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JIMJOB

developers Leaving a solo tribe

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Leaving a solo tribe

Hey just want to let you all know, as I found out today. If you go to a new server and start a tribe before you plan to join your official tribe, DO NOT leave that tribe while riding a dino. This game just took my best wyvern from me because of that.

Was flying over to meet my Tribe Leader, and thought, "before i get there i'll leave this tribe I JUST STARTED" only to be stranded 100's of feet in the air on my wyv, that was now belonging to a tribe noone is in...... Broken.... now I get to hope it survives long enough for a GM to help me.. hahah yah right. 

 

Worst thing about this game is i watch the same kid get 10 gigs at a time, then i have an issue and ill be left waiting... Smh

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Yep, not broken.

They have the merge option to carry over your stuff. 

You made a mistake but I know others have accidentally left their tribe before and received help. Hopefully you do too, though if your ticket reads the same as this post, unwarranted blame on the devs, I would think they might take their time with it.

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You 2 need to get over yourselves. Yes it is a bug. 

Any game developer with sanity would code it in a way that when the last person leaves a tribe, all remaining dinos go back to that last member as personal owner.

This is like common sense. Hence why so many people think it should be ok to leave.

Stop sucking up to the failures of the dev team. You aren't getting brownie points.

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Just now, Aikar said:

You 2 need to get over yourselves. Yes it is a bug. 

Any game developer with sanity would code it in a way that when the last person leaves a tribe, all remaining dinos go back to that last member as personal owner.

This is like common sense. Hence why so many people think it should be ok to leave.

Stop sucking up to the failures of the dev team. You aren't getting brownie points.

Shut up. 

They have merge, they have leave.

He made the wrong choice. 

It's not a bug. Get over yourself and hold the devs accountable for their actual mistakes not this basic stuff. 

No wonder the important stuff gets glossed over. You are lambasting them for your own fault in this case (not you specifically but since you wanted to voice your erroneous opinion).

The dino didn't fall into the mesh. The dino didn't jump out of the map. It didn't starve despite plenty of food nor did it fall to it's death due to a lag spike. Those are warranted complaints.

The guy made a wrong choice. Should have merged his tribe or never created one when you're joining one in such short order. That's ark 101.

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Worst thing about this game is i watch the same kid get 10 gigs at a time, then i have an issue and ill be left waiting... Smh.   ...this part is the part I'm most interested  in... GM dino spawns in 10 gigas hmm wc u haven't learned  your lesson yet smh

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36 minutes ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

Shut up. 

They have merge, they have leave.

He made the wrong choice. 

It's not a bug. Get over yourself and hold the devs accountable for their actual mistakes not this basic stuff. 

No wonder the important stuff gets glossed over. You are lambasting them for your own fault in this case (not you specifically but since you wanted to voice your erroneous opinion).

The dino didn't fall into the mesh. The dino didn't jump out of the map. It didn't starve despite plenty of food nor did it fall to it's death due to a lag spike. Those are warranted complaints.

The guy made a wrong choice. Should have merged his tribe or never created one when you're joining one in such short order. That's ark 101.

it takes a few hours to fix this problem and save countless amount of trouble. (Tip: I'm a Senior Engineer myself. This is a trivial problem to fix)

I live in the software development world. When a user choice can result in an undesired result to the user, you ASK FOR CONFIRMATION, Informing them what WILL happen. In this case, there's no reason to even NEED the undesired result. In just a few lines of code, (seriously, this should take like 15 lines of code:

function onLeaveTribe(tribe) {
  if (tribe.members.length == 1) {
    foreach (tribe.dinos as dino) { 
      dino.setPersonalOwner(tribeLeader);
      dino.setTribeOwner(null);
    }
    // repeat for structures.
  }
}

When this contract is not met, it is a bug. Your opinion on it being a bug doesn't matter vs facts.

There is no warning in game that this would happen. This can not be expected for players to know until they hear about it or witness it first hand.

 

 

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18 hours ago, yekrucifixion187 said:

He made the wrong choice.

...

The guy made a wrong choice. Should have merged his tribe or never created one when you're joining one in such short order. That's ark 101.

You are correct, it's not a bug, but in this case being right doesn't matter.

And that's because it's a bad design choice. The very fact that this has been happening to people since the beginning of Early Access and continues to happen to people all the time is all the information needed to show that the dev's have made a design choice that is not intuitive for lots of people and should be implemented better.

