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DauntedVenus

Separate PvE and PvP balances

Suggestion

There should be a way to separate the balances made to dinosaurs and game mechanics between PvE and PvP.

Multiple balances have made PvE nothing but hard. Managarmr being a recent example, in PvE they're useless now thanks to the many balances made to make PvP better.

Flier nerf was a huge change in PvE making fliers and transportation harder by forcing us to land since PvP was taking to the skies too often and the game tried to "ground" the fight

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1 hour ago, johnm81 said:

Are you suggesting that pvp balance should be neglected in favor of placing worker hours to enhance the pve of this game?

I mean... PvP is not exactly the be all end all of Ark. There are other games for that...

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Just now, johnm81 said:

 

It just dawned on me. How can we really divorce pvp balance and pve servers when there is a lot of pvp that happens on pve server with the tribe war system? Now that system is in place is there really such a thing as non-pvp servers? No. The only difference is consensual vs non-consensual pvp. But still PvP.

The tribe war system has been there for years. Cheesed for years. Most people never use it. Interesting premise though. Burns you up most people just don’t play PvP

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Just now, WitchesTwex said:

I think they have to look st the things that unbalance pvp. And if you ask me, and from what I've heard, the majority of it comes due to stacking bred dino stats, and mutations. I'd propose the 'fix' could simply be to disable all breeding on pvp servers completely. This should dramatically, and perhaps drastically, level the playing field.

Breeding is a fun part of the game, disabling it would tick a lot of people off. They could fix the mutation cap, so people can't just infinitely mutate their dinos and have 150 points in melee. Allowing smaller tribes to get their hands on these super bred dinos as well by means like an update to oviraptor egg stealing mechanics could even the playing field aswell

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9 minutes ago, Eoptap said:

Your wrong the mana is junk now pvp balance dose not apply to pve environment. Only the mentally challenged would think the balance is the same. The mana should not drop like a rock after less than 1 second. The stam drops to fast. Instead of a nerf they should have provided a pvp patch. Pve always gets ruined by pvp's misconception of balance. If you play pvp you should just move to pve if you can't handle the heat not screw over pve with your repeated childish wines for a nerf.

The mana is a post flyer nerf (removed speed leveling) creature.

 

This whole post is about separating PvE and PvP nerfs/balancing. Make them each robust independent game modes. 

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16 minutes ago, Aylana314159 said:

The mana is a post flyer nerf (removed speed leveling) creature.

 

This whole post is about separating PvE and PvP nerfs/balancing. Make them each robust independent game modes. 

Lol never mind me meds put me out of it a bit. Pvp and pve should have seperate patches. The mana is a good example of why they should be seperate. Pve should never be the same standard as pvp.

Edited by Eoptap
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3 minutes ago, Aylana314159 said:

The person you replied to was talking about the flyer nerf. You were talking about manas. Completely different things.

 

The flyer nerf increased the challenges of PvE making land dinos useful for transport and travel. Instead of get flyer = easy mode = win.

 

The mana nerf is a completely different topic. 

 

I don't think any major nerf should be enacted without settings (not requiring mods) to revert them. Also, PvE shouldn't be effected by PvP only nerfs. But this would mean creating one or more setting(s) to make PvP and PvE different.

Sorry yup allergy meds making me to out of it lol. 

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Guest BubbaCrawfish

See @Cedric The bare mention of it, and this is what gets spawned...

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1 hour ago, Aylana314159 said:

These would all be possible differences. PvE might have a more generous player weight setting.

 

As for tribe war, it would have to be based on the PvE mode. It wouldn't make sense for tribes at war to suddenly be under PvP settings like wild flyer carry. 

That is still a bit worrying with our brightest Managarmr example. 

Un-nerfed mana on PvE is all nice and good. The minute a tribe goes to war the managsrmr is God.

 

Edit: 

I think Managarmr should never existed as mythical creature. It’s like the black sheep. 

