Mutation Stacking Questions

[DeHammer]

4 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

Meaning, You get 3 separate mutated males.  Each only have the first mutation in one stat.  For the example, your male with 1 hp mutation, you mate w/ 100 females until you get a second hp mutation.  Now the count is 2 and you have 4 more points in HP over your original clean hp stat.  You then take the new male w/ 2 hp mutations and mate to 100 females, you toss everything that doesn't give you a 3rd hp mutation.  You do this all the way up to 20.  After you hit 20 , it won't matter anymore.  THat's when you would merge your 3 separate mutation lines together.  If your starting stats were 50 points in hp, 50 points in weight, 50 points in melee - all clean with 0 mutations.  You are ending w/ 90 points in hp, 90 points in weight, 90 points in melee.  That's when you can then make female copies of the final male in each category.  THen you mate back and forth until all 3 stats are now on one Male, and one female copy.  THen all your babies will have those stats guaranteed.  IF you want to mutate further, you just take that final male, and breed to your 300 clean females that are leftover.  You will keep mutating each stat, you will just have to cross breed your upgrades untill all your best 3 stats are combined.  Most likely you won't get lucky to have all 3 stats together already when they mutate further.

 

Breeding your final males to 300 females is bound to pop a few copies w/ all 3 stats combined.  Having a perfect female copy of the final male, might not really be necessary.

Excellent. Thanks for the in depth explanation. 

[DeHammer]

Thanks to everyone who contributed. 

[GrumpyBear]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:10 PM, Kodking194 said:

what is smartbreeder

smartbreeder is a program called Ark Smart Breeding.  It was made by a tester for Ark.  Some people don't like to use it because you have to tell your windows operating system to allow it to run since it's an unsecured application.  Some people don't have admin privileges on their machines and can't install it.  But, I use it.  I have had no problems with viruses with it.  I've had more problems with ASUS having their update software delivering viruses than I have with Ark Smart Breeding.

 

It's a tool that will allow you to track the stats, what parents will give you the best possible outcomes from mating, it tracks the colors of your animals.  You can easily export the data for the program straight from the game.  When you pull up the command wheel on an animal and you go into options, you see the option for Export Dino.  That creates a file in a folder that you can then point to w/ the program and it will let you import all the data with the click of a mouse.  No pencil or paper, no writing or typing, just click click click done. The program has a tab that will show you the best matings based on your weighting of what stats are most important and it will make suggestions and tell you the % chance of you getting the result u want.

 

ArianaGaming is right about not worrying about color scheme along the way.  The colors u want to keep will get washed out because you will have to make hard choices when you get the mutations you want, they usually don't come w/ the color u want.  It's better to mix the colors how u want separately, then merge onto your final product after you put your stats together.  That process is straight forward.  You work to get several females and one male of the color mix you want.  Then you work it separately, final male to color females, colored male to all your final females.  THen you just set a bar, you keep your first animal w/ 1 color and 1 stat, then you work to keep anything w/ that much or more put together, YOu will end up killing stuff you save right away when something better pops up after.  That's normal, set a standard, then meet it and then try and exceed it.  ANimals w/ 6 colors will take more than double the time to get it done than say a 4 color animal.   That's when you luck out w/ the law of numbers.  THe more females you can throw at the full color male, the more chances you get of getting the most stats w/ the most colors. 

* this process is really messy and you can end up w/ a ton of animals you will not use simply to move the stats and colors and you will be making weird decisions on what to keep. 3 out of 4 colors here and only 2 stats, but 3 stats here and 3 of 4 colors but missing a different color... so on...it's really messy.

[gimmeaname]

I appreciate all this info however I'm still confused here.  I need it dumbed down a bit without all the math and numbers.

Lets say I have a bunch of argys. One male and four females for example.  I want to mutate the weight stat.  All my argys are the same level.  All have 0/20.  All have similar weight stat.  

I breed a bunch, pop a few hundred eggs.  BOOM! I get 1/20 on a male baby that has slightly higher weight than the babies with 0/20.  So it now shows 1/20 on paternal side, meaning it was  the fathers mutation.  

