played official for a long time, and I am not a personal fan of meks but one thing that I could not understand is why a forcefield cannot be placed too close to another, but meks can overlap their extremely big and strong shield that can debuff enemies. 
 

One thing that Im shocked isnt addressed in the beta is fence supports,From 1 metal run (double cap of raw metal) you can make 12,000 fence supports. For comparison you can only make 1,200 metal foundations from that same metal run, yet the fence supports can claim land and are arguably harder to destroy because they can be placed on the side of cliffs, mountains and sunk halfway into their mesh.

All those beta changes look positive, and bring a small sigh of relief to official players.

Edited by Ironpancakemoose
grammer

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I did a little testing on the beta branch and the changes don't really seem significant or meta changing in my opinion.

A capped fab (298dmg) does 25 dmg per shot to a player with a 450 helm.
A  360 dmg longneck 450 helm does 80 dmg, which is the dmg rifle you'd get from a capped bp with good crafting skill roll.

The damage is still quite low and going to be hard to kill players when they can heal 40 HP in 5s from brews, recovering from a longneck hs in 10 seconds and with players on official having 300-400 hp theyd need to be shot in the head 4-5 times with an overcapped longneck assuming they have a good helmet to die, not including the health they regain from brews. This to me seems a bit unrealistic and I feel like a good longneck (298 dmg+) should kill a player in 1/2 hits to the head, with a fab taking 5/6. 

As a side note, on the test server the forcetame command doesnt seem to be working and armour durability doesnt reduce when taking damage.

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Posted (edited)

All if the ideas suggested sound like they would be beneficial to players and bring positive changes to the game. 

My only concern is when you say :

Longneck rifle damage adjusted to have armor penetration

Will the amor penetration of the longneck/fab sniper only affect player worn armor? Or will it also affect armor on dino saddles? 

Edited by myksta0121

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Posted (edited)

Forest shouldnt be able to pick through mek shields or his range should be reduced, its to op still

Based on what bob saied, armor penetration should be higher, at least 200hp with a 300 dmg longneck, its not easy to headshot, almost impossible at long ranges, when people have 200 movement speed, beside that people have medbrews that recover a lot and it takes a long time to shoot again, so you'll need 2-3 headshoots at least anyway

Of course you cant give 200hp on the body, 50 might be balanced, with the med brews and 250 hp you still probably need around 8/9+ shoots to kill

Also i think it would be a great idea to open a topic for sugestions, since i believe 90% of the players have some ideas and it could be of great value for you

Edited by xXVingasXx

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For the Longneck change, it still needs a bigger buff, its just not enough damage and wont be enough to kill anyone on official pvp with the current stats of armor. 

Same with the fab sniper, it will not be enough to kill someone even if you hit 8/8 to a capped helmet with a capped fab sniper. 

A better way to buff weapons would be to increase the weapon damage cap in my opinion, with the current stats of flak on official a 298% dmg fab sniper is basically useless when you need to hit more than 1 mag to break their armor. Im not sure what you intend on doing by changing the fab sniper penetration, do you want us to kill people through their armor or break their armor and then kill them? (Would be nice with an answer to that) 

The ice titan change seems good because it lasted for a stupid amount of time before, havent gotten to test it yet.

Changes to plant y are good for players, but for dinos i think it needs to last longer. With the changes that are made to plant Z, foot pvp is very hard. Most dinos are already incredibly strong and a therizino, rhino and managarmrs with well bred stats do stupid amounts of damage to player. (I know it is a dino game, but i think there still needs to be a good balance because people like both) 

Forest titan changes seem really good, will be interesting to see how it plays out in a big war. 

Like Jose said, this list still needs to be ALOT longer to be able to make people have any reason to not live in a cave. I think there should be a game suggestions thread related to pvp changes that the community want to see. 

