Mana Nerfs - How much is too much?

[d1nk]

On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 11:37 AM, Cedric said:

Just wanted to drop in and say we're still looking at balance for Managarmr.  These changes have been a response to the community outcry about Mana being OP and damage analytics that suggests the same thing.  We're still listening and tweaking!  In regards to specific changes for PvE and PvP, it's been discussed.  It would require significant code changes to make it happen.  Not saying it's not possible or won't happen, but it's been (and being) discussed.

Thank you for an actual dev reply! This is much needed on these forums. These are the official moderated forums after all! Keep it up!

[johnm81]

nope.

[johnm81]

On 4/17/2019 at 12:34 PM, Rancor said:

I really don't understand why the range from the freeze and damage are now separate. Cutting down the range to max turret ranges doesn't seem to bad to prevent tame sniping in bases... but why HALF distance for actual damage?  

prolly the new vision for them is fast travel mounts with high range freeze to help them escape vs what they were.... best in all category OP mounts.

[RoyHess666]

The range is ridiculous now, Studio Bugcard should separate PvP from PvE and add switches that allow classic Managarmr behavior on custom servers and SinglePlayer. That would require rewrite of code? Then lets go! You're devs.

Besides, now I can't even properly dash forward with the Managarmr anymore.
Tested on modded server, tested on Default Single Player no MODs.
Managarmr just dashes forward like a very little bit and then just falls to ground.
No obstables in the way.
Also no mention of the Managarmr Dash in the change log, makes me assume Studio Bugcard broke the game - once again.
It still works randomly, but absolutely not reliable at all.

The same worked perfectly fine before the update.

Why do the devs break stuff with every update?

[covenantgrunt]

11 hours ago, hud said:

From start it was a bit crazy on extinction. People kitted gigas or wyverns from osd to base, no one had imprinted gigas to defend. Mana was only choice.  Cheapest way to kill desert titan, or every other titan on ext.  

So you want a dino that tames that tames in 30 mins being able to kill poop that previously required a tamed giga ? You can't have a dino be both super cheap and godly powerful. If Manas were appropriately difficult tames like gigas, tusos or reapers it would not be as upsetting to game balance.

[ForzaProiettile]

PVE Player Logic: There shouldn't be any balance in the game, leave that nonsense for PVP 

[Kodking194]

Actually manas can be used to troll on pve. I was taming a max level giga on a server over at my friend's place. It took us hours cause A***holes kept manaring the giga damaging it. Them when finally out a D***weed decided I will go and screw over this tame. I was back getting kibble when my friend is screaming in the room across from me swearing his a** off cause this troll was sitting there sniping our giga while it was sleeping. So yes manas have been used to troll in pve. But U know what I mand up and grew a pair of balls. There are so many Things I hate bit in stead of Sooking and whining I man up and play the game with a pair of balls

 

 

[TripleBox]

1 hour ago, Kodking194 said:

Actually manas can be used to troll on pve. I was taming a max level giga on a server over at my friend's place. It took us hours cause A***holes kept manaring the giga damaging it. Them when finally out a D***weed decided I will go and screw over this tame. I was back getting kibble when my friend is screaming in the room across from me swearing his a** off cause this troll was sitting there sniping our giga while it was sleeping. So yes manas have been used to troll in pve. But U know what I mand up and grew a pair of balls. There are so many Things I hate bit in stead of Sooking and whining I man up and play the game with a pair of balls

 

 

You play PVE so you sit down to piss hero.

[Kodking194]

Yeah I play PvP cause of you people whining and sooking and crying going g waahhh my sino died cause I went waddling out of my base unready and got manad. I left PvP to play pvevp and yes that is a real thing. Has less rolling g and toxic gameplay. Once you dumba**** have learnt to man up and grow a pair of balls that is when I will come back to actual PvP. So yeah i may sit around pissin while playing PvP but at least I have a reason am I dont whine about the game and it's content. 

GROW A PAIR OF BALLS AN MAN IP A D STOP FRIGGIN WHINNIN OR I WILL FREAKIN MANA YOU MY SELF. 

[hud]

11 hours ago, covenantgrunt said:

So you want a dino that tames that tames in 30 mins being able to kill poop that previously required a tamed giga ? You can't have a dino be both super cheap and godly powerful. If Manas were appropriately difficult tames like gigas, tusos or reapers it would not be as upsetting to game balance.

They schould just kill breeding on them, or make them nest dinos on extinction, i agreed on that. 

[Kodking194]

No cause I hey are going g to need them to a point Where they are crap then keep breeding so we can at least make them better for those of us how dont cry like a sook

[Prat]

On 4/19/2019 at 9:03 AM, Lycan187u said:

Try killing the desert  titan...or a giga that may have spawned near ur base 

Oh no! You mean you can't solo something that literally nothing else in the game can, but this previously could because of how ridiculously broken it was? Cry me a damn river, kid. This nerf MAY have went SLIGHTLY too far, but it was long overdue. For the life of me, I can't figure out how these damned things made it into the game in the state they did to begin with. They're single handedly the most broken thing that's ever been in Ark.