It's really quite simple - if there is only one single person in a tribe then when they leave the tribe there needs to be a lot more useful information for them on the screen. There is no tutorial on this problem, there is not enough information that makes it clear to inexperienced players that they're about to get screwed out of everything that belongs to their 1-person tribe. This has happened hundreds and hundreds (maybe even many thousands) of times since this game began, which should be a huge clue to WC that they're doing it wrong.

It should be obvious that simply having "Leave" or "Merge" as the available options is not good enough, because if it was good enough then this wouldn't be an ongoing problem for the game.

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4 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

You are correct, it's not a bug, but in this case being right doesn't matter.

 And that's because it's a bad design choice. The very fact that this has been happening to people since the beginning of Early Access and continues to happen to people all the time is all the information needed to show that the dev's have made a design choice that is not intuitive for lots of people and should be implemented better.

 It's really quite simple - if there is only one single person in a tribe then when they leave the tribe there needs to be a lot more useful information for them on the screen. There is no tutorial on this problem, there is not enough information that makes it clear to inexperienced players that they're about to get screwed out of everything that belongs to their 1-person tribe. This has happened hundreds and hundreds (maybe even many thousands) of times since this game began, which should be a huge clue to WC that they're doing it wrong.

 It should be obvious that simply having "Leave" or "Merge" as the available options is not good enough, because if it was good enough then this wouldn't be an ongoing problem for the game.

I really love this, especially the (by me) highlighted part. I get you who say it's not a bug and that you should know better, but is it really necessary for this game to be even more punishing to inexperienced players? Sure, most of us have so many hours few seem to remember how it was just starting out.

Having that said, whining about it being the devs fault is just as unnecessary. If you had just said "This happened, it's really not necessary for this to be an issue, would you mind considering fixing it so that this mistake doesn't have to happen", then I sure would agree! Because it really is a mistake that is avoidable in so many ways, from a warning text in the UI when there's only one player left (then you have a lot of space in the member list! ;) ) and a confirmation dialog making sure this is what the player wants to handling the case in some way (like giving all dinos and structures to the last player).

Not only would this help a lot of players, especially inexperienced ones that are in desperate need of being less punished, it would also help WC themselves as it would mean fewer support tickets... which in turn would benefit everybody else ever in need of filing a support ticket!

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On 6/3/2019 at 1:45 PM, Aikar said:

You 2 need to get over yourselves. Yes it is a bug. 

Any game developer with sanity would code it in a way that when the last person leaves a tribe, all remaining dinos go back to that last member as personal owner.

This is like common sense. Hence why so many people think it should be ok to leave.

Stop sucking up to the failures of the dev team. You aren't getting brownie points.

Yet another ID-10t error you seem to think developers need to save people from.  Feel free to start sending your paychecks their way to fund all this frivolous support you appear to be in favor of.

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7 hours ago, SaltyMonkey said:

Common sense should dictate that leaving a tribe means you leave everything behind, and merging means you bring everything with you. Not a particularly difficult concept to comprehend.

No, that's not "common sense", that's what feels intuitive to you and so you assume it should feel intuitive to every one. Again, that fact that this has happened bunches and bunches of times over the years should be a hint that not every person thinks alike.

A lot of other people believe that "common sense" should dictate that when you're the only person and you leave a tribe that everything in the tribe reverts to your personal ownership. There is no tribe anymore and therefore everything belongs to you personally (just like it did when you started the game and had not created a tribe yet).

Both interpretations are equally valid, which is why it's a bad idea to assume that one of them is "common sense" and the other is not.

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4 hours ago, Zahlea said:

Having that said, whining about it being the devs fault is just as unnecessary. If you had just said "This happened, it's really not necessary for this to be an issue, would you mind considering fixing it so that this mistake doesn't have to happen", then I sure would agree!

That's exactly what people have been saying for 4 years. At some point (like about 3 years ago) it stopped being a "would you mind considering fixing it" issue and became a "ignoring a bad design choice" issue. It could have been fixed years ago, preventing the constant stream of threads on this very topic.