Baby grows up.  Baby is now ready to pass the stat on for more muts.  How do I do that?  Do I breed the 1/20 paternal male with 0/20 paternal females or do I need 1/20, weight stat, paternal females?

[ArianaGaming]

On 4/24/2019 at 8:40 AM, DeHammer said:

@Onimusha759@d1nkI think I have an understanding of the basic principles at this point, but how to define a more precise path forward when it comes to mutation stacking still eludes me. I'm thinking of going back to my original unmutated breeding group and starting the mutation stage fresh again. This time, breeding identical stat'd Rex's looking for mutations that I will simply leave on a single mutated dino for time being, holding off on introducing any of those mutations to the breeding line right away, as some have suggested.

Example: I get a health points mutation on a new dino and store it away for use later.  

However, planning ahead to the point where I would want to work those mutations into the breeding line, is it more ideal to have those individual mutation dinos be female or male? 

 

Also, had some success with my Giga line tonight. Yesterday I hatched a 'clone' of the female to expand the breeding line #s. Tonight I hatched a male with all the best stats available for Health Points, Stamina, and Melee Damage. So he can now replace 'dad' in the breeding lineup and increase the chances of creating an ideal breeding mate for himself. 

Hello,

So you think right and do correct but for what reason do you need to start over?

Starting again from zero mutations is not a good thing (rejected progress). But if you do, take the opportunity and write down the points (dododex stat calculator), this point system give you clear understanding where the mutation(s) went.

Congratulations to a double mutation  (increase four levels)! If you like I can give you explanation.

So you removed a stamina mutation? Stamina can be good. I like that stat as much as weight.

So from what I can tell you need to set priority to your breeding stats.

Melee and health looks to be priorities so what I do is to save stamina and weight mutations (put aside) when a health or melee arrives I get that stat and the other mutations into both female and male so that next mutation 100% can stack.

After that I check if mother and father can get new mutation by looking at one side in the Ancestry tree. If random mutation is less than 20 you are good to go. Even if one mutation roll is overlooked,  one side is enough. In teori you can get one mutation roll for each side that is below 20 random mutations for both morher and father. You always tradeoff here.

With all information you got I understand your doubts.

I guess the only way is to break the 20 mutations barrier and see if you can get new mutations after that. You only need to mate what ever baby you get with parent of the opposite gender so that the mutations add and go past 20 mutations.

/Ariana

[DeHammer]

28 minutes ago, ArianaGaming said:

Hello,

So you think right and do correct but for what reason do you need to start over?

Starting again from zero mutations is not a good thing (rejected progress). But if you do, take the opportunity and write down the points (dododex stat calculator), this point system give you clear understanding where the mutation(s) went.

Congratulations to a double mutation  (increase four levels)! If you like I can give you explanation.

So you removed a stamina mutation? Stamina can be good. I like that stat as much as weight.

I'm not throwing any progress away as I still have the mutated Rex's, but I'm going to try setting up two clean breeding groups for each of the two main stats I'm pursuing, HP & Melee Damage and try things the other way. If I get some stamina mutations, I'll keep them as well.

That particular stamina mutation was on a double mutation, which only had one stat passed on. The other mutation stat wasn't inherited, making it a double mutation with only one stat boost. The benefit was so small that it wasn't worth the two ticks upward on the mutation counter. When I examined the double mutation it appeared there was a mutation on each side (paternal/maternal). It could be that both mutations boosted stamina, one on dad's stat, and one on mom's stat. Which means you could only inherit one benefit or the other. Or the non-appearing boost could have been on any other stat that simply wasn't inherited. 

 

[DeHammer]

1 hour ago, gimmeaname said:

Baby grows up.  Baby is now ready to pass the stat on for more muts.  How do I do that?  Do I breed the 1/20 paternal male with 0/20 paternal females or do I need 1/20, weight stat, paternal females?

Coming from someone just beginning to get my head around it...