Edited by YourHearse

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2 hours ago, Brutal69 said:

Maybe getting a dev that actually plays PvP would be a great bloody start

Just saying 🤦‍♂️

It seems to me that by trying to balance the game, they just mess up both PvP and PvE.

 

Look at the moschops. Accidentally add riding ability. Everyone loved it. So they nerfed the moschops to uselessness and added riding permanently. 

 

They seem to think that nerfs and extreme nerfs at that are the proper want to balance the content.

 

Content need strengths and weaknesses. Every creature needs one or more nemesis (either other creature or weapon/ammo). No creature should be a Mary Sue.

This could add tons of content to the game. Think poison tipped bullets/ammo. New engrams for creature/type of poison. New ammo or even special guns.

Or even dino gear. Costume slot stuff. Like trike with metal encased horns. Or platform dinos with added armor.

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On 4/24/2019 at 5:45 PM, Lowly said:

You know what's hilarious is that pve players always blame PvP for the nerfs, I'd love to hear from PvP players what needs are the result of PvE players

To be fair (I am a PVP player) PVE Player dont demand much momst of the time
But where PVP players use Progress by Broken Dinos like the Managrmr PVE dont really lose anything (of course Breeding for the OP Mana when it will be nerfed at the end sucks)

Most upset I am about Wildcard to release something like this in the first place. Why not Introduce new Ideas/Dinos much to weak, buffing most of the time Is more accepted the nerving it... but thats the Devs PayToWin DLC content Idea.

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1 hour ago, Lowly said:

Still waiting to hear what Nerfs PVP has suffered because of PVE needing something

PvP can fly in caves, build in caves, pick up wild Dino's and destroy other peoples; spiked walls, taming pens, pillar spam, land ownership claims

What did PvP suffer because of something PvE did?

I Dont think PVP suffers really from a "PVE-patch" since PVE donst often demand stuff
but Mana was/still is so broken for PVP-players that it start to make the game unplayable

I dont hope that PVP or PVE player suffer from some patches and I dont think we should shout at each other for diffrent needs.
I am pretty sure WE (PVP AND PVE) together would find solutions wich woould be okey for both

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15 hours ago, Aylana314159 said:

Its not. The mana is just the newest example. The whole history of Ark is PvP nerf needed, PvE unfortunately gets affected.

Please Tell me more than just the Managarmr  Gacha and Velo (like the not finished Extinciton DLC pack
(Flyer nerv was allso in favior for PVE players since nobody uses ground Dinos befor anymore for travel and Transport)

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52 minutes ago, FriezaCy said:

100% agreed, in addition to the seperate nerfings And along the same lines, clipping should be different. Pve should be allowed to clip, at least more than we can now. What I mean by this is, in unoffical you can change the server settings to allow your buildings to clip into the terrain for a smoother build. Being able to incorporate mountainsides or use foundations the "flatten" a spot is probably the best thing about unofficial servers. I cant imagine a reason pve shouldn't be allowed to do this.

You saying official PvE servers should have the setting disable structure collision changed?

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On 5/11/2019 at 4:41 AM, GreenRoc said:

Before Flier Nerf:
Less than 5 minutes to fly from one base on my Unofficial to another base.

After Flier Nerf:
15+ minutes between bases, with one or two rest stops.

This was my unofficial, my rules, my server. And the flier nerf was unwanted, but was forced on us regardless of how much I verbally rejected it, or verbally requested configs to opt-out.

Flier nerf may never have happened to PvE if PvE and PvP were coded separately.

I see zero reasons why any tame needs any nerf on any PvE server.

Who cares if a tame dodo on PvE could 1-shot a wild giga... (just to show an example of an extreme). I cant imagine any downside or "unfair" advantage to this.

Nerfs are based on balancing the game.  Mana became too op and the fact that PVE players are complaining so much that they want them back is enough that you too also thought they were Op.  If they code the dinos differently for PVP verse PVE than that is doubling the work for when a dino getting updated and it doubles the chances for something to get coded incorrectly.   