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Also a popular alternative for giving the fabby armor penetration, would be increasing the damage cap by 25%(mc only) 50%(asc only) which would resolve the issue of fabs being only journeymen. Removing the fire rate would allow us to dramatically increase our dps and help prevent the enemy from just simply crawling away, standing up and walking away, using a macro to switch flak. As currently the enemy has to stand still for a solid 6 seconds to possibly die to a fabby.

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On 7/8/2019 at 9:18 PM, Cedric said:

Feedback on July Beta

Please keep your discussion related to the changes in the patch below:


- Adjusted Shadow Steak Saute to no longer increase a players sensitivity to light (all other affects remain the same)

 

What's the reasoning behind this? Is it only because some players complained about their vision being too bright when they were using it during daytime? Because quite frankly, I've been using it into some caves because the vision is so much better than the night-vision itself. Here is the current comparison:

Normal vision:

A2713589384559F054C706B941E0DD2BDAA42ECA

Shadow Steak vision:

8C4265412ACB6AEC9B1ED0B6ECB6BC99A717A69B

Night Vision Goggles:

F8AA42C7A033A378456B9E67FDE12C84D9DF0718

I would rather use gamma over the night-vision because it is really annoying to me. Perhaps the current vision effect of the Shadow Steak could be split into its own recipe rather than totally removed?

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6 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

What's the reasoning behind this? Is it only because some players complained about their vision being too bright when they were using it during daytime? Because quite frankly, I've been using it into some caves because the vision is so much better than the night-vision itself. Here is the current comparison:

Normal vision:

A2713589384559F054C706B941E0DD2BDAA42ECA

Shadow Steak vision:

8C4265412ACB6AEC9B1ED0B6ECB6BC99A717A69B

Night Vision Goggles:

F8AA42C7A033A378456B9E67FDE12C84D9DF0718

I would rather use gamma over the night-vision because it is really annoying to me. Perhaps the current vision effect of the Shadow Steak could be split into its own recipe rather than totally removed?

Just type in gamma 5. Shadow steak was really annoying to use for raids in scorched earth or rag dessert plateu. Because of the weird brightness that it caused.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ironpancakemoose said:

Just type in gamma 5. Shadow steak was really annoying to use for raids in scorched earth or rag dessert plateu. Because of the weird brightness that it caused.

Like I said, I would rather use gamma over the night-vision, but the Shadow Steak is still way cleaner than gamma. This is gamma:

014A43BF7C6390AD8229B83B99E8B18DC9715D79

And just to add more comparison to the table, this is the Tek Helmet:

7CA6A98CB4CBCC6818F08F4F0DC9391D1B39CFD0

All screenshots were taken at 00:00 and as you can see, there is simply nothing that is as clear as the current vision of the Shadow Steak. All others alternative are either aggressive for the eyes or very annoying. I can understand that having it removed from the other bonuses of the Shadow Steak might be needed, but I would also like it to remain as its own recipe as suggested above.

Edited by invincibleqc

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Posted (edited)

Armor pen needs to be increased for the longnecks and probably also the fabs. I think a max damage fab 298% should be able to kill someone if you hit all 8 shots on the body, maybe 4-5 shots for headshot. Normal official player HP is around 300-350

Edited by DVSR

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Plant Y should trap a player or tamed dino for 10 seconds max

The automatic release time of the Y plant is very low, the current time is perfect because with fire arrows it can be released, the perfect thing would be to look at the Y plant, press the "E" key for 10 seconds and be able to be released or free your dino (In case you do not have fire arrows or torch), since the main function of the plant Y is to catch your enemy and kill him, in case of falling on a plant And without enemies nearby, it would be excellent power free yourself from the trap by pressing for a while some telca, this could apply with a longer time for the bear traps.

Titans should not be for pvp, only to collect resources and farm drops, without damage to structures.

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Does the sensitivity to light only affect daytime? If not that is a ridiculous change, I play on a no gamma server and shadow steaks are a godsend, considering you allow gamma on official, doing that as a "rebalance" would make no sense.

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