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YourFavoriteOni

managarmr These Nerfs Need To Be Fixed!!

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What a sad, sad day...

So, I play on a Nitrado Cluster for the xbox, and have been enjoying the S+ update! It seems great... until you start building and realize the new structures don't even snap properly! Great job beta testers... great job... beta... testing...?

Anyway, after reading the latest, and a few other recent patch notes considereding creatures; I've noticed that the super cool and useful Managarmr was once again heavily nerfed... Why? We have had people come to our cluster from official pvp, and never once complained or bragged about how good the Managarmr was. So why the nerf? I'm genuinely asking, and if anyone knows why, I'd love to know. Now, the sad part of it is though, it appears the Mana has been rendered completely useless, and I have seen a lot of people calling them "decoration tames" since the nerf and release of Homestead. It hurts seeing creatures you've bred and sold off to players being killed, breeding lines going to waste, mutations that are just going to sit and starve, because the Managarmr was once again nerfed.

 

When Wildcard nerfed their stamina consumption upon air dodges and boosts, players hated it but seemed to have let it slide. Now, players on my cluster are killing them off, like they did the velos when they were nerfed, if not kept as turret support to land flyers. Which, for the velos, seems to be the ONLY good thing about them. However, the Manas stamina and damage nerfs are just too much. They already don't do anything for melee damage overall, but not being able to boost very far due to low stamina and now not being able to kill much of anything really makes this Moon Hound seem like a big ol' sitting duck. They're made to boost and jump around, its how they attack creatures in the wild, so why nerf their stamina in the first place??? Now, they're not even good support creatures!

 

Such a beautiful creature... wasted. I would love to see their overall melee buffed since their breath was heavily nerfed, and their stamina after tame either increased, or no longer consumes so much upon boosting and air dodging. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I also heard a few things I'd like confirmation on.

I heard Griffins, Drakes, and Wyverns are all going to be made breedable.

Also heard Wyverns are supposed to be getting Tek/Regular saddles.

And I heard the Direwolves were getting some sort of saddle as well.

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Going to say a few things:

48 minutes ago, YourFavoriteOni said:

What a sad, sad day...

So, I play on a Nitrado Cluster for the xbox, and have been enjoying the S+ update! It seems great... until you start building and realize the new structures don't even snap properly! Great job beta testers... great job... beta... testing...?

Just because Wildcard made the beta testing for the major patch doesn't mean the end result will be flawless. There will always be holes that didn't get patched up properly, especially since most of their releases always have a giant hole that "needs time to patch up".

48 minutes ago, YourFavoriteOni said:

Anyway, after reading the latest, and a few other recent patch notes considereding creatures; I've noticed that the super cool and useful Managarmr was once again heavily nerfed... Why? We have had people come to our cluster from official pvp, and never once complained or bragged about how good the Managarmr was. So why the nerf? I'm genuinely asking, and if anyone knows why, I'd love to know. Now, the sad part of it is though, it appears the Mana has been rendered completely useless, and I have seen a lot of people calling them "decoration tames" since the nerf and release of Homestead. It hurts seeing creatures you've bred and sold off to players being killed, breeding lines going to waste, mutations that are just going to sit and starve, because the Managarmr was once again nerfed.

 

When Wildcard nerfed their stamina consumption upon air dodges and boosts, players hated it but seemed to have let it slide. Now, players on my cluster are killing them off, like they did the velos when they were nerfed, if not kept as turret support to land flyers. Which, for the velos, seems to be the ONLY good thing about them. However, the Manas stamina and damage nerfs are just too much. They already don't do anything for melee damage overall, but not being able to boost very far due to low stamina and now not being able to kill much of anything really makes this Moon Hound seem like a big ol' sitting duck. They're made to boost and jump around, its how they attack creatures in the wild, so why nerf their stamina in the first place??? Now, they're not even good support creatures!

 

Such a beautiful creature... wasted. I would love to see their overall melee buffed since their breath was heavily nerfed, and their stamina after tame either increased, or no longer consumes so much upon boosting and air dodging. 

When mana gets nerfed, people complained why the nerf.

When mana gets buffed, people start QQing how OP it is.

The complaints are even more frequent in Reddit and Forums than in game.

