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kibble What's The Point?


Sikaflex

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21 minutes ago, Sikaflex said:

Any change or update they do they really need to put in the configuration for people running servers/locally themselves to decide.

 

What ? Every single little change ? There is no way this can be feasible surely. The file size alone would be imense, never mind the upkeep of those options with every update.

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5 hours ago, dodogal said:

Thanks for the effort, appreciated.

So basically they rely on the community to do their job?

You'd think with all the money they made from ark across numerous platforms, they could hire a couple of extra devs to do their job, right? ?

There is NO MOD to fix this mess so do it yourself WC ?

They are doing their job, the problem lies in the fact you disagree with what their job is. If they were not their bosses would fire them.

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5 hours ago, dodogal said:

Thanks for the effort, appreciated.

So basically they rely on the community to do their job?

You'd think with all the money they made from ark across numerous platforms, they could hire a couple of extra devs to do their job, right? ?

There is NO MOD to fix this mess so do it yourself WC ?

I'd say that maintaining the game and coming up with ways to make the game better instead of wasting time and resources giving people the option to make the game worse is doing their jobs.  Maintaining the old kibble alongside the new, much better kibble is very very very far down the list of the best things they can do with their time.  Hiring a couple extra devs to do that instead of having the extra devs do something that's actually beneficial would be an awful idea too.

Offline players should love this more than anyone.  I mean, you can't even buy eggs and things from other players. You're the last ones that should be saying "I have nothing to do if I don't have to tame 5 of every dino and build somewhere to put them and constantly keep them fed!"

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15 hours ago, iHartOvi8 said:

the new, much better kibble

Please cut the BS

It's neither much better nor much worse. It's just much different.

I play both pvp and solo modes and I know those two styles intimately. The new system is clearly meant to go straight to the point, so it's for pvp.

But it takes a huge part of the challenge / exploration / sandbox / fun in solo mode.

Solo people have built huge egg farms offline, sometimes rivaling noah's ark, and now you just tell them all their effort were useless? This is BS, period.

 

When a gameplay update is so extremely disruptive, yes there should be a way to revert. It is their job period. Just like translating the game to foreign languages is their job as well. And they didn't do it for a while, expecting the community to do it for them.

If they did put some wit into this update, it should have been possible to use both systems concurrently, nothing prevented it from happening technically. It's just sheer laziness from the devs. "meh some modder will do it for us so why bother"

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55 minutes ago, dodogal said:

Please cut the BS

It's neither much better nor much worse. It's just much different.

I play both pvp and solo modes and I know those two styles intimately. The new system is clearly meant to go straight to the point, so it's for pvp.

But it takes a huge part of the challenge / exploration / sandbox / fun in solo mode.

Solo people have built huge egg farms offline, sometimes rivaling noah's ark, and now you just tell them all their effort were useless? This is BS, period.

 

When a gameplay update is so extremely disruptive, yes there should be a way to revert. It is their job period. Just like translating the game to foreign languages is their job as well. And they didn't do it for a while, expecting the community to do it for them.

If they did put some wit into this update, it should have been possible to use both systems concurrently, nothing prevented it from happening technically. It's just sheer laziness from the devs. "meh some modder will do it for us so why bother"

It's absolutely much better and it's absolutely meant mostly for PVE and the insane amount of egg dinos that are tamed and constantly out on PVE servers...  And you're arguing that they shouldn't improve something for the future because people have already put time in to preparing for before it was as good?  That's ridiculous.  I went to another map and gathered the tribute to do the boss fight and did it just before they did the update adding new engrams I could've waited and unlocked instead of having to do it all over again.  Being upset that the massive egg farms now didn't need to be so massive after all is about as silly as being upset at them for adding new tek engrams after I already did all the bosses.

This is an excellent, much needed change and it will allow a lot of people to downsize a ton if they want to which will be good for everyone.

Ark could release an update that makes money pour out of your PC and people would still find a way to think the devs screwed them over.

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On 3/19/2019 at 6:16 AM, dodogal said:

Thanks for the effort, appreciated.

So basically they rely on the community to do their job?

You'd think with all the money they made from ark across numerous platforms, they could hire a couple of extra devs to do their job, right? ?

There is NO MOD to fix this mess so do it yourself WC ?

So if they choose not to do as you want them to, they aren't doing their job? ?

I prefer the new kibble system. 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. ?

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Developers just need to standby their product after reverting everything and unsubscribe from Reddit... Reddit gives them things to break.

