RE: Kibble Rework

[3mptylord]

Context: I'm a veteran player returning after a year-or-so break. I'm starting from scratch with a few other friends.

The issue: there's no longer any progression. Basic creatures both prefer and produce basic eggs. For example, Dodos, Dilos and Parasaurs produce Basic Kibble; Basic Kibble is preferred by Dodos, Dilos and Parasaurs. In my opinion: taming low level creatures should be the entry point for moving up. Taming a handful of early dodos, dilos and parasaurs should open up the ability to tame trikes and raptors - I don't feel it's a good design choice to have to tame low-level (or spend hours taming a high level) raptors just to get the kibble to tame good raptors. 

Proposal: the preferred kibble of most egg-laying creatures should be moved down by one tier/to the tier below the tier of their own eggs, even if it means the current list of creatures-that-prefer-basic get bumped back down to not having a preferred kibble (which they didn't before, anyway). 

 

[Zack2]

This kibble change happened a week ago its not gonna change any time soon.

[Balska]

2 hours ago, 3mptylord said:

Taming a handful of early dodos, dilos and parasaurs should open up the ability to tame trikes and raptors - I don't feel it's a good design choice to have to tame low-level (or spend hours taming a high level) raptors just to get the kibble to tame good raptors. 

 

That's why they added kibble rework, to remove max useless dinos as possible to prevent from tamecap and lags

[Gabriel388]

4 hours ago, 3mptylord said:

Context: I'm a veteran player returning after a year-or-so break. I'm starting from scratch with a few other friends.

The issue: there's no longer any progression. Basic creatures both prefer and produce basic eggs. For example, Dodos, Dilos and Parasaurs produce Basic Kibble; Basic Kibble is preferred by Dodos, Dilos and Parasaurs. In my opinion: taming low level creatures should be the entry point for moving up. Taming a handful of early dodos, dilos and parasaurs should open up the ability to tame trikes and raptors - I don't feel it's a good design choice to have to tame low-level (or spend hours taming a high level) raptors just to get the kibble to tame good raptors. 

Proposal: the preferred kibble of most egg-laying creatures should be moved down by one tier/to the tier below the tier of their own eggs, even if it means the current list of creatures-that-prefer-basic get bumped back down to not having a preferred kibble (which they didn't before, anyway). 

 

You really feel the changes when you are starting from scratch as an experienced player. It is definitely not easier. When you are trying to get the fast flying bird,  no more Dodo eggs. Dodo eggs you could get so fast to make kibble because Dodos lay eggs fast and are easy to tame. Now you need turtle eggs which is quite slow. Turtles take a while to tame and also take a while to lay eggs as well. And they are slow as well. 

When the new kibble system came into effect, a lot of the old kibbles were rendered useless especially if that kibble you were saving and making is now in the wrong kibble tree for the dinosaur you were planning to tame. All that planning and effort went to waste for the older players. 

You just have to get used to the new system. It's a lot simpler to remember. I think even I can remember the ingredients of all 6 kibbles. Good luck.

[3mptylord]

 

On 3/13/2019 at 2:07 AM, Zack2 said:

This kibble change happened a week ago its not gonna change any time soon.

I'm not exactly asking for a re-rework - just a tweak in preferences.

On 3/13/2019 at 3:25 AM, Balska said:

 

That's why they added kibble rework, to remove max useless dinos as possible to prevent from tamecap and lags

The purpose of the rework was to reduce the amount of tames needed - not remove the need for entire tiers of dinos. There's virtually no point to taming things like dilos and dodos any more - they're literally not useful for anything. 

On 3/13/2019 at 5:30 AM, Gabriel388 said:

You really feel the changes when you are starting from scratch as an experienced player. It is definitely not easier. When you are trying to get the fast flying bird,  no more Dodo eggs. Dodo eggs you could get so fast to make kibble because Dodos lay eggs fast and are easy to tame. Now you need turtle eggs which is quite slow. Turtles take a while to tame and also take a while to lay eggs as well. And they are slow as well. 

When the new kibble system came into effect, a lot of the old kibbles were rendered useless especially if that kibble you were saving and making is now in the wrong kibble tree for the dinosaur you were planning to tame. All that planning and effort went to waste for the older players. 

You just have to get used to the new system. It's a lot simpler to remember. I think even I can remember the ingredients of all 6 kibbles. Good luck.