Honestly? Mana is broken, Underpowered and Overpowered, especially in PvP. Wildcard has been trying to figure out how to deal with this mess and so far, it always ended up with one side irritated at them for whatever patch they made to it. Honestly, they shouldn't even have introduced it in the first place prior to Extinction release if people are gonna be a douche about it.

48 minutes ago, YourFavoriteOni said:

Oh, I also heard a few things I'd like confirmation on.

I heard Griffins, Drakes, and Wyverns are all going to be made breedable.

Also heard Wyverns are supposed to be getting Tek/Regular saddles.

And I heard the Direwolves were getting some sort of saddle as well.

Take rumors with a grain of salt, thats what I am gonna say:

  • Griffins are breedable in Mobile edition (with a twist), but aren't breedable in other platform. Drakes and Wyverns, unless they announced it, will never be breedable, even if they have the Mating option.
  • There is a supposed Tek Saddle for Wyverns in the Dev Kit, but they aren't available in game. Items don't even exist either.
  • This was a long term wait, but there hasn't been any news about this for a very long time.
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The mana is extremely overpowered in both pve and pvp.  It's pretty much the fastest travel in the game.  Extremely mobile, super high damage, a long duration stun, the ability to ignore armor and hit riders, and moderate range damage to top it off.  It's only weakness was stam regen, and even then there's a little trick to double or triple its stam regen.

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Because anyone whos played this game long enough knows that the mana is so broken it needs deleting,not fixing,deleting.why? because its design was just too toxic for this game and nerfing it will make it not a mana anymore so it should just get deleted.it goes against every dino balance in the game,in fact it goes against every balance in the game!

Kills your shiit outside of turret range? DERP

flies faster than any previous flyer making the flyer nerf pointless? DERP

Kills dinos and players inside TEK shields? DERP

Perma stuns dinos and riders? DERP

Its made ALL flyers pointless?(looking at you wyverns)DERP

It's stronger than a wyvern yet gets a saddle and breeding while wyvern moves slow as hell and is weak as hell with no saddle? DERP

Kills extinction titans like they are nothing? DERP

It gets imprints? DERP

150 dinos in this game and 149 of them worthless.DERP

Its the fastest flyer,land dino and sea dino? DERP

The god dam list is endless and if people think this is balanced and acceptable need to wake bloody up!

i stopped playing a few months after extinction came out so not kept up to date with what nerfs its had but i've read its stil lbroken as F.

 

 

Edited by Ronson12
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5 hours ago, Vaculity said:

Going to say a few things:

Just because Wildcard made the beta testing for the major patch doesn't mean the end result will be flawless. There will always be holes that didn't get patched up properly, especially since most of their releases always have a giant hole that "needs time to patch up".

When mana gets nerfed, people complained why the nerf.

When mana gets buffed, people start QQing how OP it is.

The complaints are even more frequent in Reddit and Forums than in game.

Honestly? Mana is broken, Underpowered and Overpowered, especially in PvP. Wildcard has been trying to figure out how to deal with this mess and so far, it always ended up with one side irritated at them for whatever patch they made to it. Honestly, they shouldn't even have introduced it in the first place prior to Extinction release if people are gonna be a douche about it.

Take rumors with a grain of salt, thats what I am gonna say:

  • Griffins are breedable in Mobile edition (with a twist), but aren't breedable in other platform. Drakes and Wyverns, unless they announced it, will never be breedable, even if they have the Mating option.
  • There is a supposed Tek Saddle for Wyverns in the Dev Kit, but they aren't available in game. Items don't even exist either.
  • This was a long term wait, but there hasn't been any news about this for a very long time.

Very informative! I like your points and can understand a few things a little clearly now! However, I think the Mana should not have had such a huge nerf to their breath. I've been seeing their breath ping for about 2 damage per second (maybe its .5 seconds, but who is counting, right?) and that just seems like too much of a nerf. I can understand it doing that much at a distance, but definitely not up close where the breath should be the strongest.

If they add any new saddles, I hope they have some sort of good function to them, but as you said, I am taking these rumors with the biggest grain of salt. I would just like a bit of confirmation. I've heard about it, even with the Griffin breeding, at some point in the past, but this was addressed recently and I figured, why not make a post?