This was exactly my situation and my question. If you were to use 1/20 mutated females you get the assurance of babies always having the same higher stat level. But the down side is that you also pass along more mutation counter ticks. If you use 0/20 clean females, then babies will sometimes inherit the males mutated stat, and sometimes the mothers less stat - meaning you have to maybe do more breeding, and be more selective about which babies you keep, but fewer counter ticks involved. 

[gimmeaname]

14 minutes ago, DeHammer said:

Coming from someone just beginning to get my head around it...

This was exactly my situation and my question. If you were to use 1/20 mutated females you get the assurance of babies always having the same higher stat level. But the down side is that you also pass along more mutation counter ticks. If you use 0/20 clean females, then babies will sometimes inherit the males mutated stat, and sometimes the mothers less stat - meaning you have to maybe do more breeding, and be more selective about which babies you keep, but fewer counter ticks involved. 

Thank you for the easy explanation.  I'm sure mutations are a lot easier to understand once you do it a few times.  It's like one of those things that seems difficult to understand at first, when you don't know anything about it.  But once you learn how it works it's probably so simple you kick yourself in the butt for not being able to figure it out on your own.  I used to breed a lot in pokemon.  Was all about IVs in pokemon and finding the right ones to breed with and blah blah blah.  I thought I'd be able to grasp how the muts work in Ark, seems like a similar concept.  The biggest thing that threw me off and confused me is how the mutation counter explodes and sometimes I see like 1932847573/20 and I'm like "what the ****?".  I once thought that the higher that number gets the stronger the dino so I went into sp once and tested it with theris.  I saw that each time I'd inbreed a new generation of theris that mutation number would multiply by 2 each time but the stats were staying the same.  Sometimes I'd see a different color here and there but the stats were barely changing.  Since then I quit messing around with breeding until I learned more and then this thread happened and now I think it's time for more testing.  Thank you

[GrumpyBear]

sorry, accidentally double posted.

[GrumpyBear]

1 hour ago, DeHammer said:

I'm not throwing any progress away as I still have the mutated Rex's, but I'm going to try setting up two clean breeding groups for each of the two main stats I'm pursuing, HP & Melee Damage and try things the other way. If I get some stamina mutations, I'll keep them as well.

That particular stamina mutation was on a double mutation, which only had one stat passed on. The other mutation stat wasn't inherited, making it a double mutation with only one stat boost. The benefit was so small that it wasn't worth the two ticks upward on the mutation counter. When I examined the double mutation it appeared there was a mutation on each side (paternal/maternal). It could be that both mutations boosted stamina, one on dad's stat, and one on mom's stat. Which means you could only inherit one benefit or the other. Or the non-appearing boost could have been on any other stat that simply wasn't inherited. 

 

* if you get a double mutation to a stat, you will see an increase of 4 points to that stat.

I dont' think you can get 2 mutations on a "category" from both parents,  I'm pretty sure it picks a stat from the parents first, then applies the mutation rolls after a stat is chosen, if u succeeded on 2 rolls - it would modifity only 1 stat 2x.  If you see a double mut, most likely 2 different stats were changed.  Its possible to not be able to tell which stat got it if the parents stats don't match exactly, you could mutate a lesser stat in a category that mutated up to the same level as the higher stat parents.  You would see the higher stat expected from the one parent, but in reality it was the lower stat parent that had it's stat upgraded to match the better stat of the other parent.

 

This is where ark smart breeding can come in handy.  You can see exactly how many points difference u have in your breeding stock.  You would be able to spot when it's just a mutation on run speed more easily.  If parent A has 25 points in run speed and parent B has 27.  Then you had a baby where it got a mutation count of 1 , but 27 run-speed.  If all other stats were matching, you would be able to say that u actually mutated the 25 point stat to 27 points.  Otherwise, if you go through each stat each parent supplies, say 43 point in hp other supplies 41.  Again, this could lead to you getting the 41, mutating it and getting 43, u end up w/ a mutation count of 1 added, but u see no visible benefit.  It's hard to tell what happens when you aren't using ASB.  For example, you tame an ankylosaurus.   It has 359md damage.  You mate it to another anky and you end up w/ 367md.  You check your mutation counters and you just see 0/20  0/20.    This isn't' a mutation, this is from the fact that no wild tame gets it's full value to the points in a melee stat.  When you breed and imprint onto the animal, that tame efficiency is now 100%, so you are actually seeing the full value of the md you caught.  People who don't use ASB usually miss out on this fact and have no idea what's going on.  I've had to explain this alot to people on the servers I play on.  Also you can't use dododex to figure out your stats after taming and on breeding.  The dododex doesn't calculate the melee properly after tame, it's only set to calculate wild animal stats.  That's why people who dont use ASB really have no idea how many points they have on melee.  They are then further confused by the new higher melee on the babies that come from the pairing.