NUBIFICATION

22 hours ago, iHartOvi8 said:

Ark could release an update that makes money pour out of your PC and people would still find a way to think the devs screwed them over.

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1 hour ago, ravenispurrty said:

Developers just need to standby their product after reverting everything and unsubscribe from Reddit... Reddit gives them things to break.

NUBIFICATION

 

3 hours ago, dodogal said:

Am I talking to a 7yo kid?


I'm standing by an unreal engine 4 project right now to answer too the loss of content challenge to arks initial game play with a first-person, shooter, survival, mma, sandbox, arena product that does not feature role playing aspects. I need graphics designers though. Really badly. Most people in the community refer developers to start a project off from the market place with either free or paid assets. I don't want to do that :P. 
 

2 hours ago, DeHammer said:

So if they choose not to do as you want them to, they aren't doing their job? ?

I prefer the new kibble system. 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. ?


It wont -- competition trails SWC.... There is high demand for all that complexity that is being lost. This is not the only project/person set out to deliver these things to the market that this studio first attracted (the complex-minded) and then shunned for the wallets of the lowest common denominator. If you move forward w/ us -- we're not looking to write/publish grace. The sequel is to remain and always be unforgiving. 

My moralization - its too hard for the exceptional players (players of which this studio initially attracted) to find a video game. Ark: Survival Evolved the very first steam video game that I had ever purchased. Prior to this game I spent most my time in studies relivent to law, biochemistry, nutrigenomics, and computer programming. I am addicted to systems. I studied at colleges for a living. Was a paid-student.

I understand that while a studio is out to please the majority then they can only displease the minority. we're out (from the start) to achieve the opposite.

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As one who has collected a lot of dino's mainly for the fun of it and a VAST majority of those I didn't bother to use kibble till later on in the game so I could have the 150 egg layer :):)

I have to wonder what do people consider was / is their key dino's that required them to run the gamut of tames for the perfect toy ?

What required dino can you now get so easily it destroys the game for you.

The reason I ask is I can't think of any key dino for myself that required 10 previous (arbitrary number) tames to get that kibble.

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7 hours ago, ravenispurrty said:

Prior to this game I spent most my time in studies relivent to law, biochemistry, nutrigenomics, and computer programming. I am addicted to systems. I studied at colleges for a living. Was a paid-student.

I understand that while a studio is out to please the majority then they can only displease the minority. we're out (from the start) to achieve the opposite.

 

Computer scientist & systems analyst here, working in post secondary education. I'm also well versed in the workings of systems. 

Ark basically got me back into gaming after more than a decade plus. My view of the experience though is based on the fact that all systems serve a purpose for a time, and are very likely to be replaced by newer systems over time. Embrace change - resistance is futile. I say, enjoy the Ark experience while you can, and accept that all things must change - the exception being the inevitability of change itself. 

From the perspective of the developers... at the end of the day its not about pleasing anyone - its business.. about making $$$$. Anyone that learns to accept that reality will be doing themselves a favor. 

I honestly do feel sorry for anyone who feels the need to announce their departure from a game because the developers aren't implementing their wishes. They are confused and delusional about their relative importance in the grand scheme of things. So again I say to them... enjoy the game, and if you do not - then leave with some quiet dignity. No one cares - it's a game experience you pay for to enjoy for a limited time - that's the reality. 

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3 hours ago, Korizan said:

What required dino can you now get so easily it destroys the game for you.

That expression... "destroys the game for you"... touches the heart of the issue, I think. 

If people were honest, they'd admit some of their best memories of the game were the early challenges - getting their first tame dino, their first flier, etc. It's inherent in the nature of the game that as you progress everything gets easier for you. The same is true of those who invest in the game by gathering, building, etc. They reach new levels of fulfillment by investing themselves into projects. Meanwhile others who only want to raid for wyverns eggs, get bored with the game easily. The point of playing any game is the journey - the enjoyable experience - not the destination. Any well designed game destroys itself over time, leaving the invested player feeling the value of an enjoyable experience. Like a delicious meal that is slowly consumed and remembered fondly. 

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short story long, a change that is so extremely disruptive of all the hours spent in the game, should always come up with option to stick to the legacy system, this is common sense and the game is no longer early access, at least officially

I don't usually act like an entitled child and I have to stress that not including the legacy system makes absolutely no sense

devs have decided to take the lazy path and once again a significant portion of the player base feels like they were screwed up, ARK will get even more negative ratings, that's all

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To kind of wrap this up, you all have made really great points.