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2 hours ago, SunnyKim said:

Hoping Dev solve out to balance the managarmr between pve and pvp, I was able to kill a wild giga in a minute but now it take 5min, kinda feel suck actually 

The Mana and the Velo were amazing giga slayers, but now they don't do much by themselves anymore... might need to start taking both a mana and a velo whenever I go giga killing.

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3 hours ago, cocob1 said:

Let me guess you play pve cause if you played pvp youd know why the man needed nerfing

Uh, no. Great assumption, but still, no. I play on a pvpve cluster and chose the pve route in order to breed and provide powerful tames for the pvp players.

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1 hour ago, FenTheReaper said:

The mana is extremely overpowered in both pve and pvp.  It's pretty much the fastest travel in the game.  Extremely mobile, super high damage, a long duration stun, the ability to ignore armor and hit riders, and moderate range damage to top it off.  It's only weakness was stam regen, and even then there's a little trick to double or triple its stam regen.

Oh? Whats this trick??? When they nerfed the Mana's stam I was absolutely livid.

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8 minutes ago, YourFavoriteOni said:

The Mana and the Velo were amazing giga slayers, but now they don't do much by themselves anymore... might need to start taking both a mana and a velo whenever I go giga killing.

Just grab a lightning wyvern and do it without taking damage.

Also I'm not revealing my trick because I don't want to have to wait 30 seconds for my mana's stam to regen when its fixed.

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58 minutes ago, Ronson12 said:

Because anyone whos played this game long enough knows that the mana is so broken it needs deleting,not fixing,deleting.why? because its design was just too toxic for this game and nerfing it will make it not a mana anymore so it should just get deleted.it goes against every dino balance in the game,in fact it goes against every balance in the game!

Kills your shiit outside of turret range? DERP

flies faster than any previous flyer making the flyer nerf pointless? DERP

Kills dinos and players inside TEK shields? DERP

Perma stuns dinos and riders? DERP

Its made ALL flyers pointless?(looking at you wyverns)DERP

It's stronger than a wyvern yet gets a saddle and breeding while wyvern moves slow as hell and is weak as hell with no saddle? DERP

Kills extinction titans like they are nothing? DERP

It gets imprints? DERP

150 dinos in this game and 149 of them worthless.DERP

Its the fastest flyer,land dino and sea dino? DERP

The god dam list is endless and if people think this is balanced and acceptable need to wake bloody up!

i stopped playing a few months after extinction came out so not kept up to date with what nerfs its had but i've read its stil lbroken as F.

 

 

Nooo... a lot of your points aren't up to date now. Let me fill you in.

 

With its heavy stamina nerf, on official, a mana can jump/boost at most 3 times before needing to land and wait a decent period for its stamina to even begin recovering.

Its stamina recovery, due to the nerf, is also extremely slow.

I play on a boosted cluster, so our tames reach a max level of 300, but even then a 300 perfect tame Mana only gets about 1200 stamina and can boost a total of 4 times before needing to land.

It's damage nerfs make it so it only does around 58-72 damage per strike, and with the recent breath nerf, about 2-4 damage per second (possibly .5 seconds but whatever).

It may be able to breed and have imprints, but they added a "training" system, and without training the Mana will jump away from its owner if the owner is attacked, and will jump in awkward directions if 2 players are riding it at the same time.

Honestly, I think the Rock Drake may have it beat in land speed, as the Drake can crawl over rough land.

As for it killing extinction creatures faster (not just the titans) is due to their x2 damage buff against corrupted creatures. The Enforcer gets a x4 damage buff I believe.

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1 minute ago, FenTheReaper said:

Just grab a lightning wyvern and do it without taking damage.

Also I'm not revealing my trick because I don't want to have to wait 30 seconds for my mana's stam to regen when its fixed.

I know about jumping off the tames to make their stam regen, also feeding it stim berries (at least that used to work for a while, not sure if it still does anymore) But if theres any other tricks I'll just look them up on youtube later.

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10 hours ago, YourFavoriteOni said:

Nooo... a lot of your points aren't up to date now. Let me fill you in.

 

With its heavy stamina nerf, on official, a mana can jump/boost at most 3 times before needing to land and wait a decent period for its stamina to even begin recovering.