For the most part it isnt' an issue of not knowing the real values meanings, unless you are trading with others.   But I can say 100% without a doubt, my results got better and my combining of stats and mutating of stats became more efficient and took less time to get done after I started using ASB.

 

I go and name my animals w/ revision #s when I start getting them to the point where i have most the stats together that i want.  I then update my revision #s on succeeding generations that add more stats to the mix.  ie - added best melee to the mix, revision goes from 1.1 to 1.2, arbitrary #'s , doesn't matter the revision #s just that u start to remember what that means.  Then you can get a new 1.4 male and mate w/ all your older generations and work for copies of your 1.4 male.  I do that until i'm ready to move in mutations, then I jump to 2.0.  THere's more ways I add details to my animal names to keep track of their stats, but the revision #s let me stop thinking about what stats they ahve and I can just remember what stat they don't have at that point in my process.  WHen I start moving mutations together , I get fancier, and then say I merge a 3mut count and 6 additional points into hp while I add a 7mutation count and 14 more points into melee, my new animal would be like 1.5.3a7f   .  The a tells me it's 3 mutations on the first stat, hp.  The 7 tells me its 7 mutations added in for melee.  If say the mutation count goes over 20, then i'd say 1.5.3a7fZ.  That Z tells me it's not good breeding stock for mutations, but for use to ride or in final combining of stats and and colors.  If i say combined those stats and the counter was actually only 12, I'd say 1.5.3a7f2z .  That lower case z tells me it's got wasted points but it's for sure not over 20 and so i put the actual # i know is wasted in the count, which was 2.  In this instance , if it's 10 wasted or  1million wasted  - the count would be 20 or over,  so i just put an uppercase Z.

 

That's how I get away from using ASB after awhile.  BUt it helps to use it to get started, by the end of your project you won't have to reference your ASB anymore since the revision #s pretty much explain it.

[DeHammer]

Thanks @GrumpyBear. I have the Smart Breeder app installed but it requires some special configuration in our case as we're running with the Classic Flyers mod, and some other modifiers. I just need to sit down and do the configuration one day, once I find out from our server admin which modifiers were using. 

As for the double mutation, it added one tick to each side, paternal & maternal. So it looked like two separate mutations, one on each side. 

[DeHammer]

1 hour ago, gimmeaname said:

Thank you for the easy explanation.  I'm sure mutations are a lot easier to understand once you do it a few times.  It's like one of those things that seems difficult to understand at first, when you don't know anything about it.  But once you learn how it works it's probably so simple you kick yourself in the butt for not being able to figure it out on your own.  

You're welcome, though the real thanks go to the other folks here helping me to get my head around it as well. I know exactly how you feel... going through that myself with this mutation stacking thing. 

[ArianaGaming]

2 hours ago, DeHammer said:

I'm going to try setting up two clean breeding groups for each of the two main stats I'm pursuing, HP & Melee Damage and try things the other way.

Hello again,

I understand, well it is the promoted breeding method by the community leaders so I can't blame you for not choosing my suggested method sometimes referenced to as dirty and viewed borh as a glitch method and a troll method.