I don't think I considered it a real waste of time to work my way up the tier to a specific type of kibble in order to tame a certain dinosaur. I thought it was challenging, however come to think of it, I never really did do this, I skipped ahead taming whatever creature I wanted with prime meat / mejoberries etc, but I did tame a bunch of those that would save me time taming certain creatures via the kibble made.

I do think the new system is better now that I read some of your posts and see your viewpoints.

I like the fact we don't need to have such a big farm and useless dinos for eggs.

These developers do know what they are doing and I am sure they thought about this much more than we have.

Good Day!

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27 minutes ago, DeHammer said:

That expression... "destroys the game for you"... touches the heart of the issue, I think. 

If people were honest, they'd admit some of their best memories of the game were the early challenges - getting their first tame dino, their first flier, etc. It's inherent in the nature of the game that as you progress everything gets easier for you. The same is true of those who invest in the game by gathering, building, etc. They reach new levels of fulfillment by investing themselves into projects. Meanwhile others who only want to raid for wyverns eggs, get bored with the game easily. The point of playing any game is the journey - the enjoyable experience - not the destination. Any well designed game destroys itself over time, leaving the invested player feeling the value of an enjoyable experience. Like a delicious meal that is slowly consumed and remembered fondly. 

You're making the exact same mistake our opponents are consistently making, and sometimes belligerent doubling down on, making fools of themselves like the poster above who appears to be attempting to argue that the new system is objectively better without referent (referant?).

While your analysis is accurate for a good portion of the gaming population, I'd argue that the majority actually feels differently. Tetris was the biggest selling game of all time and had extremely little of what you describe.

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1 hour ago, Oldster said:

You're making the exact same mistake our opponents are consistently making, and sometimes belligerent doubling down on, making fools of themselves like the poster above who appears to be attempting to argue that the new system is objectively better without referent (referant?).

While your analysis is accurate for a good portion of the gaming population, I'd argue that the majority actually feels differently. Tetris was the biggest selling game of all time and had extremely little of what you describe.

Apples & oranges. You're comparing sales to consumption and they aren't necessarily the same thing. Tetris was a great game. I enjoyed playing it for a day or so - like many people (I'd say most) and don't even think I ever purchased it. 'Best selling' is a deceiving term in this context. It refers only to separate individual instances of sales over time, not substance or sustained interest to an individual over time, which is the context of this discussion. Personally, I'm late to the Ark party, but I'm confident there's plenty left to do in Ark. At the same time, others are leaving the party early - their choice & their excuses. I gauge 'value' in consideration of what I get out of a game, in relation to what it cost me. I already consider my Ark experience well worth the 'cost', and I'm only part way through. I'm going to enjoy the game just as much or more with the new kibble system. If they revert eventually, I'll still enjoy it. People choose to see the game as 'ruined' for them. Too bad for them.  

 

By the way... what I enjoy about the new kibble system is the 'choice' in terms of eggs. The new system is nonsensical in many ways - relating egg size to kibble quality (huh?!?!). Or the kibble is 'exceptional' quality, but only loved by a select few dinos (huh?!?!). But as has been pointed out, its now more of a sandbox - for a sandbox game. 

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7 hours ago, Sikaflex said:

To kind of wrap this up, you all have made really great points.

I don't think I considered it a real waste of time to work my way up the tier to a specific type of kibble in order to tame a certain dinosaur. I thought it was challenging, however come to think of it, I never really did do this, I skipped ahead taming whatever creature I wanted with prime meat / mejoberries etc, but I did tame a bunch of those that would save me time taming certain creatures via the kibble made.

I do think the new system is better now that I read some of your posts and see your viewpoints.

I like the fact we don't need to have such a big farm and useless dinos for eggs.

These developers do know what they are doing and I am sure they thought about this much more than we have.

Good Day!

Exactly, you see a lot of people talk about the progression of the old kibble but if you were ever doing it that way you were doing it wrong anyway.  When you want an argy, you go tranq a bunch of stegos as low level as possible and tame them with berries so you can kibble tame a good argy.  You don't tame a bunch of dilos so you can kibble tame a bunch of ankylos so you can kibble tame a bunch of trikes so you can kibble tame a bunch of carnos so you can kibble tame a bunch of stegos so you can kibble tame a good argy.  So it doesn't change a whole lot about early game and working your way up to your first good tame of each dino.  It just eliminates the need later game to tame and maintain a bunch of dinos just for their eggs. 

