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Weigh In: Options for the future of Primitive+

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1 minute ago, LaikaIwanowa said:

Well you also have to admit that it's not very fair for the vanilla game players to not be able to get Primitive Plus content added to the main game IF it is possible. But that's not even the important thing here.

We are talking about Primitive Plus, a big DLC. No matter if you are a long year Primitive Plus player or not (I am one myself Btw): Adding it into the main game is the best decision because in the long run it is easier to maintain, to update and we will no longer get updates that break Primitive Plus because it is a separate DLC. Being part of the main game will fix literally everything. And I gotta say it again: Add a checkbox in the settings which disables modern content so Primitive Plus players can limit themselves as always.

I am playing this for years and I'll be honest: If adding it to the main game fixes so much then I'll gladly give up my saves.

Personally I'd love to have the content in the main game, especially if it's available also without the checkbox route (but I'd also definitely check out the Prim+ more because I do have mods I enjoy and want to keep even with it, like CKF and Saddle Emporium.)

However there are people who worry over hours, days, even years of work going down the drain. And I sympathize with them. Finding a middle route, or a way for them to keep their hard work, would be beneficial in my opinion.

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Personally I'd love to have the content in the main game, especially if it's available also without the checkbox route (but I'd also definitely check out the Prim+ more because I do have mods I enjoy and want to keep even with it, like CKF and Saddle Emporium.)
However there are people who worry over hours, days, even years of work going down the drain. And I sympathize with them. Finding a middle route, or a way for them to keep their hard work, would be beneficial in my opinion.
I wonder if it is possible to convert Primitive Plus items and structures into the main game. That way Primitive Plus saves could be converted and they could keep their saves.

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Just now, LaikaIwanowa said:
4 minutes ago, Ihmislehma said:
Personally I'd love to have the content in the main game, especially if it's available also without the checkbox route (but I'd also definitely check out the Prim+ more because I do have mods I enjoy and want to keep even with it, like CKF and Saddle Emporium.)
However there are people who worry over hours, days, even years of work going down the drain. And I sympathize with them. Finding a middle route, or a way for them to keep their hard work, would be beneficial in my opinion.

I wonder if it is possible to convert Primitive Plus items and structures into the main game. That way Primitive Plus saves could be converted and they could keep their saves.

It should be, but the problem then is that all those items will be duplicated, increasing already high size (though probably not by that much).

Honestly, from what I've seen Prim+ has so many building options I would love to have at my disposal!

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Ihmislehma said:

It should be, but the problem then is that all those items will be duplicated, increasing already high size (though probably not by that much).

Honestly, from what I've seen Prim+ has so many building options I would love to have at my disposal!

You could make it temporarily. Like give them a month or so for the server to switch over and after that, you roll out another update which deletes the older ones.

Edit: I know it's all complicated but if it can be done?

Edited by LaikaIwanowa

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1 minute ago, LaikaIwanowa said:

You could make it temporarily. Like give them a month or so for the server to switch over and after that, you roll out another update which deletes the older ones.

Edit: I know it's all complicated but if it can be done?

Yeah probably. There would definitely need to be an adjusting period during which Prim+ players have the chance to save their progress in some way, if wiping is the way things will go.

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On 3/29/2019 at 9:50 PM, Cedric said:

Good question, I guess in theory you could preserve the total conversion - release it to the workshop - then prim plus servers could still run.  But it wouldn't receive updates.  So those servers would be stuck on that mode forever.

I think I would change my vote to keeping it as a mod or an option that can be chosen through nitrado. Like i have seen many say in chats, the primitive side could be overrun with the tek or advanced side of the game and make it difficult. I was too quick to choose as I love this game mode as many others do and see it having a lot of potential when it gets the love it needs. 

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Make it a part of the main game, I absolutely love everything about this mode, the additional farming, the additional resources, additional building pieces, but the one thing I don’t like is that you don’t have tranq darts or anything more potent than tranq arrows. But it would make a fantastic addition to the game! 