Good luck

Ariana

 

[Kodking194]

if you have more than one creature like the argents compare all their stats against each other after being tamed without any levels pumped, choose the argent/s with theese highest stats: health, melee, stam, weight and if you want to be very speecific food and oxygen butthis can result in a higher level and like mentioned with servers with levle caps it id best they are kept as lower level as possible still with the best stats. still i compared all my thylas that i tamed sorted out the ones with the best of all thee stats and bred them all until i got two of the creatures with the stats from specified creatures. i would name them something like health and stam and melee to marker which creature has what, once i have the two creatures i name them perfect breeder M or perfect breeder F, this indictes their gender which you will want to have a male and female, since they have identical stats even thought they are not twins they will be the same level. breed them together and you will realise a mutation when a baby with a level 2 lvls higher than the parents.

[GrumpyBear]

1 hour ago, DeHammer said:

 

As for the double mutation, it added one tick to each side, paternal & maternal. So it looked like two separate mutations, one on each side. 

If both parents have no mutations but the baby shows one from each then yes,  that’s a double mutation.  Up to 3 is possible.  If all the stats you can account for come from one of the two parents and you know for sure the stam went up but all the other stats are accounted for,  then it’s one of the two situations I posted earlier,  either a lower stat was mutated to look like one of the stats the other parent has or it mutated the run speed stat.  

 

Mutations chances roll 3x,  if I remember correctly ,  the system rolls through this check for each stat.  Once a mutation sticks the system would continue using the two remaining chances until it’s gone through every stat or the other rolls succeed.  Which ever comes first.   

 

kodking said it well.  Make your clean breeding sets all identical ,  then you just have to look for a level that stands out 2-6 levels above .  Then You know ? you have mutations before you even whip out your sword to cull the trash.

[Kodking194]

when i get my first liekable mutation i breed it with my parent so if i had the non mut parents as 250 then the mut kid would be 252. i breed the offspring with the parents as it makes it an easyier way to stack mutations, if the kid was 252 then iknow a baby with 2 mut will be 254 and so on, just breed the new baby with an extra mutation from the last with what ever non mutated original parent is the other gender. i learnt this way off of syntac, a great youtube who has helped me with so many things by watching his videos i am the ark player i am today. he does building, taming, breeding, boss fights, OSD, element veins, titan taming/killing, caving and much more through out his ark series. he is a great source for breeding.

[DeHammer]

So last night I rolled out my new Rex mutation breeding lines. Two groups - 1 male and 4 clean females, each - one group for HP mutations development and one group for Melee Damage mutations. The HP mutation group already has a mutated male as stud. 

My very first egg hatched from the new 'clean' female breeders was another female HP mutation, with a cool powder blue belly. Not a bad start.

This is why I'm thinking that females are the best to get mutations on... now I can breed the new HP mutation to my male HP mutant and stack both mutations to a new male breeder. If the new HP mutation had arrived on a male... then what? You can't stack two mutated males and you can't just replace one with the other. 

[DeHammer]

After trying out the breeding with the new line I'm still stumped by something. I've been told that once you have some mutations in the stats you're trying to build up, you can 'work them into' the line and build up a certain stat with multiple mutations 'stacked'. But I'm still puzzled over this... how exactly does 'mutation stacking' work when new babies will only take one parent's stat?  

For instance... I have two different HP mutations, one on a male Rex and one on a female Rex. They are different mutations that came about at different times, and with different color mutation aspects.Both Rex's have identical stats, as per the attached image, including their mutated HP. So I'd like to stack the mutation from the female onto the male. However, whenever they hatch a new Rex, the baby Rex only ever has Dad's HP or Mom's HP. The babies obviously get 1/20 on both sides, but HP remains the same constantly. Is it just bad RNG? Should I see a jump in HP at some point?

@d1nk @Onimusha759 @GrumpyBear

 

[d1nk]

7 minutes ago, DeHammer said:

After trying out the breeding with the new line I'm still stumped by something. I've been told that once you have some mutations in the stats you're trying to build up, you can 'work them into' the line and build up a certain stat with multiple mutations 'stacked'. But I'm still puzzled over this... how exactly does 'mutation stacking' work when new babies will only take one parent's stat?  

For instance... I have two different HP mutations, one on a male Rex and one on a female Rex. They are different mutations that came about at different times, and with different color mutation aspects.Both Rex's have identical stats, as per the attached image, including their mutated HP. So I'd like to stack the mutation from the female onto the male. However, whenever they hatch a new Rex, the baby Rex only ever has Dad's HP or Mom's HP. The babies obviously get 1/20 on both sides, but HP remains the same constantly. 

