Breeding Lines

[Cythraul]

Breeding Lines

I looked for advice on breeding on this forum but could not find any so thought I would create a topic dedicated to tips and information about breeding.

First, I have watched videos on breeding and semi understand the whole "wild dino starting stats" concept and the idea of points being "wasted" in movement speed (that is a question I have too, are points still wasted in movement speed or was their an update because my dinos have above 100% movement speed and I have the option to invest points into that category as well.)

The main topic that I dont understand and need to know more about is starting a new breeding line.

I get the idea of breeding, selecting the offspring that inherited best stats and breeding them with other offspring that have other good stats but what qualifies a dino as "breeding line worthy". I read posts about people saying that they don't have thylas that are ready to start a breeding line and that their dinos stats are not right yet to start a line. Is there a chart somewhere that shows all the ideal stats to start a line with or is it just trial and error because that seems like a waste of time.

Another question, people talk about their breeding lines being "ready" for mutations. Aren't mutations random and could happen with every breeding? Or do mutations only happen when a dino has been bread many, many times over?

These are some of my main observations and questions but I would be interested in any answers, add ons, or advice that you pros have gained over the course of your ARK experience.

Thanks!

[yekrucifixion187]

21 minutes ago, Cythraul said:

Breeding Lines

I looked for advice on breeding on this forum but could not find any so thought I would create a topic dedicated to tips and information about breeding.

 

There are 221 results if you just search the word breeding in the title alone.

If you click on many of those, there is a bevy of information.

To help though;

Wild tamed movement speed will show 100% but levels are still placed in it. Likewise, you may get a speed mutation while breeding but it doesn't increase it.

Download the free program Ark Smart Breeder. It can help you track your lines as well as show you a leveled tames base stats. 

Breed worthy is subjective. For me, I won't start breeding for mutations until the desired stat has 45 levels without mutations. Some people are ok with 40.  Some want at least 50. I do still raise one for personal use early on because an imprinted dino is just better.

Mutations are indeed random. Search for a post from InvincibleQC where he breaks down some of the math behind it but in a nutshell more breeding gives you more chances since it is ultimately a numbers game.

Typically, you want the stat you are trying to mutate on a male. That way you can breed with as many females as you want to try and mutate that stat. More eggs, more chances. 

It's time intensive but when you get that mutation it's very rewarding and then you're back at it for the next one. 

Look a little more on this site. There's lots of info about breeding plus helpful links. 

 

[Fulki]

17 minutes ago, Cythraul said:

Breeding Lines

I looked for advice on breeding on this forum but could not find any so thought I would create a topic dedicated to tips and information about breeding.

First, I have watched videos on breeding and semi understand the whole "wild dino starting stats" concept and the idea of points being "wasted" in movement speed (that is a question I have too, are points still wasted in movement speed or was their an update because my dinos have above 100% movement speed and I have the option to invest points into that category as well.)

The main topic that I dont understand and need to know more about is starting a new breeding line.

I get the idea of breeding, selecting the offspring that inherited best stats and breeding them with other offspring that have other good stats but what qualifies a dino as "breeding line worthy". I read posts about people saying that they don't have thylas that are ready to start a breeding line and that their dinos stats are not right yet to start a line. Is there a chart somewhere that shows all the ideal stats to start a line with or is it just trial and error because that seems like a waste of time.

Another question, people talk about their breeding lines being "ready" for mutations. Aren't mutations random and could happen with every breeding? Or do mutations only happen when a dino has been bread many, many times over?

These are some of my main observations and questions but I would be interested in any answers, add ons, or advice that you pros have gained over the course of your ARK experience.

Thanks!

What qualifies a dino as breeding worthy? As far as tamed dinos go, any dino with a large amount of points in any one of the more useful stats (Heath, Melee, Stam. On most creatures) So that they can be bred to other dinos with large amounts of points in another useful stat. So like breeding a 49 point into melee rex that has... let's say 23 points into health with a 13 points into melee rex with 47 points into health to make a 49 points into melee 47 points into health rex. Then for the wasted points people just would take let's say a 0 point into oxygen rex and breed it with the 49 M 47 HP rex. Once this has been done with all stats people will start to try to get two rexes with the same stats to make spotting mutations easier. Once that has happened, then congrads! Your line is mutation ready.

Mutations can occur anytime two dinos are bred, but most mutations are thrown away early in the creation of a dino line unless it makes the dino better (so like the highest HP got a mutation)

It does take a lot of breeding sometimes to get muts, but it does not take generations of dinos to get a single mutation. Two tamed Spinos can produce mutated offspring.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I am horrible at explaining things.

 

[d1nk]

2 hours ago, Fulki said:

What qualifies a dino as breeding worthy? As far as tamed dinos go, any dino with a large amount of points in any one of the more useful stats (Heath, Melee, Stam. On most creatures) So that they can be bred to other dinos with large amounts of points in another useful stat. So like breeding a 49 point into melee rex that has... let's say 23 points into health with a 13 points into melee rex with 47 points into health to make a 49 points into melee 47 points into health rex. Then for the wasted points people just would take let's say a 0 point into oxygen rex and breed it with the 49 M 47 HP rex. Once this has been done with all stats people will start to try to get two rexes with the same stats to make spotting mutations easier. Once that has happened, then congrads! Your line is mutation ready.

