Mutation Stacking Questions

[DeHammer]

I'm in the process of breeding for mutations with a group of Rex's. I had a group of female Rexs, two clean and two hatched with what appears to be the same health points mutation, plus a clean male (1st gen breeder). The mutation presented itself on both female identically, with a health points gain, one point added to the maternal mutation counter, and a small purple spot on their back beside their spinal plates. One of those female then hatched a male that inherited the HP mutation. The male then replaced the previous male in the lineup so that mutation can then be passed on more consistently (2nd gen breeder). Presumably, if they (mutated pair) now hatch a new Rex, the mutation counter could read 1/1 since the HP mutation is coming from both father and mother, in the case of the mutated pairing. 

Question... can the exact same HP mutation stack again with itself? I realize the mutation counter passes on even when the mutations sometimes don't, but I'm asking about the health points benefit specifically. 

[DeHammer]

I'm going to answer my own question... running a quick test, and thinking about it a bit more, I realized it can't possibly stack with itself because of the way stats inheritance works. Mutations occur first, then stats are decided. Since both mother and dad have the same mutation boosted stat #, having the same mutation on both parents does guarantee the stats will pass on, but the baby will only get one or the other. So only a potential new HP mutation has a chance of boosting the HP further... and only if the stat of the parent causing the mutation is selected. 

If I were to swap out the two mutation females with clean female at this point, I'd pass along fewer mutation counter ticks, just one on dad's side as opposed to one on each side, but then I would not be guaranteed the mutation boosted stat. 

I think most people breeding would just let the mutated females continue in the breeding lineup until they get closer to their max mutation counters then replace them with clean female. Is that correct? 

[ArianaGaming]

13 minutes ago, DeHammer said:

I'm going to answer my own question... running a quick test, and thinking about it a bit more, I realized it can't possibly stack with itself because of the way stats inheritance works. Mutations occur first, then stats are decided. Since both mother and dad have the same mutation boosted stat #, having the same mutation on both parents does guarantee the stats will pass on, but the baby will only get one or the other. So only a potential new HP mutation has a chance of boosting the HP further... and only if the stat of the parent causing the mutation is selected. 

Hello,

I was just answering you when you gave yourself the answer. Lol.

Yes both sides add to give a new mutation number.

The stat is just a stat that need another mutation to get stacked to the previous HP mutation.

Save your 0/20 0/20 male as the mutation value soon grow outside the 20 mutations.

Example

23/20, 0/20 mated with 0/20, 0/20

Both are under 20 mutations on one so both give mutation.

Baby is (23+0)/20,  (0+0)/20

HP stat is taken from mother OR father.

/Ari

[DeHammer]

Thanks Ari. I'm sure I will have many more questions as I proceed. 

[ArianaGaming]

I am still breeding my Therizinosaurus, so keep asking.

[d1nk]

Do yourself a favour and keep the hp mut seperate, keep the all-stats 0/0 breeders seperate and cryo the mut hp stats. Keep breeding until you get a bunch more to add to.your line then work the muts in, you will save a bit of ballache

[ArianaGaming]

1 minute ago, d1nk said:

Do yourself a favour and keep the hp mut seperate, keep the all-stats 0/0 breeders seperate and cryo the mut hp stats. Keep breeding until you get a bunch more to add to.your line then work the muts in, you will save a bit of ballache

I used to do that as well. One health one melee one weight and so on, then mix them to get best stats. Then zeroing and a new start so to say. Now I just want the mutation number to up as fast as possible. I want to colour breed as soon as possible and that is not possible with the zeroing male.

[DeHammer]

2 hours ago, d1nk said:

Do yourself a favour and keep the hp mut seperate, keep the all-stats 0/0 breeders seperate and cryo the mut hp stats. Keep breeding until you get a bunch more to add to.your line then work the muts in, you will save a bit of ballache

I kind of went the opposite way. I don't have the Tek engrams yet so can't cryo, but I uploaded the original 0/0 breeding male and some of the original 0/0 females. A couple of other 0/0 females keep locked away separately. That way I could always go back to that stage if I wanted to, or breed more clean females from the original mating group. 

I may end up going that road eventually, but for now I'm going to play a little without burning any bridges, just so I can advance my learning of the process. 

But I'm going to do as you suggested with my Giga breeding line I think. Of the two, the Gigas are where I really want to do it right, and make a longer term investment. The Rex breeding line is really just to learn, and get our Rex's boosted up enough for the boss fights. 