Its stamina recovery, due to the nerf, is also extremely slow.

I play on a boosted cluster, so our tames reach a max level of 300, but even then a 300 perfect tame Mana only gets about 1200 stamina and can boost a total of 4 times before needing to land.

It's damage nerfs make it so it only does around 58-72 damage per strike, and with the recent breath nerf, about 2-4 damage per second (possibly .5 seconds but whatever).

It may be able to breed and have imprints, but they added a "training" system, and without training the Mana will jump away from its owner if the owner is attacked, and will jump in awkward directions if 2 players are riding it at the same time.

Honestly, I think the Rock Drake may have it beat in land speed, as the Drake can crawl over rough land.

As for it killing extinction creatures faster (not just the titans) is due to their x2 damage buff against corrupted creatures. The Enforcer gets a x4 damage buff I believe.

How on Earth do you have a level 300+ mana with 1200 stamina ? On official level 250 ish manas are running around with 5K stam.

do you like not level stats on your dino ?

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2 hours ago, covenantgrunt said:

How on Earth do you have a level 300+ mana with 1200 stamina ? On official level 250 ish manas are running around with 5K stam.

do you like not level stats on your dino ?

I do, but I've had tamed several level 300 Manas and they all came out with around 1500 stam total. So that... kinda confuses me.

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3 hours ago, MarkMartin said:

You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about, and you've probably NEVER played pvp

And if you need manas to be good at pve, then you are just mentally ill. 

I started playing this game back when it was just The Island, on pvp. I have played pvp entirely up to where I am now on a pvpve cluster, so don't make an ass of yourself making idiotic assumptions.

 

I need manas for travel and to kill things such as Gigas, Titans, and hordes of corrupted.

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From a PvP standpoint, manas have been overpowered. However, instead of nerfing them other counters should have been introduced. Not saying some nerfs are warranted but not to the level they have been. Are they strong? Yes they are and they were meant to be. The devs have said that short of the titans they were Extinction's end level tames. What is the point of having an end level tame that constantly gets bopped on the nose with the nerf bat until they're basically a meme of their former glory. So I think that some nerfs are warranted but would have preferred new counters being introduced (maybe through a TLC pass of other dinos?) than all the nerfs they have received.

From a PvE perspective, leave them as they were. Here's the thing about PvE, once you get established there really isn't any threat to you as a player. Having a a really strong dino like the mana is just fun. And for PvE players, fun is the name of the game. We build, breed, and enjoy our communities. We aren't as hard core as the PvPers and we don't want that type of experience (and the anxiety that comes with it). Unlike in PvP, a player having a mana in PvE doesn't really affect anyone else's game play in a meaningfully negative way as where in PvP that's certainly not the case. So for PvE I'd say let us have our overpowered wolf serpent thingy. Not because we need it but because it's fun to have and play with.

With that being said though, we run into a couple of issues. 1. I'm not sure Wildcard can separate how manas operate in PvP versus PvE. Or if they can they won't due to the work involved. Which means if they are too overpowered in PvP then nerfs are incoming and PvE players just get stuck with those nerfs. Problem #2 is the counters that could be introduced instead of nerfs. Again this comes down to effort of Wildcard's part to make effective counters to the mana to keep them just as powerful but not as effective due to other dinos negating their abilities some what. And again, Wildcard either doesn't know what counters they could implement to do this, or the amount of work required isn't worth it to them.

I've never been a proponent of nerfing things. I've always been of the mindset that nerfing is just lazy when there are other options available in the form of buffing something else or providing counters to bring better balance. But time is finite and sadly Wildcard has to allocate it on many different parts of this game. So while I'm not a fan of the mana nerfs I'm honestly not surprised that they keep happening.

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2 hours ago, ErnestTheGamer said:

Lol I like my arg and just make 1360 Stam recipe with 5 kibble and I can fly all day up above everyone and just watch everyone run around until a osd or 50k node spawns then fly down and take it :)

Good luck to you when you chase by corrupted wyvern ??

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22 hours ago, YourFavoriteOni said:

Anyway, after reading the latest, and a few other recent patch notes considereding creatures; I've noticed that the super cool and useful Managarmr was once again heavily nerfed... Why?

If you don't already know you will never accept why.

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