 

Also without dino nerfs PVE would get destroyed by Ark Turkey Trials.  OG Wild Turkeys were no joke. 

Edited by Weberm35
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Spoiler

 

Can PVE please have our manas back, circa 2-3 nerfs? This range / md nerf is just awful and obnoxious.

 

Also, when I jump on on a mana now, it's super herky jerky. Is that just me or is anybody else also experience terrible graphical hitching on manas now? It's almost nauseating for me.

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I dont really think separation is needed really.  I think more BALANCED nerfs would make sense.  Im a pve and a solo guy.  I know a huge reason why flier nerf was implemented was because players on PVP were uping their argys speed to 300+% making them move faster then the auto turrets tracking mechanism.  Obviously something had to be done.  Their choice was to completely lock the stat, highly unbalanced nerf decision.  The intelligent choice would of been cap the speed at around 200%.  Fixes the auto turret issue as well as keep some speed for getting around keeping pve happy.  And lets be honest the majority of us still mostly use fliers despite the nerf.  Im still flying a bird 90% of the time.

As for mana nerf, yet again stupidity in the nerfs.  Yes it was stupid op, to op for pve even, but the nerfs went a bit to far.  Add a cooldown to freeze, yes because its the only rideable dino that can 'stun' anything.  Reduce range, sure but overall, not just the dmg.  Heck i here more ppl complain about the actual freeze, not the dmg...Reduce both to lightning wyvern lvl, u dont really need more, even on pve.  Reduce speed if its going to fast for turrets, otherwise leave it be.  Its the extinction dragon, end game, pay to have, actually requires u to achieve a specific lvl dragon(thats also part tek).  It should maybe b allowed to out do wyverns a lil since wyverns are midgame, free, and a lvl 1 that gets lucky could ride tame(highly unlikely and maybe to extreme on the lvl but you get the point).  Its breath should be strong enough to match a lightning wyverns breath(considering the duration of the attack) maybe slightly weaker to balance the freeze effect from your initial hit.  Thus lingering balance on stronger enemies u cant refreeze because of the cooldown.  Needed nerfed yes, but allow it to still b worth it as an endgame tame.  End as end of ark, tho it is the highest lvl to ride extinction added creature which technically still makes it the final tame.  Gigas are available on island, wyverns on scorched, extinction is after so anything it brings is technically more endgame.  The lore also backs this considering extinction is the end of the story, and the end stuff is supposed to be better.  You dont get the master sword midgame and upgrade to rusted sword at the end.

But 1 point im trying to point out is i dont think we need a separate layout for both, the devs just need to actually think before they nerf.  As i said above there could of been better nerfs or adjustments made that could of pleased everyone, except of course those few hardcore ppl lingering on the edges wanting permanent god mode or dark souls on expert.

Edited by Onimusha759

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To Ark Devs about Genesis....

A simple request:

 

As you go about creating the concepts behind the new tames and items, I implore you, please ask yourself a simple question. "How will this impact pvp balance?" Extinction is a huge example of what happens when you allow your inner nerd child run wild with concepts that are without a doubt cool. And believe they are cool concepts that utterly break, no, smashed pvp balance. And many in the pvp community would agree that we are still reeling from it.

So while you are neck deep in nerdgasm please take a sobering step back and ask yourself how will this impact pvp balance or how could this be abused in pvp (cough lava lizard cough).

 

Thank you.

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while i generally don't play pvp except in frequent wipe servers like arkocalypse because i just can't get invested in pvp, i would like them to get it right in the first place since i know they aren't going to seperate pve and pvp balance issues.  I personally do not want another managarmr incident where i got whiplash from all the changes in pve so that pvp players could cope with it.  It seems to me though that going forward they have been keeping that in mind so we'll see.

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9 hours ago, Aushegun said:

Stats seem to indicate that the majority of players are PvE .... so maybe they should focus on making sure the game favors those players instead. 😈

Are you suggesting that pvp balance should be neglected in favor of placing worker hours to enhance the pve of this game?

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