Mutations can occur anytime two dinos are bred, but most mutations are thrown away early in the creation of a dino line unless it makes the dino better (so like the highest HP got a mutation)

It does take a lot of breeding sometimes to get muts, but it does not take generations of dinos to get a single mutation. Two tamed Spinos can produce mutated offspring.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I am horrible at explaining things.

 

@Cythraul

This explains it very well. To add to this: you can breed them at any time.. the reason people say "ready to breed" just is either a certain stat threshold they met by taming or they have some good stats through a bunch of wilds they will combine. You could in theory just tame any two say.. rexs and have them with okay stats (say 9k hp 320 melee) - breed the crap out of them and mutate them to say 11k hp 400 melee (not too hard) then be ready for most bosses besides a few alphas (alpha ape can be owned with those stats easily) 

Remember these are base stats obviously

[Cymas]

Breeding is simultaneously one of the easiest and hardest things about Ark. Questions about it pop up all the time, a quick search will bring up dozens of threads on the topic.

First, your question about movement speed: yes, dinos still put points into movement speed even though they don't count. That's why the points are wasted. The exception to this is birds, who put no points into movement speed and thus are actually easier to work with, because you can start a line at a much higher base level than other creatures.

To actually start a bloodline, the concept is easy to understand and difficult to execute. Basically you need to tame all of the highest level animals of that species you come across. Most videos you watch will gloss over this part because it's tedious and repetitive and doesn't make for interesting content for most people. What you're looking for is very specific. Most dinos will be fairly well rounded in terms of stats; they have a fairly even distribution of points, nothing stands out. But sometimes, sometimes you'll get an animal with one stat that is much higher than the rest, at the cost of their other stats being lower. This makes them perfect for breeding, but terrible as an actual usable mount. The real grind is finding these high level animals with high rolls in the stats you want. For boss-capable rexes, for example, you only need HP and melee; since they won't be ridden they don't need stamina or weight.

As for what constitutes breedable stats? It depends on a combination of factors. How many animals you can find to tame, your game/server settings, and your own level of patience about how long you want to keep hunting for and taming wilds. There is of course a point of diminishing returns where the chances of finding something better is too low to be worthwhile. The general rule of thumb is 40+ points in a target stat is good enough, but you can push as high as 50+ if you're really dedicated about it.

One way to look at it is you can spend the time upfront with taming or on the back end with breeding; it depends on how much you like to gamble. Taming can potentially advance your line by several levels at a time, but breeding when done properly is more reliable. So it's mainly preference as to when you actually start breeding.

As far as getting a line ready for mutations, I'm sure you probably read that in one of my posts. What I mean is a combination of factors: I'm happy with the base stats I have and don't plan on taming any more animals, I've already successfully combined the stats into one animal, and actually have a breeding pair at the same base level. The reason why the last part is important is for mass breeding. If both of your breeding animals have the same stats, it makes mutations super easy to spot. So when you're hatching lots of eggs at the same time, you don't need to claim and check every single baby. You just look at their levels and pick out the ones that are 2 levels higher than the rest. Mutations are 2 levels in a random stat. So if the parents are both level 248 for example, I only care about the babies that hatch at level 250 (or higher; double mutations are rare but possible). Then I just eat the rest of the babies to get rid of them (this works on SP if you don't have the PVE box checked).

[DeHammer]

11 hours ago, Cythraul said:

I get the idea of breeding, selecting the offspring that inherited best stats and breeding them with other offspring that have other good stats but what qualifies a dino as "breeding line worthy".

Simply put... any stat that's important to you and is better than what you currently have in your breeding line. If your the Melee Damage on your Giga breeding line is 170%, and you tame a Giga with a 200% Melee Damage, then its worth breeding that stat into your line. 

My advice, get the Super Spyglass mod if you play unofficial and don't have it already. Its fantastic when you're hunting for potential tames to add to your breeding line. 

[DeHammer]

11 hours ago, Cythraul said:

Another question, people talk about their breeding lines being "ready" for mutations. Aren't mutations random and could happen with every breeding? Or do mutations only happen when a dino has been bread many, many times over?

 

First you look for stats to add to your line without introducing any mutations. Put mutations aside or kill them if not great mutations. Adding un-mutated stats to your line is relatively easy and the jumps in stats value can be quite meaningful. For instance, your Rexes have a 35 in Health Points then you find a new Rex and tame it and it has a 45 in Health Points. That's a leap forward equal to 5 mutations. Mutating is slow train - lots of work and very small steps forward. You generally get two levels worth of stat value increase per successful mutation.

Rough guideline... if the max level of dinos on your server is 150, I'd look for stats values over 40. For instance, after some breeding my Spinos have two '42 stats (Health & Melee Damage) and two '40' stats (Stamina & Oxygen). No mutations yet. Going to try to further the unmutated stats breeding first, then mutated them later.

[DeHammer]

12 hours ago, Cythraul said:

 

I looked for advice on breeding on this forum but could not find...

 

@Cythraul

Check out the guide I put together. Basically it offers a rough 'framework' to help gain perspective on the breeding process.

 

[Cythraul]

Your replies were very informative and helpful.

I typed breeding into the search and got about 2,000 results initially but most of what I scrolled through was about "what do you think of new this or new that" and "suggestions for breeding rework". I limited it to titles after reading @yekrucifixion187 reply and realized that there in fact was some helpful info so I apologize for adding a repeat topic.

Thanks!