WC: "Let's nerf fliers because the speed thing is totally out of hand and fliers are the only meta." (Note that any video of large scale pvp pre-flier nerf suggested that idea was 100% wrong anyway)

Also WC: "Let's make a flying squirrel thing that technically doesn't fly, have a bugged stam regen, freezes stuff outside of turret range, can deal MASSIVE damage with said freeze, and that actually does fly with teleporting."

What?

[Lycan187u]

15 hours ago, Prat said:

Oh no! You mean you can't solo something that literally nothing else in the game can, but this previously could because of how ridiculously broken it was? Cry me a damn river, kid. This nerf MAY have went SLIGHTLY too far, but it was long overdue. For the life of me, I can't figure out how these damned things made it into the game in the state they did to begin with. They're single handedly the most broken thing that's ever been in Ark.

WC: "Let's nerf fliers because the speed thing is totally out of hand and fliers are the only meta." (Note that any video of large scale pvp pre-flier nerf suggested that idea was 100% wrong anyway)

Also WC: "Let's make a flying squirrel thing that technically doesn't fly, have a bugged stam regen, freezes stuff outside of turret range, can deal MASSIVE damage with said freeze, and that actually does fly with teleporting."

What?

No salt bro haha I'm just stating  the facts it's a poop mount pve players don't care for your tears bro simple thing the code between pvp\pve should have been separate ... but now pve players must deal with pvp nerfs which is poop I play pvp I understand  how op the mana was but I also see how squishy it was aswell easily dealt with in fact  can kill rider\mana in minutes even befor the nerfs..

[Guest BubbaCrawfish]

On 4/19/2019 at 6:37 AM, Cedric said:

In regards to specific changes for PvE and PvP, it's been discussed.

This shouldn't even be entertained... There's already enough hate on PvE players, and dismissing of their participation on this forum that this sort of thing will only fuel it...

 

I personally cannot see why people are allowed to freely attack players, telling them to go to PvE, and all that without having the moderators giving them reprimand... Just seems like they allow for it to be a problem.

The act itself stifles any sort of discussion in many avenues because they derail the topic so fast with the PvE v PvP debate, that it's just a low jab compared to actually discussing anything in the slightest.

[Prat]

3 hours ago, Lycan187u said:

No salt bro haha I'm just stating  the facts it's a poop mount pve players don't care for your tears bro simple thing the code between pvp\pve should have been separate ... but now pve players must deal with pvp nerfs which is poop I play pvp I understand  how op the mana was but I also see how squishy it was aswell easily dealt with in fact  can kill rider\mana in minutes even befor the nerfs..

Great, you could kill it in minutes before the nerf. Meanwhile, it could kill anything in seconds from outside of turret range. And then whatever it was blasting had to be out of turret range. And now, now you have to use skill to freeze something before you start trashing it. You had an admin rifle of a creature, that's been taken away. Deal with it. This wasn't just OP in PvP situations, it was(and still is) ungodly OP in PvE as well. It was like giga dmg from range while freezing, and it can teleport. I have no sympathy for anyone crying about these nerfs, PvP or PvE.

[Lycan187u]

There was no teleporting lol with managamr...an had way less attack than a giga rofl was a poop tame from the beginning  I killed 10 ppl raiding me alone  an they're trash manas ... without  a doubt was so squishy a dilo could kill...

[Kazul]

It's fine now, just need to change the dmg reduction for distance. Because the distance is so small now it shouldn't scale as  much as it currently does.

[Lycan187u]

1 hour ago, Prat said:

Great, you could kill it in minutes before the nerf. Meanwhile, it could kill anything in seconds from outside of turret range. And then whatever it was blasting had to be out of turret range. And now, now you have to use skill to freeze something before you start trashing it. You had an admin rifle of a creature, that's been taken away. Deal with it. This wasn't just OP in PvP situations, it was(and still is) ungodly OP in PvE as well. It was like giga dmg from range while freezing, and it can teleport. I have no sympathy for anyone crying about these nerfs, PvP or PvE.

Literally if you don't play pve don't comment you have no idea lol 4 foundation  is as far as the ice breath  reaches lol nobody was crying but you rofl  what did the nerf do 0 lol still can be lethal as befor with the right rider...wyvern was the meta for along time when scrochet earth came all pvp did was cry wawawa now we have mana wawawa get gud ppl lolz adapt

[Techsupport]

here's a crazy idea:

what if we made them a little bit more nerfed then the original, and make them unbreedable, so that you can't make them too OP

[Prat]

59 minutes ago, Lycan187u said:

Literally if you don't play pve don't comment you have no idea lol 4 foundation  is as far as the ice breath  reaches lol nobody was crying but you rofl  what did the nerf do 0 lol still can be lethal as befor with the right rider...wyvern was the meta for along time when scrochet earth came all pvp did was cry wawawa now we have mana wawawa get gud ppl lolz adapt

There seems to be some sort of weird idea that because people play on PvP servers that we "don't play PvE". There are relatively few people that just jump into this game and solely go PvP. Most of us ALSO have to PvE quite a bit! Wow! Right? I've taken my rather crap mana out a few times in the last couple days and I've been fine. If you go test them you'll find that the majority of their damage isn't even from the breath, it's from the pounce. Freeze, pounce, repeat. They took away your ability to "LOLRIGHTCLICKANDDONE".