[DeHammer]

Another question... if you get a mutation with a desired stat enhancement, but an absolutely hideous color mutation that you definitely do not want... is there an opportunity in the future to transfer the useful stat boost without having to take the color aspect of the mutation? Or are you better off trashing that mutated dino and just continue looking for the same stat enhancement in a mutation with a more appealing or less obvious color alteration? 

[GrumpyBear]

Colors are just another binary choice for each color zone like the stats are.  

[DeHammer]

5 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

Colors are just another binary choice for each color zone like the stats are.  

Yes, but I'm not referring to when a mutation first occurs, but rather when its passed along to a new dino. From what I've observed, the stat enhancement and the color remain the same when passed along; there's no new RNG selection for stat type or color & color region. 

[FS7575]

You can transfer the stat without the color.

[FS7575]

6 hours ago, ArianaGaming said:

Hello,

I was just answering you when you gave yourself the answer. Lol.

Yes both sides add to give a new mutation number.

The stat is just a stat that need another mutation to get stacked to the previous HP mutation.

Save your 0/20 0/20 male as the mutation value soon grow outside the 20 mutations.

Example

23/20, 0/20 mated with 0/20, 0/20

Both are under 20 mutations on one so both give mutation.

Baby is (23+0)/20,  (0+0)/20

HP stat is taken from mother OR father.

/Ari

You can not get mutations with a 0/20 dino. It needs to be 0/19 at most. It’s the total mutations on the dino, not per side.

[Luewen]

1 hour ago, FS7575 said:

You can not get mutations with a 0/20 dino. It needs to be 0/19 at most. It’s the total mutations on the dino, not per side.

Read the post carefully again.

0/20 can get mutations. As its zero mutations out of 20.

And he/she had both patri and matriarchals sides mentioned on post.

[GrumpyBear]

48 minutes ago, Luewen said:

Read the post carefully again.

0/20 can get mutations. As its zero mutations out of 20.

And he/she had both patri and matriarchals sides mentioned on post.

they were quoting from the wrong spot, someone said if they had one that was 23/20 0/20 that it could still mutate.  That was incorrect.  The total count of 20+ no matter what side the points are on, kills any chance of further mutation from that animal. 

Colors are not tied to stats or mutations.  THey are a binary choice just like the animal getting the hp from mom or dad. 

THe odds of moving the colors u want on an animal with lots of color zones is way difficult.  Especially when u are talking about getting 6 stats u determine as your best and then say on an anky that has 6 color zones you are trying to get it to chose 12 things that's 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x......(1/2)^12 .  THats the odds of getting what u want in one shot.  WIth time and patience, it can be done.

*odds aren’t exactly as I listed but it’s the essential idea.  You do have a slightly better chance to get the better stat when it’s choosing each stat.  But colors are 50/50 chance.

[Kodking194]

i musty warn you about something with stacking separate colour/stat mutations together from the mutated parents. for those of who know not every creature takes up all the colour regions like thylas they only have 3/6 of the co,our regions, as where from my knowledge argents have 5/6 colour regions, now if you did not know this every mutation comes with a stat and colour, the colour only appears depending on what region the colour landed on, so with a thyla if it landed on region 6 it would not appear on the thyla as it has no region 6. now to get to the point if you are going to breed where both parents have a different mutation, BTY i am going to use thylas as my example cause i have bred loads of time with them. say i breed one male containing a cyan back stripe and a health mutation with a female with a red main body with a melee mutation. i will be able to get both those mutations on the next generation,  now if i then breed the offspring with a thyla with a black belly and a weight mutation i will be able to also transfer that mutation to another generation. if i breed the thyla with those three mutations with a thyla that has a stamina mutation but no visible colour then the colour has landed on a nonexistent region on the thyla like region 6. i can keep stacking mutations until the game thinks that all colour regions are filled with a colour then the game will drastically reduce if not prevent the next baby from having another mutation from another parent. this can greatly slow down the mutation gathering process. a better way which i have learnt from the great you-tuber syntac is another more efficient way to stack mutations. first of all have two thylas (i am using thylas as example) with the stats you want. so i tamed two males one with great health the other with great melee. i also have 2 females, one with great weight and one with great stam, after breeding them to get all four stats stacked onto two thylas male and female most preferably twins so they are identical. HOT TIP: you should name them perfect thyla  or perfect argent or perfect Rex you get the idea. breed them together until you get a likable colour mutation which will be a cyan main body  and a health mutation for me. HOT TIP: you can use the off spring to increase your baby production increasing the likely hood of mutations, if you are going to do this then label them like this "perfect thyla F1 or perfect thyla M1, F1 and M1 stand for female 1 and male 1. so my cyan mutation thyla is a male so i am going to breed it with its mum, now it sounds weird but it works when i get to how you will stack the mutations. so the parents of the mutated thylas are 250 and the mutated baby is 252 then a baby with two mutations is going to be 254. so breed the two thylas until you get a 254 thyla with another mutation added to it that you like, for me it will be a red underbelly and another health mutation. keep in mind every mutation you get for a single stats is the same so for a thylas health off the top of my head i think it is 150 added to the health per mutation. just keep this method going till you cant get anymore mutations. if you end up with a female mutated thyla use the male perfect thyla. HOT TIP: if you get a baby with a cool colour mutation but a useless stat mutation likr food or oxygen just dispose of it because trust me you can get a better stat mutation with the colour or even a better colour. this method also allows you to bred for the specific colours you desire on your finale product like for me it is cyan and red that i breed for. also keep in mind speed mutations are useless, every mutation comes with a stats mutation that can land on any stat but if it lands on speed it is a wasted mutation as it does not increase the speed from my experience  so again dispose of it to get a better mutation.