It allows you to use more of your time for things that are actually useful and I suspect the people that don't like it and now think they have nothing to do are mostly people that don't want to tackle the task of building up to be able to do boss fights and things like that.  There's a difference between "challenging" and "unnecessarily tedious and time consuming" and this eliminates some of the latter without eliminating any of the former.  People constantly complain about lag and crashing, then when a change is made that will lead to a lot of downsizing and hopefully help those issues, people want the devs spending time on giving them the ability to pass up on that improvement.

I'm all for giving players options instead of just forcing them to do things one way or the other on things that are matters of personal preference, but this is something that's objectively better and that would be a waste of resources to give players that option instead of working on actual improvements to the game.  It's not a simple "let us flip a switch in the settings."

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9 hours ago, DeHammer said:

 

Computer scientist & systems analyst here, working in post secondary education. I'm also well versed in the workings of systems. 

Ark basically got me back into gaming after more than a decade plus. My view of the experience though is based on the fact that all systems serve a purpose for a time, and are very likely to be replaced by newer systems over time. Embrace change - resistance is futile. I say, enjoy the Ark experience while you can, and accept that all things must change - the exception being the inevitability of change itself. 

From the perspective of the developers... at the end of the day its not about pleasing anyone - its business.. about making $$$$. Anyone that learns to accept that reality will be doing themselves a favor. 

I honestly do feel sorry for anyone who feels the need to announce their departure from a game because the developers aren't implementing their wishes. They are confused and delusional about their relative importance in the grand scheme of things. So again I say to them... enjoy the game, and if you do not - then leave with some quiet dignity. No one cares - it's a game experience you pay for to enjoy for a limited time - that's the reality. 

Likes it, agreed-- the other thing is that there has been mounds and mounds of work achieved by the communities (Unity, UE, More...) to make sure that if they really wanted to do anything about something then they have not just the means but the ease to achieve those things. I wrote an entire UWP wrapper for UE4... in BLUEPRINTS . (UML)....

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8 hours ago, Oldster said:

You're making the exact same mistake our opponents are consistently making, and sometimes belligerent doubling down on, making fools of themselves like the poster above who appears to be attempting to argue that the new system is objectively better without referent (referant?).

While your analysis is accurate for a good portion of the gaming population, I'd argue that the majority actually feels differently. Tetris was the biggest selling game of all time and had extremely little of what you describe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_(Atari) your making an invalid association between the product Tetris and its sales. 1988 -- the Atari..... 

Games now come in many flavors and are available on every operating system do to a) the nature of UML (unified modelling languages) b) the nature of intermediate compilers/high level programming languages and the more.... My point is you'd never play 'Tetris' on a 'SEGA' just like you'd never play 'Mario' on an 'ATARI'....

Atari ------------------------------- That's legacy now! and so we forget....

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2 hours ago, iHartOvi8 said:

Exactly, you see a lot of people talk about the progression of the old kibble but if you were ever doing it that way you were doing it wrong anyway.  When you want an argy, you go tranq a bunch of stegos as low level as possible and tame them with berries so you can kibble tame a good argy.  You don't tame a bunch of dilos so you can kibble tame a bunch of ankylos so you can kibble tame a bunch of trikes so you can kibble tame a bunch of carnos so you can kibble tame a bunch of stegos so you can kibble tame a good argy.  So it doesn't change a whole lot about early game and working your way up to your first good tame of each dino.  It just eliminates the need later game to tame and maintain a bunch of dinos just for their eggs. 

It allows you to use more of your time for things that are actually useful and I suspect the people that don't like it and now think they have nothing to do are mostly people that don't want to tackle the task of building up to be able to do boss fights and things like that.  There's a difference between "challenging" and "unnecessarily tedious and time consuming" and this eliminates some of the latter without eliminating any of the former.  People constantly complain about lag and crashing, then when a change is made that will lead to a lot of downsizing and hopefully help those issues, people want the devs spending time on giving them the ability to pass up on that improvement.

I'm all for giving players options instead of just forcing them to do things one way or the other on things that are matters of personal preference, but this is something that's objectively better and that would be a waste of resources to give players that option instead of working on actual improvements to the game.  It's not a simple "let us flip a switch in the settings."

That is still progressive. 

"tranq a bunch of stegos as low level as possible and tame them with berries so you can kibble tame a good argy." Capture.thumb.PNG.e156888eb388884112b06ad5ea9fe31f.PNG

It changes... a lot.... gigas eat mejos now (imprints).... I can feed a theri its own period and wind up with more taming efficiency... that is simply 'broke'....