@d1nk @Onimusha759 @GrumpyBear

 

Breed 1 m rex with a clean fem, get mut passed into a male. Breed new male with old female, should stack.

Had a few beers sorry for crap explanation

[GrumpyBear]

When u have only one parent with the stat,  you could fail over and over again,  that’s why we use lots of females.    If you have a stat and you want to make a guaranteed baby with it,  I mate to parents that both have that stat,  your mutation counter should double since mom and dad have the same mutated stat and in order to make sure the baby gets it you had to double the mutation count in the process.    When I say stacking I mean,  I got a bloodline with 5 mutations in hp over my clean hp stat and then I have a melee mutation bloodline that’s 5 mutations over my base clean stat.  I then take females with those  stats and mate to a male of the other stat.  Do that until I get a m/f pair with both stats.  Then the stats are together and the m/f mutation counts would be 10.   I could then mate those two and have guaranteed babies with the stats I want but the new babies mutation counts would now be 20.  

[DeHammer]

47 minutes ago, GrumpyBear said:

I got a bloodline with 5 mutations in hp over my clean hp stat  

This where I'm hung up. I had a clean male & female of equal stats. They had a male baby with HP mutation and all the right stats - though boosted HP (because mom and dad both had the best stats). So now I have my mutated male Rex with 9400 HP instead of mom and dad's 9000 HP. First HP mutation of the line. 

Meanwhile in my other breeding line (going to be for Melee Damage when I finally get a MD mutation) I have all clean females and clean male, all of equal stats. They also get a baby with an HP mutation, a female with 9400 HP (instead of mom and dads 9000 HP).

So now I have two Rex's, one male & one female, both with an HP mutation. What's next to get those two mutations stacked? How precisely did you get 5 HP mutations stacked over the clean HP stat?

[Onimusha759]

2 hours ago, DeHammer said:

This where I'm hung up. I had a clean male & female of equal stats. They had a male baby with HP mutation and all the right stats - though boosted HP (because mom and dad both had the best stats). So now I have my mutated male Rex with 9400 HP instead of mom and dad's 9000 HP. First HP mutation of the line. 

Meanwhile in my other breeding line (going to be for Melee Damage when I finally get a MD mutation) I have all clean females and clean male, all of equal stats. They also get a baby with an HP mutation, a female with 9400 HP (instead of mom and dads 9000 HP).

So now I have two Rex's, one male & one female, both with an HP mutation. What's next to get those two mutations stacked? How precisely did you get 5 HP mutations stacked over the clean HP stat?

They dont stack like that, stack is probably the wrong word, chain is better.  As i said before the mutation isnt connected to the stat, they are separate "stats".  You try to get a mutation on the better parent's stat, thus chaining.  Say dad has 52 dmg points and mom has 50, dad has 52 from a mutation because mutations always give 2 points.  When you breed you want the new baby to get the dads stat PLUS a new dmg mutation on top of it.  Thus chaining, not stacking.  If you breed 2 parents with the exact mutations and stats, all you achieve is running up the mutation counter to 20 faster which would then slow your progress afterwards, but you do guarantee a progress ONCE a new dmg mutation would occur since either stat it would choose is the good mutated stat.  Remember once the mutation occurs the stat and mutation are completely separate from each other.  Think of a mutated stack like a clean stat.  Its exactly the same in how it breeds to the baby(it picks either parents stat, just like normal), your just trying to get the better stat like when you were trying to make your cleans, but your also trying to remutate the mutated stat(the higher stat)

[DeHammer]

15 minutes ago, Onimusha759 said:

They dont stack like that, stack is probably the wrong word, chain is better.  As i said before the mutation isnt connected to the stat, they are separate "stats".  You try to get a mutation on the better parent's stat, thus chaining.  Say dad has 52 dmg points and mom has 50, dad has 52 from a mutation because mutations always give 2 points.  When you breed you want the new baby to get the dads stat PLUS a new dmg mutation on top of it.  Thus chaining, not stacking.  If you breed 2 parents with the exact mutations and stats, all you achieve is running up the mutation counter to 20 faster which would then slow your progress afterwards, but you do guarantee a progress ONCE a new dmg mutation would occur since either stat it would choose is the good mutated stat.  Remember once the mutation occurs the stat and mutation are completely separate from each other.  Think of a mutated stack like a clean stat.  Its exactly the same in how it breeds to the baby(it picks either parents stat, just like normal), your just trying to get the better stat like when you were trying to make your cleans, but your also trying to remutate the mutated stat(the higher stat)

Thanks Onimusha.

After thinking it over a bit I realized a simple fact... two existing mutations must not be able to 'stack'. In other words... you need a brand new mutation to modify an already mutated stat, and that's the only way you can 'stack' (or as you said 'chain') mutations together. You're right that the word 'stack' is a bit deceiving. I would bet that misconception is one of the biggest stumbling points for most people trying to understand the process.

So if I have two breeding pools, one to advance the dino's HP stat through mutation, and another breeding pool to advance the Melee Damage stat, and I get a useful mutation, but in the wrong pool, then its really not much good to me. 

[Rogero]

On 4/16/2019 at 1:00 PM, Udju said:

Thats why I wonder if its effective in the end to have separate chains...

 

[Onimusha759]

On 4/27/2019 at 4:27 AM, DeHammer said:

Thanks Onimusha.

After thinking it over a bit I realized a simple fact... two existing mutations must not be able to 'stack'. In other words... you need a brand new mutation to modify an already mutated stat, and that's the only way you can 'stack' (or as you said 'chain') mutations together. You're right that the word 'stack' is a bit deceiving. I would bet that misconception is one of the biggest stumbling points for most people trying to understand the process.

So if I have two breeding pools, one to advance the dino's HP stat through mutation, and another breeding pool to advance the Melee Damage stat, and I get a useful mutation, but in the wrong pool, then its really not much good to me. 

Thats what i initially thought as well.  After i redid the math thanks to ariana, i found i can reduce the number of eggs I need by 25% if i didnt keep 2 separate pools for hp and dmg.  Ill do the math 1 more time for you.  Each egg has a 7% chance to have a mutation.  It picks between 7 stats(6 for fliers), so 7/7=1%.  Then the stat mutated picks between 2 parents, so 1/2=.5%.  .5x200(eggs)=100% of getting the right stat mutation on the right parents stat, give or take because rng is a ho lol.  Now if your just going for 20 mutations in both hp and dmg then your looking for 40 mutations in total.  40x200 eggs=8000 eggs.  Now say you dont keep 2 separate lines, because your doubling the amount of keepable mutation types(both dmg and hp) you halve the amount of likely needed eggs to 100 per keepable mutation.  20(Mutations to limit to create new 1s)x100 eggs=2000 eggs.  Then the last 20 you need for your total of 40 mutations youd halve your chance again because your mutated parent is unable to give new mutations, so it goes back to 1/200.  20(the remaining mutations needed)x200 eggs=4000 eggs.  4000+2000=6000.  Separate lines is 8000, together is 6000.  Really its 7900 and 5850 because the 1st mutation is twice as easy then the next 19 because both parents have the same stat.  You could go further then that though but before you would plan on that it would be best to purify your beginning stats before you do any mutations by mating a lvl 5 with 0 oxygen and movement speed points.  The reason for this is the lvl cap is 3x the highest lvl tameable wild, normally 150 so 150x3=450.  So get ride of the worthless lvls to allow you to go as far as possible.  If your tame hits 450 itll get nerfed or deleted(i forget which) and remember you can lvl up a creature 73 times, so 449-73=376.  Dont mutate past lvl 376.

WARNING:  I forgot an important part of the calculation.  I forgot that youd be dealing with the rng for passing along 2 stats.  This halves your probability for dirty multi state maturation bloodlines, essentially doubling the number of eggs needed.  So i recall my previous statement from months ago and change my stance to keep pure lines, its mathematically better.