hope this helps with your endeavors on breeding and if you would like breeding tutorials visit syntac's channel on YouTube as i love watching this guys for help when breeding.

PS: if breeding with egg animals collect a bunch of eggs and hatch bout 3 eggs at a time it really helps rather then hatching one egg every time it is laid.

please leave a like if this helped as i am thinking of making a forum with breeding tips and info for those who need it and the more likes i get then the more i will consider making the forum

[Kodking194]

one thing i myself have not figured out is what is the difference between maternal and paternal mutations, i theorize paternal mutations are mutations from parents as where maternal mutations are from the baby itself and no parents but it was born with that mutation. if i am right then i fell stupid for asking this question but it just keeps niggling me in the back of my head.

[GrumpyBear]

Mutation from dads bloodline , paternal.

mutations from mothers blooodline, maternal

[Kodking194]

and mutations from farther's bloodline are paternal 

[Onimusha759]

Never ever breed 2 mutated dinos together until your satisfied with their stats.  If you do you limit how many mutations you can get.  The best method to breed is get a bunch of clean, same lvl, same stat, females and 1 male, same lvl and stat to the ladies.  You will likely have to breed the best non mutated stats together 1st.  Then have the ladies surround the male, set em all to breed.  Hatch eggs.  Once you get a desired mutation check its gender, if its male swap it with the clean male, if its female mate it with the clean male til you get a boy with the stat, then proceed to put the boy with the stat in with the clean females.  Repeat this process until you get the stat where you want it.  Put the desired 1 aside and put the clean male back in and start the process over with another stat.  If you do not keep the bloodline stat pure, youll make this process MUCH harder.  To get the specific stat mutated on the correct parents stat is between a 1in 180 to 1 in 200 chance.  Once a parent has 20 mutations it can no longer give a new mutation making your odds of getting a mutation now 1 in 360 to 1 in 400 because only 1 parent can do it now.  If you breed 2 mutated parents together your baby will have all of their numbers on it, example you mate 2 dinos with the same stat and mutations, youll get a baby identical to its parents but with 2x the mutations being counted on it compared to its parents.  Thats shooting yourself in the foot.  Keep colors aside and breed them in after you got your stats where you want em.  Only once you got that 20 mutations in hp on 1 dino and 20 dmg on another should you breed the lines together because youll hit that 20 mutation cap faster if you dont thus making breeding 2x harder for you.  You can take this method and expand it with multiple groups of 1 male with multiple females to speed this process up

[Kodking194]

the proscess i typed above you is also great as well. i have gotten a bunch of fully mutated tames out of that process.

[RazerX]

I have so much to learn about breeding......

[Kodking194]

like my post above and if i get to ten likes i will post a forum on breeding for those who want it. the likes are to see who will use it i will not make it unless a few people will use it and read it.

[Kodking194]

nice thx i already have it typed out i just need ten likes for me to know to post it.

[RazerX]

Do you use "smartbreeder"?