Your comparison of the wyvern and the mana is very poor. I remember the wyvern pre-nerf quite well, it still was no where NEAR as OP as manas were. It's just not even close to the same thing. This most recent nerf probably went too far, and I'd be willing to bet they'll correct it some. But the fact of the matter is that they released manas in a ridiculous state that should NEVER have been in the game at all.

And as for "it's easy to code differently for PvE vs. PvP", maybe you should leave that to the devs to decide. They don't seem to think so. And again, there's also the fact that PvP servers still have a very large amount of PvE on them. I really don't know why people seem to think that PvP means no PvE, this isn't rocket science.

[Caerbannog]

On 4/18/2019 at 1:37 PM, Cedric said:

Just wanted to drop in and say we're still looking at balance for Managarmr.  These changes have been a response to the community outcry about Mana being OP and damage analytics that suggests the same thing.  We're still listening and tweaking!  In regards to specific changes for PvE and PvP, it's been discussed.  It would require significant code changes to make it happen.  Not saying it's not possible or won't happen, but it's been (and being) discussed.

All you guys do is listen to PVP. All you have ever done is listen to PVP. PVErs are second class citizens. Ffs, why did you guys even put manas in the game if you were going to neuter them this hard? If I scream loudly enough about dilos, will you remove them, too? Or the annoying raptor pounce? Or the fact that reaper queens STILL mesh dinos, after all this time? Or the fact that MEKS take rad damage?

I have supported your game just as much as any PVPr. I deserve to be listened to as well.

[Kodking194]

3 minutes ago, Caerbannog said:

All you guys do is listen to PVP. All you have ever done is listen to PVP. PVErs are second class citizens. Ffs, why did you guys even put manas in the game if you were going to neuter them this hard? If I scream loudly enough about dilos, will you remove them, too? Or the annoying raptor pounce? Or the fact that reaper queens STILL mesh dinos, after all this time? Or the fact that MEKS take rad damage?

I have supported your game just as much as any PVPr. I deserve to be listened to as well.

so true, so so true, wild card dont really listen to pve citizens, pve is the rejected child to ark wild card made it and then said screw you now look at it. updates changing both modes when only really should be affecting one, wont fix pve trolling tactics.

[Onimusha759]

On 4/17/2019 at 6:04 AM, cocob1 said:

Youre fine with manas in PvE cause all you do is build pretty little bases and raise pink dinos, you dont have to put up with their ridiculiously OP ice breath freezing you every 30 seconds in every single pvp fight. PvE players really cannot comment on the mana if you dont have to deal with it on a daily basis imo

O ya, super op ice breath that freezes anything worthwhile for a quarter second.  I bet that gives me just enough time to push a button, OMG thats amazing, totally game breaking.  Sry raptor that outruns that rex and gives me enough time to hit a button MULTIPLE times!, your azz is getting nerfed b****.  XD, i mean really, the freeze is almost worthless on anything that could be a legitimate threat to the mana.  I cant say anything about the dmg but the range should be at least wyvern lvl as well as dmg being same range as animation.  Ive never tamed a mana and im doubting i want to anymore.  You can say it isnt endgame, but its the highest lvl non boss creature added in extinction pointing to that it is extinctions endgame "flier"(That cant do most flier things, like grab).  Also wolves charge meks which are considered above rex and anglers attack mosas, both cases are weaklings attacking known apex... Not the soundest argument @TheDonn.

[Kodking194]

manas are used in titan battles they need to be op

[SaltyMonkey]

35 minutes ago, Caerbannog said:

All you guys do is listen to PVP. All you have ever done is listen to PVP. PVErs are second class citizens. Ffs, why did you guys even put manas in the game if you were going to neuter them this hard? If I scream loudly enough about dilos, will you remove them, too? Or the annoying raptor pounce? Or the fact that reaper queens STILL mesh dinos, after all this time? Or the fact that MEKS take rad damage?

I have supported your game just as much as any PVPr. I deserve to be listened to as well.

Do you want a challenge or do you want easy mode?

I can see why people are so mad with these changes is because it forces them to go away from a 1 tame beats all. It adds diversity to the game forcing you to think about what you’re next action will be and we all know the vocal minority community hates thinking outside the box. Imagine a game with multiple tameable creatures where you have to use multiple tameable creatures?