I'm not doubting I'll get used to it, and since I'm playing on an increased rate server I can just use Mutton/Prime Meat and not have any discernible difference in taming effectiveness - but on principle the current set-up, especially for new players or official-server players, is just bad. There's no reason to tame "small egg" dinos because their kibble is completely useless. 

I don't think this rework should have removed the progression element of the old system, when the goal was to reduce the clutter/complexity. 

 

[Balska]

2 hours ago, 3mptylord said:

The purpose of the rework was to reduce the amount of tames needed - not remove the need for entire tiers of dinos. There's virtually no point to taming things like dilos and dodos any more - they're literally not useful for anything.

you don't understand what i'm saying, that was for reduce tame cap as possible too, same idea with the cryopods

[AngrySaltire]

2 hours ago, 3mptylord said:

 There's no reason to tame "small egg" dinos because their kibble is completely useless. 

Imprinting kibble ? 

[TheDonn]

10 minutes ago, Balska said:

you don't understand what i'm saying, that was for reduce tame cap as possible too, same idea with the cryopods

Think with your brain, about how people tame dinosaurs.  Please come to the logical and inescapable conclusion that THE KIBBLE REWORK WILL NOT POSITIVELY AFFECT THE TAMECAP IN ANY WAY.  For the one-hundred-quintillionth time, please for the love of Raptor Jesus understand that if people in a capped PvE tribe (500 dinos, not talking about server cap) pod 10 egg-layers, they will replace those 10 dinos WITH 10 DIFFERENT DINOS.

Less required dinos in no way at all means that people will tame less dinos overall.  Please stop shilling the kibble rework and cryopods as saviors to the PvE tamecap, because they have no positive effect in the long term.  None.

None at all.

[3mptylord]

34 minutes ago, Balska said:

you don't understand what i'm saying, that was for reduce tame cap as possible too, same idea with the cryopods

If that was the goal (and regardless of whether or not it was successful, before TheDonn says anything): that could have still been achieved without removing the progression.

Dodos -> Raptors versus Raptors -> Raptors doesn't change the number of poop low levels you have to tame in order to tame high levels - the complaint is about which low levels you have to tame in order to progress through the list of tames. 

[Balska]

2 hours ago, TheDonn said:

Think with your brain, about how people tame dinosaurs.  Please come to the logical and inescapable conclusion that THE KIBBLE REWORK WILL NOT POSITIVELY AFFECT THE TAMECAP IN ANY WAY.  For the one-hundred-quintillionth time, please for the love of Raptor Jesus understand that if people in a capped PvE tribe (500 dinos, not talking about server cap) pod 10 egg-layers, they will replace those 10 dinos WITH 10 DIFFERENT DINOS.

Less required dinos in no way at all means that people will tame less dinos overall.  Please stop shilling the kibble rework and cryopods as saviors to the PvE tamecap, because they have no positive effect in the long term.  None.

None at all..

I didn't read everything, your message is bored as f*ck and sounds like a beginner one :). There is no reason to left dinos on the base anymore, old dinos for specific kibbles can be removed and replaced by news one. That's reducing the amount of dinos required, cryopods was released for your beauty eyes? Lel. YOU use your brain or go f*ck yourself by trying to taunt others players  i only have like 200 dinos out and that's just for mutations searchs anyway

[Duffmek]

2 hours ago, Balska said:

you don't understand what i'm saying, that was for reduce tame cap as possible too, same idea with the cryopods

cryopods are a godsend to players actually playing the game .. to the parkers and breeders and other dormant players they do not use pods nor do they care about the kibble system so we still have hundreds of useless dinos sat around in bases leeching tame caps / limits - the new system is okish but is far from perfect with progression of getting better dinos, as an example imagine starting brand new on a new server no char nothing lvl 1 fresh bob on a beach ... now look at that kibble system again ....

[TheDonn]

2 hours ago, Balska said:

I didn't read everything, your message is bored as f*ck and sounds like a beginner one :). There is no reason to left dinos on the base anymore, old dinos for specific kibbles can be removed and replaced by news one. That's reducing the amount of dinos required, cryopods was released for your beauty eyes? Lel. YOU use your brain or go f*ck yourself by trying to taunt others players  i only have like 200 dinos out and that's just for mutations searchs anyway

If you want to respond, read what I write.  Otherwise its not a discussion, its just you trying to prove how much of an "I don't look back at explosions" cool-guy you are.