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Ok so for everyone who is talking about "Primitive Plus shouldnt be part of the main game because the Primitive Content will not be used: You can already disable certain engrams and stuff to your own liking and I am pretty sure you can implement a little checkbox that alters that automatically like the "Singleplayer Settings" option already does for some game values. I just tested it and disabled every modern content in the main game to make myself an own "Primitive Mode" and it works quite well.

I am sure the devs can implement something like this through a single button so you guys can keep your Primitive Style while playing the main game.

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Itd be intresting to see it integrated into the main game the hide harvester alone would be nice xD. But one thing for certain if you want any pvp players plant x needs a dmg buff for prime plus (should be as easy as a stat modifier to just make them have about the same dmg as heavys) or you need a separate turret type (ig venos kinda fix that so meh) and rn battle axes like 3 tap doors with base melee dmg (honestly bearly an exaggeration xD) however if integrated into the main game alot of those issues poof away and tbh i prefer the p+ industrial items so if implemented in a way where they can be learned on all maps but through odd means like adding a few explorers notes to all maps with recipes from a shaman or something xD(end of parkor puzzle in center for example) make it more annoying to craft say the indie forge (because its smaller so itd lead to more compact grind stations) and still have a lvl limit after unlock.at the very least a no tames cluster would fit perfectly on prim plus preferably with small tribe esq stat modifiers xD

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On 3/30/2019 at 2:49 AM, lilStrange_theJackalbaby said:

If were looking for the community to weigh in on a topic but half of these comments edmit they never played the game mode its self. That doesnt seem like a fair pool to get your info from :(

im a hard core prim player with years in both game modes ive been hosting a very populated prim center server for a year and see about 200 people a month on just the server i host. Most players come here to get away from tek.  Please dont mix the game types no prim player wants that its why we choose to play prim

I agree most people who play it now play to get away from tek. I have played it and I stopped playing it because it didn't have tek. It is hard to please everyone. I would say add it to the game for my preference. Then make a mod that takes out tek.

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Posted (edited)

I’ve played both

i would suggest putting some of prim + in the main game

but I do love prim +. I enjoy the challenge of not having advanced technology

i would also like to see the  immersive taming  mod added to prim plus along with some of s+

Along with the saddle mod. It just looks like it belongs

Over all I’d be happy with just being able to play it again 

xbox hasn’t been able to play that mode for a long time. So I’ll be happy with just playing it as is without crashing in under 5 mins

Edited by ryan103

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I agree most people who play it now play to get away from tek. I have played it and I stopped playing it because it didn't have tek. It is hard to please everyone. I would say add it to the game for my preference. Then make a mod that takes out tek.

If you don't like TEK then remove the engrams in your singleplayer settings/server settings. I tested it myself today and removed every modern content that way. Feels already pretty Primitive.

 

If they would now add Primitive Plus into the game it would basically be Primitive Plus without TEK stuff.

 

Add it to the main game. It's the best way to please everyone.

 

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I am completely uneducated about software hardware computer stuff modding stuff whatever it may be. I am an Xbox player and have been on prim + for about 2 years. I am assuming that with any changes being made on this topic, more likely than not our official servers with be gone and/or wiped? It’s hard for me to follow these conversations because of how much I don’t understand with the technical talk. Anyone care to “dumb it down” for me?

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Prim+ needs:
1. The blunderbus that was teased almost 2 years ago.
2. Make sure Ab/SE maps are balanced, and Prim+ works correctly on them.
3. Made in to a "stand alone" download that comes free with Ark.
Prim+ being a stand alone game would avoid the issues with TC and the game being updated, without losing any functionality, and maybe even allow Prim+ to be how it should be. ( Beeswax rebalenced, Reapers destroying brick, Plant X re balanced and optimized for prim+)
The list goes on.


 

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@Cedric, I have personally never played Primitive Plus, essentially because it had no Tek tier and being a Dinoriders/ Tek fan this was something I could not do without. :) 

With that said, Primitive Plus is really important to those that do not wish the modern / futuristic stuff, and Wildcard ended up embracing this group despite not being part of the original Ark Survival Evolved pitch. With that in mind, would integrating the mod offer  a "not Tek/metal" mode for this audience? It has a decent following it seems and while I do not care much for that mode, it would be a pretty harsh move to exclude the experience that audience were originally into. 