Capture.PNG



It would be better if therizinosaurus egg kibble had classification superior, was still therizinosaurus egg kibble, and therizinos could not be tamed with therizinosaurus egg kibble while babies keep their comforts system.

 

 

 

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On 3/18/2019 at 7:35 PM, Whipples said:

I liked the new kibble system till I realized the new imprint system fixed everything I wanted. So I gotta agree with the OP.

Carnivores can be tamed via mutton or prime meaning the kibble isn't as critical for them with a few exceptions (Thyla). The useful herbivores could all be tamed with high efficiency using crop, just with an insanely long tame with crops (Therizinos). The only annoying bit was really the imprint kibble. If you wanted something rare, you had to work for it, but if all you wanted was something for base building, travel, or bosses, it wasn't a big deal.

Now its still not a big deal for the common stuff and all the challenge of the rarer stuff is gone.

There is no longer a kibble progression system. Getting rare stuff is boring now.

 

Well even with veggies and mutton on a 2x weekend u still cant perfect tame a 120.  U lose a lot of power if u dont tame high lvls with kibble.  The weaker the creature the longer ull b breeding in the end game trying to 1st regain what u could of had over the course of a month or 2 or more and then actually breeding for the extra power u actually need over another 2 or more months.

 

On 3/18/2019 at 7:37 PM, iHartOvi8 said:

Super weird how many people have the "not having to tame a ton of dinos I don't actually want instead of spending my time on any one of 20 million other things is boring" opinion.

Its because the majority of the game thats actually fun is the hunt and taming.  Its lik 90% of the game for most of us.  The rest of the fun is a lil building, its less so for me.  If u take taming ur really only left with cave/bosses and breeding.  So mainly what u hav is breeding which takes pkmns already horribly stupid grind of breeding and multiplies it b 100x.  I for 1 absolutely hate breeding and i hav the rates thru the frigging roof for it.  Its so darn game killing boring even with the stupid high rates i hav for it.  I really try to play full on legit but theres no way in heck the average person could handle this bs, and people tell me im a patient person and im telling u if all i had was breeding id never play this  game  again.

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3 minutes ago, Onimusha759 said:

Well even with veggies and mutton on a 2x weekend u still cant perfect tame a 120.  U lose a lot of power if u dont tame high lvls with kibble.  The weaker the creature the longer ull b breeding in the end game trying to 1st regain what u could of had over the course of a month or 2 or more and then actually breeding for the extra power u actually need over another 2 or more months.

 

Its because the majority of the game thats actually fun is the hunt and taming.  Its lik 90% of the game for most of us.  The rest of the fun is a lil building, its less so for me.  If u take taming ur really only left with cave/bosses and breeding.  So mainly what u hav is breeding which takes pkmns already horribly stupid grind of breeding and multiplies it b 100x.  I for 1 absolutely hate breeding and i hav the rates thru the frigging roof for it.  Its so darn game killing boring even with the stupid high rates i hav for it.  I really try to play full on legit but theres no way in heck the average person could handle this bs, and people tell me im a patient person and im telling u if all i had was breeding id never play this  game  again.

With you on the breeding. Breeding is just a huge time sink on official rates. People can defend it as much as they want but try explaining it to someone who doesn’t play Ark and you’ll soon realise how insane you sound.

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29 minutes ago, Onimusha759 said:

Well even with veggies and mutton on a 2x weekend u still cant perfect tame a 120.  U lose a lot of power if u dont tame high lvls with kibble.  The weaker the creature the longer ull b breeding in the end game trying to 1st regain what u could of had over the course of a month or 2 or more and then actually breeding for the extra power u actually need over another 2 or more months.

 

Its because the majority of the game thats actually fun is the hunt and taming.  Its lik 90% of the game for most of us.  The rest of the fun is a lil building, its less so for me.  If u take taming ur really only left with cave/bosses and breeding.  So mainly what u hav is breeding which takes pkmns already horribly stupid grind of breeding and multiplies it b 100x.  I for 1 absolutely hate breeding and i hav the rates thru the frigging roof for it.  Its so darn game killing boring even with the stupid high rates i hav for it.  I really try to play full on legit but theres no way in heck the average person could handle this bs, and people tell me im a patient person and im telling u if all i had was breeding id never play this  game  again.

Taming is still there though, you just don't have to tame as many things that you don't actually want...  And I gotta disagree big time on breeding, even the 3x event feels way too easy for me to want that all the time.

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