Let's think here Balska...  ARK has a dynamic playerbase, and one definite fact of this is:  As sure as people quit playing, more people join.  Do the people that join tame nothing?  Do the preexisting tribes cryopod 20 egglayers and then stop taming/breeding?  Because the only way that cryopods help the tamecap is that these two things happen.  If they do not exactly happen, cryopods are nothing more than a fancy and easy way to move dinos around.  The tamecap situation is only relieved by less people playing on a single server, and/or people having less dinos.  As ARK goes on, neither of those situations are at all affected by cryopods.  In your message, you EVEN ADMIT that this is the truth and validate perfectly the point I was making:  "old dinos for specific kibbles can be removed and replaced by new [sp] one." 

"replaced by new one" - The entirety of the truth.  Seems while you are trying to cuss me out by bypassing the profanity filter, you get the point I was trying to make.

You trying to ad-hominem my post (beginner one?  what the hell does that even mean man?), brusque as it was, and condescend from an inferior point-of-view with "lel" and overuse of emojis does little to disguise the fact that while you might be a God of the Server Community who cares SO MUCH for other people that you 'podded all but 200 as you breed for new mutations, the unspeaking masses on your same servers aren't 'podding a damn thing.  Hell man, I never said that I didn't 'pod most of my dinos on most of my servers, because I did too!  But guess what?  Rag and Island are still capped.  Once again, zero effect on the tamecap.  It's just a nice way to move dinos around.

[TheDonn]

On 3/12/2019 at 7:07 PM, 3mptylord said:

The issue: there's no longer any progression. Basic creatures both prefer and produce basic eggs. For example, Dodos, Dilos and Parasaurs produce Basic Kibble; Basic Kibble is preferred by Dodos, Dilos and Parasaurs. In my opinion: taming low level creatures should be the entry point for moving up. Taming a handful of early dodos, dilos and parasaurs should open up the ability to tame trikes and raptors - I don't feel it's a good design choice to have to tame low-level (or spend hours taming a high level) raptors just to get the kibble to tame good raptors. 

I hear ya though empty, personally some of the choices for the new kibble system are head-scratchers.  As you say, taming Raptors to get better Raptors, or Ankys to get better Ankys, I dunno...  Seems weird.  Good points about the rework were the reallocation of tames that have long been underappreciated because of where they used to sit on the kibble trees, most notably Dimetrodons and Gallimimus.

Again, personally I wish I could say I feel like they will change it to introduce more of a progression-system.  But as someone pointed out earlier, this system is brand-new and likely not going anywhere.  We'd just better find the positives in it and deal with the negatives for now, like the fact that you can have a raw-meat powered incubation room pretty easily.

[TheDonn]

3 hours ago, Duffmek said:

cryopods are a godsend to players actually playing the game .. to the parkers and breeders and other dormant players they do not use pods nor do they care about the kibble system so we still have hundreds of useless dinos sat around in bases leeching tame caps / limits - the new system is okish but is far from perfect with progression of getting better dinos, as an example imagine starting brand new on a new server no char nothing lvl 1 fresh bob on a beach ... now look at that kibble system again ....

I actually did just that Duff, on an unofficial server (no crazy boosts, only 2x all), to see how the new kibble system flows for a level 1.  As you and others may suspect, it doesn't flow at all.  The first kind of kibble you can access opens a flood of tames you can get, but they all just tame each other so its only lateral movement.  To break into the next tier, it works best to look for the EASIEST thing to tame on that tier and get 1 M and 2 F, and wait around for eggs.  Or 1 M and 8 F, I don't know people's process!  Each tier does open up a decent amount of new available tames for sure, but it quickly caps out in progress as most people don't have any use/need to run through the entire list of dinos in the Basic tier before going out for Simple tier dinos (and repeating on every dino in each tier).

[3mptylord]

On 3/20/2019 at 9:39 PM, TheDonn said:

I hear ya though empty, personally some of the choices for the new kibble system are head-scratchers.  As you say, taming Raptors to get better Raptors, or Ankys to get better Ankys, I dunno...  Seems weird.  Good points about the rework were the reallocation of tames that have long been underappreciated because of where they used to sit on the kibble trees, most notably Dimetrodons and Gallimimus.