I am very happy with Ark base game without the Primitive Plus stuff. so if in order to meet that audience and not overly complicate Ark base game, perhaps Primitive Plus should be made into just a mod. On the other hand, while I do not like everything Primitive Plus has, there are some very genuine stuff there that could be added for variety such as constructions and a few unique resources.

My main concern summary:

- Would integrating Primitive Plus cause performance issues on Ark Survival Evolved base game / original maps? If so, I would rather not have it integrated.

- Converting Primitive Plus into a mod might be more sensible considering the no Tek/Metal for that audience. 

- We need to do right by Primitive Plus audiences so they do not feel excluded, I would hate to be in their shoes and be excluded, so I do not wish this upon them.

- While I do not like all Primitive Plus has to offer, there are some genuine cool stuff that could add to my vanilla experience, especially since I have been playing mostly solo recently and could use some additional novelty and shake ups, as long as I can still have it alongside my Tek stuff.

Its a tough predicament to be sure, I appreciate you bring this up for further considerations. 

Good luck!

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Posted (edited)

I have played over 10k hours in ark with 8k of those on Primitive Servers.  I am a co leader of a old primitive mega tribe that would surely all come back to play if we got our own Primitive cluster.  We are currently the alpha of the last 2 REAL primitive servers on the Official Network.   We all tried prim plus and it is mostly rp bull poop that gives you a long load time and still adds guns and explosives to primitive.  The turret limit needs to be adjusted on real prim.  Any base is easily raid-able with the current limit.  On PC Official Primitive never had The Center, Abberation, or Extinction.  When Ragnarok launched we also did not get that map until we started having everyone ask for it on the forums.  Real primitive gives ark a special feeling.  No longnecks or muskets to worry about people with aimbots.  No explosive barrels or c4 to worry about the dirty meshers.   

 

Primitive is different for me because it adds more depth and strategy with dino combat.  You end up with epic rex lines battling it out.  Where on any other ruleset all the riders would just be aimbotted off.  I will leave a link to my youtube channel and you can check out some of the past wars on real prim.  We enjoyed fighting with our dinos on primitive.   

\

Give us one of the new clusters with primitive rulesets.  Here is a video of the last real primitive war.  The last night before 90% of the primitive servers we're shut down to be re purposed.  We never had problems with aimbotters or meshers on primitive.  

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLVGGf2S_zI

 

Edited by Ganks
edit

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[mention=1109745]Cedric[/mention], I have personally never played Primitive Plus, essentially because it had no Tek tier and being a Dinoriders/ Tek fan this was something I could not do without. [emoji4] 

With that said, Primitive Plus is really important to those that do not wish the modern / futuristic stuff, and Wildcard ended up embracing this group despite not being part of the original Ark Survival Evolved pitch. With that in mind, would integrating the mod offer  a "not Tek/metal" mode for this audience? It has a decent following it seems and while I do not care much for that mode, it would be a pretty harsh move to exclude the experience that audience were originally into. 

I am very happy with Ark base game without the Primitive Plus stuff. so if in order to meet that audience and not overly complicate Ark base game, perhaps Primitive Plus should be made into just a mod. On the other hand, while I do not like everything Primitive Plus has, there are some very genuine stuff there that could be added for variety such as constructions and a few unique resources.

My main concern summary:

- Would integrating Primitive Plus cause performance issues on Ark Survival Evolved base game / original maps? If so, I would rather not have it integrated.

- Converting Primitive Plus into a mod might be more sensible considering the no Tek/Metal for that audience. 

- We need to do right by Primitive Plus audiences so they do not feel excluded, I would hate to be in their shoes and be excluded, so I do not wish this upon them.

- While I do not like all Primitive Plus has to offer, there are some genuine cool stuff that could add to my vanilla experience, especially since I have been playing mostly solo recently and could use some additional novelty and shake ups, as long as I can still have it alongside my Tek stuff.