Mind you, we're not exactly arguing, I see that we're agreeing on the essence of what should be done (and should have been done a long time ago) to improve this issue. I'm only addressing your description of calling it "whining about it being the devs fault". WildCard has a long history of focusing most of their energy on new content and not enough energy on quality of life improvements & fixes. That's certainly not the fault of any specific developer, or really the developers in general, those priorities are almost always decided at a higher, managerial level and WildCard has a company culture that puts very low priority on issues and problems that waste people's time unnecessarily.

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1 minute ago, SMP said:

What would be nice is if we had some sort of magical database of facts that we could access when we're preparing to try something we've never done before.  It would certainly make this game a lot easier.

Or like the thousands of hours of YouTube tutorials giving step by step instructions 

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I have been playing solo and have built up a large base with tons of stuff and dinos.  I have been playing pve xbox and have been very careful to not let anything important to me die.  I just lost an important(ish) dino while offline and had no clue how it died.  I went to check my tribe log and quickly realized I haven't even made a tribe and have no log was available.

So my question is.....

Is it too late to make one? Will I lose my stuff if I do?

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I did the same mistake in the beginning and literally lost everything by leaving my own tribe. I didn't know about the tribe ownership setting at all.

A suggestion would be to put the default setting when creating a new tribe to "personally owned, personally tamed" - it would save both support and the new players quite alot of tickets and headaches, while people who do know about the settings can simply change them immediatly after. 

 

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5 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

No, that's not "common sense", that's what feels intuitive to you and so you assume it should feel intuitive to every one. Again, that fact that this has happened bunches and bunches of times over the years should be a hint that not every person thinks alike.

A lot of other people believe that "common sense" should dictate that when you're the only person and you leave a tribe that everything in the tribe reverts to your personal ownership. There is no tribe anymore and therefore everything belongs to you personally (just like it did when you started the game and had not created a tribe yet).

Both interpretations are equally valid, which is why it's a bad idea to assume that one of them is "common sense" and the other is not.

No one with common sense would assume anything and take extra precautions when making such decisions.

Have you ever considered that some people just aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed? I stand firmly by my statement.

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14 hours ago, SMP said:

What would be nice is if we had some sort of magical database of facts that we could access when we're preparing to try something we've never done before.  It would certainly make this game a lot easier.

I realise you're trying to make a joke, but addressing what you said - if you have to look something up, it definitely doesn't fall under "intuitive".

9 hours ago, SaltyMonkey said:

No one with common sense would assume anything and take extra precautions when making such decisions.

 Have you ever considered that some people just aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed? I stand firmly by my statement.

Very true. The game company I work for then makes sure to be very clear so that the user's don't have to make mistakes that are easily prevented. Not doing so, while you can justify it however you want, is still bad design.

15 hours ago, Pipinghot said:

That's exactly what people have been saying for 4 years. At some point (like about 3 years ago) it stopped being a "would you mind considering fixing it" issue and became a "ignoring a bad design choice" issue. It could have been fixed years ago, preventing the constant stream of threads on this very topic.

 Mind you, we're not exactly arguing, I see that we're agreeing on the essence of what should be done (and should have been done a long time ago) to improve this issue. I'm only addressing your description of calling it "whining about it being the devs fault". WildCard has a long history of focusing most of their energy on new content and not enough energy on quality of life improvements & fixes. That's certainly not the fault of any specific developer, or really the developers in general, those priorities are almost always decided at a higher, managerial level and WildCard has a company culture that puts very low priority on issues and problems that waste people's time unnecessarily.

I might have worded it too harsh, my mistake! Quickly going through the thread, I can't see the things that made me feel like it was over-the-top whining and I probably mistook it for some of the indeed whiny posts I see here from time to time. In general, I don't have much patience with people being angry as all hell because the devs don't focus on their particular issue. I agree that it feels like their priorities are on new things, which the wrong priority as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't even mind them taking a year of no updates to completely rewrite large parts of their engine (like Starbound did), but I imagine a lot of players would take issue with that.

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17 hours ago, SaltyMonkey said:

I stand firmly by my statement.

Then you firmly refuse to understand that bad game mechanics should be fixed. Here's what I think is common sense, fix the bad game mechanic, now that's a solution.

When a person is the sole member of a tribe and they leave that tribe everything in that tribe should revert to their personal ownership automatically because of course that's how it should work. There's no good reason to strip away tribe possessions, that's a silly game mechanic that violates common sense and should never have worked that way to begin with. What's "common sense" is to fix a bad game mechanic that has been screwing players for 4 years.

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