Again, personally I wish I could say I feel like they will change it to introduce more of a progression-system.  But as someone pointed out earlier, this system is brand-new and likely not going anywhere.  We'd just better find the positives in it and deal with the negatives for now, like the fact that you can have a raw-meat powered incubation room pretty easily.

Given that the kibble itself is "this or higher" in all situations (both taming and imprinting, i.e. if it says "Basic" it means "Basic or higher") there not really any point in having an incubation room - just make Extraordinary Kibble. Everyone already has a lot of Quetz/Rex eggs, and everyone already has a lot of hives for veggie cakes - so that's both of the "hard" ingredients covered. You don't need jerky or prime meat. Most people already have a farm set-up for the second best kibble - meaning you have kibble that works for pretty much all situations. All you need to do is keep the crap wyvern/rock eggs for the occasional times you need Exceptional Kibble and you're sorted. 

That doesn't help with my progression complaint, but if you're looking for the optimal solution to the current system - that's probably it. 

Also, the fact it's brand-new should mean it's more likely to get changed - surely? Well, that's the logic any other game would apply and ARK usually does too. New things are more likely to be badly balanced or bugged and thus in need to prompt rebalancing. 

[TheDonn]

2 hours ago, 3mptylord said:

Given that the kibble itself is "this or higher" in all situations (both taming and imprinting, i.e. if it says "Basic" it means "Basic or higher") there not really any point in having an incubation room - just make Extraordinary Kibble. Everyone already has a lot of Quetz/Rex eggs, and everyone already has a lot of hives for veggie cakes - so that's both of the "hard" ingredients covered. You don't need jerky or prime meat. Most people already have a farm set-up for the second best kibble - meaning you have kibble that works for pretty much all situations. All you need to do is keep the crap wyvern/rock eggs for the occasional times you need Exceptional Kibble and you're sorted. 

 That doesn't help with my progression complaint, but if you're looking for the optimal solution to the current system - that's probably it. 

Also, the fact it's brand-new should mean it's more likely to get changed - surely? Well, that's the logic any other game would apply and ARK usually does too. New things are more likely to be badly balanced or bugged and thus in need to prompt rebalancing. 

You are correct, but the history of changes in ARK suggests that (from what I've seen) they like to leave things in place to see if the community-at-large will just deal with them, so they don't have to change them again.  Even if the community is unhappy, but the system functions, they will watch because as many have pointed out, Exceptional kibble is good for 95% or more of tames, and people have tons of Rexs!  So the system functions.  WildCard is definitely fast to fix broken things, but not functioning things that people don't like from what I've seen.

I could be wrong?  Well, I hope I am.  But this is what I've seen.

[Jemcrystal]

I don't like the new Kibble System.  I don't like the old Kibble System.  Neither are helping with lag problems. 

RANT COMING

Neither are making it easier to tame anything.  I waste most my time in multiplayer just feeding pets and trying not to loose a base or outpost to auto decay.  Moving out of a server and letting other people have my land because they b*ed and moaned that I take up room even tho they have more outposts and pillars than I do.  Restarting my life on new servers to do it all over again cause I build my castle wrong.  Being to old and tired.  I haven't even tamed an Argie yet and I have played multiplayer for almost a year now.  Can't keep up with this younger generation who do everything in one day (on weekend cause 2x).  I'm old.  I need naps or back in the hospital with heart conditions.  And you never turned down the sound of people going into boss fights that makes my heart explode and give me health issues.

All Kibble Systems suck rocks.  I'm sick of them completely.  I want an easy system that helps me tame anything I want to tame; I don't want to get eaten by tigers in the dark forest looking for sap.  I want people to have a good reason to stop bulking up their bases with 100 bred rexes, 100 bred dragons, 100 anything so farking big it bust my graphic card when I go past.   HUMONGOUS ARF BUILDINGS full of fat arf dinos!  Did the cryopods help?  NO  Did the new kibble help?  NO

I don't even know where one goes to get a cryopod and I wouldn't use one for all the forum squeals I see saying, "my dino got stolen," and "my dino disappeared in the cryopod."  Sounds like cryopods are borked.

 

[Kaprosuchus]

There was never a sense of progression for dino taming considering most people just got a half dozen of whatever dino they needed and got like level 10 ones.  do you really think those scorpion farms for rex kibble were really living any sort of quality life? The problem with dinosaurs being useless isn't the kibble system, it's that they are useless.

You can still tame whatever dinosaurs you want to stare at and park them in your yard, i promise.