Its a tough predicament to be sure, I appreciate you bring this up for further considerations. 

Good luck!

I can only repeat what I said about the problem with TEK tier and such: The Devs can create a option in a checkbox that automatically removes TEK/metal or other modern content from the main game. That way Primitive Plus can be part of the main game but also the fans of Primitive Plus can keep their Primitive Gameplay as it is.

 

Additionly with said option to remove modern content we can have official servers running as new "Primitive Plus" servers.

 

People need to stop complain about Primitive Plus getting destroyed if it is added to the main game. There are solutions to make everyone happy in this case.

 

Edit: Because I am a huge Primitive Plus fan I first also thought it would destroy Primitive Plus if it was added to the main game because of the TEK content. But then I got the idea of the checkbox option in the settings which can remove modern content so Primitive Plus players can still enjoy their content while playing the main game.

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Posted (edited)

besides if it was added to the main game i think it would be easyer to deal with then trying to overrite/update or destroy saved data from the island/normal ark vs ark/primitiveplus cause if it was for me...... i'd want the content added to my saved game on the island without my save data for the island to be deleted and start over... i rather just have engrams and stuff but added to the island and perhaps other maps cause again scorched earth has fire arrows already.... and primitive has its own...... just make fire arrows makeable in some way on all maps if u were to add primitive+ to vanilla ark... with its additons atleast by doing so u'd tackle the whole gardening theme........ adding in new boats to travel and ect and whatever else ced plans in the end for it,it will still allow players to fight the bosses to without needing to add primitive scuba stuff or gas mask to survive the redwoods cave..... however i guess u could still add such and make it easyer to craft without needing a fabricatored a (lesser verison of scuba/gas mask gear) that breaks quicker but makeable in inventory and repairable...... there is sooo much that can be added still that even vanilla ark could use.  but yeah i agree with u @LaikaIwanowa

Edited by danlillis

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, danlillis said:

besides if it was added to the main game i think it would be easyer to deal with then trying to overrite/update or destroy saved data from the island/normal ark vs ark/primitiveplus cause if it was for me...... i'd want the content added to my saved game on the island without my save data for the island to be deleted and start over... i rather just have engrams and stuff but added to the island and perhaps other maps cause again scorched earth has fire arrows already.... and primitive has its own...... just make fire arrows makeable in some way on all maps if u were to add primitive+ to vanilla ark... with its additons atleast by doing so u'd tackle the whole gardening theme........ adding in new boats to travel and ect and whatever else ced plans in the end for it,it will still allow players to fight the bosses to without needing to add primitive scuba stuff or gas mask to survive the redwoods cave..... however i guess u could still add such and make it easyer to craft without needing a fabricatored a (lesser verison of scuba/gas mask gear) that breaks quicker but makeable in inventory and repairable...... there is sooo much that can be added still that even vanilla ark could use.  but yeah i agree with u @LaikaIwanowa

When it comes to the save data question you can leave the main game saves as they are because they will only get new content added. The duplicated items like the fire arrow you mentioned...things like these have to be worked out by the devs themselves. But this doesn't hold back the idea of implementing Primitive Plus content into the main game. When we talk about primitive scuba masks, gas masks or such...that's something I was thinking about for months and I would say Wildcards can implement these later to the game to give Primitive Plus players the ability to play the full ARK Story without the need of TEK. Of course, it needs to be harder because it is primitive, but we could, for example, add a primitive gas mask that has a lot less durability or that gives you a reduced effect by the normal gas because it's "primitive". But that's not important when we talk about implementing Primitive Plus into the main game. The biggest problem we have when we talk about implementing Primitive Plus to the main game is: What happens to the original Primitive Plus saves? What happens to the servers? Well, I have two ideas for this, for the servers and for the singleplayer.

Servers: Convert the save and worlds of the Primitive Plus servers to main ones. They wouldn't replace another server this way but they will keep the save data.

Singleplayer: Either letting the player chooses on what save they want to continue playing (either the main game or Primitive Plus ones) or introduce a multi-save system for the different maps so their Primitive Plus save data will convert to the main one like in the Server idea I just explained, but in this case it will be added as a second save to choose from when you load the game.

I know this may be hard to pull off from a technical side but it is possible I think and we shouldn't forget here that we talk about the future of a big DLC. I really hope that @Cedric reads this here. Anyway, I am sure they will do the best for Primitive Plus in the end.

 

Edited by LaikaIwanowa
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Posted (edited)

I think it should be added to the main game this would add brick and metal as the same tier structure adding more diverse base building and with the new prim servers being added it would give more content to these servers.

The money it costs to update prim plus with every update that breaks it, it's probably best to add it to the game.

Prim plus was never made for the pvp part of the game it's pve so it will give the pve player's that play the main game some more content to mess with I think adding it to the main game is the best way forward for arks future.

I enjoyed it when it was big but with no updates to it, coming in the future it's pretty pointless for the devs to waste time fixing prim plus when the main game has bigger issues like meshing and ddosing that needs fixing.

Edited by EL1TExBLAZED

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I think that it'd be nice to get it over to a regular mod.  Stability and patching aside, the power balance on these servers because only a few tribes stuck it out with all the issues is just un godly.  Allowing the servers to be wiped and allowing more servers to be networked together would be really beneficial to the game.  One thing that might be cool and it would help with lag. And give ppl a reason to want to kill bosses in prim plus.  Make it where you get metal building engrams for beating the boss. Would be nice if I could have a door up without blocking it with a wall in order to protect it from some fresh beach noob.

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On 3/29/2019 at 8:05 PM, Cedric said:

Before we engage in this conversation, please keep it constructive.  It's also important to remember that there is no timeline or guarantee to the options proposed here.  Part of my job is to make sure the development and management side is armed with enough info from the community when they go to make these decisions.  I want to be able to take the conversation to the table when that happens.  Some of the things proposed will be unrealistic or not even possible, and that's OK.  The point is to start the conversation.

It's important to understand a few things about Primitive+ before we start.  It's a total conversion.  Total conversion overwrites core game files to make it easier for modders that plan on making lots of changes to the core game.  It edits those files directly instead of creating copies of them like traditional mods.  When the main game is updated, it overwrites those total conversion changes with the main game updates.  This means that total conversions like Primitive+ are hard to maintain because it's essentially creating the mod over with every update.  Those who play may notice that's why some bugs always reoccur.

So with that said I'll kick it off with some ideas that we've tossed around internally:

  • Convert it to a Mod
    • Positives: Easier maintenance internally, Faster updates, no recurring bugs, faster loading
    • Negatives: Wipe would most likely be needed, potential functionality loss
  • Seek Free (It's what XBOX uses for loading)
    • Positives: Faster loading
    • Negatives: Susceptible to issues with total conversions (listed above)
  • Integrate it into the main game
    • Positives: It's no longer a separate DLC and enhances the existing primitive content
    • Negatives: It loses the specific mode
  • Let the community maintain it
    • Positives: The community can deem where it should go
    • Negatives: I'm sure there will be a lot of logistics to figure out the right way to get this done

As I've stated, our last option is to remove content.  If you feel we should do so give me your thoughts.  Do you have some other options?  Weigh in!

personally i think you should wipe it but keep it as a separate DLC even add game modes for pvp like 6 man , 2 man. I havent played it in awhile reason being the lag was unbearable when Plant X spam was a thing 

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Played ark since its appeared on Xbox. As stuff got added and it became clear the game was moving away from what I enjoyed about it (the addition of all the tek) I started prim +. Yes prim plus has issues and I get that it's hassle to update, but u did create it lol. I prefer the PvP on prim, u have to use a good selection of tames. Like others have mentioned alot of the addition building items prim + has will only be of use to PvE players. Prim + players have put up with updates messing stuff up for ages and still play. 

If tek player want to mess around with lumber building parts then give it to them. But if I was you I would be concentrating on the meshing......

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